-- Start log: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 9:05:56 pm ASI Meeting Server time-- 
Lunadyne says, "Welcome everyone! Roll call." lesausl says, "Here"
bnault says, "here" Lunadyne says, "Here" dcarson says, "here" Scottyg
says, "here" kokhmmm says, "here" pjbanyai says, "Here" Lunadyne says, "and
Jason (Chard) is afk" Lunadyne says, "First up - membership. The records
show 152, and I know there are two more in the works." Lunadyne says, "I
also have to sit down and transcribe all of the free memberships from
ISDC." Scottyg says, "And I think one online today that hasn't been
processed yet." Lunadyne says, "Nice. Anyone we know?" kokhmmm says, "I was
wondering about those, as I do not see them in Team Director" Lunadyne
says, "Peter, they're all handwritten, and some of them are European
cursive. A bit of work is required." kokhmmm says, "The freebies from ISDC
are who?" kokhmmm says, "I had a hard time learning Russian cursive."
kokhmmm says, "anyway, it is good to be back above 150" Scottyg says, "The
two in today's online activity are Felix and Diana Polz" Lunadyne says,
"John Cserep, Jim Keravala, Carl Brandon, Tanmay Band, Ashish Chadda, Rajat
Kalia, Deigant Yadava, Bresug Casmin (?), Illautigluai Iudner (?), Lint
Loan (?), Aleca Daniel Adrian, xhculae Radu-Vlad (?)" Scottyg says, "Ken,
the ones you forwarded are presumably sitting in the PO Box. It's been
several days since I checked it." Lunadyne says, "I sent it out the end of
last week." Scottyg says, "That would have been after my last check."
Lunadyne says, "In any event, the membership numbers are moving in the
right direction." Scottyg says, "Possibly an effect from a good ISDC
program." Lunadyne says, "Another proxy is our Facebook likes. When I
started they were 3,114. Now they're at 3,633. " Lunadyne says, "Next up is
Treasury. Scotty & Dana, do you have an accountant for us yet?" kokhmmm
says, "Membership packet mailings are up to date." kokhmmm says, "I thought
Paul Graham was on the freebie list" dcarson says, "not definitly yet"
dcarson says, "need to get the data entry fiished so I can tell them when "
Lunadyne says, "Okay, but this is becoming of increasing urgency so that we
can get to work on generating income. Because item #2 on the agenda is
going to involve spending money.," Scottyg says, "Dana, there are also
month-end and year-end adjusting entries needed. Let me know when you are
ready to work on that." dcarson says, "will do Scotty" Lunadyne says, "I
was hoping we could a strong position of money flowing in before we tackled
the issue of what to do with the website. We do have a solid Treasury, so
we can get started, but dang it I don't want to be known for spending all
of the TMS money." Scottyg says, "Ken, what is your proposal? (So we can be
thinking about it." kokhmmm says, "money lying idle is not productive"
Lunadyne says, "IIRC, we had somewhere around $30K in the bank." Scottyg
says, "Yep." Lunadyne says, "Yeah, but having a kitty helps through the
tough times." kokhmmm says, "minus an unknown debt for MMM - the LRS
treasurer is working on that, too too slowly" Lunadyne says, "Let's get a
Secretary/MMM update, and then we'll move on to #2." kokhmmm says, "July is
MMM's mont off. Meanwhile I am working on the August issue and on the july
India Quarterly." Lunadyne says, "I'm okay with the LRS treasurer taking
their time. You might not be, but the more that gets pushed into the future
the better from my perspective." Lunadyne says, "Where do we stand with the
editing team for the October issue?" kokhmmm says, "Also working on theme
issues, which, in my opinion, are a better match for Kindle because thery
are topic oriented, than the classics" Lunadyne says, "Excalibur Almaz
seems to have taken my Cislunar EconoSphere article to heart. I'd like to
start our Kindle editions with a Lunar Economy theme issue." kokhmmm says,
"As far as I know, Ken, not past the suggestion, that someone else put
together the October issue. I will do so in default, of course." Lunadyne
says, "Ben, weren't you and Paul's sister going to look into that. I think
we had one other volunteer as well." kokhmmm says, "On the Lunar Economy
issue, is need to do an index, and a topical index." bnault says, "not as
far as I know..." Lunadyne says, "Hmmmm..." kokhmmm says, "The tourism
theme issue and arts and crafts issue are ready. Others have to be redone
in one column format." Lunadyne says, "Okay, let me think about the October
issue." Lunadyne says, "Alright. On to agenda item #2 - the website"
kokhmmm says, "Paul's sister Bridget had offered some help." Lunadyne says,
"Here's the deal. This is not for circulation. I'm getting intimations that
folks are looking at moving away from the CyberTeams format." Lunadyne
says, "We've had our issues, and I still have a hard time figuring out how
the danged thing works." Lunadyne says, "It has been expressed previously
that we consider moving the website to a new host and format. Let's discuss
that now." kokhmmm says, "I used to make it sing, Ken, but can't anymore
and I need to be replaced as de facto web guy." dcarson says, "Randall
might still host us even if we don't use WSD" Scottyg says, "Yeah. I don't
think the two are tied together. And keeping our website on the same server
could provide advantages." dcarson says, "but yeah, when we started it
there were few web sit systems and all/most were expensive" dcarson says,
"there are several excellent free ones now and thats what many people know
how to use" Scottyg says, "Up to 154 members now after processing today's
new ones. :=)" dcarson says, "so redoing it in drupal or such might be the
way to go" Lunadyne says, "So that sounds like issue #1 to determine: will
Randall Severy host us if we use a different site architecture." Lunadyne
says, "I use WordPress for my website, and am comfortable with the
interface." Scottyg says, "The server is Linux running Apache web server.
We would have to fit into that environment." kokhmmm says, "Scotty, I only
see Diana Polz" dcarson says, "for what we want I'd think drupal or joomla
are the biggies" Scottyg says, "Try again Peter. I show both." Scottyg
says, "One is new, the other is a renewal." pjbanyai says, "The Mars
Society partially abandoned WSD several years ago. Currently only
chapters.marssociety.org is managed by it." kokhmmm says, "I had already
sent a packet to Francesca." Lunadyne says, "NSS made space available for
their chapters, and NSS of NT tried to get theirs set up back before the
2007 ISDC, but it didn't really work for us." kokhmmm says, "renewal - was
looking for newbies" kokhmmm says, "NSS uses WSD for chapters
nsschapters.org that is" Lunadyne says, "I think NSS-NYC is the only one
using it." kokhmmm says, "I was thinking of rebuilding the LRS site there"
pjbanyai says, "Pair networks is still our domain name and possibly email
hoster." kokhmmm says, "Dana, if Randall has the LRS site saved, could he
put it on nsschapters.org?" Lunadyne says, "I thought our e-mail went
through WSD, which is why attachments get stripped out." Scottyg says,
"email should be on the Linux server." pjbanyai says, "I think that the
incoming email is hosted by pair while the mailing list has a cyberteams
server." Lunadyne says, "Ugh." Strangelv-1 blinks kokhmmm says,
"attachments are stripped by our choice way back when, iirc" Strangelv-1
nods. Scottyg says, "Email to somebody@domain.com by default goes to the
server hosting domain.com." Lunadyne says, "Probably for anti-spam
purposes." dcarson says, "yes there were members that had problems with
nontect email" Scottyg says, "That can be overridden but usually isn't."
Lunadyne says, "Can they be overridden for specific individuals?"
Strangelv-1 suspects such a feature wasn't considered at the time Scottyg
says, "No, for individual the domain server has to be set up to forward to
individual accounts." pjbanyai says, "Dana had to manually setup forwarding
of all officer email addresses to our personal address. It is possible to
rediredt the email dns to another email service such as Google." pjbanyai
says, "Also possible to setup a complex dual host setup. " Lunadyne says,
"We seem to be moving away from my goal of simplifying things..." Scottyg
says, "I'm fairly sure the Cyberteams server is handling mail for
moonsociety.org." Scottyg says, "BTW Ken, WordPress should run fine on the
Cyberteams server." Lunadyne says, "Let's do a poll of the group. Question:
If Randall will continue to host us if we move away from WSD, should we
stay on his server?" Strangelv-1 says, "Lunarpedia list is set up directly
with Majordomo -- this was done to enable non-members to be on the list"
pjbanyai says, "I believe that the Pair email system was disconnected from
cyberteams when Dana had to setup his own personal address which helpdir
could not handle." kokhmmm says, "On Ken's question. I abstain as I do not
understand the differences between the various options and am only familiar
with WSD" Scottyg says, "Ken, unless a different hosting service provides
features not available on the Cyberteams server, I can't see any advantage
to moving." kokhmmm says, "Or with the now extinct AOL FTD system" dcarson
says, "which system a volunteer knows is a major consideration" lesausl
says, "I aldso have to abstain. I'm way out of my element on this
diuscussion." dcarson says, "if a joomla user is willing to do the redesign
then that might be the way to go etc" Lunadyne says, "Exactly, Dana. As we
get younger tech-savvy members, I'm guessing they won't be familiar with
WSD." dcarson says, "and will know one of the opensource ones" dcarson
says, "so check with Randall" Strangelv-1 has Drupal 7 experience dcarson
says, "ask for volunteers and see what they want to use" Scottyg says,
"Yes. But remember, we're not just talking about WSD. We use a whole suite
of tools on our server that might not be available if we move. (Such as
Team Director.)" kokhmmm says, "Scotty, are there any pages or features of
our present website that could not be duplicated on other systems?" dcarson
says, "I don't think any of them do the version control/approval that WSD
does" Lunadyne says, "To what extent are we using Team Director? (I
know...to what extent could we be using Team Director?)" pjbanyai says,
"Prior to the change in server it was possible to install Joomla or any
other php based program such as phpforum. However, we still are having php
problems." Scottyg says, "Ken, its where our membership databasee and
records reside. It manages access to Team and other restricted areas,"
dcarson says, "I don't think we are doing anyrhing with Teamdir that needs
WSD except for the same user database" dcarson says, "how well th others
manage seperate access to different areas of the site I don't know" Scottyg
says, "Dana, my comments were not in the context of WSD, but in the context
of changing servers." dcarson says, "so WSD needs Teamdir but not vice
versa I think" Scottyg says, "Right - I agree." Lunadyne says, "I'm
thinking the database could be ported, as that should be in SQL." Lunadyne
says, "I wouldn't want to be the one doing the porting..." Scottyg says,
"Its not the database, its the applications Ken." Scottyg says, "Porting
the database is easy. The applications are another matter." dcarson says,
"I think we can still use teamdir and helpdir without wsd" bnault says, "I
think we can sever the discussion: it is possible to move or redo the
website, without touching teamdir. We can deal with teamdir tools later."
pjbanyai says, "Team Director lite is disconnected from Team Director and
causes some problems. Theoretically Team Director could be linked with
facebook and even with the NSS Team Director. These features have been
posted as either availble for a price or as coming soon for several years
now." Lunadyne says, "But I'm not seeing where the applications are
unreplicable in other ways." Scottyg says, "Dana, as long as we are on
Randall's server. But I'm not sure if we can move teamdir and helpdir to
another server." dcarson says, "might need to write a plugin for whatever
we end up using to access the teamdir API for who can access member areas,
shouldn't be hard" dcarson says, "yeah, setp #1, check with Randall"
Strangelv-1 says, "Should someone phone Randall?" Lunadyne says, "I was
just going to ask the same thing, James?" Strangelv-1 looks at Dana
Lunadyne says, "I don't really have a relationship or history with Randall.
If I call him there may be a misperception I'm a young turk looking for
trouble." Lunadyne says, "I'll do it, but it may work better coming from
someone who knows him." Strangelv-1 says, "Dana or Scotty wuld probably be
the optimal people to make the call" dcarson says, "I'd say wmil from pres
might be best" Lunadyne says, "wmil?" Strangelv-1 says, "It's a replacement
for email" Lunadyne says, "Ah." Lunadyne says, "Okay, will do." Scottyg
says, "I know Randall moderately well but I think Dana has worked a lot
more closely with him." Strangelv-1 says, "It used to be that all the MOO
regulars har frequent contact with him" dcarson says, "between cyberyeams,
consulting, wife and new hid he don't come here often anymore" kokhmmm
says, "Randall and I both debuted at ISDC 1987, I think" kokhmmm says, "But
I don't have the technical familiarity with the issues to discuss this with
him." Lunadyne says, "Nor do I, but I'll do what I can." kokhmmm says,
"Meanwhile, on a practical issue someone has to put up the announcement
about Space-X and for reasons I do not at all undertand, my attempt was
unsuccessful." Lunadyne says, "Unfortunately, we may have missed the boat
on this one. It may be better to do a generic support for NewSpace
announcement instead." kokhmmm says, "Ken, the announcement has to go in
the /reports/ directory. Once it is there, I can put it on the home page."
Lunadyne says, "I tried to upload the presentations from ISDC, but I don't
see where to do that in Team Director. I wandered around for a while and
gave up." kokhmmm says, "Team Director has nothing to do with the website.
Website Director does. I thought we/I created the necessary directories and
subdirectories for that." Scottyg says, "Ken, its under "SUBMIT UPDATE
REQUEST"" Lunadyne says, "I don't see that option." kokhmmm says,
"conference/isdc/2013/cislunareconosphere/" Lunadyne says, "What is the
address for the Website Director interface?" Scottyg says, "Are you at:
http://www.moonsociety.org/cgi-bin/wsd/wsd " Lunadyne says, "It doesn't let
me in." pjbanyai says, "Damn, I just checked and found that Ken does not
have an active wsd account." Lunadyne says, "Well now I feel stupid...lol"
dcarson says, "U'll add one" pjbanyai says, "Ken fill in the "Request
WebSite Director Pro Account"" kokhmmm says, "Ken, that's not your fault.
We droppped the ball in getting you initiated." Lunadyne says, "Where do I
do that?" dcarson says, "I'll just add one" pjbanyai says, "
http://www.moonsociety.org/wsd/" Strangelv-1 is getting another reminder of
why he's not helped with the society website; does that count? dcarson
says, "OK Lunadyne account created" kokhmmm says, "We dropped the ball by
not getting you set up last August!" kokhmmm says, "It's called being to
close to the trees to see the forest." pjbanyai says, "It would be nice if
Team Dir and WSD was more integrated into a single app:) Curently we need
to setup multiple accounts." Lunadyne says, "Okay, I'm in." Lunadyne says,
"I'll get to work on it tomorrow." pjbanyai says, "I believe it is possible
with Joomla and Drupal for account consolidation with extensions and other
applications." Lunadyne says, "Drupal I've heard of. I think it's pretty
common as a web tool." dcarson says, "the big 3 are wordpress, drupal and
joomla" Lunadyne says, "I'm not sure WordPress would be robust enough to
handle our website needs." kokhmmm says, "Can they all handle websites as
complex as ours?" dcarson says, "IIRC wordpress is blog oriented and doen't
have the range of modules the others do" dcarson says, "but the others have
lots of modules that do all kins of things that we can use" Strangelv-1
suspects Drupal has the most, but hasn't tried to use Joomla! for awhile
Strangelv-1 says, "There's also MojoPortal, but it's mostly aimed at
Microsoft-based servers" Lunadyne says, "I guess the next step there is a
comparison between Joomla and Drupal, based on the kinds of needs our
website has." kokhmmm says, "I tried to use Joomla once and couldn't get
the hang of it." Strangelv-1 says, "It's the one to use if you only know
about Microsoft products" pjbanyai says, "Joomla has had full overhall
within the past year." Lunadyne says, "We should try to be platform
agnostic." Strangelv-1 says, "Drupal is easier that Joomla! -- or at least
the current version of Hrupal is easier than the versions of Joomla! I was
banging my forehead against a few years ago" Strangelv-1's recent
experience with a Microsoft server has him wanting to scream and run away
from SQL Server, ASP, and the like\ dcarson says, "they're close enough
that which ever we get a colunteer for is probably the one to go wiht"
pjbanyai says, "Joomla can be used on LAMP, WAMP, and MAMP." Lunadyne says,
"Which are?" dcarson says, "Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP" dcarson says, "w is
windows, M is Mac" Strangelv-1 says, "LAMP: Linux Apache... yeah" pjbanyai
says, "Linux(LAMP),Windows(WAMP), and Mcrosoft(MAMP). " pjbanyai says,
"Linux(LAMP),Windows(WAMP), and Microsoft(MAMP). " Lunadyne says, "Got it.
Is the same not true for Drupal?" pjbanyai says,
"Linux(LAMP),Windows(WAMP), and Mac(MAMP). " Strangelv-1 says, "WISA is the
opposite: Windows IIS, SQL Server, and ASP -- theoreticallly you can do
WAMP, but that wasn't an option the server's owner was offering" dcarson
says, "yes both drupal and joomla run on all 3" Strangelv-1 says, "It can
be a pain to get things to run on SQL Server. Miscosoft is working on it,
but the initial support was a searning curve the admin was unable to
surmount" Strangelv-1 says, "Ther's a drop-in replacement for MySQL that
isn't owned by Oracle, but I can't remember what it is right now" Lunadyne
says, "We want to be sure to make choices that are extensible in the
future. We don't want to make a change, and then find in ten years we've
got to do it all over again." kokhmmm says, "The appropriate phrase would
be 'it's all Greek to me" except for the fact that I know Greek but none of
the above." Lunadyne says, "Though we may well have to redo everything in
ten years anyway." Lunadyne says, "Peter, as best I understand it,
Linux/Win/Mac are the operating systems of the individual computers. Apache
is how the servers talk to each other. MySQL is the hideously complicated
database structure, and PHP is used in website construction." Lunadyne
says, "More or less." Scottyg says, "Apache is the web server that runs on
the os." dcarson says, "yep" Scottyg says, "The two common choices are
Apache and Microsoft IIS." Scottyg says, "I don't know if there is a
version of Apache for Windows." Strangelv-1 says, "There is" Strangelv-1
says, "But people who only know Microsoft products don't know about it"
Strangelv-1 says, "IIS only runs on MS Windows, which is th biggest single
argument against it" Scottyg says, "If you go with IIS you are stuck with
Microsoft." pjbanyai says, "The last update for the MOO server was in 1999
soon after the version we are currently using. I believe we are using the
encore MOO database 2 version and the current version is 5.0b whihch was
released in 2006." Scottyg says, "GMTA." Lunadyne says, "Couldn't the MOO
essentially be replaced by IMing?" Strangelv-1 says, "We may have a few
seriously legacy things still in place. Until we migrated from pb7 to
'server', we were running FreeBSD 4.x, which EOLed half a decade or more
ago" Strangelv-1 says, "No, the MOO is a chat environment, not an instant
messaging forum. It can also be accessed without specialized software"
Strangelv-1 says, "It did' however, originally replace a set of IRC
channels" dcarson says, "nowadatys yes Ken, al though we lose the text
virtual world" Scottyg says, "Just had a power failure. Am I still
connected?" Lunadyne says, "Yes" Strangelv-1 says, "Reverting to IRC would
cause us to lose the text model of a developed lave tube circa 2101,
though" Strangelv-1 says, "Also, logging into the MOO doesn't announec to
your brother in law that you're online" Scottyg says, "And the MOO is
customizable while IM is WYSIWYG." pjbanyai says, "A text client for
secondlife or opensimulator works essentially the same as the MOO."
Strangelv-1 says, "Yes, and that's been considere,d but the killer is the
overhead" Strangelv-1 says, "The MOO you can log into with a TELNET client
running on a telephone" Strangelv-1 has done this Strangelv-1 says, "Also
the MOO is alwas here, and we have regualrs who are always logged into it,
myself ad Dana included" Lunadyne says, "I forget that not everyone has
plug-in internet." pjbanyai says, "There are Second Life clients for
Android phones." Scottyg says, "Skype is another environment suitable for
meetings." Strangelv-1 says, "Not just that. Logging into the MOO from
Kroger'-s in-store WiFi" Strangelv-1 says, "Complications: Skype is
proprietary, has had some revisions that don't work with multiparty text
chats, and at least one person in here has had a lot of trouble getting it
to work. it _is_ one of the less bad alternatives though" Strangelv-1 says,
"...and is what we were using when the replacement for pb7 was being very
unstable. We called our chat the ASI MOO Refugee Center..." pjbanyai says,
"I believe it is possible to setup communication between the MOO and
Secondlife or Opensim." lesausl says, "Regarding Skype: My MERC team and I
have had several group discussions. Also some folks from Facebook. VERY
clumsy if you don't practice with it." Strangelv-1 says, "COnnecting the
MOO to newer technologies is something i'm quite in favor of" Strangelv-1
says, "Than reminds me of another downside that keeps Skype from being as
good as having our own IRC server: it has connectivity issues" Strangelv-1
says, "You're logged in to skpy and you've joined the chat, but you can't
see anything until 5 minutes bofero the meeting ends when the entire
meeting sans you appears. You implorations of whether or not anyone's home
get integrated into the chat by timestamp" kokhmmm says, "I never have
trouble with the Moo. I frequesntly have trouble with Skype and no longer
have it on my computer." Strangelv-1 says, "The MOO may be legacy
technology, but it's served us extreemly well, is robust, is fcree
software, and can be extended as need be as long as someone in the world is
up to doing the coding" pjbanyai says, "Information on the MOO database is
available at http://ele.sourceforge.net/, http://encore-consortium.org/,
and http://edutechwiki.unige.ch/en/EnCore_installation_and_configuration"
Scottyg says, "IRC had problems like that too. And "splits" where some
members got part of the traffic and others got other parts." Strangelv-1
says, "The MOO should also be easy enough to install on any alternate
server we migrate too" Strangelv-1 says, "...as long as it's dedicated"
pjbanyai says, "We do not have full access to the Moo database." kokhmmm
says, "Gentlemen, I have to leave. Someone picking me up in a couple of
minutes. Goodnight all." kokhmmm has disconnected. Lunadyne says, "Thanks
Peter." lesausl says, "Five minutes and counting. . . " pjbanyai says, "I
believe that Cyberteams is using one single database for all their
clients." Scottyg says, "Does anyone want to propose a recovery path for
Peter being unable to publish web pages?" Strangelv-1 says, "So we'd need
to get Randall to help disentangle it" Lunadyne says, "I think with Peter
it might be the new Mac." Lunadyne says, "Down to the last few minutes, my
action item is to contact Randall about moving away from WSD, and whether
he would kick us off the server." Strangelv-1 wonders if there's another
route -- accounts would be lost, but objects might be systematically
@dump-able Scottyg says, "All we really need is the username/password for
access. From there it would take a bit of hacking but is not too
difficult." Strangelv-1 says, "That sounds a lot nicer than my plan B"
Lunadyne says, "The other action item is a comparison between Drupal and
Joomla as to which would best serve us." Lunadyne says, "Any volunteers?"
Scottyg says, "I have MySQL tools to pull the data out of a database in a
portable format." Strangelv-1 votes for Drupal but may be biased. He's also
too overcommitted to singlehandedly take over the project Lunadyne says,
"James, not take over the project, just help with a Drupal/Joomla
comparison." lesausl says, "I am completely clueless about these matters.
More so than usual. . . " pjbanyai says, "Reminder, we need the following 3
items addressed on Guidestar before we can start to setup Amazon,
Dreamhost, and Google Non-profit accounts (1)Chairman ofthe Board (2)Every
member of Management Committee has reviewed the Panel on the Nonprofit
Sector's principles for Good Governance and Ethical Practices and (3) We
have between 1 to 5 official programs with the first one listed being our
main Project program." lesausl says, "10:00" The housekeeper arrives to
cart kokhmmm off to bed. Strangelv-1 says, "I can describe how things work
with Drupal 7, but it's been too long since I'v used Joomla! for me to give
a blow-by-blaw comparison that wouldn't be apples to apples anyway"
Strangelv-1 says, "Gien the time disparite" Strangelv-1 says, "disparity"
Lunadyne says, "Let's take up the GuideStar as an early agenda item for
next time." Strangelv-1 says, "You plop the tarball into a directory of
your choosing, ren the install.php, fix any issues it runs into, then you
have a milimal web site that shouldn't have very much you don't want to
havne anyway" pjbanyai says, "Ken, I recommend looking at the cyberteams.com
website before talking to Randall." Lunadyne says, "It is a wee bit after
10pm. Any motions to adjourn?" Strangelv-1 says, "You find or create a
theme, set up the theming, install extensions that do things you need, and
set them up" dcarson says, "move to adjourn" Lunadyne says, "What should I
be looking for there, Paul?" Lunadyne says, "So moved. Second?" Scottyg
says, "second" Strangelv-1 says, "Also set up users, especially anes you
want to have admin level access. Hiding tche login page is something that's
always been on my needsto-do list" Lunadyne says, "In favor?" dcarson says,
"aye" lesausl says, "Ayue" Scottyg says, "aye" Strangelv-1 doesn't have a
vote on this Strangelv-1 says, "There's views and other extensions that are
often the main selling points for Drupa'l" Lunadyne says, "I think we have
some folks who fell asleep in the computer discussion..." Lunadyne says,
"I'll throw in the fourth aye and we are adjourned." Strangelv-1 says,
"...and someone who's probably still not home from work" lesausl says,
"Noyt asleep. Bewildered and confused." Strangelv-1 says, "Hope the work
situation doesn't go badly" Lunadyne says, "This web stuff is a pain,
Bryce." pjbanyai says, "Just to help you get a better understanding of what
Cyberteams promises their clients and possibly other ways in which they
might help us improve our site." pjbanyai says, "aye" Strangelv-1 says,
"drupal 7 is my least painful CMS experience. Hands down" lesausl says,
"Tell me about it Ken! G'Nite all!" lesausl has disconnected. Strangelv-1
says, "it's what Dimensionality.com is running on right now" bnault has
disconnected. Strangelv-1 says, "..after more failed attempts than I have
any desire to admit to" Lunadyne says, "I'm thinking we need to appoint a
Webmaster as an officer of the organization." Lunadyne says, "Give them a
team, too." Strangelv-1 says, "We'd need to enlarge the board. The
management committe by statute must have a majority ofg its members be
directors" dcarson says, "we have the position and the mailing ist for the
team, jist no one in it" pjbanyai says, "There is already a webteam. It has
no Leader." Strangelv-1 says, "The legacy web situation is a steeper
learning curve than my health will let me surmount" Lunadyne says, "I'm
just sitting here debating with myself how embarrassing it would be for us
to publish all of the open team positions for which we are looking for
folks." pjbanyai says, "Even when there was a Leader the webteam was a
little useless since they had very limited power over the website."
Lunadyne says, "That's why I'm saying it needs to be an officer level
position. " Strangelv-1 says, "The number of teams we used to have is very
impressive. That every single one of them collapsed is a very different
story" Strangelv-1 says, "If you're not up for writing the proposed
ammendments we'd need to make for our bylaws, you might be able to write an
initial set of specifications" The housekeeper arrives to cart lesausl off
to bed. pjbanyai says, "Information about how to work with wsd is hidden in
some of the asi webteam logs and some of the asi databook." The housekeeper
arrives to cart bnault off to bed. Strangelv-1 says, "Is our version of WSD
old enugh that the ADB documentation is still relevant?" Strangelv-1 says,
"I suspect the ADB documentation predates the formation of CyberTeams"
Strangelv-1 wonders if he's told the management committee about his
renewing work on Autostub1 Scottyg says, "WSD has online documentation
available at Cyberteams. It covers most questions." Lunadyne says, "I'm
tempted to do some serious housecleaning. Wipe out most of the Teams and
reset with a couple of new ones." pjbanyai says, "most of the asi teams are
already gone." Strangelv-1 says, "We need to document everything we have
from those, especially list archives that someone might be able to mine to
crate documents" Scottyg says, "Ken, there are HELP and Tutorial links at
the top right part of the WSD entry page." Strangelv-1 says, "...but they
ned to be in a location that makes it wery clearly that they are historical
teams, not current ones. Archiwves. History." Lunadyne says, "Great...more
stuff I have to find time for..." Strangelv-1 says, "We could probably plop
them somewhere and let someone tidy up the archives after the fact"
Lunadyne says, "Or just wiped away and reset with a half dozen new ones."
Strangelv-1 says, "ONly create new ones when we already have the people for
them" Strangelv-1 has disconnected. The housekeeper arrives to remove
Strangelv-1. Strangelv-1 arrives. Strangelv-1 says, "Sorry about that. I
made a typo with my alt key and GNOME MUD closed on me" Strangelv-1 says,
"What was the last thing you said?" Scottyg says, "Lunadyne says, "Or just
wiped away and reset with a half dozen new ones."" Lunadyne says, "I was
just getting to that..." Strangelv-1 remembers that
http://www.exoplatz.org/index.php?title=Extreme_Wiki_Poster was moer
off-topic than it had seemed a moment earlier. The important part is not
Maksutov Crater, but that Autostub1 will create roughly 15,000 articles
similar to this one Strangelv-1 says, "erk, wrong link" Strangelv-1:
http://www.lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Lunarpedia:Maksutov_Crater
Strangelv-1
<http://www.lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Lunarpedia:Maksutov_CraterStrangelv-1>
says, "We could probably handle having the archiwves temporarilyf
unavailable" Lunadyne says, "If I get re-elected, I do want to see the
Teams pared to just a handful. Then I'll put out a call for all members to
join at least one Team." Strangelv-1 says, "For what I'd want to do with
them they're not available enough right now anyway -- a future project
would be needed to make them suffigcientyl accessible" Strangelv-1 says,
"One person's trash is another person's data. Right now I'd still say
paring is the wrong term. Effectivly we have NO teams at all" pjbanyai
says, "The majority of the moonsociety.org teams are the chapters."
Lunadyne says, "Website, Newsletter, Lava Tube Project, Solar Sail Comm Sat
Project, Education and Outreach" Strangelv-1 says, "We have mislocated
archives and other stuff pertaining to historical teams" Strangelv-1 says,
"Okay, THOSE we have" Strangelv-1 says, "We do have outposts and chapters"
Strangelv-1 says, "Th Near Earth Object team is basicalyl a historical
email archive that's buried somewhere that needs to become more accessible"
Lunadyne says, "If there are no Teams then I don't want a long list of
teams not doing anything." Strangelv-1 says, "Joining the list or teh team
would be completely meaningless" Strangelv-1 says, "and offering to let
people do so is a bad idea" Strangelv-1 says, "We wouldn't even need to
link to them from the main site. We could link to the archiwves from
Lunarpedia" Lunadyne says, "If the teams are meaningless, then cull them,
and reset to just a couple of relevant ones reflecting the work we're
actually doing, versus umet prior ambitions." Lunadyne says, "unmet"
Strangelv-1 says, "W may simply be disagreeing over terminology"
Strangelv-1 says, "The immediate need is to stop presenting them as extant
teams that people can join" Strangelv-1 says, "And probably stop mentioning
them at all" Strangelv-1 says, "at least on the main site" Lunadyne says,
"Let's put it this way: If I'm re-elected, I'm going to tell all members to
go to a particular web address and sign up for a team so we can get some
work done. when they go to this website I want them to see no more than a
half-dozen choices for teams." Strangelv-1 says, "any use for them at this
point is sparate from a revamp of the main sit" pjbanyai says, "I think
some teams should be shown to members of other teams such as the leadership
team." Strangelv-1 says, "Option 1: the teams are something new, and maybe
mention sometime later on that there are achives somewhere for a past team
that did the same thing. " Strangelv-1 says, "acutally I'm not going to
mention teh other ones. I don't like any of them as much as the one I just
mentioned" Strangelv-1 says, "A celan break is probably needed" Lunadyne
says, "Always good to see 'Undefined variable: member_details in
/virtual/moonsociety/htdocs/teams/index.php on line 319' on the website."
Strangelv-1 says, "Someone might want to retcon the break away in the
future, but we need it now" Strangelv-1 says, "erk" Lunadyne says, "Bay
Area Moon Society" Strangelv-1 says, "IIRC most of the teams got started
because someone was ready to head them and there was already a team in
place. Admittedly szome of them fell apart as soon as the email list was
created" Strangelv-1 says, "We may not have much archival materia for
gorups tdhat did that" Lunadyne says, "Bay Area Moon Society, Chapters
Team, Conference Team, Eurochapter, General Discussion, Houston
Chapter,Leadership Council, Mid Atlantic Chapter, Milwaukee Chapter, Moon
Society India, Moonbase Simulation, North Texas Chapter, Oregon Chapter,
Outreach Committee, San Diego Chapter, St. Louis Chapter, United Kingdom
Chapter, Utah Moon Society, Web Team are the teams I see." Strangelv-1
says, "Which means most of the teams have alrady been romoved from the
listing" Lunadyne says, "In my view the working chapters and outposts
should be carved into a separate communications structure. Teams should be
for projects and society work that needs to be done. Web Team. Outreach
team. Newsletter Team." Strangelv-1 says, "If any of those are similarly
dead, I'd give them the same status as the ISRU team, et al" Strangelv-1
says, "And sometime after we have a site that's not an ongoing disaster we
can hopefulyl find time to figure out how to mine those archives"
Strangelv-1 wonders if this means he's volunteered for the Historical Team
Strangelv-1 says, "I agree with separating outpusts asd chapters from
topic-speucific teams" pjbanyai says, "I would say the General Discussion
and Information team." pjbanyai says, "Which you are already a member of."
Strangelv-1 says, "What's the list email?" pjbanyai says, "
discuss@moonsociety.org" Strangelv-1 has been increasinly incapable of
keeping up with his normal dluge of emails without another list to fail to
keep track of Strangelv-1 says, "I wonder if this was the failed one that
was set up about 11 years ago" Lunadyne says, "Ken also has trouble keeping
up with the deluge of e-mails from lists." Strangelv-1 says, "It was
supposed to be a successor to Artemis List, but because people were thrown
off the moment they found themselwves unable to pay their dues, it never
went anywhere because the people most incluned to participate were too
broke to not be thrown off automatically at the nd of the day. Okay, more
than 11 years ago" Strangelv-1 says, "So here's a question: what's a
subtitute for email lists?" Strangelv-1 says, "Possib/le idal case being
something akin to the linked forum efforts Mike was doing 10 years ago ...
and I just realized I'm ahing troubel counting through the brain fog"
Strangelv-1 says, "The linked forlum meaning an email updated the forum and
a forum update sent out an email" Strangelv-1 says, "The failed Artemis
List replacement was more than 6 years ago, not more than 11" Strangelv-1's
monthly intake at the time was literally $0 and had been for a femw years
at the time. Renewing his membership required the generosity of third
parties, which occured only sporadically Strangelv-1 maybe should have
asked an easier question than 'what's a substitute for email lists'
pjbanyai says, "Good thing I have not been spamming messages:/) The General
Discussion Team was fairly new. It is The goal of the General Discussion
team to allow a forum for: a. Moon Society Members to discuss items
relating to the Society. b. General discussion of planned NASA/other Moon
Missions, including The Artemis Project?. and c. Society and joint
inter-societal projects, projects of other groups, public outreach, books,
websites ect.. I see it as more of team for forum, facebook, etc or the
"external" web team." pjbanyai says, "Also as the Moon Society's form of
the Artemis Society's ECTC." Strangelv-1 looks forward to the Moon
Society's ECTC producing its equivalent to CyberTeams. Been awhile since
our efforts have created companies pjbanyai says, "One of the tasks for the
ECTC was to maintain Historical and Statistical Communication Records."
Strangelv-1 says, "Noted" Strangelv-1 says, "BTW, in case I never mentioned
it to you, if you can stuff it into a spreadsheed, I can use it to crank
out however many wiki articles as the spreadsheet has lines" Strangelv-1
says, "Net exactly new, just something I've been sidetracked from for
awhile, at least until I started trying to create county party articles for
a political wiki I'm with" Strangelv-1 says, "Which might be something
along the lins of what you describe the ECTC as being tasked with"
Strangelv-1 says, "When I was sporadically visiting asi.org and looking ofr
any signs of life and failing to find the link to the email list, the ECTC
was the one thing I consistently saw activity with" Strangelv-1 mostly cot
lost in the /l/a/b/y/r/i/n/t/h/ Strangelv-1 says, "This came to an end one
day when I saw mention of a public meeting being held in an IRC channel
every Saturday or maybe juust that particular Saturday" pjbanyai wonders if
l.a.b.y.r.i.n.t.h will become a domain name;-) Strangelv-1 says, "Maybe
it's one of the fils in a rather large directory og C++ header files"
Strangelv-1 says, "" did his best to drink the C++ hader and prototype
dogmatic kool-aid, but it didn't stick. He now runs away screaming from
it." Strangelv-1 will be back in a bit Lunadyne has disconnected. The
housekeeper arrives to cart Lunadyne off to bed. Strangelv-1 says, "back;
if you're still her, it might be good to go to the Commons" pjbanyai has
disconnected. 
-- End log: Thursday, June 21, 2012 4:02:01 am ASI Meeting Server time --