-- Start log: Wednesday, August 4, 2004 9:02:43 pm ASI Meeting Server time-- 

Severy switches places with Severy-1
MikeD-1 says, "some things never change" Scottyg says, "Hi everyone!"
MikeD-1 says, "there's the severy dance" Greg-2 says, "It looks like
Randall is dancing with himself. :)" Severy-1 grins.
Greg-2 says, "LOL Great minds!"
Nancy-1 says, "Hi Scotty!"
Severy-1 says, "I always have to start off meetings with a little dance
:-)" Scottyg says, "My participation tonight may be somewhat limited. I had
to have a tooth pulled today and I'm not in great shape." MikeD-1 says,
"you're supposed to dance when they're over Randall" Nancy-1 says, "Ouch!
Feel better, Scotty! " Greg-2 says, "I know what that's like, Scotty! You
probably remember me flyin' high on unfamiliar pharmaceuticals. :)" Nancy-1
says, "I know I remember it! LOL" Greg-2 says, "Should we do the Moon
Society Board meeting first to take care of formalities?" MikeD-1 says, "i
guess so"
Greg-2 says, "Randall is chairman of the board, so, Randall, I suppose you
should call the meeting to order and take the role of the old board."
Severy-1 says, "Sounds good to me"
Greg-2 says, "We announced this meeting already so we don't even have to do
the "wavie notice" gig tonight. :)" Scottyg says, "Yeah, I had a tooth
break in half. It was VERY hard to get it out. The entire top fractured and
they had to dig the roots out one-by-one." A loud gong signals the start of
the Moon Society Board of Directors Meeting Greg-2 says, "Ick!"
Severy-1 says, "Ouch!"
Nancy-1 says, "Ouch!!!"
MikeD-1 doesn't want to think about dentists Severy-1 says, "Ok, let's get
this board meeting on the road" Severy-1 says, "As Greg mentioned, we don't
need to waive notice this time around" Severy-1 says, "All board members
present please say 'present'" john-r says, "we have 5 old bd members and 2
of 4 old officers- if i counted correct, do we have a quorm?" Severy-1
says, "Present"
Greg-2 says, "Present."
john-r says, "present"
Michael says, "yep"
MikeD-1 says, "Randall is that a roll call of present or new board
members?" Severy-1 says, "Present board members, Michael" dcarson-1 says,
"present"
Greg-2 says, "Still missing Peter and Arthur?" Severy-1 says, "Yup"
Greg-2 says, "Oh, somebody keep an eye out for Steve Jackson." MikeD-1 wont
be surprised if Arthur doesn't show Severy-1 says, "And Ian?"
Greg-2 says, "OH, and Ian."
MikeD-1 says, "Ian isn't on the board"
Greg-2 says, "Erm... that's right."
Severy-1 says, "I've lost track :-("
MikeD-1 says, "Ian escaped last time"
Severy-1 says, "That's right"
Greg-2 says, "Last year it ended in a coin-toss between Dana and Ian, and
Dana won the toss." Severy-1 says, "So we have seven directors, correct?"
john-r says, "yes"
dcarson-1 says, "did someone email hime Steve jackson when the meeting was"
john-r says, "and 5 are prsent"
Severy-1 says, "Michael, was that "Yep" your equivalent of "present"?"
Greg-2 says, "Dana, yes, I did."
dcarson-1 says, "ok"
Greg-2 says, "Steve said he would try to be here." DaveW arrives.
Greg-2 says, "I told him how to get to this room, but it would be his first
foray here. He logged on to the MOO briefly a while ago." dcarson-1 says,
"if not could open a window to the pyramoo and see if he is there" john-r
says, "thers the VP"
Greg-2 says, "Wouldn't hurt, Dana!"
DaveW says, "hi all"
john-r says, "Anyone Know if Amy is coming?" john-r says, "Hi Dave"
Greg-2 says, "I expect that Amy will be here unless the baby is of a
different opinion." garygray says, "Hi' Dave!"
Greg-2 says, "But the probability of babyhood is very high." Severy-1 says,
"Ok, what business needs to come before the board tonight?" MikeD-1 says,
"Amy was on earlier"
Michael says, "mostly just appoving the election results, right?" Greg-2
says, "I was stalling for Peter to arrive, but..." john-r says, "Michael,
as far as i know" Greg-2 says, "I move that the Board of Directors of the
Moon Society accept the report of the elections committee and officially
recognize the election of Peter Kokh as President and Gary Gray as
Secretary; and that we recognize Gregory Bennett, Mike Delaney, Steve
Jackson, and Michael Mealling as Directors of the Moon Society; and that
these new officers and directors will begin a term beginning immediately
with the passage of this motion and ending in two years or until they are
relieved by their successors." dcarson-1 says, "second"
MikeD-1 says, "here comes Amy"
Michael says, "second"
With a sparkle of transporter light, saavik appears saavik waves at Greg-2,
Nancy-1, MikeD-1, john-r, dcarson-1, garygray, Michael, Scottyg, Severy-1,
and DaveW. garygray says, "Yea!"
Severy-1 says, "Welcome, Amy!"
Nancy-1 says, "Hi Amy!"
Greg-2 says, "Evening, Amy! I just made the motion that I promised." saavik
says, "Hi - I totally forgot it was 9pm, sorry. but you all probably
thought I was off having the baby anyway :-)" saavik says, "(I wish)"
Severy-1 says, "All in favor?"
dcarson-1 says, "aye"
Michael says, "aye"
Severy-1 says, "Aye"
saavik says, "quick, what is the motion?" Greg-2 says, "Aye"
saavik says, "read current on recorder" Severy-1 says, "Try 'play current
on recorder' :-)" john-r says, "Aye"
MikeD-1 says, "the motion is out with the old in with the new" saavik says,
"aye!"
dcarson-1 says, "friend at work left on leave the day before she was due,
had the baby two weeks later" Greg-2 says, "Amy, it's a board meeting thing
so you don't have to vote on this one." saavik says, "yeah, that's why I
haven't left work yet Dana :-)" Greg-2 says, "I see 5 votes aye, which is
all the board members present." MikeD-1 says, "if you lived over here you'd
have been on leave for the past 5-6 weeks" Severy-1 says, "Thwap!"
Greg-2 says, "Ouch!"
Severy-1 <- That was the gavel
Severy-1 says, "The motion passes!"
Greg-2 says, "I shouldn't have been using the striker plate as a plate for
my bagel." Greg-2 says, "Oh goody!"
Severy-1 says, "Ooh, messy! :-)"
MikeD-1 says, "bagel go squish?"
Michael says, "the gavel makes a "thwap" noise? kind of whimpy for a gavel"
MikeD-1 says, "not when it's hitting a bagel" Severy-1 says, "It's all we
could afford, Michael :-(" Greg-2 says, "So, I move that we adjourn the
meeting of the outgoing board of directors and convene a meeting of the
newly elected board of directors for the purpose of appointing a chairman.
:)" john-r says, "now 6 of the new board are prsent, do we what to vote on
the chairman of the board?" john-r says, "oops"
Severy-1 says, "We need a second...."
Greg-2 says, "Great minds, John!"
Michael says, "second"
Severy-1 says, "All in favor?"
Greg-2 says, "aye"
Severy-1 says, "Aye"
MikeD-1 says, "aye"
Michael says, "aye"
MikeD-1 says, "here comes Steve"
Greg-2 says, "Yay!"
dcarson-1 says, "aye"
john-r says, "Aye"
SJ has arrived.
Severy-1 says, "Thwap!"
Michael says, "sound like a bunch of damn pirates" SJ says, "Aha!"
Severy-1 says, "The motion passes, this meeting is adjourned!" Severy-1
says, "Welcome aboard, Steve!" Nancy-1 says, "Welcome, Steve!"
SJ says, "Apologies for lateness. Freeway . . . Oh, good, I can go now!"
Severy-1 grins.
Greg-2 says, "Welcome, Steve! Your timing could not have been more
perfect!" Severy-1 says, "Different meeting :-)"
saavik says, "nope, that was the old board that adjourned :-)" john-r says,
"Nope SJ, we are between meetings :)" john-r says, "Welcome Steve"
Greg-2 says, "We just convened a meeting of the old board to install the
new board, and now it's the new board meeting! :)" MikeD-1 says, "best way
to get to us in @join john-r" SJ whews. Being late, bad way to start . . .
dcarson-1 says, "the baord is dead long live the new baord" MikeD-1 says,
"s/in/is"
Greg-2 says, "LOL"
Severy-1 says, "Ok, do we need to waive notice for the new board?" Greg-2
says, "Everybody, this is Steve Jackson, our newest board member." SJ waves
generally.
dcarson-1 says, "actually this one had notice" garygray says, "Hi Steve!"
Severy-1 says, "Did the notice include both boards?" dcarson-1 says,
"waives notice anyway"
Michael says, "hi Steve! nice to finally put a text stream with a name!"
MikeD-1 waives notice
Greg-2 says, "Yeah, I'll waive notice of the new board meeting, just in
case we need to do that. :)" john-r waves Notice
Severy-1 waives notice
Michael waves notice
john-r says, "waives that is"
A loud reverberating gong signals the start of the NEW Moon Society Board
of Directors Meeting Michael says, "sigh..... silly wizards" Greg-2 says,
"(Steve, we follow Robert's Rules, but it's more like Roberts on Really
Good Drugs Rules.)" john-r says, "my poor ears.."
Severy-1 says, "I hereby call to order the Moon Society Board of Directors
Meeting" MikeD-1 says, "gee, I can add two new phrases to my vocabulary,
'Aye' and 'Waives Notice'" Severy-1 says, "Michael, when you've got the
toys, you might as well use 'em :-)" Greg-2 says, "I move that the Board of
Directors of the Moon Society appoint Randall Severy as its chairman, to
serve until relieved by his successor." SJ seconds.
MikeD-1 says, "I second that"
Severy-1 says, "All in favor?"
Greg-2 says, "aye"
MikeD-1 says, "aye"
garygray says, "Aye!"
john-r says, "Aye"
Michael says, "aye"
SJ says, "Aye."
Severy-1 says, "Aye"
dcarson-1 says, "aye"
Severy-1 says, "The motion passes!"
Greg-2 says, "Hooray! That takes care of those formalities! :)" MikeD-1
says, "as if it woulnd't"
Severy-1 says, "Is there any other business to come before the board
tonight?" Greg-2 says, "None here."
MikeD-1 says, "no"
Michael says, "I think Peter had something...." dcarson-1 says, "since its
still Randall we don't even need to fit new shackles" The chair will
entertain a motion to adjourn Greg-2 says, "So moved"
MikeD-1 says, "just polish the old ones" SJ says, "Will we adjourn from
formal business and then go to general nattering?" Severy-1 says, "That's
the plan, Steve" Michael says, "oh wait.... nevermind.... he said that was
for the 8/18 meeting" garygray says, "Is anything happening with the NSS
relationship?!" Severy-1 says, "We're not quite out of the Board meeting
yet, Gary" Greg-2 says, "Steve, yes. We just had to take care of the
legalities before getting back to the regularly scheduled Leadership
Council meeting." Severy-1 says, "Still need a second..." MikeD-1 seconds
john-r says, "I second"
Severy-1 says, "All in favor?"
Greg-2 says, "Speaking of which, Steve, are you getting the Moon Society
Leaders list messages now?" SJ says, "Aye."
MikeD-1 says, "aye"
john-r says, "aye"
Greg-2 says, "aye"
Severy-1 says, "Aye"
Michael says, "aye"
Severy-1 says, "Splat!"
dcarson-1 says, "aye"
MikeD-1 groans.
Severy-1 says, "Ok, this board meeting is officially adjourned!" Greg-2
says, "There goes my bagel!"
john-r says, "what?"
Severy-1 says, "Yup, all over the walls, Greg!" dcarson-1 says, "just added
him to the board team" Greg-2 wipes cream cheese off his shirt. MikeD-1
says, "cream cheese and kiwi all over you" SJ says, "Greg, I'm not sure I
have seen anything yet I could identify as that . . . ok, sounds like that
would be because I'm only now on the lsit." saavik says, "so, am I am
ex-officer now?" Greg-2 says, "Steve, it would have come from
leaders@moonsociety.org. Peter Kokhn, the newly elected president, sent a
lengthy note about his plans for his shift in office." MikeD-1 says, "yes
amy"
Michael says, "someone should forward Peter's email to steve...." MikeD-1
says, "Amy, when's little A due?" saavik says, "tomorrow Mike"
SJ says, "Yes, please do. I got a short personal note from him which I just
now answered." saavik says, "and do I stay on the leaders list and all? "
Greg-2 says, "Done."
MikeD-1 says, "ooh, best of luck for an ontime delivery" Severy-1 formally
thanks Amy for her long and dedicated service to the Moon Society saavik
says, "thank you :-)"
dcarson-1 says, "forwarded"
Greg-2 says, "That is, I just forwarded Peter's note to Steve." Michael
says, "yes!"
saavik says, "and yeah, he has about 24 hours (27 I guess) to be ontime!"
Greg-2 says, "Redirected, actually, so it might show up as from
leaders@moonsociety.org." john-r also -
Michael says, "many thanks for all the outgoing.... sympathies to all of
the incoming...." Severy-1 chuckles.
john-r also - formally thanks Amy for her long and dedicated service to the
Moon Society Michael says, "committment proceedings for those that decided
to re-up....." Greg-2 says, "And best wishes for the honored estate of
motherhood, too!" MikeD-1 formally informs Amy that she wont escape that
easily saavik grins.
MikeD-1 says, "when are you moving?"
Severy-1 says, "Too late, Michael!"
saavik says, "sep 1"
john-r says, "Dana Randall and MikeD - see
http://www.moonsociety.org/preview/Xb68bB.php3 is it ok to publish??- the
revised officers page" MikeD-1 says, "gosh, that's going to be interesting"
Michael says, "looks good to me...."
Nancy-1 says, "Gosh, Amy! Lots of changes in your life. " MikeD-1 says,
"and me"
Severy-1 says, "Looks good to me, John" Michael says, "sneak preview:
masten-space.com/index2.php (yea, I know, some have seen it already. Its
still cool....)" MikeD-1 says, "Amy, myself and my wife moved only about a
month after one of our kids was born, it wasn't too bad, but then we only
moved 4 miles" Greg-2 says, "Has anyone heard from Peter?" dcarson-1 says,
"looks fine to me John" john-r says, "Dana or Mike see all the offsisers
e-mails at the bottom, someone needs to redirect the mail to info - OK??"
Greg-2 says, "He sent out an email just a few minutes ago, so he's on line
somewhere." MikeD-1 says, "oh, thanks for reminding me John" MikeD-1 says,
"i need to change 2 of them" Greg-2 says, "Hmm... we can't effectively
discuss Peter's ideas without Peter, but we could do a membership committee
report." garygray says, "Peter probably doesn't realizes what time it is>!"
Greg-2 says, "(In other words, stall for time.)" SJ grins. He sent me a
meeting reminder . . . Greg-2 says, "Maybe Milwaukee slipped into the
Mountain Time Zone." john-r says, "I think he may be on an elected type
High :)" Greg-2 says, "Hmm... should we call him? Peter is historically
been very punctual." john-r steps away for a min or 2
MikeD-1 says, "or maybe he doesn't realize it's wednesday" saavik says,
"someone ought to call him" john-r says, "i would call, but on a modem
connect" Greg-2 says, "Oh, right; I think Peter uses a modem, too." MikeD-1
says, "gary what's your email address so i can redirect
secretary@moonsociety.org to it?" Michael says, "I can give you guys a
review of the RTTM conference...." Nancy-1 says, "Missy processed one new
member this week. Well, now what are you going to do to stall for time? :)"
Michael says, "have we had any new memberships since then?" garygray says,
" ggrey2@juno.com!"
Michael says, "it was way cool to have meet Gary there....." saavik says,
"switching machines - brb" saavik has disconnected.
garygray says, "Is anyone going to the Mars Convention later this month?!"
Michael says, "the cool thing was we were prominantly placed in all of the
media and didn't cost us anything other than selling the thing and the use
of our name...." dcarson-1 says, "I think Peter was planning on going"
Greg-2 says, "Just tried to call Peter at 414/342-0705 and got an answering
system." saavik has connected.
Greg-2 says, "Well... there's one of Peter's items we might discuss: The
Executive Committee idea." Greg-2 says, "That was his item 3."
Severy-1 says, "Peter is going to the Mars Convention. I was hoping to go,
but there have been too many conventions recently" john-r says, "back"
Michael says, "anyoen going to the SFF convention?" Severy-1 says, "And I
need to save if I have any hope of affording another trip to Mojave for the
X-Prize flight" Greg-2 says, "I think it's a good idea to empower a little
group to act when they need to act, but I wouldn't want to make it so broad
that it disenfranchises the elected board." MikeD-1 says, "Dave, does
davew@intrex.net still work?" DaveW says, "yes"
MikeD-1 says, "Scotty, is scottygamm@dfwair.net still valid?" SJ is trying
to decide whether to really go to Worldcon. My enthusiasm is waning for
some reason . . . too much recent travel, I guess. garygray says, "My
understanding of Peter's Exe Committee is to have a small group be able to
make decisons at infrequent times. But you need to confirm that with
Peter.!" Scottyg says, "Mike, yes."
Nancy-1 says, "Mike, Scotty's not feeling well, but I can tell you that the
address you have for Scotty is still valid." Nancy-1 says, "Opps! Sorry,
Scotty!"
dcarson-1 says, "if you go Steve I'll treat you to dinner one night"
MikeD-1 says, "I would have just left it until another time if Scotty
hadn't answered" MikeD-1 says, "there doesn't seem to be a
president@moonsociety.org pointer at all" Greg-2 says, "Where the heck *is*
Worldcon this year? I've lost track?" SJ says, "Boston."
Greg-2 says, "I shudder to think what the at-the-door price might be."
saavik wants to see people at worldcon now that she is near it but will be
insanely busy being a new mom and moving that weekend, I think dcarson-1
says, "$200"
Greg-2 says, "Not too horrible."
dcarson-1 says, "$50 - $80 a day depend on what day" MikeD-1 says, "John,
do you feel up to testing the email links on
http://www.moonsociety.org/preview/Xb68bB.php3 now?" john-r says, "Sure
Mike"
john-r says, "for a zillion somethings" SJ may have a membership or two to
dispose of, though . . . MikeD-1 says, "i just tested the first one" john-r
says, "ok"
MikeD-1 says, "number 2 and number 4 are unchanged so should still be
working" dcarson-1 reads the meeting agenda
MikeD-1 says, "so just send one to secretary@moonsociety.org" dcarson-1
says, "any progress on the NS relationship?" dcarson-1 says, "NSS"
SJ says, "I'm in Houston, and my hostess is asking me "Meeting over yet?
Can we go eat?" So - AHA, that's the issue I wanted to ask about. NSS."
MikeD-1 says, "Gary, I hope you realize that the only way out of the
secretarys job in 2 years time is to be expecting" SJ has personal
misgivings about the current incarnation of the NSS. Reminds me a lot of
NASA . . . careless and complacent. BUT, nevertheless, it seems to me that
any strategic alliance is better than our declining to cooperate. Severy-1
says, "Peter wants to hold off on any movement with the NSS relationship
until the current NSS governance storm subsides" garygray says, "You might
be surprised, Mike!" john-r says, "ok Mike, tests are done"
Michael doesn't know about the rest of NSS, but George seems like a good
guy SJ hadn't heard about the governance storm. Should I be cheering for a
group of plucky rebels, or just trying not to think about it? MikeD-1 says,
"Gary you should have an email form JohnR" Greg-2 says, "My thinking is
that it doesn't hurt to continue to talk to the NSS about a relatinship,
and keep that fire warm." Greg-2 says, "Nothing is official until somebody
signs something." dcarson-1 says, "heres Peter"
Severy-1 says, "I agree, Greg"
kokhmmm has arrived.
john-r says, "Hi Peter"
Greg-2 says, "Hail to the Chief"
kokhmmm says, "Hi, having bad connection problems!" Nancy-1 says, "Hi
Peter!"
Severy-1 says, "I didn't see George as planned last weekend, so I didn't
review the document with him, but I plan to shortly" garygray says, "Got
your E-mail, John!" Michael says, "wow..... full house tonight" john-r
says, "TY Gary"
Severy-1 says, "Welcome, welcome, Peter!" kokhmmm says, "Hi Steve"
Greg-2 says, "What do you think, Randall? Has everybody else seen it?"
Greg-2 says, "Erm... where did I put that thing?" Severy-1 says, "Sounded
good to me, Greg! I don't think others have seen it yet" SJ says, "Evening,
Peter. "
kokhmmm says, "What do I do to catch up?" Greg-2 says, "[MEMO] This year's
worldcon: http://www.noreascon.org/" garygray says, "Hi' Peter!"
SJ says, "You caught me going out . . . is there anything I should know
before I go?" SJ says, "The subject of NSS cooperation had just come up."
kokhmmm says, "Sent you email, Steve"
Severy-1 says, "
www.moonsociety.org/private/leaders/nss/nss_sig_proposal_draft.html"
<http://www.moonsociety.org/private/leaders/nss/nss_sig_proposal_draft.html>
Greg-2 says, "
http://www.moonsociety.org/private/leaders/nss/nss_sig_proposal_draft.html"
SJ got the mail, yep!
Greg-2 says, "Oops."
Severy-1 says, "Hah, beat you to it! :-)" Greg-2 says, "Steve: Hooray!"
kokhmmm says, "Given the upheaval at NSS, we'll have to feel our way for
awhile, slowly." Greg-2 says, "Oh! Peter, this is Steve. Steve, this is
Peter." SJ says, "I seem to need a username and password to access that . .
. and it didn't like my MOO pw." Severy-1 says, "It should use your MOO
username and password, Steve" Greg-2 says, "Yeah, that's the same as what
Team Director knows, isn't it?" Severy-1 says, "Err, your original ones,
though, if you renamed yourself in the MOO it won't change the Team
Director entries" SJ says, "Ahh, got it. Username was case sensitive."
Severy-1 says, "Yup"
SJ says, "OK, cool. Reading this should get me largely up to speed . . .
but, Peter, what NSS upheaval? Good upheaval, bad, or we don't know yet?"
MikeD-1 says, "is anyone else having trouble getting to that page?" Greg-2
says, "Everyone on the Leadership Council Team should have access using
your normal Moon Society login." Severy-1 says, "NSS is contemplating its
navel a lot these days" garygray says, "I haven't tried, but I got into
other pages okay!" Severy-1 says, "NSS is in the midst of a major fiscal
crisis, and we are in the midst of all of the expected arguing over what to
do about it" SJ says, "OK, I am advised that I'm leaving *now* . . . I will
leave this window open and read everything else when I return, and mail
questions if need be. Bye, all . . ." Severy-1 says, "And how much the
organizational structure needs to change to solve the crisis" Severy-1
says, "Bye, Steve, and thanks for being here tonight!" Greg-2 says,
"G'night, Steve!"
dcarson-1 says, "gnight"
MikeD-1 says, "g'night Steve"
kokhmmm says, "goodnight Steve."
MikeD-1 says, "Peter, you should have a test email from me" Nancy-1 says,
"Night Steve."
MikeD-1 says, "the email should be addressed to president@moonsociety.org"
Greg-2 says, "Oh goody! Now it's Peter's turn to be spam bait! :)" john-r
says, "Night Steve"
kokhmmm says, "Got the email, Mike. It works! Guess that makes it
official!" MikeD-1 says, "we need to find an effective anti-spambot
strategy" Greg-2 says, "Should we attempt a more complete recap of the
current organizational issues within the NSS?" john-r says, "please do Greg
- on NSS upheavel" dcarson-1 says, "don't se why, what matters is what they
have when it settles" Greg-2 says, "I don't know enough about it to do the
recap myself." Severy-1 says, "I can summarize some of the basic events"
kokhmmm says, "Greg, I think NSS restructuring is out of our hands, though
I have felt free to put in my two cents. We'll have to see what happens,
and then decide how it affects us." Greg-2 says, "Good"
kokhmmm says, "But basically, NSS experiment in democracy could be about to
end, and the question is, if it does, is that a good or bad thing."
Severy-1 says, "At the NSS Board Meeting at the ISDC in Oklahoma City, the
board was presented with the current financial state of the society and the
prognosis for the near future" Severy-1 says, "Needless to say, it was very
bleak" Greg-2 says, "Peter, do you think we could continue talking with
George Whitesides, et al. even while this is going on? Nothing is official
until somebody signs something, so I don't think it would hurt to talk."
kokhmmm says, "Some feel strongly that NSS will cease to exist by years
end, declaring bankruptcy." Severy-1 says, "In the discussion that
followed, one of the common themes raised was that NSS was not being taken
very seriously in the space community and the general public, and much of
the blame fell on the board" Greg-2 says, "In fact, our presence just might
shape their thinking." Severy-1 says, "So a governance committee was
organized to research these issues, primarily through a wide-ranging series
of interviews of the public, industry folks, etc. and report back to the
board with a set of recommendations" kokhmmm says, "So we thought we would
be joining forces with a healthy and vigorous team, and it turns out that
that might not be the case." Severy-1 says, "That process has just
completed, and the set of recommendations were recently presented to the
board" Greg-2 says, "Randall, and that's what touched off the powder keg?"
Severy-1 says, "Some aspects of the proposals were rather drastic,
especially with regards to some entrenched interests within the society"
Greg-2 says, "Yes."
MikeD-1 says, "egotrippers with egg on their proverbial faces?" Severy-1
says, "Peter, I've *seen* NSS' finances, they *are* facing bankruptcy"
Severy-1 says, "I was in that board meeting in Oklahoma City, the entire
day" Greg-2 says, "Is it a forecast of expenses exceeding revenues, or
outstanding debts, that would lead to bankruptcy?" kokhmmm says, "The
recommedations are to cut the board from 32 to 16 (that's okay) but of the
16 only 6 would be elected (not okay) and to get elected you need to be
nominated by the board, or collect signatures from 5% of the members or 500
out of 10,OOO." Severy-1 says, "But with all due respect to certain people
present here, the committee was simply doing what was asked of it by the
board, and the proposals presented were just that, proposals, it's now up
to the board to figure out what to do with it all" Greg-2 says, "Would
reducing the size of the board save money?" Severy-1 says, "Expenses have
been exceeding revenues for a while within NSS, going back several years"
kokhmmm says, "In the history of nominations by petition, only Bob Zubrin
would have succeeded in getting over this hurdle. So we end up with a
self-perpetuating board." MikeD-1 says, "what about their offices, will
they have to cutback there?" Severy-1 says, "Peter, that 5% requirement is
dead as a doornail" Severy-1 says, "NSS already cut back drastically on
their offices six months ago, moving out of the Pennsylvania Avenue
location" kokhmmm says, "Glad to hear that, Randall" Greg-2 says, "That's
what I would expect to happen, Randall. The board has to make the tough
decisions to get NSS back on a good financial track." Severy-1 says,
"Exactly"
Greg-2 says, "I think our little pipsqueak effort could go a long way to
renewing the interest of the membership in the NSS." MikeD-1 says, "how are
they handling membership services these days?" Severy-1 says, "Membership
services are contracted out to an association management company" kokhmmm
says, "Ad Astra hogs most of the budget. NSS has to decide if it is a Space
Advocacy Society or a publishing house. If its members are truly members or
just subscribers." Greg-2 says, "It's not unusual for an organization like
us to have publications be its major budget item." Severy-1 says,
"Democracy is a wonderful idea, but the reality is that in an organization
like NSS, it ends up being a popularity contest, and the people being
elected are often not the right people for the job" Severy-1 says, "Ad
Astra is no longer most of the NSS budget, it has been cut *way* back
recently" Severy-1 says, "The size of the board has been an issue ever
since the merger, so reducing the size has been proposed for years, but
again you run into entrenched resistence" kokhmmm says, "Anyway, things are
out of our hands. We have to wait until the dust settles and then decide if
it is still in our best interests to continue. It may well be. But in this
respect, I'm from Missouri." MikeD-1 says, "I've actualy been asked to be
their Irish contact, I'm not even a member" Greg-2 says, "Peter, do we have
to wait to talk to them? Or just make sure we don't sign anything until we
know what organization we are dealing with?" Greg-2 says, "I'd hate to see
the NSS fold just when it seems to be on the cusp of becoming a
membership-oriented organizaiton that looks beyond politics." saavik says,
"bedtime for the pregnant lady" saavik says, "night all"
Greg-2 says, "G'night, Amy! G'night, Amy Jr.!" Nancy-1 says, "Night, Amy!"
saavik grins.
saavik says, "night"
MikeD-1 says, "g'night Amy, and best of luck" saavik has disconnected.
garygray says, "Goodnight, Amy! "
kokhmmm says, "Probably the latter. Talk, but don't sign. We may not still
be talking to someone with authority." Greg-2 says, "Good point, Peter."
kokhmmm says, "Goodnight Amy and thanks fro your years of service!"
dcarson-1 says, "gnight Amy"
dcarson-1 says, "hatch soon"
MikeD-1 says, "she's been gone for almost a minute :)" john-r says, "my 2
and a half cents is to continue to talk - accepting the general fact it may
or may not make ot to the top of the hea[ - BUT with what Mike Said - if we
are connected, then some of us die-hards could be local contats, and make a
strong smoke screen -- if not real effort to show a prsense wher there may
be no prsense" john-r says, "Nite Amy"
Greg-2 says, "I didn't understand that, John." john-r says, "ok, another
way.. :)"
MikeD-1 says, "John, *you* or _I_ don't want to take on a challenge like
that, we'd be overloaded in about 2 weeks" MikeD-1 says, "I was approached,
I declined" Severy-1 says, "The Moon Society will not have any influence,
regardless of our relationship with NSS, on the outcome of the current
governance battles" Greg-2 says, "Yeah. We need to be careful not to
promise more than we can deliver. That's a lesson painfully learned."
john-r says, "Mike has been asked to be a contact , and is not even a nss
member--- IF we are an official SIG(or other term) then we as moon society
members can be local contacts- understood so far??" john-r says, "local
contas for moon soc and NSS" john-r says, "contacts"
MikeD-1 says, "that could seriously dilute our audience" Greg-2 says,
"John, so far, I"m with ya." MikeD-1 says, "I was sort of asked thru my
contact with Dale" Greg-2 says, "Sure. That's not a surprise." The
housekeeper arrives to cart saavik off to bed. MikeD-1 says, "there Dublin
contact went AWOL" kokhmmm says, "John, NSS would not necessaryily
incorporate/fold our chapter/outpost/local contact list into their own."
Michael says, "I'm calling it a night guys..... was up unti 3:30 last
night...." Michael says, "cya"
Severy-1 says, "Good night, Michael!"
Greg-2 says, "I really would have expected Dale Amon to be the official
Irish contact guy." john-r says, "On the one hand - each space group wnats
to be all powerfull - (maybe) and what has to be questioned - if one falls,
then it hurts us all" john-r says, "Nite Michael"
kokhmmm says, "Michael, sorry I missed you in Atlanta!" dcarson-1 says,
"gnight"
Nancy-1 says, "Night, Michael."
garygray says, "Good night, Michael!"
MikeD-1 says, "Dale's not in Ireland, he's in the United kingdom" Greg-2
says, "John, that's one of the reasons I'd be very unhappy if NSS
cratered." john-r says, "Understood Peter- Thats something to consider-"
Greg-2 says, "Oh! Dale is Up North. Oops." kokhmmm says, "Dale is back in
Northern Ireland? since when? He was in Cork." MikeD-1 says, "lol, cork
didnt work out, he went back north about 6 months later" Severy-1 says, "I
personally don't think NSS is going to crater, there are too many people
with too much invested to let that happen. But as they say, desparate times
call for desparate measures, so not everyone is going to be happy with the
way NSS ends up" Greg-2 says, "Yeah, Village Networking Limited is
essentially moribund." kokhmmm says, "Agree with Randall that NSS will pull
thru somehow." Severy-1 says, "Has been for quite a while now" Greg-2 says,
"Randall, yeah. Besides, an organization with 16,000 dues-paying members
has no business going out of business. That's just plain silly." john-r
says, "So i feel we want to try to find a place with NSS - during their
current cris, so as to do as Greg feels, we may be able to help- IF we can
get our letter into someone, and to have thta some/any/one get the word to
those in current authiority" kokhmmm says, "Make that 10,OOO"
MikeD-1 says, "probably more like 2500" Greg-2 says, "Only 10,000? (That's
still a LOT Of folks!)" Greg-2 says, "Oh, Randall would know the exact
number." Severy-1 says, "NSS has nowhere near 16,000 members, not even
10,000 at this point" kokhmmm says, "Used to be 25,000"
Severy-1 says, "Peter, there's now some question as to whether it was ever
anywhere near 25,000" Severy-1 says, "NSS HQ has been fudging the numbers
for a long, long time" Greg-2 says, "Oh."
MikeD-1 says, "ooh, aah"
kokhmmm says, "All organizations are loosing members. " john-r says, "Does
anyone know the ststus of Mars Soc or SFF??" john-r says, "status"
Severy-1 says, "NSS *does* have well more than 2500 members, Mike, but it
is under 10,000" kokhmmm says, "Mars Society has lost members, perhaps
half, not sure. So has Planetary Society. Its a sign of the times. Young
people are not joining in numbers." Greg-2 says, "The last I heard, the
Mars Society was in the hundreds of members." Severy-1 says, "Mars Society
is significantly less than the 2000 they used to claim" kokhmmm says,
"Older people are getting weary. People die. No one takes their place."
MikeD-1 says, "young people have no interest in space, they've never
experienced the buzz of the 60s" Greg-2 says, "IMHO, the way to keep your
membership is good publications." dcarson-1 says, "IIRC the initial member
number was based on the membership of the convention that already existed
and was converted to the mars Society convention" john-r says, "i have read
that what happened to L-% was the dream got so delayed - they merged with
NSS" john-r says, "l-5"
Greg-2 says, "These days, "good" = "very entertaining" publications.
Something worth subscribing to." kokhmmm says, "Perhaps that's good for us,
Randall (Mars Society #s) as Bob Z wants to talk collaboration and
cooperation with me." Greg-2 says, "Oh... the L5 Society fell into
mismanagement when its founders got interested in other things." john-r
says, "really - Peter?"
Severy-1 says, "John, L-5 didn't merge because the dream was delayed"
MikeD-1 says, "my 10 year old will look at the pictures and say 'cool' but
as soon as you try to explain anything to her, she's watching Sabrina on
nikelodeon" Greg-2 says, "So it was left with an extensive chapter system
and no central organization." kokhmmm says, "I'll be in Chicago for the
Mars Convention and we'll see what ideas emerge and bring them back here."
dcarson-1 says, "wonder if Ian and Warren could help, Warren's DAN
ublications runs a very economical puplication business" Severy-1 says,
"L-5 and NSI merged because they both needed each other, and to some degree
complemented each other. I was there in Pittsburgh when it happened."
Greg-2 says, "Dana, you mean reduce the cost of publishing Ad Astra?"
dcarson-1 says, "yes"
dcarson-1 says, "and maybe making it more interesting" Greg-2 says, "I have
no idea; that would be one to send to George Whitesides, I think." john-r
says, "Ahhh, Understood Randall, the page i saw was saved on the first disk
i lost 2 yrs ago" Severy-1 says, "I think they've squeezed any fat left out
of Ad Astra, they've been cutting into the meat for a while now" Greg-2
says, "Yeah, Randall, that's not good." kokhmmm says, "I was in Pittsburgh
too in '87. In fact Milwaukee L5 joined NSS two months before the merger."
john-r says, "ok, i have updated my history memory for the L-5 story :) TY
for the corrections" john-r says, "So we have an idea od where NSS is, do
we bring
http://www.moonsociety.org/private/leaders/nss/nss_sig_proposal_draft.html
to a vote at next meeting??" garygray says, "I would suggest we wait to see
what happens with NSS!" MikeD-1 says, "same here"
kokhmmm says, "I think that we can take a look at it, John, but voting on
it may be premature. I'd like to see what's visible when the dust settles."
john-r says, "Ok, so what else before my sleep bell rings in 20 min or so"
MikeD-1 says, "no point in sinking piles until the ground stops shaking"
kokhmmm says, "In joining NSS, the big prize is access to Ad Astra and its
readership. That may be less of a prize when all the smoke had lifted. Or
it may still be something we want to have." kokhmmm says, "Ad Astra would
be our key to a wider talent pool in undertaking projects and to possible
new members. Though we have to continue to recruit outside the combined
space society membership rosters, going after new people also, as Gary
suggests." Severy-1 says, "Ok, we've covered Elections and the NSS
Relationship agenda items" kokhmmm says, "On to other things"
Severy-1 says, "And most of Membership Services. Greg, any progress on
those renewal notices?" Greg-2 says, "Randall... erm... um... oops!
*blush&" Greg-2 says, "That is, no."
Greg-2 says, "Not yet."
Severy-1 says, "Anything we can do to move that along? It's getting a bit
long in the tooth :-)" dcarson-1 says, "well you'll have more time to work
on it now :-)" Greg-2 says, "Yeah, get Nancy to nag me about it. :)" Greg-2
says, "Or at least to remind me." Severy-1 says, "Ok, will do"
Nancy-1 says, "I prefer the nag tactic! :)" Greg-2 says, ":P"
Severy-1 says, "I'm sure you do, Nancy! :-)" Nancy-1 )
MikeD-1 says, "I could setup gregs-reminders@moonsociety.org" kokhmmm says,
"Greg, did I send you and Ian the letter I had sent out last year on
renewals? I could perhaps resume doing that (if I can't find anything else
to occcupy my time)" Severy-1 laughs.
Greg-2 says, "She does seem to have some effective skills in that area.
Born leader, y'know." Greg-2 says, "I don't think so, Peter, but it
wouldn't hurt to send it to grb@asi.org anyhow." Greg-2 says, "You might cc
nancy@simshost.com as fodder for her nagging campaign. :)" MikeD-1 says,
"is this an email letter or hardcopy?" Greg-2 says, "This is the hardcopy
reminders. We want to create a mail/merge file for Missy to send out a
little renewal package when folks approach expiration." MikeD-1 says,
"would it be less expensive to use postcards" Greg-2 says, "Is anyone
interested in looking at
http://www.moonsociety.org/private/leaders/nss/nss_sig_proposal_draft.html
?" MikeD-1 says, "yes"
garygray says, "Yes!"
kokhmmm has disconnected.
Greg-2 says, "That's the proposal I wrote. Right now it's open-looping."
Greg-2 says, "I tried to incorporate the previous comments and then write
it as a letter to George. That's where we are now." Greg-2 says, "I don't
think George has seen it yet." Greg-2 says, "Don't be shy about
recommending changes and whatevers. Eventually the whole board and all the
officers will need to sign off on this somehow.." john-r says, "Greg Was
The Letter Mailed to George??" john-r says, "or a draft??"
Greg-2 says, "John, no. Randall was going to show it to him but that
meeting has been delayed." Severy-1 says, "No, John, I was going to see
George at a party last weekend, but it was postponed" john-r says, "ahhh"
Greg-2 says, "So it's still fair game for changes with no ramifications on
us." MikeD-1 says, "postponed?"
MikeD-1 says, "as in rescheduled?"
Severy-1 says, "And George is off to Florida tomorrow morning, so he won't
see it until at least sometime next week" Severy-1 says, "No set date,
Mike, George's schedule is slightly beyond nuts at the moment" MikeD-1
says, "i used to have a scedule like that" MikeD-1 says, "even a schedule"
kokhmmm has connected.
kokhmmm says, "moon-leaders"
Greg-2 says, "Welcome back, Peter."
kokhmmm says, "Back again"
kokhmmm says, "I had found the letter I had sent to Greg on 7/13 in my
filing cabinet and was about to resend it when AOL quit on me." Greg-2
says, "You are here."
kokhmmm says, "I'll send it to you after we get off the MOO so it doesn't
happen again." Greg-2 says, "OK, Peter. I'll be alert for it." Greg-2 says,
"I do not see a letter from you on 7/13. No letter with an attachment,
either." MikeD-1 says, "is this something that should be worked on and put
on the agenda for the next meeting?" Greg-2 says, "Mike, you mean asking
folks to review it and recommend changes via the Leaders list?" kokhmmm
says, "Also I sent two emails (first prematurely sent, continued in the
second) about reinventing the Chapter/Outpost/Local Contact system. Most of
you should be getting it." MikeD-1 says, "yes, what you said Greg" kokhmmm
says, "No attachment Greg."
Greg-2 says, "Peter, were those emails sent to the Leaders list?" Greg-2
says, "(In which case, they'll show up in my mailbox for that list.)"
kokhmmm says, "No just to you@asi.org and to Ian" Greg-2 says, "OK"
john-r says, "can i sleep yet?"
MikeD-1 says, "no"
john-r dros sholders in a srug
kokhmmm says, "So long as you don't snore John" MikeD-1 says, "you have to
keep me company while i wait up all night for an errant 16 year old" john-r
says, "if no snore , so the same as a no" kokhmmm says, "Just don't let us
hear you snore, John." Greg-2 says, "Peter, darn, I don't see that one,
either. " john-r says, "Thtas a go then Peter :)" Greg-2 says, "Hmm... if
Randall was on distribution, too, it might have filtered into my CyberTeams
box. Let me check." MikeD-1 says, "tha made no sense John, perhaps you
should catch some Zz" john-r says, "see the typing is going down hill real
fast" kokhmmm says, "Okay, I'll be resending it in a bit." Greg-2 says,
"Nope, not there, either." MikeD-1 says, "why not just send it to the
leaders list?" john-r says, "Anyway - Good meeting, will someone send the
log to the leaders list?" Greg-2 says, "~Live by the filters. Die by the
filters. Go mad by the filters.~" john-r says, "LOL"
kokhmmm says, "Is titled "2003 MMM Renewal Letter"" john-r says, "Night All"
MikeD-1 says, "night john"
john-r has disconnected.
garygray says, "Good night, John@"
Nancy-1 says, "Night, John!"
kokhmmm says, "It's on its way, Greg."
Greg-2 says, "Thanks, Peter!"
Greg-2 says, "Got it! :)"
kokhmmm says, "Great. It was a specialized letter, aimed at keeping mMM
hardcopy numbers up. Use what you can." kokhmmm says, "Has anyone
downloaded the pair of MMMM Classics pdf files I posted to the LRS site? I
had sent the location to all (not just current) members." garygray says,
"Not yet, Peter. But I plan to.!" kokhmmm says, "Enjoy."
The housekeeper arrives to cart john-r off to bed. garygray says, "Yea, I
need some bedtime reading!" kokhmmm says, "They are 31 and 54 pages long
respectively, a healthy replacement for the cancelled MM Review!" kokhmmm
says, "Quiet around here!"
Greg-2 says, "OK, I'll hold it down. :)" dcarson-1 says, "what is the
original format for MMM?" MikeD-1 says, "Peter, I can't find the email with
the links to the PDFs" dcarson-1 says, "
http://www.lunar-reclamation.org/mmm_classics/" kokhmmm says, "Mike, simply
go to www.MoonMinersManifesto.com (caps not necessary, no hyphen) and
you'll find it." Greg-2 says, "Peter, I also received your "Redefining..."
letter." MikeD-1 says, "I did however find an email from you dated Jan 18th
with the subject header 'Fwd: Lunar top level domain name' but there seems
to be no content, StripMime must have removed it" kokhmmm says, "Dana, MMM
was done on an IBM Selectric Typewriter for the first two years, with one
column, 10-12 pages. The 3rd and 4th year it was 2 columns on a Commodore
4" dcarson-1 says, "what format are the PDF ones in before you make the PDF
file?" kokhmmm says, "64, so I have had to have these issues rekeyed, with
help from Joe Bentley and Arthur." dcarson-1 says, "I'm wondering about
makeing Palmdoc files" kokhmmm says, "Claris Works 5.0 - I can use Apple
Works 6.0 but I prefer working in Classic Mode on my Mac OS-X" MikeD-1
says, "Commodore had a slightly unusual character set" kokhmmm says,
"Palmdoc? That's Greek to me. Actually its Sanskrit, as I can read Greek."
MikeD-1 says, "files for palm pilot"
kokhmmm says, "I lost the Commodore 64 Word Processor floppy." dcarson-1
says, "so I can read them on my PDA" MikeD-1 says, "is there a more generic
format that you could use Dana?" kokhmmm says, "The reedited articles are
better illustrated than the originals." dcarson-1 says, "there is a pf
reader for the palm, and it almost leaves some memory free" dcarson-1 says,
"pdf reader"
dcarson-1 says, "and there are html readers" kokhmmm says, "Anyway a lot of
hours went into these two files, so not interested in redoing them."
dcarson-1 says, "I'd create the oc files, just wondered if you had
something thats easier to start from" MikeD-1 says, "do you have those two
files in a format other than PDF?" kokhmmm says, "I thought PDF was
universal." kokhmmm says, "Yes, in Claris Works 5.0 for Mac" MikeD-1 says,
"it is, but it's hard on RAM in a pda" dcarson-1 says, "PDF is widespread
but the reader for palms takes up all the memory my palm has" kokhmmm says,
"If I translate it into Apple Works 6.0 everything gets out of whack and
takes hours to put back in place." kokhmmm says, "I could try saving it in
MS Word 4.0 (an available option) but then I couldn't look at it and see
how it came out." dcarson-1 says, "are you willing to emal me the claris
file so I can try it?" kokhmmm says, "Some pages are split columns, and so
the text does not always flow from top to bottom. No way to undo this."
dcarson-1 says, "I use claris works"
garygray says, "Sorry, people. i need to leave. Tomorrow is another big day
for me. Good nith, everyone!" dcarson-1 says, "gnight"
garygray has disconnected.
MikeD-1 says, "gnight gary"
MikeD-1 says, "2late"
kokhmmm says, "Sure, if AOL will accept the attachment for sending. One is
1.3 mg, the other 2.0 mg" dcarson-1 says, "if its easy enough you can have
versions for pdas up as well" dcarson-1 says, "send the smaller one for me
to try" kokhmmm says, "Will do. What email address should I send it to?"
dcarson-1 says, "dana@thecarsonfamily.org" kokhmmm says, "Have it ready to
send. Will wait until I am off the MOO." kokhmmm says, "Good night for now."
kokhmmm has disconnected.
MikeD-1 says, "what's the file extension used by claris?" Nancy-1 says,
"I'm off too. Night all! :)" The housekeeper arrives to cart garygray off
to bed. dcarson-1 says, "cwk"
Nancy-1 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Nancy-1. MikeD-1 says, "there has to be a
reader or plugin for that in some windows application" The housekeeper
arrives to cart kokhmmm off to bed. dcarson-1 says, "claris works will save
in word format" MikeD-1 says, "word2000 wont save in claris works format"
MikeD-1 says, "but i see there was a claris works for win95" MikeD-1 has
disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove MikeD-1. SJ has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to cart SJ off to bed.

-- End log: Thursday, August 5, 2004 2:06:56 am ASI Meeting Server time --