-- Start log: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 9:14:30 pm ASI Meeting Server time --

Greg says, "Oh, this thing wouldn't be pressurized. It's just a prototype
to check out the concept and work out the human factors." Scottyg says,
"Well, we spend $5,000 to $10,000 to prototype electronic products. Seems
like this vehicle has to have a lot more than that in it. But it depends on
some assumptions. If "materials" means raw steel, aluminum, copper, etc,
I'll agree. But machine shops are expensive." Greg says, "Yup. I think
Boris was just estimating the cost for parts. " Greg says, "So the real
program cost might be closer to a million bucks." Scottyg says, "OTOH, you
can often build something not intended to be duplicated at much lower cost
than a production prototype." Greg says, "That's still not insurmountable
considering the size of the research grants folks get." Greg says, "Yup.
This would just a prototype." Greg says, "Form, function, human factors."
Scottyg says, "Battery powered?"
Greg says, "But it would a hell of a lot more like the final product than
that silly camping tent the Mars Society is using." Greg says, "Yes, all
electric."
Scottyg says, "Any solar assist?"
Greg says, "Sure, if we can get someone to donate solar cells. :)" Greg
says, "Otherwise, probably a gas-powered generator." Greg says, "gasoline,
that is"
Scottyg says, "They are presently around $50.00 per square foot for
domestic versions. Don't know about space-rated." Scottyg says, "Anyone
done any work on specs?" Greg says, "Boris wrote up specs for the actual
spacecraft. I promised to review those for him, and then he can start
working up specs on the prototype." Greg says, "Or ... we use the specs for
the spacecraft bolted to a request for a grant to develop the detailed
specs for the prototype." Greg says, "I think it would be riotously good
fun." Greg says, "And just might have a chance of getting funded." Scottyg
says, "Yep, sounds like fun."
Scottyg says, "Well, on to business...." Greg says, "Yeah, how's business?"
Scottyg says, "My news of the day is that the materials for the ballot
mailoutare all at the printer." Greg says, "Yay!"
Scottyg says, "The letter should be ready tomorrow, and Jennifer can begin
the addressing & folding." Greg says, "Is she going to use mailing labels
or just print out individual letters?" Scottyg says, "The envelopes won't
arrive till late next wee, so I would guess the mailing will happen in
about a week and a half." Scottyg says, "wee=week."
Scottyg says, "The letter has a space to print the member name & address.
We are doing an Access report to print those from the membership database."
Scottyg says, "The rest of the letter is pre-printed." Scottyg says,
"Printing individual letters would not be cost effective." Scottyg says,
"Too much time and printer ink." Scottyg says, "The good news is...It will
cost us a little less than my initial numbers, and we get more too."
Scottyg says, "Office Depot will print 1000 of each envelope for less than
the original quote for only 500." dcarson says, "good"
Scottyg says, "So we'll have 500+ envelopes left for next time." Greg says,
"Hooray! Saving money is good." Scottyg says, "And Office Depot is also
lower than Kinkos on copying the letter." Scottyg says, "Wanna see the
final letter, or wait till it comes in the mail?" Greg says, "Hmm ... since
it's being printed, it's probably too late to nitpick it, eh?" Greg says,
"So it might be prudent to just wait until it comes in the mail and then be
Totally Impressed." Scottyg says, "Uh-huh. But you supplied the text. I
made one little correction plus changed the date." Scottyg says, "And
pasted it into the Moon Society letterhead." Greg says, "Yeah, that should
work great. " Greg says, "Not that the original letter was all that great,
but at least it had the words marching in the right order." Greg says, "Hey
Randall, what does the Mars Society do when they want to have an election?"
Scottyg says, "Yep, except there was a word missing. i added it." Greg
says, "Or do they have elections?" Greg says, "Ah, a typical typo for me."
Severy says, "I'm not sure what they do about elections" Greg says,
"Economy of wordage."
Greg says, "Yeah, nebbermind. I think that was one of the reasons the board
members quit. No elections." Severy says, "But you might be interested to
know that they are going through the same soul-searching about trying to
grow membership that we have been..." Greg says, "I figured that,
especially after hearing that their membership figures were just a trifle
inflated." Greg says, "But only by an order of magnitude or so." Severy
says, "Some of the Mars Society chapters hold elections, the local D.C.
chapter is in crisis right now because the previously elected chapter
president, who everyone wants to vote out of office, is refusing to hold
elections" Greg says, "Oh my."
Scottyg says, "The last sentence of the 1st paragraph was originally: The
tentative date and time the business meeting are Saturday," Scottyg says,
"November 3, 2001 at 10:00 AM in Las Vegas, Nevada." Greg says, "Why do
they want him out of office? Because he doesn't do anything?" Greg says,
"Heh. Yeah, there do seem to be some missing words in that sentence."
Scottyg says, "I leave it as an exercise for the reader to find the missing
word...." Severy says, "Because he's managed to piss off just about
everyone in the chapter. Also, he's refused to give up the passwords to the
chapter web site and refuses to make requested changes" Greg says, "Oh,
here it is. It looks like it fell off my computer and rolled behind my
desk. But I can't quite make out what the missing word was because it's
covered with dust bunnies." Scottyg says, "Greg, do you know the area code
for Bellevue, WA?" Greg says, "Oops. Sounds like an ego war is going on."
Greg says, "I think it's 206, like Seattle." Scottyg says, "425 perhaps?"
Greg says, "Oh, yeah, could be. They split the area code a few years ago."
Scottyg says, "I'm looking at something handwritten and having trouble
reading this person's writing." Greg says, "There's GOTTA be a web site to
look that up really fast. Probably www.areacode.com." Severy says,
"Bellevue is 425"
Severy says, "I used http://www.primeris.com/fonefind/" Scottyg says,
"Thanks! Saved me digging for it." Greg says, "Sunny beach. There really
*is* a www.areacode.com!" Greg says, "Except it bounces to oingo.com, which
appears to be some kind of search engine." Scottyg says, "Well, Tim & Dana
and I (with a little help from Randall) have been cranking on the
Transorbital job." Scottyg says, "Thats kept me snowed under the last few
days." Greg says, "But at least we're doing something!" Greg says, "The
only news from this side of the house is that one of the guys is sniping at
the numbers for movie revenues again." Greg says, "So far, that discussion
hasn't produced anything but unsupported skepticism, but he did promise to
take a couple weeks and put together something coherent." Greg says, "We'll
see."
Scottyg says, "What brought on the flurry about a security mail-list?" Greg
says, "I asked folks to stop yammering about the terrorist thing on
artemis-list." Greg says, "Whereupon, artemis-list appears to have died a
sudden death." Greg says, "It might just be my negative frame of mind, but
I'm beginning to (once again) think that the mailing lists are a complete
waste of time, at least from the standpoint of getting anybody to do
anything." Greg says, "There are only a couple of guys who'll even take 30
seconds to do a web search to look something up." Scottyg says, "Yeah, I
can't understand people. Who do they think IS gonna do things?" Greg says,
"On the other hand, artemis-list does play a role as a socializing forum
for a few of the folks, some of whom actually Do Things once in a while."
Scottyg says, "The proverbial "them"?"
Greg says, "Heh. Everybody waits for Somebody Else to do something." Greg
says, "In truth, folks would probably do things if I got on the phone and
called them, and asked them to." Severy says, "If nothing else, it serves
as a forum for sending out CyberTeams press releases, as I just did ;-)"
Greg says, "Yeah, that too!"
Greg says, "It's not spam, it's C y b e r T e a m s ! :)" Severy chuckles.
Greg says, "I think I'm just whining because I can't even get people to
look up a furshlugginer URL." Greg says, "That picture from Boris is an
example. I twice asked folks to comment on it, and gave the URL. It would
take a few seconds to click the link and look at da picture, but not a
single person responded to either of those queries." Scottyg says, "Another
interesting thing I've noted. Since July 27, there have been 7 people who
chose the mail-in option in the on-line database. So far i have not
received a single one." Greg says, "Mail-in option? On-line database?
Single one?" Scottyg says, "The on-line registration system" Greg says,
"Oh. Meaning they have not mailed a check." Scottyg says, "mail-in
membership application or renewal." Scottyg says, "Right."
Greg says, "Maybe it's time to send queries to their email addresses?" Greg
says, "Or, horror of horrors, we have the wrong address posted somewhere?"
Scottyg says, "Perhaps that would be a good idea. The information in the
database is mostly new stuff they provided." Scottyg says, "Oh...Wrong
address for us. Not likely." Scottyg says, "The registration system walks
you all the way through to a printable form with all your info filled in.
That has the address on it. I'll bet everything i own that THAT address
isn't wrong." Greg says, "Might it be someone up to some mischief?" Scottyg
says, "Could be, although it looks like 7 mischiefs" Greg says, "Could be
one perpetrator, though. Do we store I.P. information?" Scottyg says,
"Nope. But this guy is highly persistent and inventive if its one person.
The entries are random dates scattered over nearly two months, and I can't
see ant common thread." Scottyg says, "There is one statistical anomoly.
Over half of them are from outside the USA." Scottyg says, "And that could
partially explain the slow mail-in." Scottyg says, "Usually when people are
spoofing us, its fairly obvious. These aren't like that." Greg says, "Yeah.
It's probably just the slow mail system." Greg says, "I would think
internationals would prefer to use bank cards." Greg says, "Have you tried
querying them via email?" Scottyg says, "No, not yet. Many of them haven't
aged enough to get excited about." Scottyg says, "But they all supplied
email addresses." Greg says, "I was just thinking that folks might be
wondering why they haven't heard anything from the Moon Society after the
joined." Scottyg says, "Possibly. I have had one, some months ago, that
looked on but was probably bogus." Scottyg says, "There was some minor
error, and when I inquired via email, the mail bounced." Greg says, "Yeah,
that's a clue."
Greg says, "Have we considered using Pay Pal?" Greg says, "I don't know if
that would help get members but it's another way to transfer money."
Scottyg says, "Nope. Should we? I don't know anyone who uses it." Greg
says, "I tried it for the first time a couple of days ago. It seems like a
pretty neat service." Greg says, "And they don't mind handling small bits
of money." Greg says, "I spent a whopping $3.50 to subscribe to a web site.
One of the Sims sites was having trouble paying their bills, so they opened
a parallel pay site with a subscription service." Scottyg says, "So, how's
it work?"
Scottyg says, "(Pay Pal, not the sims)" Greg says, "The member would have
to get a Paypal account. Then there would be a link from our site to click
on that would take him to paypal, and he'd approve the purchase." Greg
says, "Then paypal would pay our account." Greg says, "Paypal can charge a
credit card or your checking account." Greg says, "I didn't look into
merchant accounts." Greg says, "But heck, if the 8th Deadly Sim uses it for
$3.50 transactions, we should be OK." Greg says, "Signing up for the
account seems to be pretty tightly controlled -- you need a legitimate
credit card number, and then a confirmation by email." Greg says, "I asked
around some newsgroups, and everyone who has used them has had a positive
experience, so it looks like they're legit." Greg says, "Heck, paypal might
even work for CyberTeams." Scottyg says, "I've heard of it before. Tim was
considering using it on lunar Traders." Scottyg says, "But you'r the first
person who has told me they use it to make payments." Scottyg says, "I
guess it could be a good option for someone that doesn't have a credit
card, or doesn't want to use it." Scottyg says, "I can't see the point of
passing a credit card through Pay Pal unless the merchant doesn't accept
credit cards." Scottyg says, "Well, my wife just got home. She is taking a
class on Wed evenings so we eat late. I guess I should go see about
supper...." Greg says, "Sounds likea good plan to me!" Scottyg says, "So if
no one has any other business????" Scottyg says, "Hearing a deafening
silence, I'll see ya'll next week!" Greg says, "Have a good one, Scotty!"
Scottyg says, "Oh...Anyone heard any more from Ian?" Scottyg says, "Was the
attack near him?" Greg says, "I saw some notes from him, but nothing of
substance." Scottyg says, "I got a message about Kit's parents being ill
and they delayed their wedding, but thats all." Greg says, "Yeah, that's
the status. He said he'd check in on a web site that NY fandom set up."
Greg says, "And that's all I've heard from him." Greg says, "When it
rains..."
Scottyg says, "the sky falls in with it." Scottyg says, "I still can't
believe the way those buildings collapsed. That really surprised me."
dcarson says, "my recent schedule has been, worldcon, melinda in hospital,
WTC attack, father in law needing stiches from fall" Scottyg says, "Makes
me wonder if building those kind of buildings is a good idea. (Not just
because of terrorists)" dcarson says, "between her earlier problem with her
hip and the recent arithimia problem Melinda hasn't worked a full wek since
late July" Scottyg says, "Sorry to hear that Dana. I didn't know she was
having problems." dcarson says, "her hips have been bad for years, flared
up in July, the other week she was feeilg bad with a sinus infection and
the doctor noticed the heartbeat was fast and irregular, she call a
cardiologist and he said meet him at the hospital" dcarson says, "they
don't know what caused it (apparently the usual result with this) so shes
on meds to reduce the risk from now on" Greg says, "Bummer!"
Scottyg says, "Sometimes that happens due to illness or stress and never
occurs again." dcarson says, "she is not happy with her health" dcarson
says, "this wasn't the first time, the others were very brief and they
though stress, this one lasted for more than a day" dcarson says, "thought"
Scottyg says, "Probably best to treat it then." dcarson says, "she'll be on
an anti-clotting med forever basically since the episodes can cause clots
and strokes, also a med that reduces the liklyhood of attacks" Scottyg
says, "Be careful about the medications. I've known a lot of people who
were worse off on medications than without." dcarson says, "we plan on it"
Scottyg says, "Mostly, be very certain that any doctor who prescribes
something new knows everything she is already taking. I know some real
horror stories about that." Scottyg says, "It becomes a real problem with
older people." dcarson says, "these are the first permanent meds other than
tylenol for the hips" dcarson says, "but yes made sure they all won't react
with each other" dcarson says, "due the asmatha Gwen at 17 is already on 4
meds every day" Scottyg says, "I remember one person in particular, who
just kept getting worse, and changing doctors." Scottyg says, "Each new
doctor added something to the meds already being taken, and they were
causing all sorts of problems. Finally, one doctor started questioning
about the meds, stopped them all, and that was the cure." dcarson says, "we
keep an eye on her father for that problem, hes getting old enough for that
to be a problem" dcarson says, "Melinda is also ordering one of the med
alert necklaces since shs on an anti-clotting drug in case of accident"
Scottyg says, "Yep, thats a good idea." dcarson says, "want them to know
that you are at a higher risk of bleeding" Scottyg says, "Well, tell her I
said "get better soon"" dcarson says, "will do"
Scottyg says, "And with that, I need to go eat. See ya'll next week."
Scottyg has disconnected.

-- End log: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 10:54:04 pm ASI Meeting Server time --