-- Start log: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 9:00:57 pm ASI Meeting Server time --

Severy switches places with Severy-4
john-r says, "Hi Randell"
MikeD says, "Are Dana and Michael supposed to be here?" MikeD says, "Does
someone want to go wake them?" john-r says, "Michael was awake 2 hrs ago"
MikeD says, "A lt can happen in 2 hours" john-r says, "really :)"
irs has arrived.
irs says, "I'll get the hang of this navigation stuff... sometime." MikeD
says, "You could just @join somebody" john-r says, "Hi Ian"
irs says, "Didn't know who was here. I usually @join, but that got me into
the wrong place. Whatever." MikeD says, "Or, since you really only come
here for meetings, you could set this room as your home" Nancy arrives.
Michael arrives.
Michael reads the meeting agenda
Michael says, "wave at everyone"
MikeD says, "Has it changed?"
MikeD waves at Greg-1, Scottyg-1, john-r, DaveW-1, Severy-4, irs, Nancy,
and Michael. Michael says, "yea... that too"
MikeD says, "that's wave all"
MikeD wonders if there is a 'poke all' command MikeD pokes at Greg-1,
Scottyg-1, john-r, DaveW-1, Severy-4, irs, Nancy, and Michael. MikeD says,
"yes there is"
Greg-1 says, "Wha..? Huh? I'm awake! I'm awake!" MikeD says, "Yeah, sure"
Michael says, "hit all"
Nancy says, "Hi MikeD"
MikeD says, "Hi Nancy"
Michael waves at Greg-1, Scottyg-1, john-r, MikeD, DaveW-1, Severy-4, irs,
and Nancy. Michael says, "bonk all"
DaveW-1 says, "hello all"
Michael stops being silly
DaveW-1 says, "that will be the day"
Greg-1 says, "Aw darn, silly is fun!"
MikeD says, "hmm, thwap all returns an error" Michael says, "I assume
everyone has heard about SpaceShipOne's flight today?" MikeD says, "yes,
good news"
john-r says, "nope, not me"
Michael says, "Scaled Composites broke the Mach 1.2 on the way to 61,000
feet on their first attempt at lighting SpaceShipOne's rocket during normal
flight." Nancy says, "Nope."
irs says, "You assume incorrectly. What?!?!?!" irs says, "Shee-it."
irs says, "That's what I get for not going to the office today." Michael
says, "see http://rocketforge.org for links to the article and a nice
picture" Michael says, "and for lots of other interesting articles that got
posted today...." MikeD says, "also Space Adventures sold 2 tickets to the
ISS" dcarson arrives.
dcarson says, "sorry, I dozed off"
Greg-1 reads the meeting agenda
Greg-1 says, "Is the recorder on?"
MikeD says, "yes"
Greg-1 says, "In which case, shall we pay some attention to the agenda? :)"
irs reads the meeting agenda
MikeD reads the meeting agenda
dcarson reads the meeting agenda
DaveW-1 reads the meeting agenda
MikeD says, "hmm, November 19th"
Michael says, "coolness.... I've gotten over 300 hits in the past hour...."
Greg-1 says, "On Membership Sercices: Once again I forgot to send the
bumper stickers to Missy. I shall attempt to remember to do that on the
morrow." Severy-4 says, "Meeting Agenda hasn't been updated, I didn't
expect to be here by now" Greg-1 says, "Do we have any changes to the
agenda or shall we just press on?" Severy-4 says, "Just press on, I think"
Greg-1 says, "OK. Nancy, want to do a membership services update?" Greg-1
has wild hopes of getting through at least one agenda item before bedtime.
:) Nancy says, "There have been seven membership mailings in the past two
weeks. Yes, Missy's still waiting for bumper stickers. " Greg-1 says, "I
think that's about it for Membership Services." Greg-1 says, "On term
limitations, I have an action item to write up a formal motoin of some
sort. Haven't done that yet." Greg-1 says, "So unless someone has a better
idea, I'll pick that up next time." Greg-1 says, "I think the next agenda
item -- finalize meeting time -- is settled now. We're back at 9:00 PM
Eastern, right?" MikeD says, "yup"
john-r says, "understood"
MikeD says, "That's why we started at 9:30 PM" Greg-1 wonders if he should
throw the gavel /a/t/ to Randall. Greg-1 says, "Yeah. We'll work on Noofie
time tonight." Greg-1 says, "Any news about the mailing lists?" MikeD says,
"Noofie time?"
MikeD says, "Nothing much about lists"
Greg-1 says, "Newfoundland. It's off by 1/2 hour, or at least used to be."
MikeD says, "They say nothing, they ask nothing" Severy-4 says, "Nothing
new on Lunar Directory invitations" Greg-1 says, "Aha! The Moon Society
flyer and brochure. I shall defer to the honorable I. R. Strock for that
one." MikeD says, "Randall, are you contacting Nicklas Jaarvstadt or should
I do that?" irs says, "Draft text has been sent to the Honorable G.R.
Bennett. Awaiting a response. (Sorry, dude, you asked.)" MikeD says, "lol"
Greg-1 says, "Speaking of Niklas, I've seen a rush of email from him in the
past two days, but haven't had time to catch up with him." Michael says,
"btw, whenever the slot in the agenda comes available I'd like to give
folks an update on the value networks project:
http://www.rocketforge.org/cdsvn/" Severy-4 says, "Mike, I need to contact
Niklas on behalf of CyberTeams, but not about the Moon Society" MikeD says,
"Where was the rush, I didn't see it" Greg-1 says, "Ian, so... are there
plans for getting a graphical redesign done, or what?" Greg-1 says, "I
shouldn't be the bottleneck on getting a new flyer done if we need oe."
Greg-1 says, "one."
MikeD says, "No comment"
irs says, "Actually, the original graphics were pretty good. I'm going to
do a new layout, but I need to finalize the text first, and wanted your
input on it." Greg-1 says, "Is Niklas talking about the same deal? WSD &
the Nonprofits, live on stage, for his proposal?" Greg-1 says, "Ian, OK."
Greg-1 says, "Ian, do you have all the source artwork for the flyer?" irs
says, "I think so."
Greg-1 says, "For a long time I've tried to think of ways we could make
Niklas's proposals more attractive, but so far, no ideas." Severy-4 says,
"I think Niklas is continuing the same effort as before, just another
round" Greg-1 says, "OK, I'll try to catch up on motions, flyers, and
Niklas this week." Greg-1 says, "... and bumper stickers!" MikeD reads the
meeting agenda
Severy-4 says, "Next few things seem to need Peter, and we're Peter-less
tonight" Michael has a new line of tshirts: cafeshops.com/rocketforge Greg-1
wouldn't touch a line like that... Severy-4 says, "So why don't you jump in
at this point, Michael" Severy-4 grins.
Severy-4 was wondering if anyone would pick up on that :-) Greg-1 certainly
didn't.
john-r says, "not with a ten ft pole"
Greg-1 says, ":)"
Michael says, "sure.... nothing huge to report except that I've been
talking to Guillermo from IASE about expanding the scope slightly and
working on bringing in some business schools as sources of MBA students to
do research." Greg-1 says, "IASE?"
Michael says, "spaceentrepreneurs.org/" Greg-1 says, "OIC"
Michael says, "International Assocation of Space Entrepreneurs" Michael
says, "one of the sub-projects of this is to revive that discussion with
Michael Laine and the Colony Fund guys to help some of the startups figure
out how to do Reg D offerings safely...." Michael says, "that's pretty much
it... I'm looking to launch the thing 1q next year..." Greg-1 says, "It'll
be great if you can crack the stock offering conundrum, Michael." Michael
says, "One of hte things I've learned is that there is a standard form that
if you fill it out correctly it qualifies as a disclosure in about 45
states.... that and some minor paperwork is all you need to sell stock
under a Reg D offering in most states" john-r says, "interesting"
Greg-1 says, "We need Regulation D Handbook for the Compleat Idiot." Greg-1
says, "... and some success stories." Michael says, "I think Michael Laine
is a success story....." Greg-1 says, "Back at the agenda... are we down to
Team and Mailing List Infrastructure?" MikeD says, "Team and Mailing Lists
doing what they always do, Nothing" Greg-1 says, "Excellent! No problems
there!" MikeD says, "I really don't have time to kick their butts" Greg-1
says, "Help Desk?"
john-r says, "behind"
MikeD says, "pretty much up to date"
Greg-1 says, "Were those two reports consistent with each other?" MikeD
says, "no"
Greg-1 says, "Just checking."
john-r says, "i was wondering the same, i was last there in the last week
and info was beind" MikeD says, "I think we were referring to our own
sections" john-r says, "ahh, on that note web has one new one to answer or
move to membership" john-r says, "noting againsg Randall, has to do with
spammers, but the spam one is over a thousand" Severy-4 says, "Yeah, I need
to clear out the Spam mailbox soon" Severy-4 says, "I've been out of town
all last week, so I'm way behind on everything right now" MikeD says, "Over
1000?"
MikeD says, "It's 2215!"
john-r says, "anything over a hunders is bad, so a thousand or 2 or what
ever" MikeD says, "I seem to remember it takes a while to even load a page
with that many headers" Greg-1 says, "Yeah, Randall was working on some
changes to Help Director so that it can deal with the load." MikeD says,
"What were those? del /spam/*.* ?" Greg-1 says, "Anything else we can do
with Help Director tonight?" john-r says, "not for me"
MikeD says, "nor me"
Greg-1 says, "Next is Peter doing State of the Society Updates. I don't
have anything on that." Greg-1 says, "That brings us to John's Project
Preposal Discussion." Greg-1 says, "Anything there?"
MikeD cheers loudly.
john-r says, "yes"
john-r says, "i have been thinking of some way to get some existing members
more interested in projects" john-r says, "and someway geting those members
to inspire others to join, at least its a theroy" john-r says, "excuse the
typos and mis spellings" john-r says, "so i have a strong interest in Leto,
or a mini leto, or wha ever anyone wants to call it" john-r says, "and one
gola is a full size single space hab in , i hope the next year, that if
nothing else i will build my self" john-r says, "goal"
john-r says, "i have 4 or 4 sheets of 1/2 osp with alum sheet on one side,
as a start, and other wood products - i know the real space hab is metal,
buut for my purposes, wood does the job of a full size - toucy feely
strucure" john-r says, "4 or 5"
MikeD says, "osp?"
john-r says, "osb wood sheathing covered in alum sheets" john-r says, "what
i need is some basic space craft design, to get some things at least close
to size - for example - the thickness of the pressure vessel walls of the
exterior of the habitate - and is the pressure vessel the outer shell or
the inner or both???" john-r says, "done for a min"
Greg-1 says, "Yup, a wooden mockup is infinitely superior to no mockup; and
much less expensive than metal." john-r says, "i have stuff in the asi/leto
area, but not all of us are members of that team, and i really want to but
it all in a public space, but with no links , except to those we tell,
(((LIKE we did with the team stuff last year )))" john-r says, "right Greg,
something for kids and NON space nuts to see and feel, and yes the space
nerds may call silly as they want to wait a lifetime for a real metal space
craft" john-r says, "and all the costs involved" MikeD says, "most stage
props are made out of wood, so there isn't a problem" Scottyg-1 says,
"John, I think bulding the mockup isn't the real challenge. The real
challenge is what do we do with it once we have it?" Greg-1 says, "Wood is
good. You can learn almost as much from a wooden mockup that you can from
metal." john-r says, "i say 1 9' structure for me and as long as we all
follow the same size we may find 2 others/ aka chapters to come up with 2
more to intagrate at oklahoma next may at isdc" Greg-1 says, "The space
station trainers at NASA have plastic shells." MikeD says, "I think we
should meet the 'what to do with it' challenge after we have it" john-r
says, "True greg , like how much space for beds, for food, for air for
waste handeling" john-r says, "ect ect ect"
Greg-1 says, "Perhaps if we provide complete plans, then folks will build
things." john-r says, "and if we ge brave , whats it like to spend 14 days
in darkeness" Scottyg-1 says, "I can't support spending monet to build
something if there's no plan for how to use it when its done." john-r says,
"ect ect ect"
Greg-1 says, "Look at the MDRS."
Greg-1 says, "Photogenically it's not much, but they're having lots of fun
with it." MikeD says, "Look at the TV coverage they get from it" john-r
says, "thats the point Scotty, --- no asi/moon soc money, let the members
cough up the FIRST proto type, to say we can do something -- THEN durning
the wood construct- build up to a real metal demo with real funding like
mars ect ect ect" john-r says, "GOO Idea Greg we need , i hope, at least
real plans" john-r says, "maybe not the exact chemical makeup of the outer
shell, but the thickness, and is it trussed ribbs, ect" john-r says, "and
wht is the size of the end caps " Scottyg-1 says, "I think helping to fund
the construction is a perfectly valid and desirable thing for Moon Society
to do. My point is we need an overall plan that includes transportation
means and costs (if the plan requires it) and whatever else is needed to
complete the plan." Greg-1 says, "Nancy reports a data latency of about 9
minutes in the MOO." john-r says, "Scotty DO you understand that at this
stage , i am not asking for moon soc /asi funding ?" Greg-1 says, "That is,
she just got a line that was sent 9 minutes ago." Nancy has disconnected.
Greg-1 says, "That was interesting."
Scottyg-1 says, "I've seen too many efforts of this kind proceed to a
certain point and then stall because no one foresaw some problem." john-r
says, "Understood Scotty, i just saw you post on costs and transport ect"
Nancy has connected.
MikeD says, "wb Nancy"
Scottyg-1 says, "John, I understand...., but if MS kicking in a bit of
funding could make a significant improvement in the end result, I would be
in favor." john-r says, "My main push at the moment is to gain access to
more data for the size of things that i have mentioned so far, " Greg-1
says, "John, maybe you could post a shopping list of data that you need."
Greg-1 says, "Have you found the references on the ASI web?" MikeD says,
"John wants detailed drawings to work from for a start" john-r says, "IN
THE MEAN time some are interested in scaled models, and i am also , to a
point.-- let them that want to work on the scaled models, BUT we still need
a common reference point" john-r says, "I have started some of the list in
the leto web pages, AND Greg, which list do i post the shopping list to?"
john-r says, "Ahh Scotty, i see on MS kicking in some, thats a good thing
for say 60 days away, IF i can gather enough interest form other members"
Greg-1 says, "You need more than this?
http://www.asi.org/images/asi199600103.gif" Greg-1 says, "I'll add to my
list of action items a task to model up this thing and produce reference
drawings." john-r says, "Greg i see the main Space hab size on the asi
pages, but no real world sizes for the horz lander, except to try to scale
down to the scal bar , when i do a print out" john-r says, "goin to Gregs
url"
Greg-1 says, "Yeah, but the horizontal lander is a pretty dumb idea." MikeD
says, "So we should go with the vertical lander?" john-r says, "Greg, thats
what i need to know, WHAT is the correct Lander :)" Greg-1 says, "The
vertical landing configuration works best." Greg-1 says, "... with the
Ascent Stage mounted sidesaddle." Greg-1 says, "That shows up in some of
Vik's renderings." Greg-1 says, "I'm searching for a movie that Vik made."
john-r says, "But is it thre the url you gave is a Taller structure than
the ASI Poster?" john-r says, "and to use a grid as in the url, is a start,
but at some point, i need a best guess for the tubing for the structure, 2"
pipe or 3" or is there a avation 2.2" hi grade alum, ?? o" Greg-1 says,
"Hmm... you might be right on that..." Greg-1 says, "Nobody has done a
structural analysis so you're guess is probably as good as mine." Greg-1
says, "your, too"
Greg-1 is still searching for that movie. MikeD says, "If it can suppor
itself on Earth it can support itself on the Moon" john-r says, "But at
least yours has some more worth than mine , yours is space related, mine is
buildin const- But my hope is based on the ST louis chapter as there is a
(i think) struc eng on the chapter" dcarson says, "spacehab modules have to
be designed to no come apart in a bad landing, I forget the exact numbers"
john-r says, "You mean a bad landing for ASI and the 3 have to stay
together?" Greg-1 says, "Good point."
dcarson says, "no the design meets NASA specs for anything that is going in
the shuttle cargo bay" Greg-1 says, "Spacehab modules are designed for a
Shuttle crash, 9 g's, all axes, without penetration of the Orbiter's 576
bulkhead." dcarson says, "more then we need but not worth paying to
engineer it to less" john-r says, "ok, but if the shuttle is our , best
shot at launce, we have to meet the same specs, OR do you mean for the
lunar landeing we need tougher specs?" Greg-1 says, "Done. Here's a 1.6
megabyte MPG movie that shows the landing stack configuration rather
nicely." Greg-1 says, "http://www.asi.org/images/2003/landing.mpg" dcarson
says, "we want to use habs as is and thats what they are designed to
already" MikeD says, "No, it's just cheaper to buy off the shelf" john-r
notes, we are getting some where , :) Greg-1 says, "We really need to
design the structure to more demanding launchers than the Shuttle." john-r
is down loding the mpg file
Greg-1 says, "Shuttle requires lots more verification and safety analysis,
but it's a gentle launcher." john-r says, "ahhh, so tougher specs mean more
avail lauchers, right?" Greg-1 says, "Vik created that movie to make the
point that when we lower the exploration base to its horizontal position,
we don't need to worry about controlling its descent." Greg-1 says, "John,
yes, exactly that." Greg-1 says, "We ought to design the launch
configuration to take 6 g's on +x with 2 g's RMS vibration." Greg-1 says,
"If we do that, then we can launch on a Delta IV Heavy." john-r says, "ok,
this kind general/specifics, is what i am need of, i could go for hours,
BUT i am 30 min from sleep, and no doubt all of us, Sooooo for now, whic
list for the want /shopping list?" Greg-1 says, "... or, presumably, some
new even more powerful launcher that isn't flying yet." john-r says, "true"
Greg-1 says, "Hmmm... somewhere that it can be developed and won't get
lost..." Greg-1 says, "I'd post it on one of the team web sites and then
send a note to artemis-list." john-r says, "and for now , best guess on
wall thicness - 2" or 6" between inner and outer shell, any idea?" Greg-1
says, "4 sounds about right. :)" Greg-1 says, "There are internal
bulkheads." john-r says, "TY TY oh kind maste :)"
Greg-1 says, ":)"
john-r says, "so thats all for the moment, anything else for the meeting ?"
Greg-1 says, "How about just making a little document and sticking it in
/adb/04/02/03/ ?" Greg-1 says, "That's the Lunar Habitat design section."
MikeD says, "Can someone extract the first frame from that mpg for me?"
Greg-1 says, "Then we can fill in the blanks as we go, and post new
pictures as I can create them." dcarson says, "quick thing from me"
dcarson says, "talked with Bob Zimmerman after the panel at Philcon" Greg-1
says, "Bob Zimmerman... hmmm... I know that name..." john-r says,
"/adb/04/02/03/ sounds good" dcarson says, "we can offer 2 of the books hes
written at a discount to members if we want" dcarson says, "CHRONOLOGICAL
ENCYCLOPEDIA OF DISCOVERIES IN SPACE." dcarson says, "I can sell
autographed copies of this book to your members at $65 plus $5 shipping &
handling." irs says, "Zimmerman: former screenwwriter, now writing
non-fiction about space. Nice guy." dcarson says, "GENESIS THE STORY OF
APOLLO 8." dcarson says, "I can sell autographed copies of this book to
your members at $18 plus $3 shipping & handling." Greg-1 says, "Do you have
the details, Dana? That sounds like a good MMM article, and maybe a news
note on the web." Greg-1 says, "Neat! I'll buy those!"
Greg-1 says, "Apollo 8 was my favoritest of the Apollo flights! :) :)"
dcarson says, "list price are $95 and $25 usually" john-r will be right
back.
Greg-1 says, "Wow!"
Greg-1 says, "Dana, could you write down the details in a little web page
and submit it to Moon Society WSD?" Greg-1 says, "I can make it purdy if
you'd like." Greg-1 says, "It would be neat to have pictures of the
covers." dcarson says, "sure"
Greg-1 says, "Great! Just rattle my cage when it's there." Greg-1 says,
"(We can probably pilfer images from Amazon. :)" dcarson says, "yep"
dcarson says, "hes local to here so we also want to try to arrange a local
chapter meetin with him as guest" Greg-1 says, "Incidentally, for those
that missed it: http://www.asi.org/images/2003/landing.mpg is a pretty cool
mpeg, never before seen. :)" dcarson says, "
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1573561967.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg" Greg-1 says,
"Rats. I have to email that URL to myself so it'll be on my Mac." MikeD
says, "Am I going to have to install Premier just to make a thumbnail of
that mpeg?" Greg-1 says, "Can you just do a screen shot, Mike?" MikeD says,
"Duh"
MikeD says, "I just did"
MikeD says, "Braindead I am"
dcarson says, "Ian you might send him ad rates he was asking about ads in
the newsletter" Greg-1 says, "Heh. Is it sunrise in Ireland yet?" dcarson
says, "Bob Zimmerman <zimmerman@nasw.org>" MikeD says, "Wont be sunrise for
another 4 months!" MikeD says, "err hours"
Michael says, "looks like Paul Allen is out of the closet:
http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20031217005846&newsLang=en"
MikeD says, "That mpeg is now properly presented in
http://www.asi.org/images/2003/" MikeD says, "Feel free to add a
description to the properties Greg" irs says, "Michael, I can't get to that
page. Could you maybe paste the text into an e-mail to irs@panix.com?"
john-r says, "that is a cool mpg, BUT its the short lander, not the tall,
am i right?" MikeD says, "That's because it's getting left there" Greg-1
says, "Thanks, Mike!"
Greg-1 says, "Yeah, now that I think about it, we redesigned the tanks
after Vik made those models." Greg-1 says, "I'll have to check to make sure
I'm showing the correct configuration in that image that shows the
dimensiosn." Greg-1 says, "dimensions, too."
john-r says, "i need to sleep, Thanks to all, see ya all here next year :)
Merry Christmas and Happy new year" john-r [to those]: that partake
john-r says, "night"
Greg-1 says, "You too, John! Happy partaking!" Greg-1 says, "It's getting
late for me, too." john-r says, ":)"
Greg-1 says, "If nobody has anything else, I'll hit the sack." MikeD passes
out on the keyboard
Greg-1 says, "(Did Michael get his agenda item slipped in?)" john-r says,
"I did not want to offend any one , and that ain't easy" john-r says, "i
think so"
john-r has disconnected.
Michael says, "yep!"
Michael says, "I was done...."
Greg-1 says, "OK, then, is it a wrap?"
Michael says, "yep"
Severy-4 says, "Yup, I think it's a wrap" MikeD says, "yup"
MikeD says, "Michael, how are the Google ads working out?" Greg-1 hands the
usurped gavel to Randall so he can thawp it. :) Greg-1 says, "(Sorry about
that, Randall. I guess I was on a roll tonight.)" Nancy says, "Night!"
Michael says, "on sub pages they're good and targeted. I'm not sure why the
ones on teh front page aren't though....." Michael says, "no clickthroughs
yet though" Nancy has disconnected.
Severy-4 says, "No problem at all, Greg, I've been multitasking most of the
night, so I was glad you kept things moving" MikeD says, "I was about to
ask if they are increasing your traffic" Michael says, "they wouldn't
really increase my traffic since I'm not paying to direct people to me. I'm
just hosting the banner ads for other people...." MikeD says, "I'll be
interested to know how it goes" Michael says, "hey! I had a clickthrough! I
just earned $0.25!" Greg-1 says, "Congratulations, Michael!" Greg-1 says,
"Merry Christmas to all, and to all, a good night!" Greg-1 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Greg-1. The housekeeper arrives to cart
john-r off to bed. MikeD says, "Can some of the earnings be diverted
towards advertising your site?" Michael says, "I suppose so....."
Michael says, "not enough at this point though...." MikeD says, "So the
thing is, we should all go to your site every day and click on an ad" irs
says, "Oops. Guess I missed the end of the meeting. Kit just got home."
Michael says, "you could but google would sense that as ad spammage....."
MikeD says, "Only if we kept clicking on the same one" The housekeeper
arrives to cart Nancy off to bed. Michael heads back to the commons
Michael goes home.
MikeD leaves.
Scottyg-1 says, "Night all!"
Scottyg-1 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Scottyg-1. irs has disconnected.
dcarson goes home.
The housekeeper arrives to cart irs off to bed. DaveW-1 leaves.

-- End log: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 11:46:51 pm ASI Meeting Server time --