-- Start log: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 9:11:03 pm ASI Meeting Server time --

kokhmmm says, "I don't know who else he interviewed but he mentioned
Criswell." Severy switches places with Severy-4
Severy-4 says, "Ok, let's get this show on the road, we've got a lot of
ground to cover tonight" Severy-4 says, "Michael, I put your idea up first
on the agenda, can you summarize it for everyone?" Nancy reads the meeting
agenda
Michael says, "sure...."
Michael reads the meeting agenda
Greg-2 reads the meeting agenda
Severy-4 says, "And then if Greg can restate his concerns for everyone who
wasn't around this afternoon :-)" Michael says, "As most of you know
Transorbital is working on the Trailblazer mission to the moon. They are
looking for customers. They've located one in the form of an Italian radio
astronomer that would like to do an RF study of the far side to determine
if it really would make a good location for radio astronomy and/or SETI
work." Michael says, "The problem is that the Italian teem needs funding
for the fees that Transorbital needs to launch the instrument. IIRC, the
instrument is ready for integration, they just need the launch funds."
Greg-2 says, "Who is the Italian astronomer?" MikeD-2 says, "Do you happen
to know the name of the show Peter?" Michael says, "Dr. Claudio Maccone of
the" Michael says, "International Academy of Astronautics" kokhmmm says,
"No Mike."
Greg-2 says, "And the plan is to have the Moon Society involved as a
fund-raising agent for the Dr. Maccone?" Michael says, "So Transorbital is
asking if we, the Moon Society, could sponsor a fund raiser for Dr. Maccone
and use the funds to help him pay for the launch. Transorbital is willing
to kick in some PR help to get the fund raiser going. Dr. Maccone is able
to do speaking tour type engagements." Michael says, "Yes. Something like
what was done for Lunar Prospector....." Greg-2 says, "How much money does
Dr. Maccone need?" irs reads the meeting agenda
Michael says, "$2.5 million US"
dcarson-2 reads the meeting agenda
Greg-2 says, "What do we know about the International Academy of
Astronautics?" Greg-2 says, "(This is the first time I've heard of it.)"
Michael says, "the only thing we need to do is provide the sponsorship and
the money management associated with being the legal entity that's
collecting the money. Others will provide PR, materials, etc as in kind
donations." Michael says, "I don't know. Paul and Charles are doing DD on
Mr. Maccone and his organization now." Greg-2 says, ""DD"?"
Michael says, "due diligence"
Greg-2 says, "OIC."
dcarson-2 says, "and whats the legal status of a US nonprofit donating to a
foreign nonprofit" Greg-2 says, "This sounds a lot better than how it was
first presented. :)" dcarson-2 says, "I like the idea but we need to make
sure we can do it" Greg-2 says, "But we still need to know what the
International Academy of Astronautics is." Scottyg-1 says, "
http://www.iaanet.org" Greg-2 says, "That is, why can't thy just use their
own organizational structure?" Michael says, "the thing that attracted me
about it was that we didn't have to do any of the true heavy lifting.
Charles is lining up others to do that...." dcarson-2 says, "lots of PR
about the Moon Society raising money for a space probe == lots of PR about
the Moon Society period" MikeD-2 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove MikeD-2. Michael says, "another good
question.... they may not be setup to take donations like that...." kokhmmm
says, "That's it. They are not non-profit." irs says, "As a non-profit, we
can't collect money/donations for a for-profit. We can make purchases on
our own, but that's it." MikeD-2 arrives.
Greg-2 says, "Yeah, it sounds like it would be a neat thing for the Moon
Society to do. What I don't understand is why they need the Moon Society in
the loop." MikeD-2 says, "Moo client crashed"
Greg-2 says, "Peter, how do you now that the I.A.A. is non-profit?" Michael
says, "the moon society has the 501c3. I suspect US donations to an Italian
organization don't qualify for tax exempt status." dcarson-2 says, "who
isn't nonprofit? IAA or Transorbital?" kokhmmm says, "I meant TransOrbitral"
Greg-2 says, "Peter, right. We can't raise funds for TransOrbital at all."
dcarson-2 says, "if we give the money to another nonprofit that matches our
purposes and they use it to fund activities that legal" Michael says, "but
we can raise funds for a project that happens to use Transorbital as a
supplier." Greg-2 says, "The way this is described, it sounds like
TransOrbital isn't in the loop with us except as the carrier for an
experiment." dcarson-2 says, "and a moon probe certainly fits out general
purposes" Michael says, "greg, correct..... i.e. they have the same
relationship that Office Depot would have if they were to provide staples."
Greg-2 says, "Officially, it would be a joint experiment between the Moon
Society and the IAA, right? And we would contract with Transorbital to
carry the instrument on their flight." Michael says, "Transorbital may
provide some in kind services to help with the fund raising...." irs says,
"I do question that, if we have the ability to raise funds for this
project, why we aren't using that ability to raise funds for ourself?"
dcarson-2 says, "and our ties to Transorbital aren't so strong as to make
it look bad" Michael says, "ian, that's an *extremely* good question."
Michael says, "IMHO, we should use this as a chance to figure out how we
can do that without busting our human capital budget." dcarson-2 says, "for
this we can say donate money and we'll launch a moon probe i the near
future" Michael says, "yep....."
dcarson-2 says, "which is a good selling point" kokhmmm says, "We have
never tried to raise funds for a sexy project, have we?" john-r says, "is
the iaa insterment to fly with TO's 1st Mission???" Greg-2 says, "Yes. I'm
not at all hopeful about raising that kind of donated money, but it's lots
easier to raise money for a real project." Scottyg-1 says, "This is an
opinion based on incomplete info, but I think this would probably fly with
the IRS. We would need to check that out explicitly, but proceed with that
assumption for tonight's purposes." Michael says, "the cool thing is that
I've been doing some research into outsourcing services and there are
enough services out there that we can keep our labor costs low." Michael
says, "john, yes... on the trailblazer mission" irs says, "Sorry, how much
is this going to cost us, Michael?" Michael says, "Scotty, that was my
assumption as well. I'd definitely want to read any contracts to make sure
we're granting the money to the correct organization." Greg-2 says, "Yeah,
that's what I'm thinking, too, Scotty. A lot depends on what the
International Academy of Astronautics really is." Michael says, "IAA seems
to be strongly affiliated with the seti league...." john-r says, "TY
Michale, but am i correct then, that one satlite will circle the moon with
an iaa attachment - or does the iaa leave to when they get to the moon??"
Michael says, "http://www.setileague.org/iaaseti/lunar.htm" Scottyg-1 says,
"Its recognized as a non-governmental organization by the UN." Michael
says, "john, this instrument will simply look for ambient RF noise when
Trailblazer is on the far side. It does not require surface ops." john-r
says, "ok TY Michael, so 2.5 million is , kinda a cargo fee, or some such
thing" Greg-2 says, "Based on the information on the web, the IAA sounds
like a non-profit scientific organization. HQ is in France. It was founded
in Sweden in 1960." Michael says, "costs depend on what we decide to do. If
we are only capable of offering the ability to keep track of the money then
'cost' is really defined more by the amount of effort our financial folk
need to handle $2.5 million." Michael says, "we also have the ability to
process credit card transactions and handle snail mail donations. So if we
decided that we are willing to provide that service as well, then our costs
would go up accordingly.... IMHO, beyond that we are seriously stretching
our capabilities to the breaking point." dcarson-2 says, "can our
membership processing handle the doantions, which I suppose is a Nancy and
Scotty question" Greg-2 says, "Before we can take any action on this one,
we'd need to fill in the blanks for the missing information. Who is going
to be doing the "heavy lifting"?" Michael says, "but imho, it would seem
reasonable to take out money from teh donations to cover administrative
costs." kokhmmm says, "Keep in mind that whatever structure/systems we put
in place to handle this funding challenge will be there ready for the next
challenge. That's a long range plus." irs says, "Just because it seems
reasonable doesn't mean it's either legal or feasible, Michael." Michael
says, "Greg, I'm willing to keep the ball rolling with Charles and fill in
the details." MikeD-2 says, "do you have any documentation we could look at
Michael?" Michael says, "ian, well aware of that. I'm married to a lawyer
so I've learned that over the past several decades 'reasonable' really does
mean illegal." Nancy says, "I'm not sure yet, Dana. We'd need to work out
the procedure first." Greg-2 says, "I think we just assigned an action item
to Michael to draft up a little project plan for this... something we can
add detail to as we go." irs says, "Gotcha."
Michael says, "Mike, not yet. Charles is compiling it now. I'll have more
in teh next few days..." Greg-2 [to really]: do it right, we'd want to put
out an RFP for folks to carry the experiment, even if we fully expect that
Transorbital would be the only respondent. Michael says, "What Charles is
after is basically our intent to work with them on putting this together.
I.e. just an assurance that we like the idea and are willing to work on it
given all of the assumptions work out." MikeD-2 says, "any idea how much of
the radio specrum this device is supposed to cover?" john-r says,
"***ALL*** assumptions"
Michael says, "Mike, there's a PDF on this page:
http://www.setileague.org/iaaseti/lunar.htm" Michael says, "that might have
something." dcarson-2 says, "if the companies that raise money for fireman
etc can charge 95% to expenses where the company that does the phoning is
run by the sister of the head of the cahrity, and the printer is owned by
the uncle etc this should be OK" Greg-2 says, "I'm thinking that if there
are no legal showstoppers and we aren't hurting for the resources to
participate as the Moon Society, it's a really neat idea." john-r says, "So
for tonight do we want to say yes the intent is real, but we need more
data, and go on with the agenda, ??" Greg-2 says, "I, for one, would like
to know the answer to the very question that this payload is asking."
Michael says, "john, I was about to make a motion to that affect...."
Greg-2 says, "Yeah, I think I have enough to pass this agenda item on to
the next meeting." Scottyg-1 says, "The current president of the IAA
resides in the US. I think there should be contact between a top person in
our organization and their president to discuss this program before we do
much more." Greg-2 says, "Do you have contact info, Scotty?" Michael says,
"scotty, yep..... that sounds like a good action item for me...." kokhmmm
says, "This payload is seeking to find justification for putting a major
radio telescope installation on Farside." Scottyg-1 says, "(Lets be sure
the project has official sanction.)" Greg-2 says, "Yeah. Maybe I should
call him." Scottyg-1 says, "Its on the IAA web site." Michael says, "Greg,
let me hear back from Charles first.... I'll drop you a note when I hear
from him. Maybe tomorrow....." Greg-2 says, "OK, I'll take the action item
to follow up." Greg-2 says, "Michael, OK... grb@asi.org." Severy-4 says,
"Ok, anything more on this topic before we move on?" Michael says, "ok, so
do we need a motion at this point or is there consensus that we'll simply
keep this as a work item?" Scottyg-1 says, "Current president is Prof
Edward C. Stone" john-r says, "ia good , and i feel it needs looked into"
kokhmmm says, "I'm for it."
Severy-4 says, "I don't think a motion is necessary yet, Michael" john-r
says, "consensus is good--"
Michael says, "cool.... ok, yea, I'm done.... more info in a few
days.....I'm done..." dcarson-2 says, "and a google search shos a Prof
Edwad C Stone at CalTech/JPL" dcarson-2 says, "
http://www.srl.caltech.edu/personnel/ecs.html" Severy-4 says, "Ok, moving
on to the next agenda item, which is one that I just added" Greg-2 says,
"Better and better! (I'm ready to move on with the agenda.)" Severy-4 says,
"If each of you can find the meeting agenda web page and look at the two
supporting documents that I have linked from there" Michael reads the
meeting agenda
john-r says, "http://www.moonsociety.org/private/leaders/agenda.html"
MikeD-2 says, "obviously this payload is intended to measure ambient rfi on
the farside" Severy-4 says, "This is an idea that came up a month ago at a
CEO roundtable meeting that I participate in once a month" Michael says,
"hmmm..... for some reason I can't login" dcarson-2 says, "can't, no
powerpoint"
MikeD-2 says, "that's a pretty neat idea, but it needs a pretty neat
receiver too" Severy-4 says, "It came from a discussion about providing
incentives for board members, primarily for non-profit organizations, which
seemed like it might have some value for us" Severy-4 says, "The supporting
documents are from the Junior Achievement organization, which is currently
using this system" Michael says, "can someone email 'em to me?" Michael
says, "michael@neonym.net (just so we don't have to futs with logins now)"
Severy-4 says, "It should be your Team Director login info, Michael"
Michael says, "yea, that's what I'm using..... I have the same login and pw
for all of 'em...but no dice." Severy-4 says, "Can you log into Team
Director?" dcarson-2 says, "can read the sample, so when you collect enough
points you get to escape :-)" irs says, "Can't read PowerPoint here."
Severy-4 says, "Try again, Michael, I just added you to that repository"
Severy-4 says, "Basically, I don't know anything more than what is in those
documents, and some things are not clear to me, but if you have any
questions about it I can pass it on to the person I got these from"
dcarson-2 says, "whats in the powerpoint doc?" Severy-4 says, "A summary of
the program" Michael says, "got it"
dcarson-2 thwaps Severy-4 with a rolled-up newspaper. "Bad! Bad! Bad!!!"
Scottyg-1 says, "Raqndall, fot those that don't have powerpoint, you could
do screen shots." irs says, "Gimme a hint of what we're discussing?"
dcarson-2 says, "or does powerpoint have export as html or some such"
Greg-2 says, "... or Save as... HTML"
Severy-4 says, "I just did a save as HTML, let me upload them" MikeD-2
says, "It has 'save as Web Page'" dcarson-2 says, "thanks"
Greg-2 says, "I'm spread out between 3 machines now. I don't have
Powerpoint on either of the two comm boxes. :)" Michael says, "cool....I'd
need to dig into it but I like the idea...." Severy-4 says, "Uploading..."
Greg-2 says, "Obviously these programs need a command for "Export to
WebSite Director..." :) :) :)" MikeD-2 says, "The worst thing is they're
going to generate MSHTML" Severy-4 says, "Ok, reload the agenda web page
and you'll find a new link" Severy-4 says, "Uggh, those slides came out
rather small" Severy-4 says, "Let me try them larger" MikeD-2 says, "kind
icky"
MikeD-2 says, "the buttons are nasty too" Greg-2 says, "Right. Look at the
content, not the HTML. :)" Severy-4 says, "Re-uploading new version" Greg-2
says, "Randall, is our goal here to figure out if we can adopt a system
like this to make the Moon Society board more effective?" Severy-4 says,
"Ok, do a refresh on each slide you've already seen to get the new version"
Severy-4 says, "Yes, Greg, although it would also work with councils and
committees" MikeD-2 says, "that's too big"
Severy-4 says, "Yeah, I just noticed that" MikeD-2 says, "lol"
Greg-2 says, "Go to the next page. It works after you get past the title
slide." Scottyg-1 says, "But not grossly too big." MikeD-2 says, "what is
that, 1152 x thingy?" Severy-4 says, "1024x768, 3/4 size, I'm cranking it
down to 800x600" Greg-2 says, "Hmmm... "sustainable impact" sounds like a
artillery barrage." Severy-4 says, "Ok, new version up"
Greg-2 says, "I believe you've got it, Randall!" Severy-4 says, "Yeah, that
size works"
MikeD-2 says, "yup"
irs says, "OK, I've looked at the pretty slides and read the words. So what
is it we're supposed to be discussing?" Severy-4 says, "I wanted to see if
there was interest in trying to set up such a system for our use" Michael
says, "some aspects (like that org chart) might be a little heavy for
us...." irs says, "A system to do what? Get board members to donate money
or corporate services?" Severy-4 says, "It's a way of measuring volunteer
participation" kokhmmm says, "NSS tried to start a system that expected
Board members to cough up at least a grand a year and to raise more. It met
with fatal resistance." Greg-2 says, "Yeah, the donations part wouldn't
work well for us." irs says, "Won't work here; I've been begging to pay the
rent (begging the parents, that is, but still...)." kokhmmm says, "There
are other ways to contribute time and talent and effort besides money."
Severy-4 says, "It's not about money"
Severy-4 says, "That's just one way of earning points" Greg-2 says, "Right."
irs says, "ok"
Severy-4 says, "Showing up at meetings is probably the most common way of
earning points :-)" MikeD-2 says, "Your boardmember has performed a fatal
resistance error in module #AD0C 43FB" Michael says, "i.e .those that have
time earn points by doing things, those that don't have time can earn
points other ways.... just one is by donating money." Severy-4 says, "Has
everyone seen the point system in the Word document?" Greg-2 says, "If
someone wanted to be on the board because he's able to donate thousands of
dollars a month to the Society, then that would count as substatial
particpation. :)" kokhmmm says, "And executing personal action items should
earn points." MikeD-2 says, "No, haven't seen the point system. Did you
check the word doc for viruses and worms?" Severy-4 says, "The Word
document should make it clear what stuff can be done for points" Severy-4
says, "Yes, Mike"
dcarson-2 says, "after we have points what do we do, kick out the lowest,
reward the highst, list it on the website and taunt the lowest?" Severy-4
says, "Let me republish that as HTML for the paranoid among us :-)" Michael
says, "yea, what do you propose we do with all of our points? Redeem them
for stuffed animals?" Michael says, ";-)"
MikeD-2 says, "nah, bumper stickers"
Greg-2 says, "Dana, naw, then we just taunt Randall for finding another way
for us to invest our time. :)" Michael says, "speaking of bumper stickers,
its a shame Tim isn't here" irs says, "Uh, no. You kick out the person with
the most points; reward for service <g>." dcarson-2 says, "true :-)"
john-r says, "overall i think its a neat idea, but the JA has a *paid*
staff to do the crunching - right??" Severy-4 says, "Ok, reload the meeting
agenda for the HTML version of the point document" Severy-4 says,
"Crunching, John?"
Scottyg-1 says, "If there was a point system for lower level bodies, then
points could be a qualification for election/reelection to the board."
Severy-4 says, "But keep in mind that the size of the board they are
talking about is around 40 people, it's basically their primary volunteer
force, in our case it would apply more towards our overall membership" irs
will be right back.
dcarson-2 says, "could use it for a volunter of the month/year thing or
some such" Michael says, "oh?!"
Michael says, "ah! now I get it"
Greg-2 says, "I see some merit in this kind of system for earning Brownie
Points." Greg-2 says, "Maybe we can have merit badges, too. :)" Severy-4
says, "It would be a visible reward for effort applied, which then provides
an added incentive to make that effort" Michael says, "so do you have any
ideas for what you redeam your points for?" Greg-2 says, "Do you lose
points if you volunteer to do something and then don't do it?" Greg-2 says,
"Points = egoboo."
Scottyg-1 says, "You lose double what you would have earned. :=)" Greg-2
says, "Scotty, I like it! :)"
Severy-4 says, "Michael, we would need to determine what we use the points
for, they may count towards committee assignments, leadership positions,
board membership, etc." kokhmmm says, "You should get points for doing what
you volunteer to do, but if you lose points for not comeing through, that
will discourage volunteering." dcarson-2 says, "why don't we discuss tha
tin email since we need to think on it?" Severy-4 says, "Yup, everyone
please review the slides and the point document in detail and think about
it between now and the next meeting" Severy-4 says, "If you have any
questions about how JA is using it that aren't covered in the slides, drop
me an e-mail and I'll ask the person I got this stuff from" Michael says,
"hmm..... 50 points gets you a moon socity tshirt, 100 gets you a moon
society stainless steel mug....." john-r says, "sounds good to me"
john-r says, "ahhh"
MikeD-2 says, "the mug sounds good"
john-r says, "my sounds good was to randall, but i guess it works for
michael also" MikeD-2 says, "can I make up the difference with Euros?"
Severy-4 says, "Cash donations will always earn points!" MikeD-2 hmms.
A hollow voice, accompanied by a distant sound of bagpipes, whispers,
"TLRC... WSD... TLRC... WSD..." Severy-4 chuckles.
john-r says, "but will the points hekp in the wages dept ???? :)" irs says,
"I'm back."
john-r says, "whats the hollow voice up to?" MikeD-2 says, "each point will
typically be worth 0.1 of a penny and will not be redeeemable for cash"
Severy-4 says, "Ok, anyway, enough on the point system, we'll revisit it at
the next meeting" Greg-2 says, "Right! Loonie Points next meeting! :)"
Severy-4 laughs.
Severy-4 says, "Yeah, we'll have to come up with a nifty name for these
things :-)" Greg-2 says, "Membership Services is next." Severy-4 says, "So,
moving on to Membership Services" Severy-4 says, "Any issues to discuss in
this area tonight?" Greg-2 says, "Wait for Nancy..."
Nancy says, "There were 11 total new/renewal memberships since the last
meeting. 3 renewals and 8 new memberships. As Missy was working, Help
Director gave her an error message. She's not sure how to fix that yet, she
has to talk to Randall or Scotty. She still has a few more to finish, that
will go on next meetings report. Also, she needs more posters and bumper
stickers. :)" Severy-4 says, "Ok"
Nancy says, "Yeah, wait for my big turn at this meeting. LOL" Greg-2 says,
"Right!"
dcarson-2 says, "will send more posters" Severy-4 says, "Re: Help Director
error message, was that the one about next member number is too low?"
Greg-2 says, "Nancy, nag me about bumper stickers. Dana can send posters."
Nancy says, "Ok great, Dana."
MikeD-2 says, "the membership services board person seems to have left us"
Greg-2 says, "Dana: 8 Shore Road, Oswego, NY 13126." Nancy says, "Ok, will
do."
Michael says, "can I ask a question about bumper stickers?" Greg-2 says,
"Mike, that's OK. We're covered." Nancy says, "Yes, Randall."
Greg-2 says, "Ask away, Michael."
Michael says, "are these Moon Society stickers?" Greg-2 says, "Yes."
Greg-2 says, "Not great, but they're what we got." Michael says, "are we
using lunar traders for their production/sale?" Severy-4 says, "For the
Help Director error, find the last assigned member number, go into the
System Config screens on both the ASI *and* Moon Society Team Director
systems and make sure that the "Next Member Number" value is set to the
last assigned member number *plus one*" Greg-2 says, "Duh... I don't know
where bumper stickers come from. I think we found them under a cabbage
leaf." Michael says, "ok, because I can provide all the Moon Society logo
shwag you need via cafepress. But I don't want to do that if Tim is going
to or if someone else does...." Scottyg-1 says, "They were ordered from a
sticker production house in NY." Greg-2 says, "Randall, got it."
Greg-2 says, "Scotty, therefore, the answer to Michael's question is "no",
I think." dcarson-2 says, "email bulk price? to leaders so we can compare"
irs says, "As I recall, cafepress is great for one-ofs, but tends to lose
out on cost for larger runs." Scottyg-1 says, "Tim doesn't have sticker
production capability locally. He has to outsource it just like us." Greg-2
says, "Howzabout we put out an RFQ when the supply runs low?" irs says,
"Sounds good."
Greg-2 says, "We're fixed for a while on that item. I'm not sure of the
exact inventory. I'll count 'em." dcarson-2 says, "what is the current
supply?" Michael says, "ok, beyond bumper stickers, what about other shwag?
like this: http://cafeshops.com/rocketforge.9051320" Greg-2 says, "Heh. I'm
ahead of you, Dana. :)" Greg-2 says, "Michael, we could authorize you to
produce all sorts of Moon Society schwag if you'd like to." Greg-2 says,
"Then when you're a gazillionaire you can make big donations. :)" Michael
says, "hehe..... I don't intend on making a lot of money on it. I just want
to make 'em available, but I didn't want to piss off Tim or anyone else."
Greg-2 says, "We could write up a little licensing contract and then you
could boast "Produced udner license from the Moon Society."" john-r says,
"carefull, Michaels a board member and irs may or may not like board
members getting orders for supplies---just a thought" Michael says, "that
would be cool... but only if no one else wants to do it" dcarson-2 says,
"LT has rights to be official store for ASI IIRC, nothing about Moon
Society" dcarson-2 says, "official online store" Greg-2 says, "Dana, that's
just what I was thinking. (Are you using my brain tonight, or am I using
yours?)" Michael says, "well, I have an email in to Tim to ask him so we'll
see what he says..." Michael says, "sorry.... I just completely sidetracked
the agenda...." dcarson-2 says, "but it would be good to suck Tim in to get
things going, more sales means more licensing fees" Greg-2 says, "Yeah,
this is a bit beyond Membership Services. Michael, let's draft up a
proposal for the board and add it to a future agenda." Michael says, "dana,
that's the thing: its *so* easy for me to do that I had to actually do work
to make it not as available....." Michael says, "will do..... sorry!"
Scottyg-1 says, "I received a bothersome email from one of our members."
MikeD-2 says, "uhoh"
------------------------------

                            |                                          |
                            | warning warning - Michael looses a point |
john-r holds up a BIG sign: |           for agenda side track          |
                            |__________________________________________|

Greg-2 says, "Scotty?"
Severy-4 laughs.
Scottyg-1 says, "Seems he joined last July but never received any sort of
notification from us." john-r says, "yes to Scotty???"
Greg-2 says, "Oops."
dcarson-2 says, "ouch, apoligize and extend the membership a year?" Greg-2
says, "Scotty, howzabout forwarding that one to
member-support@moonsociety.org and getting it into the Help Director
system?" Scottyg-1 says, "I think that probably happened during the James
Gholston fiasco when no one knew what was or wasn't getting done." john-r
says, "Scotty is this the same or different from the one we had last
summer?" Michael says, "hehe.... it took SFF 6 months to respond to mine.
;-)" Greg-2 says, "(Which reminds me that we need to get Help Director
support onto the agenda.)" Scottyg-1 says, "Different i think John."
Scottyg-1 says, "Member was Lutz Lemmer." john-r says, "Michael, you mean
we are not the only one with foulups?" Michael says, "john, nope!"
Scottyg-1 says, "Randall, I copied you on my answer to him." Severy-4 says,
"Greg, we do have an agenda item for "Help Desk", which is Help Director"
john-r says, "Scotty is the current nassty letter in the help director? or
snail mail?" Greg-2 says, "I see it now, Randall. Thanks." Scottyg-1 says,
"It came direcctly to me." Scottyg-1 says, "As email."
john-r says, "ok"
Severy-4 says, "Scotty, when was that answer? I don't remember seeing
it..." john-r says, "so what do we need to do, add membership time, or does
he want a complete out?" Scottyg-1 says, "Uh-oh."
Scottyg-1 says, "I CC'd to severy@cyberteams.org. not @moonsociety.org."
Scottyg-1 says, "Hmmm. It didn't bounce either." Severy-4 says, "I think I
did register that domain name, just in case" Scottyg-1 says, "LOL. I'll
resend."
john-r says, "Scotty :) In my book thats a oops not a uh-oh" Scottyg-1
says, "Ok, it should be at moonsociety.org." john-r says, "uh-oh relats to
more drastic errors" Severy-4 says, "got it"
Greg-2 says, "Unless someone is really excited about it tonight, I'll
procrastinate on the term limits question again. I still haven't written up
anything." kokhmmm says, "oops -1 point, uh-oh, - 2 points, an Erkel - 3
points" Severy-4 says, "When did you send the original reply to him,
Scotty?" Severy-4 says, "I got a Team Director account request from him
last night, and I created his account this morning" Scottyg-1 says, "The
reply was sent on the 20th." Severy-4 says, "Ok, that explains the TD
account request" Severy-4 says, "Ok, anything more on Membership Services
for tonight?" MikeD-2 says, "nah, uh-oh is a precursor to a potential oops
and does not cost points" MikeD-2 says, "doh! is 2 points"
Severy-4 laughs.
With a sparkle of transporter light, saavik appears saavik says, "Damn"
Severy-4 says, "Ok, let's move on"
saavik says, "Sorry all"
Severy-4 says, "Hi, Amy!"
saavik reads the meeting agenda
Scottyg-1 says, "Randall, ues your own judgement whether anything else
should be done on Lutz Lemmer." Severy-4 says, "Greg wants to skip term
limits for tonight" saavik says, "randall, can you go back to emailing us
agendas before the meeting?" Severy-4 says, "So that takes us to the Moon
Discuss list and Yahoo Group" saavik says, "I ... um, would have been here
earlier with that :-)" Severy-4 says, "Needed a reminder, Amy? :-)" saavik
hides in embarassment
saavik had a really nutty day
Severy-4 says, "I'll do my best, Amy, but this is the last Wednesday for a
while that I'll actually be home before the meeting starts" Severy-4 says,
"Rehearsals start again next week..." saavik says, "during the day on wed ?"
saavik says, "(I remembered about 8:30 but was in the car then - that was
the problem)" Severy-4 says, "I'll try"
saavik says, "thanks"
saavik says, "read current on recorder" Severy-4 says, "Try 'play current
on recorder'" Greg-2 says, "Yahoo group? Discuss list? (He says,
leadingly.)" Michael says, "btw, just a bit of good news: I had a meeting
today with my new CFO and corporate council. I fly up to Raligh to talk to
an outsourcing company and the financial projections the CFO is doing are
looking really really good.... " Severy-4 says, "John, anything in thos
areas?" Severy-4 says, "those areas, too"
Greg-2 says, "play a tatoo on the recorder" Greg-2 says, "Didn't work."
Michael says, "so if things keep going I may get funding by late Spring and
be selling units come August" Severy-4 takes the deafening silence from
John's seat at the table as a No, and moves on Greg-2 says, "That's great,
Michael! I always wanted to buy some units!" Severy-4 says, "I don't have
anything new for the Lunar Directory, someday I'll get back to that (sigh)"
Severy-4 says, "So that takes us to the Moon Society Flyer and Brochure"
Severy-4 says, "Greg, Ian?"
Greg-2 says, "I think that one has landed on my plate. I was going to use
that new WSD to develop it. :)" Greg-2 says, "What's the deadline,
Randall?" Severy-4 says, "Hah! A new incentive for me :-)" Greg-2 says,
"Yup! :)"
Severy-4 says, "I need something before April 18th, Greg" Greg-2 says, "OK,
that'll work."
kokhmmm says, "I could use something in mid-April also" saavik finishes the
recorder
saavik says, "I noticed something missing in membership processing - have
we resolved the membership email issue?" Severy-4 says, "Membership e-mail
issue?" saavik says, "last meeting we talked about membership emails never
getting answered" Greg-2 says, "Amy, do you mena Help Director?" saavik
says, "we proposed to have missy do it" saavik says, "and I wondered if it
happened?" john-r has disconnected.
Nancy says, "Actually, I answer 16 last week during this meeting. There are
still some there and Missy is training to take over on this." Scottyg-1
says, "Randall, I have an item for discussion that isn't on the agenda if
we can work it in." saavik says, "ok, great"
saavik says, "I wanted to make sure it was happening :-)" saavik says, "and
hadm"
john-r has connected.
john-r says, "hi"
saavik says, "err hadn't fallen off the radar" Nancy says, "Yep, it's
happening. :)"
Severy-4 says, "We're running out of time, Scotty, but let's squeeze it in
now, and then jump to the Help Desk topic since Greg wants to cover that as
well" Greg-2 says, "(I think we just did, Randall.)" saavik says, "great
:-)"
saavik reads the meeting agenda
Scottyg-1 says, "I actually could be considered part of membership
services." Scottyg-1 says, "It"
Severy-4 says, "Ok, take it away, Scotty" Scottyg-1 says, "Peter proposed
privately to me that we consider an automatic renewal option for members."
Michael says, "not to take away from teh agenda but Tim says he's cool with
me doing logo stuff for hte society... I'll work up a proposal and discuss
it at the next meeting" Scottyg-1 says, "His proposal also included the
possibility of automatic bank draft for payment." Scottyg-1 says, "Those
are two separate topics, although Peter presented them as one." Greg-2
says, "Michael, great! Howzabout putting a proposal in
http://www.moonsociety.org/private/leaders/ ? (Assuming you can get logged
in there.)" Severy-4 says, "That definitely sounds like something worth
considering, Scotty (and Peter)" Scottyg-1 says, "I think automatic renewal
via credit card might be a good thing." Greg-2 says, "Scotty, so the
proposal is to offer a service for recurring charges." saavik says, "where
is peter anyway?"
Severy-4 says, "What would be involved in setting something like that up?"
Greg-2 says, "Yeah, for the Moon Society, that might work well. Having your
membership expire is a pain." saavik nods.
kokhmmm says, "I'm right here, Amy"
saavik blinks
saavik says, "sorry missed you peter (long list in who!)" Scottyg-1 says,
"I'm iffy about bank draft. It requires special arrangements and fees that
may not be justified for the small level of transactions we have. It also
requires some administrative effort for each member to authorize it with
the bank." john-r says, "Does Mars soc or nss have such automatic
renewals?" irs says, "Oh, you mean automatically charging a member's credit
card for membership renewal? No can do in the States." kokhmmm says, "No,
the Planetary Society is starting this program!" Scottyg-1 says, "But we
could fairly easily set up a scheme where a member supplies us with a
credit card number and we automatically renew on expiration." Greg-2 says,
"Yup. We'd want a system to look ahead and check for credit card expiration
dates." Greg-2 says, "So that we can notify folks who otherwise would be
charging an expired card." irs says, "Mensa tried to do just that any
number of times, and was told it was not acceptable under US law. It's
perfectly acceptable in England (which is where American Mensa got the
idea), but was a non-starter here. If the law's changed, I'm interested to
hear it." Scottyg-1 says, "Ian, I'll check the rules, but I think it is
permitted so long as specified criteria are met." irs says, "Nifty."
kokhmmm says, "What the Planetar Society is doing is via automatic bank
drafts" irs says, "Ah, not credit cards, then." john-r says, "credit cards
may be ok but those of us with debit visa cards may say no thankyou- i
would be one of those" saavik says, "I have lots of places that charge my
card and save it in their files - what does it mean to be illegal? for
membership?" Scottyg-1 says, "Yep, but you can't just arbitrarily draft
against someone's account. You have to send an authorization to the bank."
Greg-2 says, "John, yup, it would have to be an option, not a requirement.
Some folks will like it; some won't." irs says, "Membership dues are
different than recurring charges under the law I'm remembering, Amy."
dcarson-2 says, "I think you aren't allowed to charge automatically for
things more then a certain time in the future" kokhmmm says, "Yes, of
course. This is a trial program the Planetary Society has just launched.
Tried to get me to buy in at $10 a month." Greg-2 says, "Yeah, we won't
really know until Scotty gets done researching the rules." Scottyg-1 says,
"Anyway, we can't do too much more with it tonight, but I wanted to start
an initial discussion and get it on the agenda for next meeting." Greg-2
looks at his watch.
Severy-4 says, "Ok, since it is now 11 pm on the eastern seaboard, I'll
throw the rest of the agenda up for grabs" saavik nods.
Severy-4 says, "Is there any remaining topic that someone needs to talk
about?" kokhmmm says, "There are lots of things out there that charge your
CC monthly like travel clubs, membership web sites, etc." kokhmmm says, "I
am working on a possible position paper/statement on the Bush proposal and
will cc to everyone when I'm ready for input" saavik reads the meeting
agenda
Scottyg-1 says, "My internet service is one of those Peter." saavik says,
"what is left on the agenda that is urgent?" Severy-4 says, "Sounds like
nothing at the moment :-)" kokhmmm says, "Good meeting tonight! Kudos to
all. Goodnight" Severy-4 says, "If that's the case, then thank you all for
attending tonight! We'll meet back here on February 4th!" Severy-4 says,
"hint, hint, Amy :-)"
kokhmmm has disconnected.
Greg-2 says, "Thanks, Randall!"
Michael says, "thanks!"
saavik says, "LOL"
saavik says, "thanks Randall"
saavik says, "just been nutty"
saavik says, "and I have a wednesday night obligation that gets me home
about 8:45 so I wasn't thinkingabout it then" Scottyg-1 says, "Amy, you
need to do like the rest of us...." Severy-4 says, "Michael, I've added a
merchandise agenda item to the next meeting's agenda" Michael says,
"thanks!"
saavik says, "which is?"
saavik says, "be less stressed or ?"
Scottyg-1 says, "We have meetings *every* Wednesday, so our only problem is
which MOO to log into." Severy-4 grins.
saavik says, "Ahh!!"
saavik says, "yeah, it's the every other that gets me" saavik says, "then I
travel and will continue to do so" Greg-2 says, "There was a time when we
had meetings on every Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday." saavik says, "job
interview season coming up :-)" saavik says, "oh that would be hard"
Greg-2 says, "Typoholics Unite!"
Severy-4 says, "1st and 3rd, not every other" saavik says, "nod, right
randall"
john-r says, "vwery good meeting, but the sleep bell has rang" Michael
thinks we might want to turn Peter's position paper into a general
release.... all of this moon hype and we haven't had anything official to
say Greg-2 says, "G'night, John!"
saavik says, "night john"
saavik says, "I like that idea"
john-r says, "Nite All"
saavik says, "but let's see it first"
Scottyg-1 says, "G'nite all!"
john-r says, "what Michael said-yes"
Severy-4 says, "Good night everyone!"
john-r has disconnected.
Michael goes home.
A transporter beam sparkles and saavik disappears irs says, "Actually, we
have commented officially, to a number of outlets. Unfortunately, most of
them haven't really cared." With a sparkle of transporter light, saavik
appears irs says, "We did, however, get a mention in the Newark
Star-Ledger, and will be in sfrevu.com." saavik says, "hanging out in the
meeting room?" The housekeeper arrives to cart kokhmmm off to bed. Saavik
heads back to the Enterprise for the night saavik says, "bedtime for me too"
saavik says, "night all"
A transporter beam sparkles and saavik disappears Michael arrives.
dcarson-2 goes home.
Michael goes home.
irs has disconnected.
MikeD-2 leaves.
The housekeeper arrives to cart john-r off to bed. The housekeeper arrives
to cart irs off to bed. Scottyg-1 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Scottyg-1. Nancy has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to cart Nancy off to bed. Greg-2 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Greg-2. Severy-4 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Severy-4. john-r has arrived.
Michael has arrived.
MikeD arrives.
DaveW arrives.
MikeD says, "lol"
Michael says, "just curious what all the secrecy is about. ;-)" MikeD says,
"Is it wednesday?"
DaveW says, "its thursday"
DaveW says, "I think"
Michael says, "yea, no meeting tonight that I know of...." john-r says, "hi
all, i was curious what MikeD meant by Arthurs post in the leaders list,
and Robin may or not know us all yet" MikeD says, "no secrecy, I just said
to John that Arthur disappointed me the way he did things recently" john-r
says, "or grandmajo"
john-r says, "and i did not know if we needed to let robin and grandma
know" MikeD says, "you obviusly didn't read the leaders list when around
the time that Arthur announced his imminent retirement" john-r says, "i did
read it, and was ?? saddened- i like him, but ever since the jackson thing
last summer , he has seemed different" john-r says, "IS THIS something to
discuss in front of Robin and Grandmajo" Michael says, "I'm looking in my
mail archive and I don't see anything about this.... did I miss something?"
john-r says, "sasy ?"
DaveW says, "that event did cause a few problems" Michael says, "ahh....
this was the leaders list.... I got bumped off from that for a month or
so....." john-r says, "yes it did, its why i helped push for the general
discuss list" john-r says, "as much for Arthur as for myown concerns"
Michael is really at a loss here.....I apparently missed something
important. MikeD says, "yeah and then Arthur decided to do almost nothing
about membership until he send a nasty email to the new membership person
and got chastized" john-r says, "michael whats your e-mail and i will
forward" MikeD says, "which propted his announcement of his imminent
retirement which caused Greg to ask if we need to find someone else for
membership and outreach at which point Arthur pointedly rubbed our noses in
his mess" Michael says, "michael@neonym.net"
john-r says, "e-mail is forwardwd"
john-r says, "I heard a rumor of a bad e-mail to missy, but never knew who
sent it,, anyone have a copy of it?" john-r says, "and how did ---Arthur
pointedly rubbed our noses in his mess" Michael doesn't see anything wrong
with Arthur's email. I'd rather have that than simply disappearing which is
what a lot of other officers did..... Michael says, "but I can understand
the life evaluation, where-do-I-spend-my-time question, having asked it of
my self about once a week these days." john-r says, "Michael i think MikeD
was refering to a letter sent to Missy, i think that arthur sent-but i am
talking out of tern here" MikeD says, "and the snotty note to the leaders
list" Michael says, "which snotty note?"
john-r says, "Arthur has 1 or 2 new children and from the moon leaders meet
last summer, the time greg huffed out Arthur almost huffed out, but ended
up staying" john-r says, "yes - which snotty note"
john-r says, "the huffing was over the jackson issue, or was it randall who
huffed out- see the confusion time can bring" Michael can't remember much
of the 'jackson' issue. john-r says, "you were on a plane headed in oppisit
directions :)" john-r says, "Japan, my birth country for one" john-r says,
"anyway does anyone have access to the letter arthur sent to Missy???"
MikeD says, "no, but I'm sure Nancy or Greg could let you see it" Michael
says, "people in organizations like this have momentary upsets like
that.....the key is to forget them. People have bad days. People can have
other MUCH more severe problems that you don't know about. " john-r says,
"and somethings in a b;ack and white e-mail (no faces as in real life) can
be totally misunderstood" Michael says, "yep...."
john-r says, "true Michael"
john-r says, "any way, my feeling on Arthurs e-mail to the leaders list
seemed in order, from my center of the universe" john-r says, "anddddd was
better than the disappearing act of former members etc etc - did i get tge
etc right" john-r says, "anything else for me on these items???? i need to
shower abnd sleeppppp" Michael says, "ok, I was just wondering if there was
some deep animosity or something...." Michael says, "nope....."
Michael says, "heading back 'home'...." Michael goes home.
DaveW leaves.
john-r says, "maybe- but not at any of us- IF, a big IF the straw that
broke the camells back was the jackson issue" john-r goes home.
MikeD leaves.
Greg-2 arrives amidst thundering applause. john-r arrives.
john-r says, "Greg are ya around?"
DaveW arrives.
DaveW says, "hi guys"
john-r says, "Hi Dave"
DaveW says, "hows it going?"
john-r says, "Fine and you?"
john-r says, "i kust sent my 2cents on position to the leaders list" john-r
says, "cents"
john-r says, "just"
john-r says, "i was trying to catch Greg before the meeting on space
design" MikeD arrives.
john-r says, "Hi Mike"
MikeD says, "Hi John"
john-r says, "So how is Mike this cold night in indiana" john-r will be
away from its keyboard for a bit. MikeD is almost asleep and probably will
be by the time the meeting starts
------------------------------
| | john-r holds up a BIG sign: | YO MIKE WAKE UP :) |

|____________________| MikeD says, "go away"
john-r says, "ping bong POW ker-POW"
MikeD says, "go away"
john-r blends into the twilight :)
MikeD says, "good"
dcarson arrives.
dcarson says, "helo"
john-r says, "Hi Dana"
john-r reads the meeting agenda
MikeD says, "I didn't think you got any twilight in Indiana John" dcarson
says, "I'm going to miss part of the meeting tonight,have to go pick my car
up from the garage" dcarson reads the meeting agenda
MikeD says, "that's ok, I'm goint to miss 3 parts of it" john-r says, "i
had my truck in the shop monday, its a 1988 and 145.oo later it runns a lot
better" MikeD says, "the beginning"
MikeD says, "the middle"
MikeD says, "and"
MikeD says, "the end"
john-r says, "LOL"
john-r says, "and dana i tried to wake him up, but he told me to gooooo
away" DaveW-1 arrives.
MikeD says, "what did they do for their $145?" john-r says, "Hi Dave"
DaveW-1 says, "hello"
john-r says, "a tune up, spark plugs, repaierd a couple og spk wire
connecters" MikeD says, "a tuneup?"
dcarson says, "mine had a leak in the heater, amazingly hard to drive when
the heater is putting steam on the indshield" john-r says, "it was running
rough and missing some" john-r says, "gee Dana, that would be hard to do"
john-r says, "instad of defrosting the Wind shield it was steaming the IN
shield" MikeD says, "those indshields are dangerous, always fogging up"
MikeD says, "they keep obscuring the dubbyas" MikeD says, "now there's an
idea"
john-r says, "dubbyas?"
MikeD says, "dubbya W"
MikeD says, "when I have to explain it, it looses it's impact" MikeD says,
"go watch the superbowl halftime, it might wake you up" Michael arrives.
john-r says, "Hi Michael"
kokhmmm has arrived.
john-r says, "Hi Peter"
MikeD waves at Greg-2, john-r, DaveW, dcarson, DaveW-1, Michael, and
kokhmmm. kokhmmm says, "Hi, all"
kokhmmm reads the meeting agenda
john-r says, "Peter , did you understand my comments on position paper?"
kokhmmm says, "Yes, but don't agree :-)" MikeD notes that Peter joined the
3D team recently Michael says, "hi guys....."
kokhmmm says, "Hi, Michael"
Michael says, "hmm.... is that the position paper you talked about last
meeting? why did I not see it... hmm...." john-r says, "understood, Peter"
MikeD says, "You have Bryce don't you Peter?" kokhmmm says, "Michael, it is
at http://www.lunar-reclamation.org/moonsoc_position_draft1.htm" john-r
says, "So Michael , are you away from home?" MikeD says, "Just in case I
fall asleep, team and mailing lisr infrastructure remains unchanged" MikeD
says, "last i heard, Michael was flying to San Fran" Michael says, "john,
yea. I'm in a hotel in Mt. View right now.... going to dinner with
co-workers soon so I need to make sure the meeting gets started quickly and
tha tI hope I can get my agenda items out first....." Michael says, "peter,
that looks wonderful. I agree that an all text version, possibly with less
content and more "feel goodness" to it is needed. Something like an
executive summary that hits the highlights." Michael reads the meeting
agenda
MikeD reads the meeting agenda
kokhmmm says, "Michael & John, how about an executive summary followed by
the full text like an abstract followed by full paper?" Michael says, "that
sounds perfect..."
Michael had his 20th RFC published today....wheeee....not Michael says, "I
guess we're waiting on Randall?" john-r says, "gee , should i agree with
Michale and Peter or flip a coin :) yes i agree" Michael says, "btw, no
update on the fund raiser stuff. Charles is still getting the answers to
our questions.... particularly the exact setup in terms of TO, us, the
researcher and who pays for what...." dcarson says, "biab"
kokhmmm says, "Michael, while we are waiting, I have an idea for an
orbiting farside radio telescope. It would be in a Molniya type orbit, very
eccentric, spending most of its orbit time within the Moon's shadow cone.
Whadya think? Should I investigate further?" john-r says, "waiting on
Randall, Amy, Nancy, Ian , Arthur , Greg is signed in , but not answering
my page" MikeD says, "how would it communicate with Earth?" kokhmmm says,
"It would store info and dump it on the nearside pass." Michael says, "I
would, just to spec out the orbits and how long it'd be in the cone. I'd
also talk to Charles about whether or not that might be in TO's product
plan." MikeD says, "that makes sense Peter"
Michael nods. That's called "delay tolerant networking" and there are
existing specs and software for doing htat. MikeD says, "how often would it
be in los for communication?" kokhmmm says, "Russians use Molniya orbits
for communications instead of GEO. As the Moon has no synchronous orbit
(other than L4, L5) Molniya orbits are attractive." Michael says, "I didn't
know that..... that's cool...." MikeD says, "do either of you have a url
for info on Molniya orbits?" With a sparkle of transporter light, saavik
appears Michael says, "Mike, google it....."
saavik gets home from class and wonderes which wednesday it is MikeD says,
"duh"
kokhmmm says, "Mike, depends on orbit. Around Earth, an object would be in
a fast perigee about an hour, and spend many hours over the other
hemisphere. Depends on eccentricity. Limited by need to stay within shadow
cone. Not sure how far out that goes." MikeD says, "i get like this when
i'm sleepy" Michael says, "
http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Dictionary/MOLNIYA/DI166.htm"
john-r says, "Amy its the next Wed after last we and the wed before the
next wed" saavik says, "thanks john :-)"
john-r says, "welcome :)"
Michael says, "I assume everyone heard about the good news for Kistler?"
saavik reads the meeting agenda
john-r says, "is it for sure? Michael"
Michael says, "the contract seems to be. yea..... " john-r says, "TY
Michael"
MikeD says, "Kistler?"
kokhmmm says, "No, didn't hear about Kistler. What's up?" Michael says, "
http://rocketforge.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=195&mode=flat&order=0&thold=0"
Severy-4 has arrived.
Severy-4 says, "Evening, folks!"
Michael says, "basically they got NASA to execute that data buy SLI
contract from 2000. $214 million" Michael says, "yay!.... the boss is
here!" Michael says, "and there is $20 million in NASA" Michael says, "doh"
saavik says, "interesting"
john-r says, "Hi Randall"
Michael says, "and there is $20 million in NASA's new budget for prize
based technology demonstrations... it specifically sites the Xprize and
DARPA's robot race." kokhmmm says, "Well that's a change of tune! Last
year, someone at NASA was dumping on all the start-ups." saavik says, "wow"
Michael says, "I think O'Keefe is giving folks "if you don't tow the line
then don't let hte door hit you on your way out" speeches." john-r says,
"Hi Nancy"
Nancy-1 says, "Hi John!"
john-r says, "What happened to Ian?"
Nancy-1 says, "I don't know."
irs arrives.
john-r says, "Hi Ian"
irs says, "Is this the right room for tonight's meeting?" kokhmmm says,
"Speek of the devil!"
john-r says, "sure is Ian"
irs says, "I was elsewhere, but it seemed kinda dead." irs says, "Ah."
MikeD says, "must be the right room Ian, it's full" Nancy-1 says, "Hi Ian!"
john-r says, "since you are late , you get to buy coffee and pop" Greg-2
says, "Ian, right. You left just before I could tell you where the right
place was. :)" irs says, "I get to pop what?"
Scottyg-1 has arrived.
john-r says, "buy the pop, soda pop"
john-r says, "Hi Scotty"
Nancy-1 says, "Hi Scotty!"
MikeD says, "no pop for me thanks"
kokhmmm says, "Hi, Scotty"
Scottyg-1 says, "Hi all! Sorry I'm late. Had a bit of family business to
do." Greg-2 hands Mike a bottle of Bushmill's. saavik says, "haven't missed
any meeting yet so far as I can tell" MikeD says, "nah, can't drink
Bushmills" john-r says, "the recorder is not yet on" Severy-4 says, "Yes,
the recorder is on" john-r says, "but i think the gang is all here ecept
for Arthur" Severy-4 says, "Actually, it's still on from the last meeting
:-)" MikeD says, "lol"
Severy-4 says, "Ok, let's get this meeting under way, although I'm still
settling in from just getting home a few minutes ago" MikeD says, "I hate
it when that happens" john-r says, "talk about dead space :)" Michael reads
the meeting agenda
Severy-4 says, "First up is Michael's fundraising project" Michael says,
"would you guys mind if I flipped the order on the point system and my
other agend a items? I have to run at 10:00 for dinner" Severy-4 says, "No
problem, Michael"
Michael says, "cool...."
irs reads the meeting agenda
MikeD says, "I't only 6:20 Michael"
Michael says, "as far as the fund raiser, no update. Charles is finding hte
answers to our questions from the last meeting. Mostly their torqued around
exactly who pays for what and what role we play." Michael says, "charles
said he'd get back to me soon so until then we're just waiting." Severy-4
says, "Ok, sounds good"
Michael says, "next item:"
Michael says, "reada genda"
Michael reads the meeting agenda
Michael says, "ok, as some of you know I've been selling some stuff on
cafepress.com (cafepress.com/rocketforge to be specific)" saavik reads the
meeting agenda
Michael says, "http://cafeshops.com/rocketforge.9318020 is a bumper sticker
some here might find interesting...." MikeD says, "lol"
Michael says, "the question came up on the MOO about doing this for Moon
Society logo stuff so I made a few as an example. (I think Greg even bought
some)" Michael says, "http://cafeshops.com/rocketforge.9051320 is a Moon
Society coffee mug" Michael says, "the question is: does the Moon Society
want to expand this line of merchandise fo rits members and if so, how does
it want to do that? I asked Tim Cadell and he basically doesn't care since
he doesn't want to carry the inventory." Michael says, "the question is: we
can do it one of two wasy: either license the merchandising rights to me
and I'll run it or b) the Society can simply go to CafePress.com and do the
entire thing itself. Its fairly painless." Michael says, "I intend on
filling out my own line of moon related stuff (like the bumper sticker). I
personally don't care since this isn't something I intend on living off
of.... its just something to play with that's fairly painless and might
make a few bucks" kokhmmm says, "I like the Mug. But the bumper sticker
probably is more fitting for Mars people, where Hohmann orbits are
critical" MikeD says, "Both methods have merits"
Michael says, "peter, I'm not an expert in orbital mechanics so... ;-) I
will be putting a simple two body problem on a mug....." MikeD says, "If
the society does it itself, who'll do the actual maintainance on the
cafepress shop?" john-r says, "does cafepress ask that you carry any
inventory? or do they print each cup or sticker to order?" Michael says,
"for example, this mug: http://cafeshops.com/rocketforge.9318275 has the
standard rocket equation on it. This one has physics constants on it:
http://cafeshops.com/rocketforge.9319198" kokhmmm says, "Michael, I have
all sorts of witty quips that might be useful, and their yours for the
taking. Will email later" Michael says, "john, its all printed to
order...." Michael says, "peter, wonderful! thanks!" irs says, "If the Moon
Society does it, what's our cut of the $4 price for a bumper sticker?"
Michael says, "Mike, the cafepress shop is fairly maintenance free. Once
you setup the images on the item you don't do anything else....." Michael
says, "ian, you can set the price to whatever you want. the base price on
that sticker is $2.99." Michael says, "if you markup your items more than
$15 above the base price they charge a 5% fee." john-r says, "and does cafe
press handle all sales tax issues?" Michael says, "john, cafepress handles
*EVERYTHING*, customer contact, billing, manufacturing, shipping,
everything.... the only thing you do is build the image, decide what
objects to put it on, and cash the check when it comes in." irs says,
"Because I got a mailing today (one of many I get regularly) offering,
amongst other things, bumper stickers starting at $1.50 apiece and going
down from there (that's 75 for $125)." Michael says, "ian, yes, you can get
them cheaper, but cafepress means teh society doesn't have to do any labor
and would carry no inventory." irs says, "One minor point against using
cafepress, Michael, is that we can't develop a mailing list through sales
that way. A list of people willing to buy things from us is a very valuable
resource." MikeD says, "yes, but do you have to keep an inverntory of those
Ian?" irs says, "Just a differing point of view." Michael says, "ian, that
is true.... but you can build an interface that screen scraps the cafepress
site (this is what I'm doing on rocketforge in the top right hand corner)
so that you can get that info before or after the purchase." john-r says,
"thne maybe one of us cold set up a cafe press and and one more to work up
the images, Scotty seems best for settting up account and i could help on
images and such" Michael says, "john, exactly...."
Michael says, "or you could just tell me to go do it all and I would just
charge a 5% commission on each item." john-r says, "if we did it right we
may say you get 5% at your site, i get 5 at mine and those that go to
moonsoc.org gets it all, unless cafe press does not like that idea" Michael
says, "either method is fine with me.... I just wanted the society to be
able to make its logo merchandise available to members...." saavik says,
"do we have a logo that we like to do that?" john-r says, "BUT as board
members do we have any non profit Gov IRS Issues???" Michael says, "john,
its not enough of a money maker to warrant that much work...." saavik says,
"I thought we were still playing with logos" Greg-2 says, "I agree with
Michael on this. The important thing is to make the logo merchandise
available." Arthur arrives.
Greg-2 says, "Yes, we are still playing with logos." Arthur says, "Hi all -
sorry i'm late"
john-r says, "Hi Arthur"
Arthur reads the meeting agenda
saavik says, "but the idea is great in general" kokhmmm says, "Hi, Arthur"
saavik says, "I'm ok with michael doing it - easy peasy for us :-)" Michael
says, "I would suggest you go ahead and make the current logo available on
a select few items just in case....." Scottyg-1 says, "I don't think there
would be a problem re the IRS in paying a commission." Greg-2 says, "My
ancient memory tells me that at the last Moon Society Leadership Council
Meeting, we took some kind of action authorizing Michael to use the Moon
Society trade name for this. Or something. Perhaps we requested a
proposal." john-r says, "Michael, i see your point--Last ? does Cafepress
require any specifed min time to leave the item for sale?" Michael says, "i
think the current one looks pretty good on a mug and mousepad..." kokhmmm
says, "This merchandise could be renewal incentive fodder" Michael says,
"john, nope. Some people setup cafepress shops just for sale to themselves
for a single thing." Michael says, "peter, yep...."
Michael says, "transorbital has one already: cafeshops.com/transorbital "
Michael says, "I already have a transorbital hat being delivered.... ;-)"
Greg-2 says, "So, what do we need to do with the question of whether
Michael should offer Moon Society stuff on his cafepress site?" saavik
says, "or make our own?"
Michael doesn't know exactly....
MikeD says, "as i said both methods have merit, but if Michael is going to
be the person maintaining the shop, then he should probably get a
commission" kokhmmm says, "Would our members be more motivated to buy if
they knew it was our site?" Greg-2 says, "Amy, right. The options mentioned
so far are: (a) Micheal does this. (b) Ian does this. (c) The Moon Society
does this as some sort of committee function." Greg-2 says, "I see no
conflict among those three options. We could do them all." kokhmmm says,
"The problem with committee functions is just that - we need one person in
charge, period" saavik nods.
MikeD says, "They would look more official on our own site" john-r says,
"or each one of us, i would like a 5% of something in lieu of twice
randalls pay :)" MikeD says, "which makes it *notacommittee*" Michael says,
"Mike, you can make it look official on the society site fairly easily....
its just some javascript." Greg-2 says, "We could grant Michael a
non-exclusive license to produce and market Moon Society branded
merchandise through his cafepress site. We could also authorize Ian to set
up shop selling Moon Society merchandise." saavik says, "one shop seems
enough?"
saavik says, "why not have moon society do it via michael?" Greg-2 says,
"Yup, one shop seems enough to me." saavik says, "I mean, he is on the bod"
Michael says, "yea..... if the society was going to do it I would just link
to that instead of doing it myself..." saavik says, "so michael if you do
it, you want commission?" kokhmmm says, "Shouldn't limit number of shops.
Other people may have their own merchandise ideas" Greg-2 says, "I can
think of no reason not to authorize Michael to peddle Moon Society branded
merchandise." Michael says, "hmm.... I think you want to keep control of
what gets the logo..... " Greg-2 says, "Yeah, board approval and all that."
Greg-2 says, "You keep 5%. Of what? Gross, or net?" Michael says, "i.e.
someone may want to put the logo on something questionable.... like a bare
breast during the super bowl." MikeD says, "lol"
MikeD says, "it wasn't bare"
MikeD says, "it was very scantilly clad" Michael says, "Greg, 5% above the
base cost that cafepress sets....." Michael says, "it had a borg implant on
it!" Greg-2 says, "Might I suggest we leave the topic of Janet Jackson's
boobs to another time and place? :)" john-r says, "gee, i am tired of that
side track - the superbowl stuff that is" saavik says, "please do"
Michael says, "anyway.... how 'bout we do this: authorize me to do it for
5% commission above the base price for 3 months with board approval for all
items before they're made available. at the end of that time we
re-evaluate." john-r says, "GOOOOD Point, that has my voter" kokhmmm says,
"Sounds good to me"
Michael says, "non-exclusive"
saavik says, "aye"
MikeD says, "yup"
Michael says, "ok, someone besides me needs to turn that into a motion. I
hate motions about myself.... ;-)" kokhmmm says, "Michael, let me know if
and when you want an announcement of your cafeshop in MMM" Scottyg-1 says,
"Lets be slightly more specific...." Michael says, "thank you scotty! ;-)"
Greg-2 says, "So, directors, I move that the Moon Society authorize Michael
Mealling to market Moon Society branded merchandise on his cafepress site,
with the understanding that Michael will obtain approval for the associated
imagery from the Society board, and that Michael will retain 5% of proceeds
above the cafepress charges, with the remaining proceeds going to the Moon
Society." Greg-2 notes that Scotty is about to come up with something
better. Scottyg-1 says, "Just a small change....." saavik says, "and that
you reevalute in 3 months" Michael says, "greg, in that scenario there are
no proceeds to the society....." MikeD says, "so is that 5% of gross or 5%
of markup?" Greg-2 says, "Aw, we can reevaluate it in any time." Greg-2
says, "But I'll accept as a friendly amendment to the motion: This
agreement may be canceled by either Michael or the Moon Society BOD with 30
days notice to the other party." Michael says, "if the society wants to
make money off of it then I would suggest that the society run it since teh
logistics of writing such small checks to the society would be a PITA"
Scottyg-1 says, "I move that the Moon Society authorize Michael Mealling to
market Moon Society branded merchandise on his cafepress site, with the
understanding that Michael will obtain approval for the associated imagery
from the Society board, and that Michael will retain 5% of the difference
between the selling price and the cost charged by cafepress, with the
remaining proceeds going to the Moon Society." john-r says, "Michael, you
mean that the 5% figure was based on a moon society site that you would set
up?" Greg-2 says, "Michael, now I understand. I thought the price was more
than 5% higher than what cafepress charges." saavik is confused
john-r says, "me too"
Greg-2 says, "'smatter, Amy?"
saavik says, "where is michael setting up?" MikeD says, "markup is
generally about 25 to 33 %" saavik says, "(and why is there a monkey on
cnbc???)" john-r says, "Amy- Please no sidetracks :)" Greg-2 says,
"Michael's Mug on Michael's cafepress site:
http://cafeshops.com/rocketforge.9051320" Michael says, "john, the 5% was
all of the markup above cost (called margin). I would get that and the
society would get nothing. Cafepress isn't setup to send money to more than
one entity. if the society wants this to generate income then hte society
should run the shop itself and get the money sent directly to it." MikeD
says, "there's always a monkey on cnbc" saavik says, "lol, I know"
Michael has to run in 5 minutes.....
saavik says, "ok, so we should do it so the society gets money?" Michael
says, "amy, if that is the goal, yes....." MikeD says, "what is the goal,
getting money? or getting our name spread around?" irs says, "You mean this
ISN'T a fund-raiser for the Moon Society? That's absurd. If we're not
getting a mailing list, we have to be getting some money out of it. Mark it
up 20% above cafepress's costs, split the difference between the Society
and Michael." john-r says, "really Both"
Greg-2 says, "I don't really think having the Moon Society earn money is
important at this time.Scotty, would you accept as a friend amendment: "...
remaining proceeds, if any, going to the Moon Society." ?" MikeD says, "In
that case you would have to stipulate that proceeds are payable about once
every 6 to 12 months" Michael says, "ian, I could do that but I'd only
write a check to the society on a quarterly basis...." Michael says, "what
Mike said...."
kokhmmm says, "Geting our name spread around IS sokmething, especially if
the URL is there too. Essential for growth, and that growth will give us
REAL money. We can afford to get nothing for the merchandise IMHO" saavik
says, "or if the society set it up and you did it, they would send you a
check?" Greg-2 says, "I'm not against the Society earning money. I just
don't think the proceeds from this venture would be worth the cost of the
time we have already invested in it." Michael says, "amy, if the society
set it up I wouldn't get anything (maybe a tiny referral fee from cafepress
but that's inconsequential)" john-r says, "Since Michael has to go and we
need some advertising, let Michael run with it for some time and , since he
found it, and we can review other options???" MikeD says, "Or if we just
have the society do it, then the society makes a couple of bucks a year"
john-r says, "what Greg said"
Michael says, "How 'bout this: I go ahead and set it up with the current
logo so you guys can get a feel for how it works. We'll look it over
between now and the next meeting and we can make a decision then." kokhmmm
says, "Llet Michael do it and keep the money so long as our URL is on
everything" Scottyg-1 says, "I don't think I would have any problem with us
setting up an account with cafepress. But I'd want to look at it a little
closer to decide for sure." saavik says, "nod, sounds like a plan michael"
john-r says, "What Michael said"
saavik says, "let him run to his dinner" Greg-2 says, "If we do it the easy
way, then we happily take advantage of Michael's time to do all the work.
That appeals to me." kokhmmm says, "Thanks, Michael! Bon appetit!" Michael
says, "in the mean time someone else should go setup a cafepress shop to
see how easy it is... if you don't have more than one of any item its 100%
free." Scottyg-1 says, "I think the time consuming thing is creating the
artworks." john-r says, "that has merit Greg , as long as Michael is
nonexclusive" Michael says, "Scotty, yep!"
Michael says, "ok guys.... I'm outa here for the night.... I'll be back on
latter when I get back...." Greg-2 says, "Right... slip "nonexclusive"
wherever it fits in whichever motion we are considering." Michael says,
"thanks for taking the time on this!" Greg-2 says, "G'night, Michael!"
MikeD says, "night"
john-r says, "A0OK Michael, enjoy dinner" john-r says, "A-OK"
kokhmmm says, "NEXT?"
Severy-4 says, "Ok, moving on to the point system. Has everyone read the
materials linked to from the agenda?" john-r says, "i have most of it"
Greg-2 says, "I'm lazy, Randall. Can you give me a URL for the agenda? :)"
DaveW-1 reads the meeting agenda
Severy-4 says, "http://www.moonsociety.org/private/leaders/agenda.html"
Greg-2 says, "Thanks!"
john-r steps a way for a min
Greg-2 says, "Randall, are these the same point system charts we looked at
last time?" Severy-4 says, "Yes"
Severy-4 says, "But some people here tonight weren't around last time"
saavik missed it but will read now
saavik says, "http://www.moonsociety.org/private/leaders/agenda.html" MikeD
says, "they're still not tailored to our needs" Greg-2 says, "Oops! Right!
We weren't us last time. We were them." Severy-4 says, "No, I haven't
changed them in any way, Mike" MikeD says, "no, this is from the time
before the last time when we were in fact us" MikeD says, "I think"
Severy-4 says, "We still need to come up with worthwhile point assignments
for us" MikeD says, "that 24 - 30 hours a year has to go for a start" MikeD
says, "more like 24 - 30 hours a month" Severy-4 says, "I haven't done
anything new in this area, so we don't need to discuss this at length
tonight, but if anyone has suggestions for point categories or questions
about the point system, please send an e-mail to the leaders list" MikeD
says, "ok"
MikeD says, "I'll look at it tomorrow/today/this morning" john-r says,
"back"
MikeD says, "after I wake up, before James get's his hooks into me"
Severy-4 chuckles.
Severy-4 says, "Ok, are there any questions on the point system for right
now? If not, we'll move on..." john-r says, "non from me"
MikeD says, "Speaking of James, 3 members have been asked to help on 3D
animations for Chip Proser's movie" saavik says, "looks cool"
irs says, "Hmm. Heard from him a couple months back, that he was going to
try to pitch Artemis Magazine and the Project as series television. Said
he'd call in a week or two when he was back in the country... then
nothing." Severy-4 says, "Ok, moving on to Membership Services" saavik
says, "so what happens with points?" Severy-4 says, "Scotty/Arthur/Greg?"
saavik says, "moves to next time?"
MikeD says, "we think about them"
Severy-4 says, "Yes, Amy, send any questions or suggestions to the leaders
list" MikeD looses 3 points for failing to give a turn signal in the
Leadership Council Chambers Greg-2 says, "Memberships are being serviced.
Nancy has Missy's report." Scottyg-1 says, "Nothing new from here on
membership, unless we include Peter's suggestion about automatic renewal
from last meeting in this category." Nancy-1 says, "Missy had six renews
this week. She also completely cleared out Help Director and has kept up
with it through the week." Nancy-1 says, "I've also have in on good
authority that the bumper stickers are on their way! :)" MikeD says, "There
was a little hiccup" Greg-2 says, "(Footnote: Nancy still needs access to
this room. She's on the list, but it's not working.)" MikeD says, "Is eh on
the list or on the team?" Nancy-1 says, "She is still waiting for the
posters." Severy-4 says, "I don't see her in the team, Greg, this room is
tied to the Leadership Council team in Team Director" MikeD says, "that
would be the problem" Greg-2 says, "Hmm... I'll check."
MikeD says, "Is Missy aware of the little problem with DaveW's account over
the weekend?" Nancy-1 says, "I'm not sure. Could you fill me in?" Greg-2
says, "I added Nancy to the Team." Greg-2 says, "Is her Moon Society
membership linked to her MOO identity?" MikeD says, "when his account was
updated after renewal, his username got deleted" Greg-2 says, "Deleted from
where, Mike?" MikeD says, "From the Team Director database" Greg-2 says,
"Rats. That sounds like a database glitch." Severy-4 says, "No, Nancy's MOO
identity is not linked to her Moon Society membership, since she didn't
create her MOO account through the ASI MOO" Severy-4 says, "What's her
member number? I'll update her MOO account" Greg-2 says, "Nancy is member
number 1307." MikeD says, "James tells me that accidentally deleting a
username is not difficult" Nancy-1 says, "Scotty, how could a username just
get deleted?" Severy-4 says, "When DaveW's membership renewal was
processed, his username was deleted when his member record was updated"
Severy-4 says, "If the username field is cleared out when a member record
is updated" Severy-4 says, "The password field was left alone" Severy-4
says, "Ok, Nancy's MOO account is now linked to her Moon Society membership
record" saavik says, "yeah, mine are funky too" Greg-2 says, "Thanks,
Randall."
Nancy-1 says, "But she doesn't enter anything in the username field."
saavik says, "ever since I renewed last time, my emails about new MMM's has
blank user and passwords" Nancy-1 says, "Thanks, Randall."
Greg-2 says, "Could it have been an error in transmitting the data from her
web browser to Team Director?" saavik says, "but since I can still log on
the moo, I never complained :-)" MikeD says, "I would have thought the
username and password fields would be inaccessible" Scottyg-1 says,
"Randall, could this be related to the separate username/password scheme
for admins?" Arthur says, "Amy, mine have blanks too - thought it was
normal" Severy-4 says, "No, Scotty, DaveW doesn't have an admin account"
saavik says, "so yours say N/A in the emails?" saavik says, "maybe just the
form is broken" Severy-4 says, "Amy, you have an admin account, so it's
different" Severy-4 says, "Team Director admin accounts do not have
retrievable passwords, for obvious reasons, so they can't be included in
e-mails" john-r says, "Mike do me a favor please go to
moonsociety.org/teamdir do a list of all members, sort on member number,
and let me know when you are done" saavik says, "ahhh"
Severy-4 says, "Greg, I can't imagine why the browser would transmit all
other fields correctly but leave out the username field" Greg-2 says, "I'm
trying to imagine a reason that Missy would have even clicked in that
field." MikeD says, "Done John"
Nancy-1 says, "I can't think of any reason Missy would have to click that
field." Severy-4 says, "Does she click on fields or tab through them?"
john-r says, "Mike look at member 1310 and 1311 see anything strange?"
Nancy-1 says, "She navigates with the side bar." MikeD says, "3 x 1310 and
1 x 1311 all with the same name" Severy-4 says, "If you tab through fields
you can accidentally hit the space bar to wipe out a field" john-r says,
"ohh Randall - we have another issue" Severy-4 says, "Yup, I see it, John"
MikeD says, "quadruplicate entries"
Arthur says, "FYI Charles Radley's in the commons and had some comments
about the radiometer project. Should I copy them here?" Severy-4 says,
"missy [Sat Jan 17 11:40:15 2004] Added Member Michael Thomas Davies
(1310)" Severy-4 says, "missy [Sat Jan 17 11:40:18 2004] Added Member
Michael Thomas Davies (1310)" Severy-4 says, "missy [Sat Jan 17 11:40:35
2004] Added Member Michael Thomas Davies (1310)" Greg-2 says, "(Nancy is
asking Missy about her technique.)" john-r says, "i am listening to commons
and saw it" Severy-4 says, "missy [Sat Jan 17 11:40:14 2004] Changed Next
Member Number to 1311" Severy-4 says, "missy [Sat Jan 17 11:40:18 2004]
Changed Next Member Number to 1311" Severy-4 says, "missy [Sat Jan 17
11:40:35 2004] Changed Next Member Number to 1311" Severy-4 says, "missy
[Wed Jan 21 21:11:34 2004] Added Member Michael Thomas Davies (1311)"
Severy-4 says, "missy [Wed Jan 21 21:12:27 2004] Added Payment for Michael
Thomas Davies (1311)" Severy-4 says, "Looks like Missy got a bit
trigger-happy on the Add button :-(" Severy-4 says, "Does Missy sometimes
have a slow connection and click a button more than once?" MikeD says, "or
she may have had reason to believe it wasn't updating" Greg-2 says,
"Obviously something happened. She was having difficulty with the "next
member number" setting." dcarson says, "back"
kokhmmm says, "that could be it Mike. Sometimes it takes forever to get the
"updated" confirmation" Severy-4 says, "Or does she have multiple browser
windows open with different Team Director screens in them?" Greg-2 says,
"No, she doesn't do multiple browser windows." Arthur [Commons]: cfrjlr
says, "OK. WE apologize for the delay. In order to develop a financial
proposal, the Board of Transorbital is missing some pieces of info from the
Italian group. Dr. Maccone is unable to provide the info this week, we are
hoping to hear back from him next week." Arthur [Commons]: cfrjlr says, "As
for the questions of technical credibility and feasibility, I have
collected resumes of all the team members, and will submit them when the
finanical informaiton is complete" Severy-4 says, "Because it looks like
she changed the member number to 1311 and *then* added member 1310, which
can only happen if another browser window already has the Add screen for
new member 1310 open" MikeD says, "does the database not reject multiple
entries with the same number?" Severy-4 says, "No, Mike, this hasn't been a
problem before :-(" MikeD says, "What browser is Missy using?" Arthur
[Commons]: cfrjlr says, "FYI Dr. Maccone will be in Los Angeles (Orange
County) on Feb 22nd if anybody is interested" MikeD says, "Could a tabbed
browser do that?" Arthur says, "I was using a tabbed browser with
membership stuff last year - but I can't say I did nearly as much as Missy
has" john-r says, "Now that Randall has the info , do we need to hold and
let him work thru the issue, or go on?" MikeD says, "not sure"
john-r says, "just wondering :)"
Nancy-1 says, "We're talking to Missy now." john-r steps away
MikeD says, "for a start, he would actually have to know what number was
sent to that member" Scottyg-1 says, "Resetting the next member number
should be done with extreme care, and should only be rarely necessary."
MikeD says, "unless both, in which case he gets 2 seats on the rocket"
Greg-2 says, "After talking with Missy, the conclusion is that we need to
telecon with Scotty some time soon so that we will all understand the flow
of data from the accounting system." Scottyg-1 says, "If you set it back to
an already used number, the system will use the number again." MikeD says,
"resetting uses a manual input?" MikeD says, "dumb question, of course it
does" Scottyg-1 says, "I think in over 3 years, I've only had to reset the
number once." Severy-4 says, "Yes, resetting the next member number should
only be necessary if something got fouled up somehow" Greg-2 says, "Yes,
something caused a glitch in the next member number right then." Greg-2
says, "She reset the next member number per Randall's instructions."
Scottyg-1 says, "IIRC, the case I ran into was accidentally entering the
same member twice. When i deleted the extra entry, I reset the next member
number to avoid skipping a number." Greg-2 says, "Missy has had that
experience, too." irs says, "This isn't a discussion I can contribute
anything useful to, and the market does open kinda early. Ought I to stick
around for anything else?" Scottyg-1 says, "But if you reset the next
number, the responsibility is on you to get it right." saavik needs to head
out soon
Greg-2 says, "In her case, it was a member who renewed, but had paid as a
new member." saavik says, "what else do you need from the secretary?" MikeD
says, "could the next number not be (the highest number in the file) + 1 ?"
Scottyg-1 says, "Ok, I think this should be taken up at another time."
Severy-4 says, "Mike, the next number is automatically incremented when you
add a member" Severy-4 says, "And yes, this should be taken up at another
time" saavik reads the meeting agenda
Greg-2 says, "Yeah, what Scotty said. We need to look in more detail at the
membership data entry process and make sure we have it right." Severy-4
says, "Ok, moving on to Flyer and Brochure, any updates, Ian or Greg?"
Greg-2 says, "No progress here."
kokhmmm says, "NEXT is Society flyer & brochure" Scottyg-1 says, "Randall,
can I make a comment about automatic membership renewal?" john-r says,
"back"
Severy-4 says, "Sure, Scotty"
Scottyg-1 says, "I checked our merchant account agreement. The only
requirement to do recurring billings is that you must have authorization in
writing." Scottyg-1 says, "So we could do automatic renewal using credit
cards." john-r says, "does that mean someone has to snail mail an
agreement?" MikeD says, "in writing and signed manually?" Severy-4 says,
"Sounds like something worth pursuing, Scotty" kokhmmm says, "Scotty, we
could have a cgi-bin form" Scottyg-1 says, "Well, the agreement isn't
specific...it only say "in writing"" kokhmmm says, "A downloadable pdf form
snail-mailed back?" MikeD says, "is a digital signiature acceptable in a
court of law?" john-r says, "so we can discuss at a later date?" Scottyg-1
says, "The safest thing would be a signed form." Greg-2 says, "I agree. In
this case, paper is our defense against chargebacks stemming from
surprises." Scottyg-1 says, "A digital signature is acceptable, but few
people actually know how to do that." MikeD says, "hardcopy then"
john-r says, "One last thing for membership and randall and scotty - in the
all members list number 1315 is missing" Severy-4 says, "So what would be
involved in automatic renewal, Scotty?" Scottyg-1 says, "That comes from
resetting the next member number incorrectly or from deleting a member."
MikeD says, "would it bw worth sending them a form and a prepaid addressed
envelope when they join or renew?" kokhmmm says, "Virtual signatures are
acceptable. We all do it when we buy/order something over the Internet.
I've gotten into automatic bills without signing anything, just giving a
CC# with exp. date" kokhmmm says, "Mike, I like that idea!" john-r says,
"Peter i got caught bad in a auto renwal use of my credit card" MikeD says,
"you could use those folding card things" Scottyg-1 says, "We are suppposed
to send out a welcome letter anyway, so including an authorization form
wouldn't take much effort." kokhmmm says, "One option on the join page
could be "send me an authorization card for automatic renewals"" john-r
says, "anyway can we get back to flyer, before Ian's sleep bell rings?"
MikeD says, "and if we make is painless and costless to return it, maybe
they will" john-r says, "and my sleep bell"
MikeD says, "my sleep bell rang hours ago" kokhmmm says, "Scotty, do you
have a minimum monthly level in mind?" $5? $10?" Scottyg-1 says, "Randall,
lets discuss the mechanics and come back with a complete proposal on this."
Scottyg-1 says, "Peter, I wouldn't charge monthly." saavik says, "I'm
heading out"
Severy-4 says, "Ok, Scotty"
saavik says, "I assume secretary is done?" MikeD says, "not if Ian has
anything on the flyer" john-r says, "Nite Amy"
Scottyg-1 says, "Each transaction incurs a $0.30 transaction fee." kokhmmm
says, "But, I'd rather contribute monthly, and I believe you will get few
takers for auto-renewal a year off." MikeD says, "and for $35 a year, it's
not worth splitting it in 12" Saavik heads back to the Enterprise for the
night saavik has disconnected.
kokhmmm says, "I was talking about a $5 ore $10 minimum, Mike i.e. $60 or
$120 a year. That was the original idea" Scottyg-1 says, "But why should
someone send us $5 or $10 per month when he can get the same thing for $35
per year?" kokhmmm [to contribute]: to the effort at a higher level,
probably for some merchandise incentive Scottyg-1 says, "Unless you are
looking at it as a donation." MikeD says, "If I went for auto renewal, I'd
prefer annual, but with one stipulation, I need written notification 14 to
31 days before payment" john-r says, "maybe fosay give a life membership in
12 easy monthly payments, and if they stop before paid, then they have n
years paid for" kokhmmm says, "That is the whole reason the Planetary
Society is doing this - more money, much more." john-r says, "Peter, you
mean strait out donations over and above dues?" kokhmmm says, "Not over and
above, but including dues" john-r says, "ahhh"
dcarson says, "life membership over 2 years would be $29.17 a month" MikeD
says, "huh?"
MikeD says, "that would be a good deal" Greg-2 says, "Neat idea."
kokhmmm says, "Only caveat about life membership is I can't guarantee to
keep kicking out MMMs over the lifetime of any other member but myself :-)"
DaveW-1 would probably go for that
The housekeeper arrives to cart saavik off to bed. john-r says, "Humm,
Peter we may want special notes in the 1 or 2 yr life member, in respect to
MMM, or any future newsletter" MikeD wonders about making a digital backup
of Peter john-r says, "BTW at next meeting can we know how many seniors or
students have joined in the last several months"" Nancy ??" kokhmmm says,
"Anyway, domestic mailing is now down to 245. So we may become an all
electronic newsletter within another year or so if slide continues" Nancy-1
says, "Yes, John. I can ask Missy this week." MikeD says, "we need to
drastically increase our visibility" kokhmmm says, "Does Team Director now
keep tabs of Senior/student memberships?" john-r says, "Mike if we scan
Peter on the doplet full size super duper model, then that may just work
:)" MikeD hmms.
Greg-2 says, "Hmm... are we trying to make a decison or descending into
silliness? (I can go either way!)" john-r says, "TY Nancy"
MikeD says, "I was thinking of just making a carbon copy" Scottyg-1 says,
"Peter, yes - Team Director recognizes that member class." john-r says,
"Scotty is there a report that generats the list of only seniors/students?"
Scottyg-1 says, "Not to my knowledge John." MikeD says, "dunno, it would be
new it there is one" Scottyg-1 says, "But you can download the database
into a spreadsheet and sort it any way you like." kokhmmm says, "NEXT
topic?"
john-r says, "true, i have tried that a time or 2" john-r says, "yes, next
topic"
Severy-4 says, "Ok, Help Desk is next"
MikeD says, "John, that filter doesn't exist yet" Severy-4 says, "Any
updates on help desk status?" MikeD says, "can I just state for the record
that Team And Mailing List status remains unchanged since last time" MikeD
says, "that way I can fall of the chair and go to sleep" kokhmmm says,
"Goodnight, Mike"
MikeD says, "night folks"
Severy-4 says, "Well, seeing as it is now after 11 EST, how about if I just
open up the rest of the agenda for discussion" Severy-4 says, "Is there
anything on the rest of the agenda that someone needs to talk about
tonight?" MikeD says, "sorry, but I have to bring a kid to school in a
little over 4 hours" john-r says, "My relates to the images for the flyer"
john-r says, "Nite Mike"
irs says, "Flyer is still in Greg's in-box." kokhmmm says, "I'm still
working on the India contest. Need to contribute a form" irs says, "I gotta
get going. Good night, all." irs has disconnected.
john-r says, "Nite Ian"
Scottyg-1 says, "Where do we stand on the term limits question?" john-r
says, "and i need a reminder, is the flyer a moon society flyer? and are
there any of the artemis project images on it?" kokhmmm says, "Would like
everyone to look at the position paper draft at
http://www.lunar-reclamation.org/moonsoc_position_draft1.htm" Scottyg-1
says, "Specifically, does *someone* have term limits as an AI?" kokhmmm
says, "good night all, must go." kokhmmm has disconnected.
john-r says, "Nite Peter"
john-r says, "AI??"
Severy-4 says, "Term limits is on Greg's plate, I think" john-r says,
"Action Item?"
Scottyg-1 says, "Greg?"
Greg-2 says, "Randall, yes, we were going to drop that off the agenda until
I have something to present." Greg-2 says, "And I don't. :)"
The housekeeper arrives to cart irs off to bed. Greg-2 says, "John, all the
images on the flyer are Artemis Project images." Greg-2 says, "Is that a
problem?"
Scottyg-1 says, "The agenda is becoming very unwieldy." john-r says, "anty
Greg, now the shuttle is nearing its demise, and say we go to a delta 4
heavy, will the habitat still have the flat side?????" Greg-2 says, "Yeah.
It might help if we planned each meeting more carefully." john-r says,
"anty= ty thankyou"
The housekeeper arrives to cart kokhmmm off to bed. john-r says, "the flat
side relats to the flyer and the model i am trying to make in my soare
time" john-r says, "spare"
Greg-2 says, "The flat side of the habitat shows up in other parts of the
mission scenario, so we'd stick with it if we were in final design right
now. It's where we package external equipment for launch and where we store
the ascent stage for the return to Earth." john-r says, "Planning does
work, but neww items keep poping up" Greg-2 says, "Somewhere in one of
those documents I extol the virtues of that odd shape." Greg-2 says, "So
for now, it ain't broke, and there's no reason to fix it. :)" john-r says,
"so it works well for a delta 4 inside a farring- a-ok, thats what i wanted
to be sure of TY" Greg-2 says, "YW"
john-r says, "i have seen the adb writeup on the flat side" Scottyg-1 says,
"Sometimes I think we're guilty of jumping on every bandwagon that passes
by. As a result we get spread so thin that nothing much gets done." Greg-2
says, "Scotty, what you said, but strike "sometimes"." Scottyg-1 says, "It
would be better to do a few things well than a lot of things poorly or not
at all." john-r says, "Now on the flyer and the May(4 mths away) are we
going to do a real slick printing vs copy machine- and how much time is
needed to get to a printer" Greg-2 says, "Yup."
Scottyg-1 says, "Randall, I have a suggestion...." Greg-2 says, "We weren't
planning on doing a print run." Greg-2 says, "I was just going to update
the existing PDF files on the web and let folks print 'em however." john-r
says, "just a copy machine run then" Scottyg-1 says, "Any agenda item that
goes 3 months without action is automatically dropped." Greg-2 says, "...
however they can."
Greg-2 says, "Maybe do a color version as well as B&W version so that they
could be run off on a color printer." Greg-2 says, "Good idea, Scotty. Or
just move it to cold storage." john-r says, "Scotty on agenda items, that
works for the ones we get 2 but its been a moonth or more since mine have
made it to discussion" dcarson says, "color for putting up on notice boards
would be good, b&w for handing out" john-r says, "ok that solves the
timetable on flyer and ISDC" DaveW-1 says, "is there going to be any
official moonsociety participation in the "return to the moon" conference
in Vegas this year?" john-r says, "I wonder if one band wagon we need to
discuss is this presential commission of Pres Bush?? its going to happen in
several months vs years" john-r says, "was it the ret to moon that we tried
to help on last yr, and it ended up canciled??" DaveW-1 says, "could be"
john-r says, "Randall, are you still planning on ISDC This yr?" Scottyg-1
says, "John, thats sort of the point...." john-r says, "which point
Scotty??"
john-r says, "my bringing up the pres commission??" Scottyg-1 says, "No,
about the agenda." john-r says, "ahhhh ok"
Severy-4 says, "Yes, John, I'm hoping to make it to ISDC this year" john-r
says, "i am tring to, since its only a 8-10 hr drive" Scottyg-1 says, "I
might be able to make ISDC this year." DaveW-1 says, "where is the ISDC
this year?" john-r says, "my pont being, what all do we need to do in the
next 2 months to prep, as opposed to last yr we did it 4 weeks befire the
show :)" Scottyg-1 says, "Oklahoma City is my understanding." john-r says,
"yup"
DaveW-1 says, "ok"
Severy-4 says, "Well, we have four months before ISDC, John" john-r says,
"smiling, i know its 4 months, but why wait for 4 weeks" Severy-4 says,
"We've got a while before 4 weeks :-)" john-r says, "the flyers is one main
issue, any other ideas hopped for?" john-r says, "hoped"
john-r says, "did we have a table last yr?" Greg-2 says, "Are we talking
about the ISDC or the Return to the Moon conference?" john-r says, "ISDC is
what Randall and i are on" Greg-2 says, "OK"
john-r says, "And did any one see my asi list comment on having a moon soc
gala or some diner thing at ISDC ??" Severy-4 says, "Yes, we had a table
last year" john-r says, "and did it cost some one, or was there a cost ?"
Severy-4 says, "I don't remember, John" Severy-4 says, "Scotty, do you
remember if we paid for the ISDC table last year?" Scottyg-1 says, "Yeah, I
think it was something like $50." Severy-4 says, "That sounds about right"
john-r says, "so anything else this evening?" Severy-4 says, "Not from me"
john-r says, "for me anyway?"
john-r says, "Then i should get some sleep" john-r says, "TY and Night All"
john-r has disconnected.
Arthur says, "Hmm, goodnight from me too then" Arthur leaves.
The housekeeper arrives to cart john-r off to bed. DaveW-1 leaves.
Scottyg-1 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Scottyg-1. Greg-2 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Greg-2. Nancy-1 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Nancy-1. Michael has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to cart Michael off to bed.

-- End log: Thursday, February 5, 2004 12:13:45 am ASI Meeting Server time--