-- Start log: Wednesday, February 5, 2003 9:08:27 pm ASI Meeting Server time -- DaveW-1 says, "highly variable as usual" DaveW-1 says, "mostly wet and chilly" kokhmmm says, "Here too/ not much snow. But last week was great because I wasn't here - on the beach in St. Pete." MikeD says, "Sorry Peter, I can't find any certificates but I'm sure there are aome" john-r arrives. dcarson arrives. irs arrives. irs says, "Oops. Wrong following. Hi y'all." john-r says, "Hi Ian and All" dcarson says, "helo" MikeD says, "Hi everybody" kokhmmm says, "Geg, I propose making up a temporary one for St. Louis, to be replaced later. They are anxious to have it, and justly proud of having grown so fast. Hi Dana" MikeD says, "How many do they have?" kokhmmm says, "Hi, Ian" kokhmmm says, "St., Louis has six." Greg-1 says, "Peter, so draft something up and let everybody take a look." MikeD says, "What the heck is David doing? Get him to tell us" Greg-1 says, "The wording on the certificate is important, too." Greg-1 says, "I would have sworn we worked that out some time in the past, perhaps for ASI." kokhmmm says, "Will do (draft certificate)" Arthur arrives. Arthur reads the meeting agenda Severy has arrived. kokhmmm says, "Hi, Arthur" Arthur says, "Hi Peter" kokhmmm says, "Greetings, Randall" Severy says, "Hi, everyone! Sorry I'm late, I had some ISP problems on this end..." Arthur says, "I'm going to be in and out for a few minutes here - bedtime for kids..." irs says, "ISP, yeah. West Wing, try (I'm watching Angel and taping West Wing, 'cause Dad's still out of town)." irs reads the meeting agenda MikeD says, "Peter, St. Louis may have six people, but only 2 of them are in the team according to Team Dir." Greg-1 says, "Only 2 of them are members of the Moon Society?" kokhmmm says, "Mike, I'll check with them. According to Dave Dietzler, they are all MoonSoc members" MikeD says, "But are they *current* members?" dcarson says, "may not be on the team while still being members" MikeD says, "They do actually have one extra subscribed to the list" MikeD says, "Christine Nobbe" DaveW-1 says, "has anyone reported trouble with the online registration page?" kokhmmm says, "Keith Wetzel, Dave Dietzler, Dave Heck, Burt Sharpe, Chris Noble, Christie Dudley is the list I have for St. Louis" Greg-1 says, "Let's slow down just a bit... has the board of directors officially recognized the St. Louis chapter?" kokhmmm says, "If we can confirm that 5 of the above six are current members, we should confirm them." Greg-1 says, "Yup, for sure." MikeD says, "I can confirm David Heck is current" Greg-1 says, "I don't see how they could be current Moon Society members and not be listed in Team Director. That's our official membership database." MikeD says, "Davis Dietzler is current" MikeD says, "I'm looking" dcarson says, "I see everyone but Noble" MikeD says, "Nobbe" Greg-1 says, "There you have it!" dcarson says, "ther is a Nobbe in St Lois" Greg-1 says, "Somebody check the bylaws to see what other requirements we have for local chapters. I think there needs to be a designated honcho." kokhmmm says, "David Heck has been elected president. Let me check on other officers." MikeD says, "And she's current." Greg-1 says, "I'll be AFK for a couple of minutes." MikeD says, "Quite a few of them expire in March/April but we could work on that" john-r notes that he has NOT rec notice of about to laspe membership john-r notes - no snail mail or e-mail MikeD says, "Peter, I'd really appreciate it if David could encourage all those people to join the team in Team Dir. Of course they may not all have their Team Dir passwords." kokhmmm says, "Dave Dietzler is St. Louis treasurer. They are incorporating as a 501c3" MikeD says, "Dang!" MikeD says, "Have they asked Scotty for help?" kokhmmm says, "They are working on a mission stqatement and already have some outreach events under their belt." Arthur says, "Wow" kokhmmm says, "I'm anxious to make them official and hold them up as a role model for others to follow." dcarson says, "gotta do something for them then, need to encourage thme" Severy says, "I'm going to be away from the keyboard for a little while (I'm multitasking heavily in real life as well at the moment), can someone lead a discussion on the web site updates for the Shuttle memorium?" Arthur says, "who is supposed to send out notices of about-to-expire memberships? Because it definitely doesn't seem to be happening..." MikeD says, "JohnR has volunteered for that" john-r says, "anyone know where Amy or Scottt is? and why Michael has nort joinedI :)" john-r says, "Whats that MikeD?" MikeD says, "Well, Arthur, some of the notices should go out by email, but Randall can't implement that until I have all the teams updated" Severy says, "Amy said she would be a little late" Arthur says, "Well, some of this stuff really shouldn't wait for anything else..." MikeD says, "Amy said something about being late." kokhmmm says, "Shuttle Memorial. Can be short and sweet. We are all saddened by the tragic loss of life. We call for the continuation of the manned space program, continued support for the ISS, and the opening of the space frontier to mankind in general, in their memory. Something like that, maybe with a picture." Severy says, "Team Director will be sending out monthly reminders of team memberships, and those reminders will include warnings about soon-to-expire memberships" Severy says, "But I can't turn on those reminders until the team overhaul is finished" MikeD says, "Actually, I've come to the realization that i need a deputy for a couple of weeks" Arthur says, "Ah" MikeD says, "Or 2 or 3 deputies for that matter" irs says, "Shuttle memorial announcement:" Arthur says, "Seeing the overwhelming response, I'll volunteer Mike" Severy says, "I'm visiting family and am logged in from my laptop sitting on the kitchen counter, so I'm going to be in and out all evening" MikeD says, "Thanks Arthur" MikeD says, "Waht's sitting on the counter? You or the laptop randall?" john-r says, "LOL" irs says, "The Moon Society, Artemis Society International, The Lunar Resources Company, and the entire Artemis Project family mourn the loss of the Space Shuttle Columbia and her gallant crew. We offer our condolences to their families and the entire NASA organization. [paragraph break]" Greg-1 says, "Scotty handles the notices. Or rather, Jennefir Day does. She works for us." Arthur says, "she actually gets paid?" irs says, "As they and their fellow explorers continually show the sense of wonder inherent in us all, we hope to continue the blossoming of humanity into space."" Greg-1 says, "Yup." Arthur says, "Well, in that case, I'll feel freer to bother her. Does anybody have her email address?" Arthur says, "free-er?" Arthur says, "Ian and Peter: I think short is good. They both sound fine" Greg-1 says, "Yeah, Scotty does." Greg-1 says, "Yes, short is best." Greg-1 says, "That's great, Ian." Greg-1 says, "Is there a clever way to avoid using the word "entire" twice in the first paragraph?" irs says, "Thanks, Greg. Those words are already up on the LRCPubs site, and Tim has something on Lunar Traders. This is something we need to post now, because we won't be noticed for having, but we will be noticed for not having it." Greg-1 says, "Scotty is on vacation at the moment, so getting in touch with him is spotty." irs says, "Ooh, good catch, Greg. Change the first entire to "whole", as in "... and the whole Artemis Project family..."" MikeD says, "you could also say complete" MikeD says, "Nah, maybe not" dcarson says, "OK, John you do the MoonSociety and I'll do ASi and TLRC?" kokhmmm says, "I will print the statement in MMM." irs says, "Oh, Dana. For the other two organizations, change the opening order so that the page it's posted on is listed first." dcarson says, "gotcah" MikeD says, "Arthur, one of the main things I need help with is actually figuring out what I have already done and what still needs to be done" Greg-1 says, "OK, I'm working on the front page." kokhmmm says, "Next item?" john-r has disconnected. john-r has connected. john-r says, "imy sys had a disconnect - so i missed from when arthur asked if jenifer got paid - bummer on missing the words" Greg-1 says, " http://www.moonsociety.org/ is republished. Can someone check it?" kokhmmm says, "John, you must have missed where we elected you to be in charge of whatever no one else is in charge of.:-)" john-r says, "TY Peter :)" Greg-1 says, "Yes. Jennefir gets paid." Greg-1 says, "Jennifer." Arthur says, "very nice, thanks Greg" kokhmmm says, "Greg, the page looks good (not artistic, but ...)" dcarson says, "ok asi done" Greg-1 says, "Thanks, Dana." Arthur says, "Jennifer does seem to be doing things, but it's spotty - I'm sure she has good reasons for the delays, but I'd like to be able to ask her directly about them..." Greg-1 says, "Thanks, Arthur. Ian, Nancy says to tell you the words are very nice." john-r says, "Nice Greg - are those your words and Ians? or whos?" kokhmmm says, "Good, Dana" Greg-1 says, "Ian wrote the text." irs says, "Thanks, Nancy." john-r says, "Looks good to me" irs says, "Words is what I do." kokhmmm says, "How long do we leave it up? I'll monitor the other space organizations and advise everyone when they take their statements down, or drop them from the main page." kokhmmm says, "Ian, you are a wordsmith" With a sparkle of transporter light, saavik appears saavik says, "sorry i'm late!!!" irs says, "Moon Society page looks good. ASI page needs a line or something between the new text and the "12 men have walked on the Moon"." Arthur says, "Welcome Amy!" saavik says, "tried to call randall but his phone wasn't working" irs says, "Thanks, Peter. That's a good timing judge." john-r says, "good point Peter- we need to keep open - like a eternal flame- someplace in the web sote" Arthur says, "he's with family somewhere" Arthur reads the meeting agenda Greg-1 says, "Randall is not at home, Amy." Arthur says, "Ok, next item is MMM contract?" dcarson says, "tlrc updated, WSD is way old on that one" Greg-1 says, "Yeah, we need to bug somebody from CyberTeams about that, Dana. :)" kokhmmm says, "I have some points about the suggested contract that Scotty circulated. But Scotty is not here. I can air my concerns if anyone wants." irs says, "Same problem on tlrc, Dana. Can you stick in a rule between the new text and what's already on the page? A dividing line." saavik says, "his was the only phone number that i had :-)" Greg-1 says, "Maybe
" Greg-1 says, "I think it might work a little better if the text is not centered." MikeD says, "You could always have called me at 011353777744325" MikeD says, "011353877744325 actually" Greg-1 says, "Where the heck is the agenda?" MikeD reads the meeting agenda Arthur says, "By the way, there were 11 new registrations and 4 renewals through the web site since the beginning of the year." MikeD says, "Maybe clones can't read agenda" dcarson says, "ok lines added" Greg-1 reads the meeting agenda Greg-1 says, "Yes, they can! :)" irs says, "ASI is fine like that." Arthur says, "including our first member from Cyprus (as far as I know) - George Hadjyc..." Severy says, "Hi, Amy!" john-r says, "Greg saee http://www.moonsociety.org/private/leaders/agenda.html" saavik says, "Hi Randall - your voicemail isn't working at home" Severy says, "I don't get any cell-phone reception where I am, that's why you couldn't reach me" saavik says, "oh! was it your cell I was calling? odd" saavik says, "it just gave me a verizon error :-)" Severy says, "What number did you try?" saavik says, "um, well, the reason Iw as late is that my cell broke today and your number is in the old one... I'll go dig it out :-) I have a new one now :-)" DaveW-1 says, "speaking of renewals I just tried to renew with the mailed out ver. of mmm and it gave me an error" Arthur says, "Huh? Where was that?" saavik wonders what happens if both of her cells are turned on for the same number Severy says, "I do need to upgrade the TLRC WSD installation one of these days, I'll try to do that soon" MikeD says, "Nasty things can happen then Amy" Arthur says, "Dave - what URL were you at?" saavik reads the meeting agenda DaveW-1 says, "just a sec i will get back to it" MikeD says, "One thing that could happen is that they block your number" saavik says, "so where are we on the list and what did I miss?" MikeD says, "We're somewhere around MMM" DaveW-1 says, " https://www.moonsociety.org/register/register2.php3" kokhmmm says, "Amy, we took care of the Columbia memorial, and chapter charter questions" Arthur says, "And what was the error?" saavik says, "ahh ok" saavik says, "so what is up next?" DaveW-1 says, "if i take the defaults when I click on "go to step 3" i get an error that says. You have not selected and transaction. please select at least on transaction to continue" Arthur says, "hmmm. " kokhmmm says, "On MMM, Scotty is not here, but settling the question is urgent." DaveW-1 says, "it lets me go forward if I donate or pick another option" john-r says, "When did the hardcopy MMM price go up?? i just renewed last nite and it was 35 sam as electronic- is DaveWW at and old page???" saavik says, "so how do we go settle it without scotty?" john-r says, "Any one know if Scotty is coming tonight???" MikeD says, "He's on vacation" saavik says, "that sounds like a no" MikeD says, "One of those AFK vacations" Arthur says, "Dave I see that too. I'll try to fix it here right now..." DaveW-1 says, "ok kool" Arthur says, "By the way, the MMM contract is ok with me. Can we just accept it? Were changes needed?" MikeD says, "Be careful I have to renew soon" irs says, "What's "AFK"?" MikeD says, "Away From Keyboard" irs says, "Ah. Silly me." Greg-1 says, "I also added the same text to http://moonsims.asi.org/ and http://www.simshost.com/." saavik says, "oh!" kokhmmm says, "Yes, I am concerned about some things. 3. Services to be provided by LRS requires monthly publication. There may be a problem here. Our numbers are declining and if they go below 200 domestic, then I must either drastically cut the size of MMM to 8-10 pages or publish bi-monthly." Greg-1 says, "Scotty is on an AFP vacation. "Away from Plano."" irs says, "No, the contract as presented was not acceptable. It's a minor change I e-mailed Scotty about, but I don't know if it was introduced at his end or LRS's, so I'd be a little happier waiting to hear from him about it (admittedly, if he e-mailed me back last night, his response is waiting in another window)." irs says, "That would entail modifying the contract, Peter. Shouldn't we try to be a little optimistic in this draft?" kokhmmm says, "It also requires 90 days notice. So if accepted, I will give 90 days notice when we hit the 200 point that we are going to shorter publication at first class and may still need an increase in payment as we lose economies of scale in printing and postage." john-r notes he renewed with paper copy MMM irs says, "That sounds logical, Peter." kokhmmm says, "We can be optimistic if you want Ian, but the fact is our numbers are going downhill at a clip that will put us over the precipice within the year." irs says, "Nevertheless, I'd be much happier with monthly publication while we can get it." irs says, "Greg, I can't see to get to moonsims.asi.org, but simshost.com gives me a black box in the middle with no text in it." irs says, "Also, I'm waiting for a rule at the bottom of the new text on tlrc.com." irs says, "rule as in line or border." kokhmmm says, "I also want everyone's opinion on how to handle that eventuality. Smaller monthly publication, or same size bi-monthly. Even with your advice we'll have to take a hard nose look at the dollars and cent sbefore a decision on which way to go. I would prefer to keep things ans they are, but we have to slow the erosion of hardcopy numbers to keep it as it is." irs says, "Got to moonsims.asi.org:looks good." dcarson says, "I think I'd prefer bimonthly" MikeD says, "Yeah, moonsims loks good" MikeD says, "So does simshost.com" Greg-1 says, "Thanks, Mike." kokhmmm says, "Geting the statement up everywhere proved pretty painless, thanks to Ian." Arthur says, "Ok, Dave, register2.php3 is updated. Should be working (I moved some form elements around but forgot to change a javascript check)." DaveW-1 says, "ok great..." dcarson says, "those of us that are more fluent in C thne english are grateful to him" irs says, "tlrc.com looks good now. simshost is still showing me a black box in the middle with nothing in it." MikeD says, "What browser are you using Ian?" kokhmmm says, "I see text in the simshost box ok" Arthur says, "I'll vote bimonthly too. Ad astra is bimonthly. It would be a little disappointing to have to do that after all these years though." irs says, "Netscape Navigator 7, I think. On a Windows 95 machine." MikeD says, "Hmm, that could be due to the browser, let me check it in Netscape, I have it looking good in MSIE" Arthur says, "simshost looks good in Apple Safari" kokhmmm says, "Bimonthly would be a bitter pill for me personally. I wanted to reach 20th anniv. of monthly publication. If only we could turn the slide around. That may mean setting the default at hardcopy rather than at electronic." john-r says, "what about http://www.lrcpubs.com for the columbia message?" Arthur says, "The default is now hardcopy, for US subscribers" Arthur says, "And Canadian" kokhmmm says, "Thanks, Arthur" MikeD says, "OK, that's a Netscape problem Greg, the text is not visible in Netscape 4.8 on my machine either." irs says, "I put it up yesterday, John." Arthur says, "unfortunately the bug Dave saw (but now fixed) may have lost us a few hardcopy..." Arthur says, "but that was only for the last month" Greg-1 says, "Must be the text color. Or the table cell background color." john-r says, "Ian - now i see it - sorry - i was blind for a moment" MikeD says, "Yes if i mark the text i can read it" MikeD says, "Seems to be white on white" saavik says, "so how do we turn the numbers around?" Arthur says, "Well, we need to get those reminders out to renew, for one thing!" john-r says, "Yesterday when i renewed - hard copy was the defaulet- i am loast as to problem that dave is having" irs says, "Don't know if I'm trying to see it, Greg, but I think the main page background is white, and the box background might be a little more cream." Arthur says, "Which seems to depend on getting the teams straightened out - which means getting Mike helpers..." irs says, "Ah, yep. White on white, I think." Arthur says, "Mike, where can we get started?" kokhmmm says, "projects, publicity, local outreach, buttonholing, lots of ways to grow. Gift subscriptions and memberships. Library subscriptions at a rate lower than membership. all increase the numbers." MikeD says, "I'll have a chat with you about that a bit later Arthur, but one of the main things is figuring out where I am right now. I've actually lost track of what I've done and what still needs to be done" Arthur says, "Can you summarize the main areas that need to be handled with the teams?" MikeD says, "Yes I can but it will take me a little while to put it together. Would an email tomorrow be ok?" Greg-1 says, "Could someone check Moon Sims with Netscape now?" john-r says, "MikeD - Please cc to me on the team status - ok" irs says, "moonsims is fine. It's simshost I'm having trouble with." MikeD says, "Greg, it was simshost" Greg-1 says, "Yeah. Ian said it was Moon Sims, too." MikeD says, "Yes John, I can CC you" Greg-1 says, "Moon Sims is easier to update because I have WSD Pro there." Arthur says, "tomorrow's ok." irs says, "Had trouble getting into moonsims earlier. Now I can." Greg-1 says, "http://moonsims.asi.org/ or http://www.moonsims.com/" MikeD says, "The most important thing is someone to go thru the Mailing List support in Help Dir and filter out the crap. Then check to see which ones I've done and of those what parts are incomplete" irs says, "The first." irs says, "Both look the same." MikeD says, "http://www.simshost.com/ still shows as a blank empty box" MikeD says, "In Netscape that is" MikeD says, "Methinks Greg has inadvertently written some MSHTML" Greg-1 says, "Yup, that's because I had only updated Moon Sims." MikeD says, "OK, now it's good" Greg-1 says, "Ian, try reloading the Moon Sims site." Greg-1 says, "Yeah. Explorer was ignoring the font color; Netscape did what I was telling it to." saavik says, "haven't seen any answers...." MikeD [to ]: what? Arthur reads the meeting agenda MikeD says, "Answers to what?" saavik [to increasing]: peter's numbers' MikeD says, "Auto say is a curse isn't it" irs says, "Sorry for the delay: coughing fit. Anyway, that did it, Greg." Greg-1 says, "Thanks, Ian." Arthur says, "aside from increasing renewals, keeping the web sites alive should help" MikeD says, "I don't think anyone has an answer to increasing Peter's numbers without also addressing the increasing of our own numbers" Severy says, "FYI, I just found an e-mail from Scotty this afternoon: "We are on vacation and are having company tonight, so I' not sure how much of the meeting I'll be able to make - I'll do the best I can."" kokhmmm says, "I think LRS will offer its direct subscribers a deal - if they renew and send in a gift subscription, they can take $6 off the total ($30 instead of $36) but that doesn't help the Moon Society, and our intent is not to divert members from MoonSoc to LRS direct. But we have to grow the total numbers somehow." Arthur says, "we get a lot of new drop-in members somehow..." MikeD says, "Arthur, our problem isn't getting members, it's keeping them" Severy says, "Once we stop losing members we can focus on outreach efforts to increase our membership" kokhmmm says, "Last month's (1/25) mmm hardcopy request from MoonSoc was 146, of which 136 was domestic." Arthur says, "i agree - getting the teams active will help a lot" MikeD says, "I believe Jennifer has processed about 45 renewals and new memberships since November." john-r says, "what is the price per year for MMM at its very best rate?" kokhmmm says, "We can also reenergize those interested in the Reference mission as it is clear we have to look harder at options that do not depend on the shuttle" MikeD says, "The teams are important, but they're only going to be as active as their membership" MikeD says, "Very good point Peter" john-r says, "The More that have faith in the shuttle - the quicker we keep in space" MikeD says, "The more that push to replace the shuttle, the longer we stay in space" john-r says, "but we need to stay there- a leave of absense lengthens the long run" MikeD says, "It's a 30 year old design that has been flying for 22 years, the replacement should have been in production already" MikeD says, "In fact the replacement should already be in service" john-r says, "but thats another matter for another time" MikeD says, "That's the problem, it's been another matter for another time for 22 years." kokhmmm says, "a new shuttle cannot be built so hurrying up the orbital space plane becomes a priority for the gov and they know this. But that might not help us. We need affordable options. We have to consider all of them, choose the best at the time when we are ready." john-r says, "what is the best MMM price per year?" Arthur says, "on the #'s - that's a total of 60 for 3 months (Nov-Jan) - is membership 4x that?" john-r says, "i am getting sys lag again" MikeD says, "How many of that 60 were renewals?" kokhmmm says, "Joh, look on the last page. Cheapest way to get MMM is through the group offering lowest membership rate. But pushing that doesn't help Moon Society whose dues are higher. LRS cost is currently 1.02 and we are asking 1.00 even." Arthur says, "4 of 15 in January" MikeD says, "So or new members outnumber our renewals by almost 4:1" Michael arrives. Michael says, "doh!" Arthur says, "3:1" MikeD says, "Oops" Michael is such a looser.... kokhmmm says, "That ratio has to cause worry, because it may mean that many are not renewing. " Arthur says, "what's today's excuse Michael?" Michael says, "metal shop class....." Arthur reads the meeting agenda Michael reads the meeting agenda MikeD says, "One would have to take an average over the course of the year, I'm sure the ratio varies from month to month" Arthur says, "yup" john-r says, "i could ck my mail - so the lag seems out east" kokhmmm says, "Priority is "conversion" of first year members into first time renewals. After that, losses go way down." Arthur says, "we could do a lot better on renewals though. One thing - the people that do renew tend to donate quite a bit too." MikeD says, "Your mail is checked directly with your ISP John, lag is generally between your ISP and the rest of the net" saavik says, "that is good" Arthur says, "even john :)" Michael says, "so, did we accomplish anything tonight?" kokhmmm says, "We are offering a prize (Artemis poster) for renewals, but no one know that unless they go to renew. I could advertise this in MMM." Michael says, "s/we/you because I was a slack ass and didn't show up ontime..." MikeD says, "One point to note from my discussion with Dale a couple of weeks ago is that for non US members, renewing is actually a bit of a pain. Most of them have to go to a bank and purchase a cashiers check" dcarson says, "anything we can besides the fact that we take credit cards to make that easier?" Arthur says, "credit cards work - as I said, we had a new reg from Cyprus" kokhmmm says, "We could ask Scotty if it would be safe to quote a fixed price in Euros. Maybe that would help many overseas." MikeD says, "Credit cards work but not as many people have them in Europe. And debit cards don't seem to exist here yet" Michael says, "paypal?" Arthur says, "Michael - we did update websaites with Columbia memorials" john-r says, "Peter- i thought the reneweal was a bumber sticker- the poster came with the first time membership" MikeD says, "Peter, I wouldn't quote a fixed price in Euros unless you are going to process everything for those members from over here" Arthur says, "Michael - also the MMM contract is waiting on scotty for some changes" MikeD says, "I'm not sure if PayPal can be configured to work with a European bank account Michael" Michael says, "well, we're taking credit cards, right? That should be sufficient...." kokhmmm says, "John, I'll check. You are right. Maybe we need to make it more attractive to renew. Like a set of a dozen assorted back issues of MMM or a book." Arthur says, "and we decide St Louis was an official chapter noiw!" Arthur says, "hmm left hand typing..." MikeD says, "Many US members only have debit cards. Debit cards are not as plentiful over here, and neither are credit cards" john-r says, "Arthur are you sure on the st louis chapter - unless it happened during my disconnect" MikeD says, "But European members doesn't help the MMM numbers for hardcopy" dcarson says, "ok people look for ideas for an attractive but cheap promo got renewel" kokhmmm says, "John, we checked them all by name. All in Team Director." john-r says, "Peter - pack issues would be nice BTW IAN what about back issues of Artemis Mag?" MikeD says, "John, I think it happened before your first connect" john-r says, "When i came in the 1st time Greg asked if the board had approved the chapter-then there were comments on other charter needs per the by laws" dcarson says, "pay pal says it is in 39 countries, maybe a note on the signup page that they can do it via paypal?" kokhmmm says, "I am thinking of donating an Artemis Project Exhibit to any chapter that makes it official, as an incentive to other Outposts to work in that direction. That will help numbers and productivity and otreach etc." saavik says, "sounds like all good ideas" dcarson says, "some spare posters to them to use for promo purposes might be good also, should discuss in email probably" MikeD says, "PayPal Now Available in Euros and Pounds" MikeD says, " http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_ir-release&rid=347675" Arthur says, "other requirements for chapters: need two elected officers, one responsible for finances, and need to select one as representative on chapters council" MikeD says, "Both excellent ideas" kokhmmm says, "Arthur, will copy that to St. Louis. No problemo." Arthur says, "Also chapters need to submit their bylaws to the chapters council for approval (within 1 month). " Arthur says, "See http://www.moonsociety.org/chapters/chapterRules.html" john-r says, "So the St Louis is still in the getting the paper work done stage" MikeD says, "Is there a draft of suggested bylaws?" kokhmmm says, "Ouch. I have boilerplate ready so that should be no problem on bylaws. They can customize later and submit revisions when they do." john-r says, "I think the chapters council team has been removed - and only the chapters team is left" Arthur says, "I believe the chapters council is you (Peter) and chapter representatives..." Arthur says, "Hmmm, " MikeD says, "Could we put up a link for suggested Chapter Bylaws" kokhmmm says, "Not oo many chapters to have representatives!" john-r says, "i think there is a std bylaws - but i think it is asi based" saavik says, "bedtime...." saavik has disconnected. MikeD says, "That was short and sweet" john-r says, "swhoos - she be gone" kokhmmm says, "I will put boilerplate bylaws on front burner." john-r says, "we will have to e-mail her- by my clock she left 3 min early :)" Arthur says, "On the rest of the agenda - I think we should discuss the "state of the society update" and the web site. " MikeD says, "I believe there is only one Chapters team. All the others were deemed to be superfluous as they were all equally inactive" Arthur says, "The rest probably should wait with all the people who are out" kokhmmm says, "State of the Society Annual Reports. Did everyone get the proposal I emailed to the leaders? Any comments" john-r says, "Greg is the prisent - what are his thoughts and time avail to produce part of it ? i got the leaders list e-mail" Greg-1 says, "State of the Society Annual Reports?" john-r says, "president - oops" Greg-1 says, "*blank stare*" Arthur says, "I assume the calendar year is our fiscal year? " Greg-1 says, "Yes" irs <- blink> Greg-1 says, "What would be a State of the Society Annual Report?" kokhmmm says, "Greg, I'll re-email the proposal to you. Was a divide and conquer idea, with several people responsible for portions: me for chapters, Ian for publicity, etc., etc. so that the burden is not on one person and so it gets done and published every year." Arthur says, "So a report as close as possible to the end of the last fiscal year makes sense, right?" irs says, "Texas, I think." john-r says, "Peter - i believe it needs done - BUT we have to push to get the teams item done- then the web page - then roll into the annual reports - the help dir seems to be almost caught up" irs says, "Ah, that e-mail. Yeah, it was in amongst 1104 new messages waiting when I got back from Florida. Had to be back-burnered for a few days." The housekeeper arrives to cart saavik off to bed. Greg-1 says, "What would be the benefit of doing this?" Greg-1 says, "I can see a gazillion reasons not to do it, but no obvious benefit." kokhmmm says, "Letting the members know that the Society is making progress, that it is worth renewing one's membership., that we are not dead!" Arthur says, "To prove we actually exist as an organization..." MikeD says, "Are we an *organizaion*?" Arthur says, "There may also be IRS requirements. " Greg-1 says, "I'd strongly recommend we concentrate on doing something, rather than reporting on the nothing we are doing." irs says, "We should be proving that by doing things; not by saying we're doing things." john-r says, "IMHO - its needed to keep us active in the leadership - and to let the members know - someone is doing something - i have 3 new e-mais in web supporty- remarking on the issue of nothing new in the last yr or 2 - note - they are not aware of the asi whats new page" Greg-1 says, "When we are doing things, then it will be obvious what should be in the report." Greg-1 says, "Ian put it much more succinctly." john-r says, "but its a good time to be uptodate on membership and how many joined-renewed- did not renew ect " Arthur says, "Listen, I have no clear picture of (1) how many members we currently have, (2) how much money we have in the bank, or (3) what our budget is for next year. " john-r says, "good point" Greg-1 says, "Arthur, you'd need a treasurer's report for that. Scotty prepares those, but he's not available tongiht." john-r says, "Leto is agin active" Arthur says, "Sure" Greg-1 says, "tonight, too." john-r says, "team that is" kokhmmm says, "We could all work on annual reports for our area of responsibility and then decide what portion of this is fit for print. But one way or another, we all need to know where we are and where we are headed." Arthur says, "Though the budget isn't just something Scotty pulls out of a hat I assume - we should have some goals for the year" MikeD says, "Scotty has mentioned the bank balance a couple of times recently" irs says, "Then perhaps the Leto Team can write up a report of what it's doing for MMM." john-r says, "and i am trying to lead them to get a model for Ian's events" Greg-1 says, "I don't think it's a good idea to publish those reports, however. That turns out to be a net negative because Those Who Report On The Nothing They Are Doing will compare themselves to the Moon Society and draw invalid conclusions." irs says, "That'd be wonderful, John." dcarson says, "304 current members" john-r says, "that would mean, i have 3 things to write - Leto, Artemis on the space grp, and Daves Bot" irs says, "That is NOT a number I want to see published ANYWHERE. And that's the official word of the Director of Publicity." Greg-1 says, "Which, Ian? The total membership?" Arthur says, "Well, at least something written that the board of directors can look at to track things. We can decide what to make public" dcarson says, "yep but we do need to pay attention internally" Michael says, "that just means we need to redefine either "current" or "members"" irs says, "The public response to "How large is your membership?" is "A few thousand on all but one of the continents." Everyone got that?" irs says, "Internally, yes, we need to pay attention. Externally, if we're not putting on a happy face, we're dead." john-r says, "is that called a spin :)" MikeD says, "I believe 'Yup' is the answer to that" Michael says, "yes.... and there's nothing wrong with it, so nyea...." irs says, "Don't push it, guys. It's necessary if this organization is to survive." kokhmmm says, "I took it for granted that what we would publish would be the positive only." john-r says, "when one counts the cyber teams, the mag TO??, and other participtants then a few thou is maybe not fa off" MikeD says, "That would be a one page report for 2002" irs says, "And Peter, if MMM does have to go to bi-monthly, the reason absolutely cannot be "too few subscribers to support monthly publication". Just as, when Omni went "electronic" they did not say they could no longer afford to publish on paper: they spun it as an imporvement." john-r says, "Last yr rthue Amon and ?? went to ISDC, Leto published for ISDC" Arthur says, "Although, any member can see how many members there are just by logging in to teamdir - it's not a huge secret if you're willing to sit there and count..." john-r says, "i whis i could type and read at the same time" john-r says, "wish" MikeD says, "I wish tkMOO would support text to speech" Arthur says, "Ok, what areas do we want reports from? We'll run it by Ian before making public..." john-r says, "Ian went to 10 or more events and spoke of Artemis Project" Arthur says, "Did Peter have a list? I seem to have missed his email." irs says, "Arthur, let it go. The public number is "a few thousand on six continents (the member on Antarctica ended her sojourn there)". The private number is what it is, and we'll work on increasing it." MikeD says, "I'm with Ian on this one" irs says, "(I meant about the members seeing the numbers.)" kokhmmm says, "Chapters, website improvements, publicity, overall progress on commercial road back to the Moon (includes other outfits and enterprises), new projects, etc." irs says, "I'll vet whatever we have to make sure we look good." Michael suggests an update on the current state of the sims stuff, if you can say anything of consequence about it, that is... john-r says, "i would say on the next agenda- if we can get 10 *18.00=180 dollars approved- we set up complimatary mailings to space grant people-..." Michael says, "oh... and something about TO...." john-r says, "I just found out Challenger center in Brownsburg IN(1 hr away) has a moon landing project for the kids" kokhmmm says, "If we ask our members to say how many people are in their households, we can count them all in our numbers :-( so much for honesty" john-r says, "Yes TO in the events page" john-r says, "or year at a glance" john-r says, "sys lag-bummer" Arthur says, "You have a Challenger center there? We're interested in getting one here - let me know if they're interested in talking about it!" MikeD says, "One could actually extend that and make the membership a 'per household' membership" john-r says, "Talking about what Arthur??" Arthur says, "how we get started!" john-r will be right back. Arthur says, "I found Peters' email - the first 2 parts on membership it sounds like we want to suppress? Nevertheless, I think the board should get something with that, and financial numbers as well. Maybe a separate board report." MikeD says, "four o clock in the morning and it looks like it's goint to be a another sleepless night" john-r says, "http://challenger.brownsburg.k12.in.us/moon.html " john-r says, "at this point - i should go to bed also-tho i am wired and may not sleep well-lots to do for space" john-r says, ":)" Arthur says, "I'll accept peter's assignment for me there - july should work" john-r says, "http://challenger.org " john-r says, "i accept Peters position on web site" kokhmmm has disconnected. kokhmmm has connected. john-r says, "wb" MikeD says, "Who's going to be team leader for the Conference Team?" john-r says, "so can we call it a nite-then open discussion?" irs reads the meeting agenda Arthur says, "only other item i thought was web site - want to comment john?" kokhmmm says, "computer froze, had to reboot" john-r says, "Seems like Peter or Arthur was confrence team leader" john-r says, "or me- i forget" Arthur says, "peter, john and i accepted our reporting assignments" john-r says, "on the web page" kokhmmm says, "Okay, Arthur" john-r says, "its close-Randall needs to add the team stuff-Dana needs to make the black dots white on the news stuff" john-r says, "i have e-mailed with chippro on the images, and " john-r says, "and - i think that is it" john-r says, "i did remove the choose a destination with the image abackground" kokhmmm says, "Goodnight all" john-r says, "nite Peter" dcarson says, "gnight" kokhmmm has disconnected. Arthur says, "ok - i guess the big thing is getting the teams then?" john-r says, "yup" The housekeeper arrives to cart kokhmmm off to bed. MikeD says, "I'm trying to ork on it but every time I login to the MOO I get sidetracked somehow" Arthur says, "Mike, I'll take a look at helpdir tonight or tomorrow" Arthur says, "what are the main problems there?" john-r says, "i never side track ya- and there is gold in them there hills" john-r says, "and i get struck by lighting too" MikeD says, "The main problems are actually that I can't get thru the thing quick enough" john-r says, "Also - ON The web page- foe anything we do not like - it can be changed in another 6 monts if we have the time" MikeD says, "Also there may be messages in the closed section that relate to messages in the open section" Arthur says, "ok" Arthur says, "is that wgere email bounces are going?" john-r says, "MikeD - on the e-mail to arthure - any chance we can keep the e-mail in the leaders list?" Arthur says, "rt hand only now..." john-r says, "then we all have a chance to help" dcarson says, "I lost a hard drive so I lost some email, if you're waiting for a response and its been a while remind me and resend" john-r says, "brb - have to let the dog out" irs says, "I'm gonna have to get going; still haven't finished my e-mail, and I have to sleep off this cold." MikeD says, "I'm actually kind of stuck for information. What's needed is someone with a high speed connection to go thru all the mailing list help dir stuffand produce a nice small table of what was to be done. Then go thru the teams and see what has actually been done. You could actually use the tables I put up on the leaders page" john-r says, "Nite Ian" MikeD says, "Are you feeding a baby Arthur?" MikeD says, "nite Ian" dcarson says, "gnight Ian" irs says, "Good night, guys." irs has disconnected. Arthur says, "holding one (with occasional spit-up)" john-r says, "Dana-Bummer on the hard drive" Michael says, "hey guys, http://www.rocketforge.org/ <-- my blog, if you care....." dcarson says, "its been annoying" MikeD says, "It was agreed on November 20 to merge the 4 conference teams. But nobody seems to have taken up the challenge of being leader" Arthur says, "hmmm, michael?" MikeD says, "Michael has art-biz, does he want more? He does attend quite a few conferences" Arthur says, "dave?" The housekeeper arrives to cart irs off to bed. Arthur says, "ian?" john-r says, "yes Ian :)" Arthur says, "well i think we should keep at least the one remaining team" john-r says, "He is gone- so hes the best pick" MikeD says, "I an goes to quite a few too, but there is a question of whether he wants to be Team Leader of a Conference Team" MikeD says, "We'll actually set up just a Conference Team" Arthur says, "you know, put me in for now - we can get someone else later, but we need the team" MikeD says, "Also, I believe the organization for ISDC is a ****ing disaster" Arthur says, "ah, what have you heard there?" Arthur says, "i'm planning to go this year" Michael says, "conferences but not the ones that I can or should advertise Artemis/MS at..." Greg-1 heads for the rack. Greg-1 says, "G'night folks!" dcarson says, "gnight" Greg-1 has disconnected. The housekeeper arrives to remove Greg-1. MikeD says, "Pat Montour is basically saddled with doing the whole thing herself where actually she was only supposed to be the local liason. The con was supposed to be organized by HQ but the person dropped out and Pat only found out a couple of weeks ago. Dale told me" john-r says, "Mike - to speed up teams- how about keeping all open, and i and arthur can write the little explaination pages- saying there is no lead- who wants to volteer?" john-r says, "lag warning" dcarson says, "ther is a reason why only one chapter has survived hosting a ISDC" MikeD says, "And that is?" dcarson says, "whats happening with this one for example" MikeD says, "Is there anyone in the Bay Area who can help her" Arthur says, "i contacted steve duirst" Arthur says, "who had some other suggestions" Arthur says, "durst" Arthur says, "he's in palo alto" MikeD says, "Dana, the only person who is doing anything is the local liason, HQ dropped Pat in it when the main organizer quit. (I forget the reason)" MikeD says, "Pat Montour is in Palo Alto too" john-r says, "are you sayin NSS HQ is not involved in the ISDC Planning?" dcarson says, "hosting a con puts a lot of stress on the org if they aren't used to it" MikeD says, "It wasn't supposed to be organized by the chapter, it was supposed to be organized by HQ. This was the first time and it's failed." dcarson says, "a semi joke with worldcon telling how planning is going by seeing if the con com is geting divorced or married to other members of the committie" Michael says, "so is ISDC still on?" Severy says, "John, you don't want a bunch of leaderless teams with members milling around wondering who is in charge" Michael says, "I was thinking about going...." john-r says, "Randall- it was a thought" Severy says, "If someone volunteers to lead a team, then you re-open the team, but don't leave a leaderless team open waiting for a leader" Severy says, "That is only asking for trouble" Arthur says, "Brian Chase (new NSS exec dir) seems ok - and people semm energized right now - things should improve..." MikeD says, "ISDC is still on but she hadn't even found out who her track speakers are last i heard" Michael says, "also going to go to the Return to the Moon thing in July...." Arthur says, "moon is scheduled for Saturday - maybe late Friday too" MikeD says, "Sh*** the con is in less than 3 months time" Arthur says, "last year tracks weren't fional until May anyway" Arthur says, "final" Michael says, "shite.... I'll have to go directly from Vienna to Houston for the return to the moon thing....." Arthur says, "4 months" dcarson says, "if someone here can put together stuff for a track it might go over well " Michael says, "but at least I'll only have to pay for half of my flight...." MikeD says, "I also need a banner I can use on our conference site" john-r says, "a banner??" Arthur says, "and Buzz Aldrin was supposed to be keynote speaker, but nobody had asked him!" Arthur says, "(last year)" john-r says, "so is Gene Meyers confirmed for this yr??" Arthur says, "I talked to Pat last week - I'm supposedly helping out with it" MikeD says, "Oh, they have no idea about who the keynotes will be" MikeD says, "Arthur, I may actually be in the Bay Area for that, it all depends on a bunch of things like jobs and tax refunds and such" Arthur says, "Great!" Arthur says, "Did you ever run into Steve Durst with space age pubs?" dcarson says, "I probably won't make ISDC, sae weekend as Balticon and friends of ours are GOHs" john-r says, "the clock is clseo to 12 and the pumpkin begomes a frog after midnite" john-r says, "nite all" john-r has disconnected. Arthur says, "Mike, you know about http://www.nsschapters.org/isdc/2003/ ?" Michael says, "yea... just found it a few minuts ago...." Michael says, "its on the 3rd page of links if you search for ISDN ongoogle..." MikeD says, "I should have met Steve, but I never did manage to make it to an actual Bay Area Moon Society meeting. When they had them they were always on a Wednesday and about an hours commute from me and getting ther for 7pm when you only finish work at 8pm was kind of tough" Michael says, "cya in about 7 hours or so.... g'nite!" Arthur says, "too bad" Arthur says, "Yeah, I should be getting to bed too." dcarson says, "gnight all" MikeD says, "But WHY?" MikeD says, "OK, goodnight people" dcarson says, "why what?" Arthur says, "Well, Mike, I'll see where I can get with the helpdir list for teams tomorrow. Can you email me any other things you think I ought to be looking at there? I expect it'll become obvious..." MikeD says, "How do I stop the recorder" -- End log: Wednesday, February 5, 2003 11:57:31 pm ASI Meeting Server time--