-- Start log: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 9:04:19 pm ASI Meeting Server time --

TimCadell cheers loudly.
Greg-1 says, "Brought to you LIVE on ASI MOO!" jburk-1 says, "if you
haven't already, check out
http://www.moonsociety.org/chapters/chptrules.html" TimCadell says,
"Escalation?"
jburk-1 says, "yeah, if a chapter leader needs to let HQ know about
something, or have a decision made, that's the person." jburk-1 says, "a
person like that is notably missing from the Mars Society hierarchy"
jburk-1 is speaking about the Chapters Coordinator role Greg-1 says, "NSS
doesn't have a chatpers coordinator?" Scottyg says, "I have a comment about
the relationship between the Moon Society and Chapters....." jburk-1 says,
"yeah it does, Bennett Rutledge i think" Scottyg says, "If thats the first
thing we want to discuss. Or do we follow the agenda?" jburk-1 says, "no if
you guys want to bring this up later, that's fine. just wanted to show you
as its hot off the presses" Greg-1 says, "Oops. It seems like we should at
least give a polite nod to the agenda." Severy says, "Shall we review the
document in detail in the chapters portion of the agenda?" Severy says,
"Let's start at the top of the agenda: Headquarters Operations" Severy
says, "Scotty, what kind of updates do you have for us tonight?" dcarson
says, "read agenda"
Scottyg says, "As reported earlier by email, financial statements thru
Sept, 2000 have been published." Severy says, "Sorry, Dana, I don't have an
agenda object set up in here yet" Scottyg says, "I think everyone here has
access to the agenda, which has a link to them." dcarson says, "no problem"
Scottyg says, "(Browser access)"
Scottyg says, "Any questions before I move on?" Severy says, "None here"
Severy says, "Treasurer's Reports look good to me!" Scottyg says, "Ok, next
is Credit card processing." Scottyg says, "I have been thru a second round
of contacts with our bank. We sweetened the pot by offering to post a CD a
security on the Merchant Account, plus Tim provided a letter relating his
experience processing ASI memberships." Scottyg says, "They still don't
want to do the deal, so we are going to have to go with a third-party
arrangement." jburk-1 says, "damn"
jburk-1 says, "what bank is this anyway" TimCadell says, "Congrats on
getting the financial stuff this far, Scotty! It's not fun to do, I know."
dcarson says, "pairs latest newsletter had a note about credit card
accounts" Scottyg says, "The bank has referred me to someone they work
with, plus I have a fairly long list of spam offering merchant accounts and
services." Scottyg says, "The bank is Compass Bank Jim. The are mostly
Southeast US." jburk-1 says, "ok"
TimCadell says, "Should we have 'PayPal' ability, too? I'm looking into
that for other sites." dcarson says, "take a glance at
http://www.pair.com/pair/commerce.html" Greg-1 says, "What is PayPal?"
Scottyg says, "So with the board's blessing, I'll have some recommendations
together for the mext meeting in two weeks." dcarson says, "sounds good to
me Scotty" jburk-1 says, "paypal.com is a way to send somebody a payment
electronically" jburk-1 says, "you both have to register with paypal.com
but its easy" TimCadell says, "And you keep an account online to pay from.
And I believe it costs nothing to the consumer end." Scottyg says, "Tim, my
concern is how to integrate that with the web form for gathering the member
info." Scottyg says, "Does anyone have any experience with the paypal
system?" dcarson says, "no"
Scottyg says, "(From the back end.)"
TimCadell says, "Not much, but one of my customers is paying some of their
employees through paypal." TimCadell says, "Not yet. I'm going to look into
it and I'll let you know." Severy says, "I've used it a couple of times,
and as far as I know I have some money sitting in it that I need to get out
some time" TimCadell says, "That's how they make some of their money, on
the interest." Scottyg says, "Ok. Lets list it as a possible future
enhancement for now. I don't want to do anything to slow down getting a
system on-line." Greg-1 says, "What do we need besides the credit card
account/" Greg-1 says, "?"
TimCadell says, "We should look at
http://www.merchant-accounts.com/pair/rates.html, which is the endpoint
that Dana pointed to. This might be a lot easier." Scottyg says, "Some
software work to tie it into our on-line registration, and manage the back
end." jburk-1 says, "I have a work item to hook up our registration form
with team director -- should have that done this weekend" Greg-1 says,
"Yippee!"
Scottyg says, "Yes, that needs to be done too, but is a different task than
getting on-line card processing running." Greg-1 says, "One of these days
we'll need to cope with the fact that the ASI and Moon Society memberships
might diverge in the future." Scottyg says, "That would be great Jim."
Scottyg says, "Yes Greg. And also with the fact that they are the same for
now." Scottyg says, "Ok, if thats all on credit cards...Non-profit tax
exemption is next." Scottyg says, "I will start on that this weekend. I
have the forms and instructions. They are rather long and a bit complex, so
it will take a bit of time, but I can probably get them done before the
next Council meeting. I'll then send them along to Ted Lindsay for legal
review." Scottyg says, "I think we can probably expect to file them within
30 days." Scottyg says, "There is a question related to Chapters....."
TimCadell says, "Great!"
Scottyg says, "Which leads right in to the next topic." Scottyg says, "Jim
presents Chapters as independent organizations, meaning they do not fall
under our Non-profit "umbrella"." Scottyg says, "Is that how we want it? (A
Parent organization can obtain a group exemption for its children.)"
Scottyg says, "But then they are not independent organizations." TimCadell
says, "How much responsibility and monitoring is expected from the parent
organization?" Scottyg says, "The parent must file reports which include
the financial activities of the children in that scheme, and can be held
responsible in various ways for actions of the children." jburk-1 says,
"there are many reasons why chapters should be legally independent, and I
think we've discussed that in the past" jburk-1 says, "but 80% of chapters
are not going to have to worry about taxes anyway due to their size" Greg-1
says, "Would we want to give local chapters the option? If they want to be
part of the parent corporation, they have to commit to the bookkeeping and
reporting procedures." Scottyg says, "So the group arrangement has its
hazards, but saves the children the effort and expense of doing their own
filings." jburk-1 says, "I don't think so, there are problems with that
once you cross state & country lines" dcarson says, "seems reasonable, if
they want us to do some work they have to agree to as well" jburk-1 says,
"(don't think they should be in the group arrangement)" Scottyg says, "Jim,
the most important advantage is legal recognition of Non-Profit status.
That makes donations tax-deductible, and opens the doors to certain
programs for fund raising." Greg-1 says, "It also ties them solidly to the
parent organization." jburk-1 says, "you mean donations to chapters?"
Scottyg says, "Yes Jim."
jburk-1 says, "the problem with that is the possibily of abuse by the
chapter and the parent org having to deal with it" TimCadell says, "So, if
a Chapter were to engage in fund raising, it would not be non-profit if the
money funnelled through the Chapter?" jburk-1 says, "sounds like real
parents/children :)" Greg-1 says, "NSS has had some problems with local
chapters that really aren't local chapters. I don't know if those problems
are sufficient reason to be fearful of independent local chapters." Scottyg
says, "For example, several grocery chains have a program in which people
register their membership in a non-profit organization, and the store
donates a percentage of their purchases (Typ 1%) to the organization."
Scottyg says, "But organizations must have 501c3 regonition to
participate." Greg-1 says, "Donations to independent chapters would only be
tax-deductible if the local chapter goes through the hassle of getting
501(c)(3) recognition from the IRS." jburk-1 says, "its no problem for a
chapter to apply for that themselves" TimCadell says, "Right, I got that."
Greg-1 says, "Jim, you mean to apply for 501c3?" jburk-1 says, "it's not
hard, at least in our state, to fill out a form and become a non-profit
corp" Scottyg says, "Its not a state thing. Its Federal." jburk-1 says,
"the irs forms are a bit more complicated, but we can assist chapter
leaders with that" Greg-1 says, "Yeah, forming a non-profit corporation is
easy. Getting recognition from the IRS presents additional challenges."
Scottyg says, "Its not too hard to do." Greg-1 says, "There are a lot of
non-profits in Washington State that never achieved IRS exemption status."
Greg-1 says, "(Hey, maybe Boeing should apply!)" jburk-1 says, "right but
the question is, is the IRS going to go after a chapter that has like $3000
in their account" Scottyg says, "But does require some effort. The forms
plus instructions is a 1/2 inch thick stack of 8 1/2 x 11 printout" Greg-1
says, "They'll go after the guy who lists a donation to the chapter on this
tax return." TimCadell says, "Does our lawyer have a recommendation?"
Scottyg says, "Actually Jim, below a certain income level, you don't even
have to file as far as the IRS is concerned. Its the doner side where the
problem occurs." jburk-1 says, "can the donors put HQ instead of the
chapter?" Greg-1 says, "What does the Mars Society do?" jburk-1 says,
"chapters are independent from HQ, some have gotten 501c3 themselves but
only a handful" Greg-1 says, "People could donate money to the Moon
Society, but the Moon Society is restricted on what it can do with the
money. " jburk-1 says, "a few of us have donated cash to our seattle
chapter but I don't think any of us claimed it on our return" Greg-1 says,
"Yeah, that's the key plot point." Greg-1 says, "There are few other
benefits to 501c3 recognition, but the big one is that people can deduct
donations on their income tax forms." Scottyg says, "I think the limit is
$10,000 annual. Its in the instructions, but I have reviewed them recently
so my memory may be fallible." jburk-1 says, "even if we say here that
chapters are independent, in many ways they're really not. obviously
they're going to have the same goals & members, so maybe the feds would
consider a donation to a chapter and a donation to HQ as the same thing --
in which case they could put HQ on their return" Scottyg says, "Below
$10,000, a non-profit does not have to file for 501c3" TimCadell says,
"That's pretty good."
TimCadell says, "Doesn't that let out most chapters?" Greg-1 says, "That's
$10,000 in annual income?" Scottyg says, "Only if you don't get caught Jim.
If the child is part of a group, they must report income & expense and the
parent must include it on its annual report." jburk-1 says, "i think that's
going to cover the vast majority. those with more than $10k can afford to
file" Scottyg says, "Annual gross revenue if I remember right Greg."
TimCadell says, "I agree, Jim. What about stipulating that in the rules for
Chapters, just so that it's understood?" jburk-1 says, "having to compile
financial info from chapters in addition to HQ is going to make your job a
lot harder Scotty :)" Scottyg says, "But that only refers to the chapter
having to file to obtain exemption from tax. It still doesn't make
donations deductible." TimCadell says, "Ah, so."
Scottyg says, "Yes it is. And this might be a situation in which we go the
independent route for now, but when the Society becomes large enough to
have paid staff, the it changes to the group arrangement." dcarson says,
"it fairly easy to get an exemption from paying tax on the income as a
non-profit, harder to get the status where people can take a deduction for
a donation to you" Scottyg says, "Actually, my biggest concern is getting
the chapters to file." Greg-1 says, "Maybe if we had all the forms set up
in a mail/merge file ..." Scottyg says, "We would have to be quite strict
about it so that the national organization isn't late filing its returns."
Severy has reconnected.
Severy says, "@#*(@*$(*@#$"
Greg-1 says, "Listening to the debate, Randall?" Severy says, "Yup"
Scottyg says, "But the rules permit chapters to be added and deleted, so
the easy way to handle it is to drop a chapter that is late with their
filing." TimCadell says, "That's if the chapters were "owned" by The Moon
Society, yes? I'd say let them be apart unless someone later comes up with
a really good reason for us to change the rules." Scottyg says, "Ok, have
we debated this enough? Seems the prevailing feeling is for chapters to be
independent." Scottyg says, "If I hear no objection, we'll adopt that."
dcarson says, "I think so"
TimCadell says, "I think so."
jburk-1 says, "i know so :)"
Scottyg bangs the gavel on the podium.
Scottyg says, "Done. Jim, your turn."
jburk-1 says, "ok the chapter rules document?" dcarson says, "looked OK to
me"
jburk-1 says, "again the url is
http://www.moonsociety.org/chapters/chptrules.html" jburk-1 says, "I put a
couple things in italics that I wanted to discuss" TimCadell says, "I'm not
sure I like the word "escalation" to mean moving data up the stream."
jburk-1 says, "what should we officially call chapters-in-formation -- is
that a good phrase?" TimCadell says, "That's okay with me."
jburk-1 says, "also chapters can *appoint or* elect a rep on the council.
appoint will speed things up, plus that's usually how it works: somebody
volunteers to be the rep and the "election" is a formality" jburk-1 says,
"but if more than one person wants to do it, have an election" Greg-1 says,
"Yup, but we do need words to resolve disputes should they arise." Greg-1
says, "We also need some words about chapters being recognized by the Moon
Society." jburk-1 says, "that's in #1 greg"
jburk-1 says, "what did you have in mind?" Greg-1 says, "Oops ... I meant
officers being recognized." Greg-1 says, "If there is a leadership dispute
within a chapter, then somebody has to be the arbiter." jburk-1 says, "if
officers are elected by the members of a chapter, why do we need to
recognize?" jburk-1 says, "if they are not elected (such as one guy who
started the chapter remains the leader), then we urge them to have an
election to formalize the office" Scottyg says, "Why not say that in the
chapter rules?" Greg-1 says, "As long as we don't have a situation where
someone is playing politician, we'll be OK. But being loose about how
officers are selected leaves me wondering about the status of chapters."
jburk-1 says, "how about #5: chapters are *expected* to elect their own
leadership (instead of free to)" Greg-1 says, "Perhaps just "chapters
elect"?" Scottyg says, "how about -required_"
Scottyg says, "And a list of minimum required officers?" jburk-1 says, "5.
Chapters are required to fairly elect their own leadership structure. In
situaions where a dispute arises over the leadership of a chapter, Moon
Society HQ may step in." Scottyg says, "(Should be President and
Secretary/Treasurer)" Greg-1 says, "Oh. Yeah. President and Treasurer are
kind of legal requirements." Greg-1 says, "At least in Washington."
jburk-1 says, "I don't think we should pidgeonhole the titles they have --
if one guy is the leader and also takes notes & maintains the website, and
everybody is ok with that, why make them elect another person -- esp. if
there are only 5 people" Greg-1 says, "That's good, Jim. Though "step in"
is an ambiguous term. " Greg-1 says, "I'd say "Moon Society board of
directors will arbitrate the decision"." jburk-1 says, "ok"
Greg-1 says, "Once in a while, the board has to earn their egoboo. :)"
Scottyg says, "The actual division of work is often not what the title
indicate. But having a minimum of two officers has many benefits." jburk-1
says, "how about the leadership council instead of the board?" Scottyg
says, "And will be required if the Chapter incorporates." jburk-1 says, "or
even the chapters counci" jburk-1 says, "how about -- minimum of 2
officers, one of which must be responsible for finances" jburk-1 says,
"although if they are financially independent i don't see how we can
mandate that" Greg-1 says, "I'm thinking the board because they are elected
officers of the corporation." jburk-1 says, "ok, board does make sense"
Scottyg says, "A Chapter scandal reflects on the National organization. I
think we have a duty to establish rules to help avoid that." jburk-1 says,
"5. 5. Chapters are required to fairly elect their own leadership structure
from within their membership. Chapter leaders must consist of at least two
officers, one of which is responsible for financial matters. In addition,
chapters are expected to appoint or elect a representative to serve on The
Moon Society's Chapters Council. In situations where a dispute arises over
the leadership or council representation, the Moon Society Board of
directors will arbitrate the decision." Greg-1 says, "On the other hand, if
chapters aren't part of the corporation then there's not a legal
requirement." Greg-1 says, "Oops ... but Scotty is right ... it would be a
policy issue. The board can't dodge that one." jburk-1 says, "agreed on
that point"
Greg-1 says, "Yeah, I like that. What I don't want to do is to set up an
organization where there's a HQ organization and an estranged Chapters
Council acting as a separate organization." Scottyg says, "I'm happy with
Jim's wording. (Capitalize Directors.)" Greg-1 says, "[Ouch! I should have
left the audio off on the debate.]" TimCadell says, "I'm fine with it."
dcarson says, "OK here"
Greg-1 says, "Jim, you had "chapter-in-formation" italicized. Looking for
better wording?" TimCadell says, "I need to get going. See you all later!"
Greg-1 says, "(Not that I have any brilliant ideas. There must be an
elegant term for it, but I don't know what it is.)" TimCadell says, "Oops,
dang. I forgot about the bit I wanted to bring up. Can you bring it up,
Scotty?" cdb says, "embryo chapter?"
Greg-1 says, "Used to be that a new company that was being incorporated
without a name was called "the advent corporation"." jburk-1 says, "unless
you think chapter-in-formation is good" Scottyg says, "I can mention it
Tim, but you need to make the proposal." TimCadell says, "Well, I'll have
to bring it up in email, then. I have to go, unfortunately. See you all
later!" TimCadell has disconnected.
Scottyg says, "Is there any reason to address the issue of Chapters being
part of more than one national organization in this?" jburk-1 says, "we
could, but how would we word it?" The housekeeper arrives to cart TimCadell
off to bed. Scottyg says, "I'm not convinced anything is needed. I think
the best policy is to ignore it and just have the "goals and creeds, and
purposes" requirements." jburk-1 says, "ok"
Scottyg says, "But since it has been discussed from time-to-time, I thought
I should bring it up." rhodab follows Severy into the room
Severy says, "Hi, Rhoda!"
rhodab says, "Hi there. Sorry I'm late. I had another board meeting that
lasted a lllooonnnngggg time!" Scottyg says, "Hi Rhoda!"
rhodab says, "Hi Scotty"
Scottyg says, "Those long bored meetings are a pain." rhodab grins.
Greg-1 says, "I'm dithering about chapters that are a part of other
organizations." Scottyg says, "Anyone else have a suggestion on
chapters-in-formation?" Greg-1 says, "In that chase, "chapter" doesn't
sound like the right term to refer to it." Greg-1 says, "In that case, too."
Scottyg says, "Greg, seems to me that the same group of people could form
chapters in several organizations and have joint meetings, and there is
little we could do about it except insist that activities conducted in the
name of Moon Society reflect our goals, etc." Scottyg says, "LRS is
probably a good example." Scottyg says, "NSS/ASI/Moon Society combo" Greg-1
says, "Joint meetings sounds like an outstandingly good idea to me."
Scottyg says, "With Mars Society ties too." jburk-1 says, "i need to take
off, but I will be back on in about 1/2 hour when I get home" Greg-1 says,
"I would expect, though, that if we recognize a thing as a chapter, then
that thing will be a separate organization, and 100% of its members will be
members of the Moon Society." Greg-1 says, "OK, Jim."
Scottyg says, "Agreed!"
jburk-1 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove jburk-1. Scottyg says, "Of course, in
joint meetings, not all members will be members of all organizations. I
gues the key thing is who votes in elections." Scottyg says, "Of course, in
joint meetings, not all attendees will be members of all organizations. I
guess the key thing is who votes in elections....too." Greg-1 says, "Right."
Scottyg says, "So should we address voting rights then?" Greg-1 says, "I
guess the thing that makes an organization a chapter of the Moon Society is
that it has applied for recognition, and its officers have been recognized
as representing the membership to the Moon Society." Greg-1 says, "What
would we say about voting rights? " Scottyg says, "And its officers have
been elected by members of the Moon Society." Greg-1 says, "Would that be
covered in a sample bylaws for chapters?" Greg-1 says, "Oh, yeah."
rhodab says, "All of the officer elected by the Moon Society?" Scottyg
says, "Greg, Candace has something she needs to ask you. Are you receiving
her whispers?" Greg-1 says, "No. I don't see any whispers." Greg-1 says,
"Oh, waitasec ... I'll check the other window." rhodab says, "Shouldn't the
chapter be able to pick it's own leaders. Also, would it have its own bank
account?" Scottyg says, "Yes to both Rhoda."
Scottyg says, "Candace, just go ahead in the clear. We'll stand by." rhodab
says, "Would it be under the same non-profit org. as the Moon Society? If
so, the Moon Society would have to report on the monies of the chapter."
Greg-1 says, "Hmm ... don't see anything, but really unless there's
something personal here, it works a lot better to just say something." cdb
says, "Greg I sent an email to you with questions about ASI/MoonSoc
renewals. It was last Sunday to grb@asi.org Did you get it?" Scottyg says,
"We addressed that earlier Rhoda. It was decided that Chapter will be
independent, not part of of a Moon Society group exemption." rhodab says,
"Sorry I was late. Then it would file for it's own 501C3?" Greg-1 says,
"Justasec, Candance ... I don't remember seeing it." dcarson says, "if
needed, if they have under 10K they don't really need to file" cdb says, "I
can resend it right now, Greg. Tell your email filters to let me through
:>)" Greg-1 says, "Heh. If you send it to grb@asi.org, it won't hit a
filter." rhodab says, "I thought that applied if they raised funds in one
fund raising event that was under $10,000, and that the funds would be
directed toward a 501C3 organization." Greg-1 says, "Nope, no messages in
here from you, Candace." Greg-1 says, "What was the subject?"
cdb says, "ASI/MoonSoc renewal document questions." rhodab says, "If they
keep the funds for themselves, and don't 'share' with the Moon Society,
then it's no issue. Sorry for repeating something that was already
covered." cdb says, "Greg. I sent the email to grb@asi.org Should I send it
somewhere else?" Scottyg says, "Rhoda, I think there is a 10,000 annual
ceiling. If you stay below that, then you don't have to file to be
tax-exempt." rhodab says, "Could be. I was just reading the rules for
filing the 1023. I could have misunderstood the meaning." Scottyg says,
"However, the IRS may not recognize donation as deductible for the donor in
that case." Greg-1 says, "Candace, that's the right place!" cdb says, "OK
Greg. I'm sending it again. Please let me know if you get it!" Greg-1 says,
"I remember that rule now, Scotty. It was one of the excuses that Boise
used to procrastinate filing for 501c3 exemption for ASI in the early
days." Greg-1 says, "Will do, Candance."
Scottyg says, "Excuse me. Its $5,000 annual. (I have the rules in front of
me.)" cdb says, "AS soon as I find out if Greg has my email, I'll need to
leave the meeting. So...G'night folks. See ya." Scottyg says, "(Rhoda - see
page 15 of PUB 557.)" rhodab says, "Bye Candace"
rhodab says, "I don't have it in front of me right now, Scotty. I was going
over it last week. " rhodab says, "The organization I was working with does
raise over $10,00 at one event. And has multiple fund-raising event. So..."
Scottyg says, "Organizations Not Required to File Form 1023.....Any
organization (other than a private foundation) normally having annual gross
receipts of not more that $5000..." Scottyg says, "than even"
Greg-1 says, "Form 1023 is the tax return for an organization?" rhodab
says, "The application"
Scottyg says, "Form 1023 is the application for exempt status." rhodab
says, "The return is a 990"
rhodab says, "Then the chapter would not be expected to contribute
financially toward the Moon Society?" Greg-1 says, "OIC"
Scottyg says, "That's correct Rhoda."
rhodab says, "hmmm"
Greg-1 says, "Off hand, I would expect it to be the other way around, with
the Moon Society returning a portion of the members' dues to chapters."
Scottyg says, "Jim has prepared a set of proposed rules. See
http://www.moonsociety.org/chapters/chptrules.html" Scottyg says, "We have
revised par. 5, but otherwise it stands." Greg-1 says, "Candace, yes, I
received your email." Scottyg says, "Greg, that might be a problem if the
chapter isn't 501c3." cdb says, "Thanks Greg. G'night All!"
dcarson says, "we can donate money to projects though that meet the
societires purposes" Scottyg says, "It vaguely conflicts with the "None of
the income of the non-profit may inure to the benefit of its members"
rule." cdb has disconnected.
Greg-1 says, "Scotty, yeah, that's been haunting me. " Greg-1 says, "It's
one of the arguments for making the chapters a real part of the Moon
Society, instead of independent affiliates that are recognized as
"chapters"." dcarson says, "so we have to give it to specific projets like
research, outreach, educatin etc." Scottyg says, "If the Chapter is
non-profit, then anythig given to it by the parent is subject to the same
rule. But if not, the chapter could hand the money over to its members."
Greg-1 says, "I think that would be a different issue, Dana." Greg-1 says,
"NSS has a policy, for example, where if a chapter recruits a new member,
that chapter gets $15." dcarson says, "instead of giving money to a chapter
in general we give it to projects the chapter is doing I mean" Greg-1 says,
"Yeah, if we do a revenue-sharing gig, then it can only be for 501c3's or
for real chapters." Scottyg says, "Ah, that falls under a different rule I
think. Thats a payment for a service rendered." Greg-1 says, "Of course,
we're an international organization, so that raises a whole new can of
worm.s" Greg-1 says, "worms."
Greg-1 says, "Oh, this is getting too complicated for my tired, old brain."
dcarson says, "I don't think we need to decide now, we can always say that
money can go only to 501C3ed chapters as needed" rhodab says, "A lot easier
to have the chapters a part of the overall organization. Then all you have
to worry about is the 990 reporting of monies" The housekeeper arrives to
cart cdb off to bed. rhodab says, "Plus, you have more control over
activities than if they are a separate, independent organization." Scottyg
says, "Look at
http://www.moonsociety.org/organizing-documents/articles-of-incorporation.html
Article IV" Scottyg says, "That language is verbatim from the PUB 557
recommendations." Greg-1 says, "Damn, I hate these style sheets." Greg-1
says, "It would be more work, but do we need to have the parent
organization approve articles of inc for chapters?" Greg-1 says, "Or is it
sufficient to have 5 members in one spot who say 'we want to be a
chapter'?" Scottyg says, "Rhoda, the main thing that worries me about group
exemptions is getting Chapters to file their annual reports in a timely
manner." rhodab says, "That's always a problem. Plus the accounting and
providing reporting of accounts so the 'parent' org. can file the 990
timely. However, transferring funds to the chapter would not violate the
rules in Article IV that I can see, since they would be merely transferring
funds from one account to another because the chapter would be part of the
parent org." rhodab doesn't have a clue what she just said!!! :0) Scottyg
says, "If the child is part of a group, transferring funds either direction
is no problem. An independent child is the case I was think of." Greg-1
says, "Rhoda, what you just said would be applicable if the chapter were
part of the parent." rhodab says, "Right!"
Greg-1 says, "But if it's an independent organization then the Moon Society
sending money to the chapter would not be just transferring funds within
the organization." rhodab says, "Right again!"
rhodab says, "Whew!!"
Greg-1 says, "Aw fooey. Y'know, I'm not sure we're ready to say that
chapters should be independent organizations." Scottyg says, "There are
significant advantages to group exemption." Scottyg says, "The disadvantage
is, we have to exercise tighter control over Chapter activities." Greg-1
says, "Yeah. A lot more work."
rhodab thinks children always are!
Greg-1 says, "But if we start out with chapters as independent
organizations, we'll never be able to fix it later." Greg-1 says, "Good
analogy, Rhoda."
Scottyg says, "That includes...The manner in which funds are
used...Reporting requirements...Legal liability for Chapter actions.
Probably others I can't think of." rhodab says, "Insurance"
Greg-1 says, "Oh, golly."
Greg-1 says, "We just don't have the resources to deal with a huge
organization." Scottyg says, "This is not a decision to be made lightly."
rhodab says, "Scotty has nothing to do between 3 a.m. and 5 a.m.! :0)"
rhodab says, "He could handle it!!!"
rhodab grins.
dcarson says, "since Rhoda has demonstratd that she has experience in this
area she should be creful hat she says :-)" Greg-1 says, "Yeah, I'm
thinking it's not something we want to just railroad through even if we're
railroading ourselves." rhodab says, "Did I say anything?"
Greg-1 says, "I keep thinking, though, that we first started puzzling over
this one when Scotty brought it up at the first Las Vegas convention."
rhodab says, "Well, I'm about to crash! " Greg-1 says, "Yeah, me too."
Scottyg says, "Rhoda, can I bring up one thing before you go?" dcarson
says, "kick this around in email over the next 2 weeks?" rhodab says,
"Oops!"
rhodab says, "Sure"
Greg-1 says, "I can't think of a way to get past that issue, so let's hear
what Scotty has in mind. :)" Scottyg says, "Tim and I have exchanged emails
about the membership incentives program." Scottyg says, "He is asking that
Lunar Traders be allowed to continue supplying the incentives. I think its
just the bulk of his business." Scottyg says, "I responded that we might
consider an arrangement in which we issue him P.O.'s to ship specific
quantities of posters and bumper stickers to listed individuals, he
performs the service and invoices us for work completed, and we pay the
bill." Greg-1 says, "Is this the least-cost way to provide the service to
our members?" rhodab says, "Will Tim provide the posters and bumper
stickers?" Scottyg says, "But I asked him to bring a proposal to tonight's
meeting for us to discuss. He was here, but had to leave before we got that
far, so its only a concept at this point." Greg-1 says, "Or ... are there
considerations other than cost that are based on the purposes of the
organization?" Greg-1 says, "(And can we get Tim to use return-address
labels that have the correct address on them?)" rhodab says, "My first
thought is that the membership services all be together." Scottyg says,
"Tim is an asset in many ways, and I don't want to burn him. But he's a
poor businessman and too much of this has been handled poorly in the past.
However, the arrangement I mentioned is a businesslike arrangement in my
view. As to cost effectiveness, that depends on his proposal." rhodab says,
"I guess we need to hear his proposal. Could he e-mail it?" rhodab says,
"Or place it in the private directory?" Scottyg says, "That's where it was
left. I'll ask him to do that." Scottyg says, "You also missed some
discussion with Jim Burk." Scottyg says, "He was here earlier. Turns out he
has taken a new job which explains his "disappearance"" rhodab says, "Ahh"
Scottyg says, "But he promised to get some of the work needed on the
registration system done this weekend." Greg-1 says, "I'd say that if Tim
can come up with a cost-effective proposal and we're confident he can
provide the service we need, then it really makes lots of sense to have
Lunar Traders ship the goodies." Scottyg says, "Also, the bank has turned
down our second request on a merchant account, so we're going the
third-party route." rhodab says, "Yuk!"
Scottyg says, "I'll be gathering info, aimed at a decision at our next
meeting." rhodab says, "Which is?"
rhodab says, "when?"
Scottyg says, "Two weeks from now.....Oct 25" rhodab says, "Whadda you
know! I have it on my calendar already!!!" Scottyg says, "The Leadership
Council meets on the 2nd and last Wed of the month." Scottyg says, "Which
means every other week except months with 5 Wednesdays." Scottyg says,
"Then we skip one."
Scottyg says, "(One week.)"
Scottyg says, "I think that happens in November." Scottyg says, "Yep.
Checked my calendar." rhodab says, "Okay. I'm outta here!"
Scottyg says, "Ok, g'night!"
rhodab has disconnected.
Scottyg says, "Well, shall we wind this up?" Greg-1 says, "Duh ... have we
done what we came to do?" Greg-1 says, "Ha. Apparently so!"
Scottyg says, "Most of it."
Greg-1 says, "Oh, FYI, according the CNN poll, Bush pretty much shellacked
Gore in the debate tonight." Scottyg says, "Good!"
Scottyg says, "I think Bush has done a good job as Gov of Texas." Greg-1
says, "Although folks said Gore was the more articulate of the two. That
didn't seem to be a big factor." Greg-1 says, "Yup, I was happy with GW as
governor of Texas." Greg-1 says, "And on that note, I think I'll try to get
some sleep." dcarson says, "gnight all"
dcarson goes home.
The housekeeper arrives to cart rhodab off to bed. Greg-1 says, "Aha! I
found it!"
Greg-1 says, "YIPPPPEEEEEEE!"
Scottyg says, "I thought that would get a smile or two." Greg-1 says, "I
think I'll print this out and FRAME it!" Greg-1 says, "Or not. :)"
Scottyg says, "LOL."
Greg-1 says, "Someone might ask why it's hanging on the wall." Scottyg
says, "Tape it to the inside of your desk drawer." Greg-1 says, "Yeah."
Greg-1 says, "Now we can get into doing something with this shiny toy. I
guess the next step is to decide just what that is." Scottyg says, "Anyway,
I thought that would be a good way to end the day!" Greg-1 says, "Yup! Sure
is! Hooray!"
Greg-1 says, "(I've also discovered where my TLRC EXEC in box went to.)"
Scottyg says, "A good thing to know."
Greg-1 says, "Yeah, for some reason it's under "companies" instead of under
"TLRC"." Greg-1 says, "Silly me."
Scottyg says, "Well, it IS a company, albeit a special one...." Greg-1
says, "So the filter is working correctly. It's just that the mailbox is in
the wrong place." Greg-1 says, "Welp, I'd better be skipping merrily off to
bed." Greg-1 says, "G'night guys!"
Scottyg says, "Does moving the mailbox require the filter to change?"
Greg-1 says, "Yeah, I think I'll need to fix the filter if I move the box.
We'll see." Greg-1 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Greg-1. Scottyg says, "Ok, G'night. I'm
outta here too." Greg has disconnected.
Scottyg has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to cart Greg off to bed. The housekeeper arrives to
cart Scottyg off to bed. Scottyg has arrived.

-- End log: Thursday, October 12, 2000 12:04:31 am ASI Meeting Server time--