-- Start log: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 9:53:35 pm ASI Meeting Server time --

TimCadell says, "Anyone besides Dana or Scotty here?" irs says, "me"
dcarson says, "they're around, just quiet" TimCadell says, "Hey, Ian, how's
it going?" Severy is here in spirit, if not in body irs says, "I'm here,
which is a surprise. Things have been.... busy. I leave it at that in open
forum." TimCadell says, "Well, failing getting much response, I'll get
Norman in here and at least introduce him to the forum." TimCadell says,
"Ian, things that interesting? Sorry to hear it if things are going badly."
TimCadell says, "I'm enjoying the latest issue of AM!" rhodab arrives.
TimCadell says, "Hey, Rhoda!"
Severy says, "Hi, Rhoda!"
rhodab says, "Hey Tim! Sorry I'm late"
irs says, "Thanks, Tim. No, things aren't that bad. But busy, and swamped,
and, well, I'm sure it's not much more than any of the rest of you have
been suffering." Scottyg says, "Ian, you letter with the last quarter
license fee statement sounded encouraging." irs says, "Yeah, things are
moving along. It looks like I'll be putting out the first 10,000 piece
direct mail campaign in the next few weeks." Scottyg says, "Hi Rhoda!"
irs says, "Hi Rhoda."
rhodab says, "Hi everyone."
TimCadell says, "Looks like Norman is bowing out for tonight." TimCadell
says, "Great, Ian!"
Scottyg says, "Rhoda - you have experience with filing 990's?" rhodab says,
"I just finished one tonight!!! :(" Scottyg says, "I'll be doing ours next
week. Any gotcha's?" rhodab says, "Gee, I don't think so. Maybe the hours
that directors have contributed! :0)" irs says, "Tim, been meaning to
e-mail you. The Post Office has decided to attack international trade, so
we need to raise the rates you're charging for non-US subscriptions. If you
can get three rates in, the new rates are $15 US, $20 Canada, $30 elsewhere
(that's for 4 issues)." TimCadell says, "Yeah, I knew about them raising
the rates. Geez, is that what it's costing you now?" irs says, "An average
of $6 per copy airmail costs." Scottyg says, "Ack. That's gonna be a
problem for us too. We are running at a loss on international MMM's." irs
says, "So even at $30, minus your cut, I'm barely making cost on foreign
subs." rhodab says, "Scotty, if you have 'designed' your categories in
QuickBooks (or whatever you use) to match the 990 requirements, it's not
that hard." dcarson says, "we'll have to raise rates a lot and give
overseas an option of not getting the newsletter" Scottyg says, "Peter has
been pressing for some kind of increase to cover that." irs says, "Oh yeah.
I also heard a rumor that the plan is to delete the cheapest international
rate every now and again, until it's a uniform high rate." TimCadell says,
"Okay, it's changed."
Scottyg says, "Rhoda, I used QuickBooks template for a non-profit. I hope
they got it right. :=)" rhodab says, "Well, not always. But, you'll find
out quick enough and can change them for the next year." Scottyg says,
"J.E. time."
rhodab says, "Luckily we don't have many expenses/income. :)" Greg says,
"Since we're the Moon Society tonight, let's deal with the overseas MMM
mailing question before it gets past crisis mode." TimCadell says, "I
wonder why they're raising their rates so high." rhodab says, "They tie
everything together - the 990, and 941 (if you have employees)." Greg says,
"What options do we have to simply raising the rate to exhorbitant levels
for overseas members?" irs says, "Because they can."
TimCadell says, "Are they still cheaper than the competition?" dcarson
says, "they want more money, people overseas don't vote" irs says, "I don't
see any option, Greg, unless we're willing to turn the whole thing into
electronic format and offer it that way." Scottyg says, "I think the first
step is to negotiate with Peter. Then we can decide how to present it to
the membership." TimCadell says, "People in this country that sell things
overseas do vote, though." dcarson says, "and make sure we do point the
overseas people at the no newsletter option, we have it but its obscure."
irs says, "Ask Peter to find out what it's going to cost to airmail the
overseas copies, and then present it to the membership as a fait accomplit:
"The USPS raised our rates, so this dues increase precisely matches it.""
irs says, "Voting doesn't matter. The USPS isn't elected. As it is, the
Postal Rate Commission rejected about half the requests for rate increases
this time around." Scottyg says, "No 941's Rhoda, so we don't have to deal
with that." irs says, "Basically, we're screwed, because unless we want to
work a deal with FedEx or someone like that -- and on the single copies,
their rates are gonna be even higher -- USPS is a monopoly and our only
option." rhodab says, "Then it should be a snap, Scotty. You can do a
search on the web and find copies of filed 990s. I found many for
non-profit orchestras. " TimCadell says, "BTW, the James Busby in the
membership, is that Jim Busby of the NSS?" Scottyg says, "That's how I see
it Ian. We need numbers to work with. And I agree on the no-MMM option.
Electronic publication is problematic." Greg says, "James Busby of the
Space Frontier Foundation." rhodab says, "I don't see an increase as a
show-stopper." irs says, "Oh, there may be another option, but I don't
think we're big enough yet for it to matter: find someone in Europe who is
willing to publish a European edition. Even if it's simply e-mail it to him
and have him print and mail locally. But somehow, I don't think it's going
to be a very big savings." TimCadell says, "Oh, that's right, Greg. Thanks.
I'm looking for a number for him to return a call." Greg says, "So, we need
to have 3 rates: U.S., Canada, and Overseas?" dcarson says, "or mail a
bundle to a remailer, but that needs more then we do I think also"
TimCadell says, "I think so, too."
Scottyg says, "Ok, so who negotiates with Peter?" Greg says, "Tim, look up
the Space Frontier Foundation in L.A. It's probably on their web site at
http://www.space-frontier.org/" TimCadell says, "I think I did look, but
I'll try again, Greg." Greg says, "I nominate the Treasurer to negotiate
with Peter. I'm too wimpy to do this." rhodab says, "uh huh!"
Greg says, "That's the only number I have for him, Tim, and it's in my
machine at work." irs says, "Tell me which three or five non-US countries
have the greatest numbers of members. I'll see what I can come up with."
Scottyg says, "Tim, I have an email address, but not a phone number unless
its in the membership database." irs says, "No matter what we come decide
with Peter, though, we're gonna have to eat the increased postage until
they have to renew." irs says, "delete that "come""
Scottyg says, "Yep, but we'll survive that. Ok, so is the sense of this
meeting that I deal with Peter?" rhodab says, "How do we calculate the
price? Do we take into consideration any postal rate increases + a
fudge-factor?" irs says, "That's what I was going to do." TimCadell says,
"There's only an address in the database. I could use his email address,
Scotty. Thanks." TimCadell says, "Yup, Scotty."
dcarson says, "before I copy fliers, the corrct snailmail address is po
940825 in Plano, correct?" irs says, "Before you copy the fliers, Dana,
change the overseas price." dcarson [to ]: what?
irs says, "Oh, I'm giving a talk this weekend in New Jersey. Doubt there'll
be any non-US there, though." Scottyg says, "Yes Dana."
irs says, "I would rough guess that rates have gone up about $2 per copy,
maybe $3. That means a minimum increase in dues of $24 per year." dcarson
says, "I don't think we currently have an overseas proce" TimCadell says,
"I don't think so, either." irs says, "If it's $35 US, then it has to be a
minimum of $60 overseas. We can explain that the entire difference is due
to postage for the newsletter, simply because it's published in the States
(play it up that way, since we're "international")." dcarson says, "OK,
we're currently eating the cost of overseas postage but this is be way to
much, will see if I can use Acrobat at cyberteams and add an overseas
price. Everyone agree?" TimCadell says, "Yes."
dcarson says, "and add the no newsletter option" dcarson says, "$35 US and
canada, $60 overseas, $25 no newsletter?" TimCadell says, "We ought to talk
to Peter about offering an electronic version by paid subscription. I'd be
very willing to get an electronic version, although I'd like to see the
cost reduced some." irs says, "It'll be cost-effective, but I really think
the "no-newsletter" option will lead to a lot of one-year-only members."
dcarson says, "I'm putting these out at Hopkins this weekend, I'll skip it
and we can decide what to do to make it reasonable for overseas." Scottyg
says, "Acrobat is a good option, but Peter uses a Mac. Is that a problem?"
dcarson says, "we can't eat the costs, but $60 is way high." dcarson says,
"They have acrobat for mac, he'd have to buy a copy probably" TimCadell
says, "Yes, Acrobat wouldn't be bad." TimCadell says, "Not necessarily, if
he could save it in a recognized format, we could convert it to Acrobat
once a month on a PC, and mail him back the results." dcarson says, "and we
are (slowly) putting old one on line" Greg says, "I believe that the Moon
Society does not offer a no-newsletter option. " Greg says, "But since we
grandfathered in the ASI no-newsletter folks, I suppose we ought to."
dcarson says, "if overseas will cost $60 we have to offer some option"
dcarson says, "from what I understand surface mail is a lottery if it ever
arrives overseas" Greg says, "I'm more worried about the multiple
subscriptions to MMM if we don't offer a no-newsletter option." dcarson
says, "that also"
Greg says, "Yes, I've heard lots of horror stories about overseas post
offices." Scottyg says, "How about a European member to remail?" dcarson
says, "and more then one member in a family needs the no newsletter option"
Greg says, "Aw darn, I'm going to have to bail out. See ya later folks!"
irs says, "Surface mail is NOT an option for overseas subscribers: far more
copies fail to arrive than do arrive, and then they have to be replaced
anyway, so it's not a savings." Greg has disconnected.
dcarson says, "whats the cost of sending a box of newsletters vs seperate?"
TimCadell says, "I would hope it's cheaper, but we could use another
carrier is larger packages are cheaper that way." irs says, "A little bit
less on our end. But when the box arrives, they have to be separately
enveloped and remailed. Basically, not much savings, unless they're all
domestic (that is, only one country) over there." TimCadell says, "That
might be one advantage of creating chapters in other countries. Lower your
cost of membership by increasing the number of people in your area
interested, and pass out the MMMs at the meetings." TimCadell says, "It
might get people to the meetings, as well." Scottyg says, "I would think
bulk shipping would be much cheaper if the quantity is reasonable." irs
says, "Real savings only kick in when you're up over 50 copies to a single
country." rhodab says, "We can't count on having enough volume to make bulk
shipping pay. To hard to calculate the price that way." dcarson says, "plus
you need a reliable person to recieve box and remail contents" Scottyg
says, "So international mailing within the European continent is still
expensive?" TimCadell says, "That's a good point. I wonder if the EU has
helped postage costs within the EU?" irs says, "I don't have precise
figures for that, but even domestic postage every outside the US is wicked
high. We bitch and moan about postage rates, but US first class mail is THE
cheapest domestic mail." The housekeeper arrives to cart Greg off to bed.
dcarson says, "and the most reliabel I think" dcarson says, "(unlike my
typing)"
irs says, "I don't have the data on that." TimCadell says, "I need to get
going, too. Everyone have a nice evening." Scottyg-1 has arrived.
Scottyg-1 says, "My ISP dumped me."
TimCadell has disconnected.
dcarson says, "still don't have a working cable connection, and they
charged me on the bill that just came. have to yell tomorrow." The
housekeeper arrives to cart TimCadell off to bed. Scottyg has disconnected.
Scottyg-1 says, "I sure miss my DSL line. :=(" dcarson says, "I'm sure, ask
Randall about his continuing adventures with DSL and cable." Scottyg-1
says, "I've been considering building a microwave link between my two
houses so I can get to the DSL at the other house." irs says, "Two houses?!"
dcarson says, "saw an articel online on hacking the airport card to get 20
times the range" Scottyg-1 says, "Yep. My son lives in the other house (in
town). I live out in the country...too far away from the CO for DSL." irs
says, "It sounded better without the explanation <g>." Scottyg-1 says, "I
could get wireless @ $125.00/mo. Too expensive." The housekeeper arrives to
cart Scottyg off to bed. dcarson says, "line of site for a laser link?"
Scottyg-1 says, "I do own both houses Ian. But I can't be in two places at
once, so having another house in the near vicinity isn't useful." Scottyg-1
says, "Probably not good enough line-of-sight for laser. But perhaps good
enough for 10 or 24 GHz microwave. And I work for a police radar company
that just happens to make microwave equipment on those frequencies. An I'm
a ham radio operator, licensed to use bands in those ranges." irs says,
"Sounds like fun to me."
Scottyg-1 says, "On the other hand, I really don't need to take on another
project right now." irs says, "I'm doing pretty good for my first time back
in so long, but I need to get going. Am I needed for anything else this
evening?" dcarson says, "do you nedd me to bring anything for Lunacon?"
Scottyg-1 says, "Looks like the meeting has pretty well wound down. I need
to go too. Supper is waiting for me." irs says, "Naw, I think I'm set. I'll
let you know if I think of anything." irs says, "I'm gonna get going. See
you guys next week." dcarson says, "OK see you here hopefully and see you
there" Scottyg-1 says, "G'nite Ian. Welcome back. We missed you." irs says,
"I missed you guys, too. Bye." irs has disconnected.
Scottyg-1 says, "Dana, I'll send Tim's code along to you." Scottyg-1 says,
"It will need to be tied into the mysql database that Jim Burk created from
the registration page." Scottyg-1 says, "I think Tim had it tied into his
own database." Scottyg-1 says, "Ok, I'm outta here to get supper."
Scottyg-1 says, "G'nite."
Severy says, "Time for me to head off to bed..." The housekeeper arrives to
cart irs off to bed. In a blinding flash of light, Severy vanishes into
thin air Scottyg-1 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Scottyg-1. rhodab has disconnected.

-- End log: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 11:07:51 pm ASI Meeting Server time --