-- Start log: Wednesday, March 3, 2004 9:07:52 pm ASI Meeting Server time-- 

Greg-2 says, "Apparently so!"
Greg-2 says, "So, it's March 3, 2004, and this is the meeting of the Moon
Society Leadership Council." Scottyg-1 has arrived.
Greg-2 says, "The agenda for this meeting has not been updated since last
week. I propose that we skip the first 7 items and pick them up at the end
of the meeting if anyone is interested and time is available." Greg-2 says,
"Any objection to that?"
Greg-2 says, "Hi Scotty!"
Nancy-1 says, "Hi Scotty!"
Greg-2 says, "Hearing no objection... we will proceed to agenda item #8
Membership Services." dcarson reads the meeting agenda
kokhmmm has arrived.
Greg-2 says, "You can see the numbered items at
http://www.moonsocity.org/private/leaders/agenda.html" kokhmmm says, "Hi
Guys"
Greg-2 says, "Evening, Peter!"
john-r says, "Hi Peter"
john-r will be right back.
Nancy-1 says, "27 renewal/new members in January" john-r has disconnected.
Nancy-1 says, "10 renewals 1 new membership in February. " Nancy-1 says,
"So far, there are 4 renewals for March, and Help Director is up to date."
Nancy-1 says, "Predrag Lezaic is still receiving auto renewal notices. His
account looks ok, so we're not sure how to correct this." kokhmmm says,
"Nancy, how many non-renewals or late renewals? Can you tell?" Nancy-1
says, "No, Peter, I can't tell that." Greg-2 says, "There's probably a way
to query the database to find out, and Scotty could probably tell us how to
do that." john-r has connected.
john-r leaves.
john-r arrives.
kokhmmm says, "John, you are an in and out sort of guy!" Scottyg-1 says,
"Late renewals may not be possible. We'd need to ask Randall." john-r
waiting on Ian and getting ready for bed john-r says, "yup Peter"
Scottyg-1 says, "Non-renewals should be possible, but we can't create our
own queries - Randall has to create them for us." john-r says, "geting
ready for travel to wright patt for moon to mars 2nd day of 2nd meet"
Greg-2 says, "OK, so we'll table that question until we have increase in
the localazed density of severyness here." Greg-2 says, "localized, too"
Greg-2 says, "Also on Memebership Processing, I've sent the draft contract
to Missy. We'll need to check over the wording carefully to make sure
everything is covered." Greg-2 says, "Anything else on that agenda item for
tonight?" Greg-2 says, "Item 9 -- Moon Society Flyer -- I'm working on that
now." Greg-2 says, "I expect I will have that done this week." dcarson
says, "if you have it by friday email it to me and I'll put some at Johncon
at Hopkins" Greg-2 says, "I'll give it a shot, Dana! I plan to just put it
on line as a PDF." dcarson says, "email url then"
Greg-2 says, "Right."
Arthur arrives.
Arthur says, "Hi all"
dcarson says, "helo"
Greg-2 says, "In any case, the old flyer is 99% serviceable. There are no
errors; the main problem is that it doesn't mention students and seniors
and is just a quick adaptation of the Artemis Society International flyer."
Arthur says, "just got kids to bed"
kokhmmm says, "Greg, I'll put the pdf on the space chapter hub" Greg-2
says, "Thanks, Peter."
Arthur reads the meeting agenda
Greg-2 says, "Anything else on item 9 tonight?" Greg-2 says, "Item 10 is
Help Desk. Anybody got anything on that?" Nancy-1 says, "The membership
services part of this has been covered. :)" Greg-2 says, "Yup!"
Greg-2 says, "OK, so, if there's nothing else on Help Desk..." Greg-2 says,
"Item 11 is the mailing lists. Is there anything new on that? Do we expect
to see anything new in the near future? Shall we drop that from the
agenda?" Greg-2 says, "(Is Greg talking to himself?)" Nancy-1 says, "Yes!"
Greg-2 says, "LOL"
kokhmmm says, "No input from me!"
Greg-2 says, "Thanks, Peter! At least we know that Wisconsin is still
there! :)" Arthur says, "No Randall, no Amy tonight?" Greg-2 says, "No Amy
tonight. Randall will be late." kokhmmm says, "That leaves out Item 12"
Greg-2 says, "Yes, we'll defer item 12 unless John has something." Greg-2
says, "Item 13 is the Chapters Update." Greg-2 says, "Got something there,
Peter?" kokhmmm says, "Brigham Young University student chapter (Utah) and
St. Louis remain our most active clusters" kokhmmm says, "A Hungary effort
has begun and is listed" Arthur says, "I enjoy hearing from the St Louis
chapter when they invite me to meetings :-)" Greg-2 says, "Neat! Are they
doing anything? Should they get some attention on the front page of the
web?" kokhmmm says, "I querries all the other contacts, and nothing is
going on" Greg-2 says, "Do you suppose it's because folks don't know what
to do?" kokhmmm says, "St.Louis is doing activism on behalf of the Bush
initiative and helping me put together an expanded Moon Book List" Greg-2
says, "Boffo!"
kokhmmm says, "Dave Dietzler of St. Louis is my leading MMM contributor"
Greg-2 says, "I suppose the book list is something we would announce when
it's done, but it also mgiht be neat to have a web form where folks can
suggest titles." kokhmmm says, "Yes. I've had input from Ian and John. Best
location is the present booklist on the ADB if I can figure out how to
blend it in, then a front page link on Moon Society site" Greg-2 says, "I
don't see any webcrafters perking up about that idea, but maybe if you trap
them in the MOO, they could come up with a form." Greg-2 says, "I agree.
That section of the ADB is all set up." kokhmmm says, "I've been to busy to
give it attention since last meeting" Greg-2 says, "OK"
Greg-2 says, "One of these years we ought to put together a manual for how
to organize and run a Moon Society chapter." kokhmmm says, "The current ADB
list has links to Amazon.com - I'd need to know how those were created"
Arthur says, "Let's make it a lot smaller than the 150-page NSS one though,
ok? :-)" Greg-2 says, "Yes. I was thinking more of a booklet of ideas and
helps." kokhmmm says, "Arthur, where is the NSS list? 150 pages on all
space topics, or just the Moon?" Greg-2 says, "Not a big bureaucratic
tome." kokhmmm says, "Sorry, I see you changed the topic" Greg-2 says, "We
once had a kit for L5 Society chatpers. It has flyers and brochures and a
set of slides." kokhmmm says, "I had promised to take the NSS online
handbook and create one for us but have not followed through" Greg-2 says,
"Peter, I think we're still wafting around the general topic of chapter
activities." kokhmmm says, "Actually, a lot of what is on the Space Chapter
Hub is a de facto handbook" Greg-2 says, "Hmm... idea: Maybe Dave Dietzler
could help put one together, just a page at a time." kokhmmm says, "Greg,
not sure that's Dave's area of interest. He's pretty technical." Greg-2
says, "It was just a thought."
Greg-2 says, "If we've done what we can do for chapters tonight, the Help
with India Contest is agenda item 14." Severy-5 has arrived.
kokhmmm says, "India Contest. I thought I had sent Amrut Yalagi everything
he needed." Greg-2 says, "OK. So that one can be dropped from the agenda?"
Nancy-1 says, "Hi Randall!"
kokhmmm says, "Then he wanted me to compose a contest registration form. I
thought that should be his responsibility and I didn't put one together."
kokhmmm says, "Contest was supposed to be announced Feb 28th. But I have
heard nothing" Greg-2 says, "I agree. If he has a viable chapter, he should
be able to get someone locally to help make forms and flyers." Michael
arrives.
Michael says, "hi guys.... sorry I'm late" kokhmmm says, "Hi Randall and
Michael"
Nancy-1 says, "Hi Michael!"
Greg-2 says, "Evening, Michael. Pack your bags; we sold you to a plantation
in Columbia while you weren't looking." kokhmmm says, "Hanging out at the
"Cafe" Michael?" Greg-2 says, "Item 15 is Outreach."
Michael says, "dinner was slow at the restuarant we had dinner at.... just
got back" Severy-5 says, "Hi, everyone! Sorry I'm late, as usual. Rehearsal
ran a bit long, and since my home PC is in pieces it takes a bit longer to
get connected from this laptop" Greg-2 says, "S'okay, Randall. You'll be
Michael's gofer at the plantation. He'll need the help. They pick coffee by
hand." Greg-2 says, "Do we not have a director for Outreach?" Michael gets
the feeling that we were talked about in our absense. Severy-5 says,
"Regarding the earlier question about membership reports, a custom query
could be used directly against the database if someone wants to write one.
Otherwise, if there is a standard new query that is needed on a regular
basis I could add a new report to cover that, I just need someone to send
me the rules that would be used to generate the report" Greg-2 says,
"Peter, you asked the question. Can you send Randall a note about what
rules would be used to determine the database query?" kokhmmm says,
"Randall, it was my idea. Thought it would be useful information" kokhmmm
says, "Hmmm! ?"
Greg-2 says, "(Great minds, Episode XIV)" Scottyg-1 says, "Randall, part of
that database question was...Once a renewal has been entered, is there
still information available that the renewal was late?" Severy-5 says,
"Hmm, good question. I think the expiration date is updated to a new value,
so we don't have a record of the old expiration date" Severy-5 says, "So we
know when the renewal was processed, but we can't really tell if it was
before or after the old expiration date" Greg-2 says, "So to be able to
answer that quesiton, we'd new some new analysis tools to keep a log of
memberships that expired." Arthur says, "Sorry, back at keyboard again -
wife was talking" Scottyg-1 says, "Would the payment record permit that?"
Scottyg-1 says, "Should be able to reconstruct expiration date from payment
date." Greg-2 says, "Oh, quick go-back to agenda item 8 (Membership
Services): Missy and Nancy will handle sending paper renewal notices, but
we have to provide them with all the stuff they need to do this and a
procedure." Arthur says, "Peter: in answer to where the NSS handbook is -
the space chapters hub! :-) -
http://www.nsschapters.org/hub/chap_handbooks.htm - which links to
http://hiwaay.net/~hal5/assembly/library/handbook/ (I'm not sure it's 150
pages, but it felt like that when I printed it)" Scottyg-1 says, "We'll
reimburse them for materials they purchase. There's some text lying around
for the content of the letter that should probably be reviewed." Scottyg-1
says, "Other than that, the only thing is how to get the list of letters
needed." Greg-2 says, "OK, let's remember to do that so we can get back
into the business of littering people's post office boxes." Michael reads
the meeting agenda
kokhmmm says, "Arthur, silly me. It was I who put the handbook link on the
hub!" kokhmmm says, "Altzheimers again"
Greg-2 says, "Right. What Nancy really needs is a tool that will generate a
mail/merge list for Microsoft Word, and Word template to feed it to."
Scottyg-1 says, "No, its just a form letter. All thats needed is something
to print labels." john-r says, "nite all"
john-r has disconnected.
Severy-5 says, "I can generate a mailing list from TeamDir that is already
formatted for mailing labels, I just need the rules to determine which
addresses to include in the mailing list" Greg-2 says, "Thanks, Randall.
Right, when last we spake on this, Scotty and I were puzzling over how to
write the rules." Severy-5 says, "TeamDir generates it in the form of an
RTF file, just load it into Word and print" Greg-2 says, "That would be
perfect."
Greg-2 says, "Shall we assign an action item to Scotty & Greg & Randall to
figure out this thing and provide Nancy and Missy the tools and procedures
they need?" Severy-5 says, "Yup, I just need someone to ride herd on me to
get it done" Greg-2 says, "Heh. Nancy now has a vested interested in
assuring that it happens. :)" Severy-5 says, "FYI, I will be out of town
(out of the country, actually) all next week, so I will not be productive
during that time" kokhmmm says, "Your laptop doesn't work abroad?" kokhmmm
says, "Just kidding, have fun!" The housekeeper arrives to cart john-r off
to bed. Greg-2 says, "Right. They're getting impatient at that plantation
in Columbia. When you get there, ask for Gonzalo Montoya. He'll tell you
where to find your hoe." Severy-5 says, "I'll be online some of the time,
but not reliably" Severy-5 says, "The laptop will work fine, but my only
Internet access may be Earthlink's expensive 800 number, so I may be online
much" Severy-5 says, "hoe, hoe, hoe, Greg :-)" Greg-2 says, "One work:
Eeek!"
Severy-5 says, "Correction: so I may *not* be online much" Greg-2 says, "If
we're done on that one..." Scottyg-1 says, "I think all thats needed in
Team Director is to run the "Expiring Members" report from Today to TODAY+4
Months" Greg-2 says, "Item 16 is "Grant Opportunities with TransOrbital."
It's a Michael thing." Severy-5 says, "Hmm, what if I just add output
options for the Expiring Members report: HTML and RTF?" Severy-5 says,
"Then you could generate that mailing list for whatever date range you
want" Michael says, "as far as I can tell, that has morphed into the fund
raiser for the far side radiometer survey....." Greg-2 says, "OK, so that's
off the agenda, too." Scottyg-1 says, "Randall, yep, sounds like a plan."
Greg-2 says, "Right. They'd just need to keep track of what dates they've
already done." Greg-2 says, "We're also on the hook to provide a detailed,
step-by-step procedure." Greg-2 says, "Item 17 is "Team and Mailing List
Infrastructures"" Greg-2 says, "The agenda thinks this is a Mike thing."
Greg-2 says, "Hmm... what are we supposed to be covering on that agenda
item?" Greg-2 says, "Anybody know anything?"
Greg-2 says, "Should it stay on the agenda?" Greg-2 says, "Is Mike still
awake?"
Michael says, "maybe, it was a discussion about setting up mailing list
archives.... it was somnething Mike and I were working on." Severy-5 says,
"It involves updates to any of the teams, mailing lists, or repositories"
Severy-5 says, "And probably should involve the new bulletin board stuff
I'm working on, but I don't have anything to report in that area yet"
Greg-2 says, "That sounds like an agenda item that would come up when
necessary, and should be dropped from the standard agenda. Right?" Severy-5
says, "Well, except that I *am* now actually working it :-)" Greg-2 says,
"Oops!"
Severy-5 says, "working on it, too"
Severy-5 says, "Keeping it on the agenda may help as a reminder that there
should be new status every two weeks :-)" Severy-5 says, "At least it
helped tonight :-)" Greg-2 says, "Right!"
Greg-2 says, "I could slip your name in here! :)" Severy-5 says, "Sure, add
me to the roster" Greg-2 says, "Wilco."
Greg-2 says, "Next victim: Item 18 "State of the Society Updates". Peter."
kokhmmm says, "I can put together much of a State of the Society Report
concentrating on newsletter, chapters, position papers, liaison with other
groups, and staying clear of membership numbers and projects unless someone
wants to contribute to those and other areas. Greg can write up
improvements to membership services." kokhmmm says, "I'd put the report
online for leaders comments first" Greg-2 says, "What do we do with these
writeups once we have them, Peter?" kokhmmm says, "Once leaders have had
input and revision made, we could put it online and/or in the MSJ pages of
MMM, in serial form if necessary" Greg-2 says, "Good idea!"
Greg-2 says, "OK, I'll write a little article about membership services."
kokhmmm says, "We'd only print the positive stuff, or stuff we can give a
positive spin" kokhmmm says, "The purpose of the report is to motivate
renewals" Greg-2 says, "For sure. Let's focus on the good stuff we are
doing." Greg-2 says, "(Which, I think, is what we should always do. Focus
on the good we're doing rather than the bazillion things we can't do. We
can always come up with ideas for things that we can't do.)" Greg-2 says,
"Anybody else want to contribute to State of the Society updates?" Greg-2
says, "Maybe some notes about how great the web site is getting to be?"
Greg-2 says, ":)"
Greg-2 says, "?"
kokhmmm says, "We have to be careful not to mention things we are working
on unless we are confident they will pan out. Don't need bubbles that can
be busted. Bad for morale" Michael says, "btw, did we come to any
conclusion on the status of Peter's white paper?" kokhmmm says, "I sent an
email a bit ago to the LEADERS about the position papers and revisions. I
think they are matured." kokhmmm says, "Sent at 8 pm central today" Greg-2
says, "Michael, we'll come back to those agenda items later." Michael says,
"I saw that.....I'll read them in a bit....." Michael says, "thanks greg"
Greg-2 says, "So, if that's it for State of the Society Updates, we can
move on to item 19 "10K Ideas"" Greg-2 says, "Is that project still viable?
Do we want to keep it on the agenda?" Arthur says, "I'd like to comment on
the state of moon exploration - since I've (had been at least) keeping the
missions page up to date - if that's of interest for the "state of the
society"" kokhmmm says, "Amy is not here. Somewhere on my 'puter I have the
policy guidelines for Mars Society projects - they make sense. I'll find it
and send it." Greg-2 says, "Hmm... articles about moon missions sound like
they'd stand on their own, Arthur." Michael says, "I'd suggest we rename
the '10K ideas' to a general discussion of high ROI ways of spending that
money. Outreach is probably one. I.e. spend some of it on a Google ad"
kokhmmm says, "Yes, Arthur. That would be a contribution, thanks" kokhmmm
says, "What do google ads cost, Michael?" Michael says, "dunno.... I just
show 'em... never bought one....." Michael says, "I'll go look"
Greg-2 says, "Michael just proposed a go-back to item 15, actually,
"Outreach"." Greg-2 says, "So, how much does a Google ad cost?" Greg-2
says, "Oops. "Great Minds, Yet Again."" kokhmmm says, "Yah, we skipped 15"
Arthur says, "as much as you want - I believe they start at $5 - you pay
per click-through, and once you've used up your money, your ad disappears,
till you pay more." kokhmmm says, "Do we need Ian for that?" Michael says,
"yep.... its 'cost-per-click' model" Arthur says, "accommodates any budget"
Greg-2 says, "Yeah, I opened that topic, then we had a series of
interruptions. Sorry." dcarson says, "There is a US$5.00 activation fee for
Google AdWords. After that, you tell us how much you are willing to pay per
click and per day. You can choose a maximum cost-per-click (CPC) from
US$0.05 - US$50 and set a daily budget as low as 5 cents USD or as high as
you want. See question 4 for more information on selecting your CPC and
daily budget." kokhmmm says, "How many clicks for $5?" Michael says, "
*" Michael says, "Only a US$5 activation fee" Michael says, "*"
Michael says, "No minimum spending or time commitment" Michael says, "
*" Michael says, "Daily budget and maximum cost-per-click (CPC) that you
set (5 cents USD to US$50), so you'll never spend more than you want"
Michael says, "*"
Michael says, "Targeted advertising to reduce unwanted clicks" Michael
says, "https://adwords.google.com/select/pricing.html" Arthur says, "Oh,
right, you compete with other people for placement on a page - if you
haven't offered enough (cost per click) then you won't appear until the
other folks use up their ad budget" Arthur says, "it seems to be extremely
effective" Greg-2 says, "Apparently you use cost-per-click to buy keyword
links." Michael says, "except that its also appears on other peoples
websites via 'adsense' (see rocketforge for an example of google adsense
ads)" Greg-2 says, "Who can follow up on this? I want to propose that we
budget $200 for a trial run on Google and see what happens." Michael says,
"so far I've made $1.72"
Michael says, "$200 over what time period?" Arthur says, "Greg/Peter - a
regular lunar mission update might be a good idea for MMM. Let's see if I
can actually get one written :-)" Michael says, "one month?"
Greg-2 says, "Um... two months."
Greg-2 says, "OK, one month."
Michael says, "ok.... I'll go figure it all out and come back with some
estimates." dcarson says, "thanks"
Greg-2 says, "Great! Thanks, Michael!"
kokhmmm says, "Thanks, Arthur"
Greg-2 says, "Arthur, yeah, that would be really great! Especially since
things are getting interesting." DaveW says, "google adwords sounds good"
dcarson says, "apparently they charge less then your max if you have a high
click thru rate so that you have a motive to really target the keywords"
Greg-2 says, "Yeah, this looks very good. Hope it works." Michael says,
"while I'm researching this I might give it a try and spend $20 of my own
money to try it out. Any objections to me placing a moon society specific
ad?" Greg-2 says, "None from me."
Michael says, "is there anyway we can track referrals so we can get a feel
for which MS main page views are coming from google?" Greg-2 says,
"Although I'll move that we authorize Michael to spend up to $200 in the
next month on the Google experimetn." Greg-2 says, "(That makes it
reimbursable, if you want to be reimbursed.)" Michael says, "cool...."
Greg-2 says, "... if someone seconds the motion and it passes..." Michael
says, "yea, the silence was defeaning....." dcarson says, "second"
Michael says, "defeaning? what the hell is that?" Greg-2 says, "Thanks,
Dana!"
Greg-2 says, "I think it's like "bare with us." You don't want to know."
Michael says, "I'll be back in a couple of minutes... the dog is being
rather *insistent*" Greg-2 says, "OK, moved and seconded that we authorize
Michael Mealling to spend up to $200 on experimenting with Google ads for
the Moon Society." Greg-2 says, "Is there any discussion on the motion?"
Greg-2 says, "^^^^ Oh look! A motion! ^^^^" Severy-5 says, "None here"
Greg-2 says, "Oh good! Someone is awake! I wasn't comfortable with spending
that kind of money with no feedback." Greg-2 does 7 dumb things before
breakfast every day. Michael says, "none here either...."
Greg-2 says, "OK, so... let's proceed to a vote. All in favor of the motion
please say 'aye'?" Michael says, "aye"
Greg-2 says, "Aye"
dcarson says, "aye"
kokhmmm says, "aye"
Michael says, "bunch of bleadin pirates....." Greg-2 says, "That's 4 board
members heard from. I think that passes it, right?" Michael never can keep
track of what quorum is Greg-2 says, "We have 7 board members, so 4 of 7 is
a majority. But do we have a quorum?" Greg-2 says, "Yes. Randall and Arthur
are here. (Sort of.)" Greg-2 says, "Erm... I lost somebody."
kokhmmm says, "If we have 4 out of 7 it must be a quorum as well as a
majority, methinks" Severy-5 says, "Aye"
Michael says, "ok, randal clinches it regardless" Greg-2 says, "OK then.
Motion passes. *gavel*" Greg-2 says, "Let us know how it turns out,
Michael. This sounds like a great idea!" Michael says, "I'll try and get it
setup tomorrow evening....." Greg-2 says, "Neat!"
Greg-2 says, "If anyone is lost: We are on a go-back to item 15 "Outreach".
We have suspended discussion on item 19 "10K ideas" for this." Michael
reads the meeting agenda
Michael says, "you guys want an update on the merchandising thing?" kokhmmm
says, "I just got email from India. I guess I'll give in and send them a
registration form" Greg-2 says, "The items in
http://www.moonsociety.org/private/leaders/agenda.html has item numbers."
Greg-2 says, "You have your own fan club over there now, Peter! :)" kokhmmm
says, "Well, maybe next time they'll send me a plane ticket!" Greg-2 says,
"Wouldn't that be neat!"
Michael says, "can we go back to item #7?" Greg-2 says, "OK, so, anything
else on Outreach for tongiht?" Michael says, "nothing from me...."
Greg-2 says, "Michael, yes, we'll cycle back to the top of the agenda. We
deferred items 1 through 7 at the beginning of the meeting." Michael says,
"ahh.....now I understand....sorry" Greg-2 says, "I want to work through
the agenda so we can clean up the stuff at the end." Greg-2 says, "I think
we should move "10K Ideas" to a separate category -- a gunnysack for
reminders of things we want to do but can't do right now." kokhmmm says,
"We can skip Item 20 and 21 as John is not here" Arthur says, "awake here -
and thanks Greg for keeping things moving :-)" kokhmmm says, "Yah, Greg
weilds a mean gavel!" kokhmmm says, "wields, too"
Arthur says, "bare with him"
Greg-2 says, "I think item 20 is the same thing... an on-going project that
may generate agenda items if there is progress." Greg-2 says, "LOL"
Greg-2 says, "Yes, I'm almost through my obsession with organizing this
thing." Greg-2 says, "Item 21 is sort of the same -- it generates agenda
items as required but does not need to be a standard agenda item." Arthur
says, "I agree with Greg we should be moving things to a "to do" list -
maybe leave that as one agenda item" Michael ate some very hot Nam Sad for
dinner and stupidly stuck his finger in his eye.... Greg-2 says, "So if
there is no objection I'll split up the agenda into "Agenda" and "On-Going
Projects"" Greg-2 says, "Aaarggh! Michael! That's *gotta* hurt!" kokhmmm
says, "Good idea!"
Greg-2 says, "OK then, that's what I'll do!" Greg-2 says, "And now we're at
the end." Greg-2 says, "Maybe I should (finally) hand the gavel to Randall
so we can cycle back to items 1 through 7? :)" kokhmmm says, "A guys got to
take a break!" kokhmmm says, "guy's"
Greg-2 says, "Yeah, so do my fingers. Randall is a better typist. :)"
Arthur says, "when he's awake - Randall?" Greg-2 says, "Yeah... or not."
Greg-2 says, "Aw darn. Michael, can you take the gavel? There are mostly
your babies." Michael says, "hey guys, where is the Moon Society
'physically' located?" Michael says, "sure....."
Greg-2 says, "Officially, the Moon Society is in Plano, Texas." kokhmmm
says, "in cyberspace, Michael." Greg-2 says, "Our corporate HQ is a
palatial estate in a post office box." kokhmmm says, "We have no physical
HQ or staff" Michael says, "ok.... I'm turning Peter's white paper into a
press release...." Michael says, "a release needs a location tag at the
very beginning..... Plano works" Greg-2 says, "Good enough."
Michael says, "ok, back to item #1: Lunar radiometer fund raising project:
" kokhmmm says, "I'll have to visit Plano sometime" Greg-2 says, "If we
need something bigger than a pobox... well... the parking lot of Applied
Concepts is our most frequent meeting ground." Scottyg-1 says, "P.O. Box
940825, Plano, TX 75094-0825 is our "official" address." Greg-2 says,
"C'mon down, Peter!"
Scottyg-1 says, "And our registered agent is also in plano Texas." Michael
says, "Transorbital is currently working with the project lead to figure
out the actual logistics of who does what, when and where and how we get
involved with respect to money and 501c3 status..... when they figure it
out they will get back to us..." kokhmmm says, "Just got back from Oahu and
Maui, Greg" Greg-2 looks enviously at Peter.
Michael says, "item #2 has been handled....." Greg-2 says, "Does that mean
it can be dropped from the agenda, Michael?" Michael says, "we didn't cover
#3 yet?" Michael says, "greg, yes"
Greg-2 says, "OK."
kokhmmm says, "I only had to pay for my tours, not airfare or hotel" Greg-2
says, "Yes, we skipped 1 through 7." Michael says, "ok, item #3. IMHO
everyone should take one final look at Peter's paper over the next 24 hours
and then we should publish it." kokhmmm says, "on #3, will these papers
appear online somewhere?" Arthur says, "Peter, one spelling correction I
emailed you already" kokhmmm says, "No, Arthur, a friend who didn't want to
go alone" kokhmmm says, "Thanks, Arthur"
Michael says, "Peter, I suspect we'll end up hosting them on the main MS
web site...." Michael says, "I would like for us to submit both of these to
the President's commission as our official contribution. At the same time
we do that we issue a release telling everyone we did that.... I'll try and
have the release done in the next day." Michael says, "my *hope* is that
gets us a seat on one of the panels at an upcoming meeting...." Michael
says, "btw, I'm assuming that if we were invited to present that Ian would
do the presentation?" Michael says, "I'm slowly melting into item #4"
Arthur says, "Ian would make sense for the east coast - if it's somewhere
else they're squeezing us in, ...?" Michael says, "the next one is in
Atlanta, then San Fran, and then NYC" kokhmmm says, "Arthur and Michael. I
just made the spelling correction that Arthur asked for in Moon paper"
Michael says, "ok, I move that the version of Petere's Hubble and Return to
the Moon papers that exist 24 hours from now be simultaneously published on
the Moon Society web site and sent to the President" Michael says,
"err....Presidents' commission and a press release is sent out at that time
announcing those to events." Greg-2 says, "Second"
dcarson says, "sounds good"
Michael says, "all those in favor?"
Michael says, "aye"
dcarson says, "they're well written"
dcarson says, "aye"
Arthur says, "aye"
kokhmmm says, "aye"
Michael elbows Randall
Greg-2 says, "aye"
Michael says, "seems to carry to me....." Michael says, "anything else on
these two items?" Michael says, "btw, for those who missed the commission
meeting today, I real time blogged it here:
http://rocketforge.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/ArocketIRC" Michael says, "it
has a lot of my spin on it so be warned. ;-)" Michael says, "ok, on to item
#5"
Michael says, "RTTM...."
Michael says, "Did everyone get the sponsorship information document that
SFF gave me?" Michael says, "
http://moonsociety.org/private/leaders/SponsorshipOptionsforRTM5.doc"
Michael [to repeat:]: the deal SFF suggested was that if we can bring in a
co-sponsor at the $5000 level that they will give us co-sponsor level at no
cash cost. If we can bring in more than one $5000 co-sponsor then we can
get a full Sponsor level at no cash cost. kokhmmm says, "Manny asked me to
look into NSS cosponsorship of RTTM and I handed that to Arthur who handed
it to ..." Michael says, "so, the issue becomes: are there any companies or
other organizations that we can talk into co-sponsoring RTTM V? I'm willing
to pursue them (with some help), I just need ideas and contacts." kokhmmm
says, "Easier said than done, Michael. Does anyone want to volunteer his
business as the donor?" dcarson says, "any ideas for who to ask for sponser
money" Arthur says, "uh, nobody yet - Jim Plaxco seemed to take it up as a
chapters project" Arthur says, "(continuing Peters' thought)" Michael says,
"Peter, I'm not suggesting any of our companies. I'm thinking more along
the HP, IBM, Boeing, etc level.... I.e. people for who $5000 is a lunch
tab." kokhmmm says, "But who has access to such companies? That's my
point." Michael says, "peter, you don't have to have *access*, you just
call 'em. I'm needing suggestions for companies that might have a higher
chance of success." Scottyg-1 says, "The only company i can think of where
we 8might* have the right kind of contact is Bigelow Aerospace. Greg, do
you tink Bob might bite?" Michael says, "so far the ones on my list are HP,
RadioShack, and EA." kokhmmm says, "Comcast, Disney, Harley Davidson,
etc.," Greg-2 says, "No, I don't think Bob will be interested, unless he
has changed his past policy regarding sponsorship of conferences in general
and the RTTM conference in particular." Michael says, "Disney is a good
one...... dunno 'bout Harley....." kokhmmm says, "If Harley could engineer
a moon bike ...?" DaveW says, "Tom Hanks just announced a new moon themed
IMAX project" kokhmmm says, "Might be publicity for them" dcarson says,
"tel them we'll stick a Harly logo on Gregs ascent stage :-)" kokhmmm says,
"Good one, Dana!"
DaveW says, "Jeep"
DaveW says, "Jeep - Out of this world offroad adventure" kokhmmm says,
"Jeep = Daimler-Chrysler" Arthur says, "How about IMAX the company?"
Michael says, "can you think of any that have existing space ties? Disney
has that new space venue at Epcot so that's a direct tie in." Michael says,
"IMAX is barely profitable....." Arthur says, "recently?"
DaveW says, "Sci-Fi channel , or one of the other science/learning
channels" Michael says, "HP has its relationship with Transorbital,
RAdioShack has LunaCorp...." Michael says, "yea...SciFi! good one"
Arthur says, "And barely profitable may mean in need of more good content
:-)" Michael says, "apparently they have to much content and not enough
viewers. ;-)" Arthur says, "ah well"
kokhmmm says, "Too much lousy content, Michael, a direct inverse
relationship" Arthur says, "Just don't talk to the guys who did that Eddie
Murphy movie on the Moon..." Michael says, "ok, keep ideas like this
coming, send me email if you think of a really good one. " DaveW says, "tom
hanks - imax moon mission documentory
http://www.reuters.com/locales/newsArticle.jsp;:404672fc:75425d5a17ab29a0?type=entertainmentNews&locale=en_IN&storyID=4490816"
kokhmmm says, "I have never approached a company before. It might be risky
if you don't know what you are doing or have your ducks in order" Arthur
says, "What's the downside? They say no?" DaveW says, "the only downside is
poisoning the well for someone else" dcarson says, "Steve jackson of Steve
Jackson games is a member but they're small" Michael says, "at this point
I'm going to make a motion that we ask SFF to draw up a simple contract
making this deal clear. We will then look it over and if its kosher we'll
execute it and then start working hard at getting the co-sponsorships."
kokhmmm says, "Good idea, Michael, first things first" dcarson says,
"wonder if Florida or one of the othre space states would be a possible"
Michael says, "I just want to have that list of companies ready to 'pull
the trigger on' as soon as we get that contract ready." Michael says,
"dana, possibly not the states but definitely the space ports in them....
Oklahoma space port is already a sponsor." Scottyg-1 says, "In the email i
sent on this topic, I asked a number of questions." Michael says, "no
wait.... that's isdc...." Scottyg-1 says, "Some of them are not answered
yet." Scottyg-1 says, "For example, do we get publication rights to the
conference proceedings to our members?" Michael says, "Im digging through
that mail and trying to find those questions. do you have them handy?"
Scottyg-1 says, "Just a sec...I think I can paste them in here." Michael
says, "I don't see why not .... but I wouldn't want to send all of our
members conference proceedings. If someone wants it they need to explicitly
ask for it." Scottyg-1 says, "I was thinking of publishing in the
members-only area of the website." Michael says, "does anyone ever actually
read conference proceedings? and why would you want to print 'em
anyway....." Scottyg-1 says, "Questions: (unedited)" Scottyg-1 says, "Is it
a priority? Are we willing to put most everything else behind this in our
priority queue? I don't see this as a one-man effort on our part. Do we
have several people willing to devote time and energy? In at least some
ways, the benefits received will be related to the effort we make."
Scottyg-1 says, "How much and what kind of publicity do we get? Will the
conference be billed as "Presented by SFF and sponsored by Moon Society and
whatever other gaggle of sponsors they can get on board" or as "Presented
jointly by SFF and Moon Society?" (Makes quite a bit of difference in the
percieved level of credibility.)" Scottyg-1 says, "What are the financial
arrangements? If we allocate funds, then we certainly should share
proportionally in the revenues. (I would support putting some funding into
this if the agreement seems satisfactory.) Even if we don't allocate funds,
I think we should receive some sort of compensation for our efforts. It
doesn't have to be substantial, but nothing of value is free in this world.
If they want our support, they should be willing to give something in
return. (We might consider "free" memberships where the conference cost is
increased to allocate that portion of the revenue to us off the top.) There
are other possibilities...We give a lot of lip service to fund raising and
I think this is a good place to begin that effort. As Greg has pointed out,
this is a major fund-raising event for SFF and they should be willing to
share the revenue in return for our support." Scottyg-1 says, "Do we get
publication rights to the proceedings? We tout our member-only area as a
membership benefit, but that area is empty except for the online MMM. We
need to think in terms of value to our membership." Scottyg-1 says, "What
sort of support are we to provide in other areas - organizing, staffing,
promotion, registration and handling of money, etc?" Scottyg-1 says, "How
much control will we have over how things are done, program content, etc.?
How much control do we want to have?" Scottyg-1 says, "How do we insure
accountability? (After a year of trying to get a statement of income &
expense for the LDBC 2000 in Las Vegas from SSI, we finally gave up in
frustration. That boondoggle cost us about 100 free memberships and not a
penny of revenue.) One way to accomplish that might be to withold part of
our funding until a final statement is recieved. (Michael, I'm willing to
help in this area.)" Michael says, "oh goodness....."
Scottyg-1 says, "I think your letter answers some of these, but not all."
Michael says, "tell you what, instead of responding to all of this here,
why don't I do it to hte leaders list....." Scottyg-1 says, "That would be
good."
Michael says, "IMHO, if we are able to bring in another co-sponsor, that
means we don't end up spending money. In that case, IMHO, most of those
questions become meaningless...." Scottyg-1 says, "Not necessarily."
Nancy-1 says, "Pixar is another company to consider...Tom Hanks was the
voice of Cowboy-toy Woody, and Tim Allen was the voice of Buss Lightyear. I
think people often think of Disney and forget Pixar." Scottyg-1 says, "I
think something to think about is....If we provide our support, what's in
it for us?" Scottyg-1 says, "Obviously, we get some publicity." Scottyg-1
says, "What else?"
Michael says, "Scotty, free publicity that we can't generate on our own.
and those we can turn into memberships....." kokhmmm says, "The most
important publicity is with our own members who we want to renew because
they see us doing something!" Michael says, "yep"
kokhmmm says, "Plus new members"
kokhmmm says, "Remember, we sponsored the one in 2000 and got zero new
members" Scottyg-1 says, "I didn't say the publicity wasn't valuable. I'm
just making the point....don't leave anything lying on the table." Michael
says, "ok, I'll re-respond to Greg's questions seperately. I suggest we
move on....." Michael says, "the next item is RAndalls..... I need to go
give the cat her injections so I'll be right back." Greg-2 says, "Greg's
questions? *blink*" Scottyg-1 says, "You don't know what else you can get
if you don't ask." Greg-2 says, "Oops... that assumes that Randall is here
in mindshare as well as his electronic presence. He's seriously swamped
tonight and has to get up at 5:00 AM." Scottyg-1 says, "And what else we
can get could make a substantial difference in the amount of effort we are
willing to put into it." Scottyg-1 says, "For starters, some kind of
finder's fee would be appropriate for bringing in cash." kokhmmm says, "I
do have one input on the point system. Points should be issued for action
items actually taken care of" Michael says, "Scotty, the finders fee is
spent on paying our co-sponsorship bill..." Michael says, "oh wait, you're
talking about Randalls' point system." Michael says, "which, apparently,
he's not awake to talk about. ;-)" Michael says, "so I'll move on to item
#7." Michael says, "so has anyone actually played with the cafepress site
info I sent around?" Greg-2 says, "Yeah, I moved the Point System to
"On-Going Projects". Let's see if it generates any specific agenda items."
Greg-2 says, "What's the URL, Michael? I haven't seen it?" Michael says, "
http://cafepress.com/"
dcarson has disconnected.
Michael says, "and enter this username: michael@exoaerospace.com" Michael
says, "and this password: foobar" Michael says, "but you really don't need
to since what I'm going to do is just run it for the Society and have it
cut a check directly to the society on a quarterly basis....." dcarson has
connected.
Michael says, "and I'm just going to suggest a $1 markup per item across
the board." dcarson leaves.
dcarson arrives.
dcarson says, "stupid machines"
Michael says, "and leave it at that until someone suggests otherwise...."
Greg-2 says, "The shop is here: http://www.cafeshops.com/moonsociety"
Michael says, "yep.... sorry... missed that bit" Michael says, "anyone have
any objections to that scheme?" kokhmmm says, "Nope"
DaveW says, "not i"
Greg-2 says, "Beautiful, Michael."
Greg-2 says, "I like the journal. :)("
Michael says, "ok, make that a motion then....." Greg-2 says, ":), too!"
dcarson says, "go for it"
Scottyg-1 says, "Sounds ok to me."
Nancy-1 says, "I like the journal too. Very nice, Michael." Greg-2 says,
"Nit: Can the hat thing be changed to say "Advancing" instead of
"Furthering"?" Michael says, "I move that I just keep doing what I'm doing
with the moon society cafepress shop. Each item will have a $1 markup. When
the money has accumulated above the cafepress threshold a check will be
sent once per quarter directly to the Moon Society. I just need address
information for where to send the check to." Michael says, "sure"
Michael says, "oh hey! someone has been playing with it.... looks like Mike
added some stuff" Michael says, "speaking of that hat, have you guys seen
all of the banner ads that Mike and I were playing with?" kokhmmm says,
"No, haven'tseen them"
Michael says, "http://rocketforge.org/ms-banners/" Greg-2 says, "Michael,
do we need to provide a dozen images for the calendar?" Michael says,
"greg, nope.... its just a single sheet...." Greg-2 says, "It says "Click
on individual images to see them up close" and shows an array of identical
images." Arthur says, "If H and I don't wake up Randall, I'm sure nothing
can :-)" Arthur says, "Hey, I've got to get to bed here - sick folk in the
house, and I'm recovering myself... " Michael says, "ahh... yes. that
calendar can have multiple images.... they had an older calendar that was
just one page, 'poster' style." Arthur says, "goodnight all"
Greg-2 says, "G'night, Arthur!"
Arthur leaves.
Michael says, "I'll work on getting some of the ADB images into that
calendar" Michael says, "ok, I made a motion earlier.... anyone going to
second it?" kokhmmm says, "second"
Greg-2 says, "Erm... Michael, I have an idea. Send me the specs for the
calendar images at grb@asi.org and I'll provide some images." Michael says,
"all those in favor?"
kokhmmm says, "aye"
Michael says, "greg, will do....."
Greg-2 says, "What was the motion?"
Michael says, "ok, I made a motion earlier.... anyone going to second it?"
Greg-2 says, "Can you restate the motion, please. :)" Michael says, "I move
that I just keep doing what I'm doing with the moon society cafepress shop.
Each item will have a $1 markup. When the money has accumulated above the
cafepress threshold a check will be sent once per quarter directly to the
Moon Society. I just need address information for where to send the check
to." Michael says, "sorry... .hit enter to early" kokhmmm says, "I second
it"
Greg-2 says, "Ah! Good idea."
Greg-2 goes South.
Greg-2 arrives amidst thundering applause. Greg-2 says, "Oops."
Michael says, "all those in favor?"
Greg-2 says, "The address: POBOX 940825, Plano, TX 75094" Greg-2 says, "Aye"
kokhmmm says, "aye"
dcarson says, "aye"
Michael says, "aye"
Scottyg-1 says, "aye"
Michael says, "ok.... carries......done with that item...." kokhmmm says,
"you get to vote, Michael" Greg-2 says, "That's 5 of 7 board members"
dcarson says, "make up a button to put on the home page and for others to
put on their pages" Michael says, "dana, is that in regards to the
cafepress shop or to the banner ads?" kokhmmm says, "Button is a good idea!"
dcarson says, "cafepress"
Scottyg-1 says, "Michael, I was talking about the RTTM when I mentioned a
finder's fee. Let me put it another way....." Scottyg-1 says, "$5,000 is
the minimum cost of entry. But suppose we could find a sponsor willing to
put up $10,000." Greg-2 says, "I'll make a button. Who is the Official
Maintainer of the Home Page?" Scottyg-1 says, "Shouldn't we get a cut?"
Greg-2 says, "That's how it usually works, Scotty. Most begging
organizations are based on a 50% finder's fee for donations." Michael says,
"Scotty, we do. Half of that $10,000 goes toward paying our fee as a
co-sponsor. So if we brought in a $10,000 sponsor we would get $5000
credited toward our fee to be a sponsor. SFF is crediting us with half of a
co-sponsor slot for the value attached to us marketing their banner ad and
marketing the conference to our members." dcarson says, "I'll add it Greg
so email the url to me" Scottyg-1 says, "In fact, I think a fair
arrangement would be that if they get the first 5K, then we get the next 5K
and a 50/50 split above that point." Greg-2 says, "Dana, will do."

Michael says, "scotty, I didn't follow that......"
Michael says, "the goal isn't to make money out of this, its to find
*members*....."

Scottyg-1 says, "Bringing more money into the conference won't help us get
more members, once we become a cosponsor." Michael says, "right...."
Scottyg-1 says, "We should get a portion of anything we bring in above the
$5000 level."

Michael says, "although if we get two we get a Full Sponsorship
instead of just a co-sponsor. But more than that is just gravy......"
Michael says, "I'd much rather that money go to reducing the cost of
the conference fee to all attendees....."

Scottyg-1 says, "One point in this is that fund raising is in fact one of
our priorities. We need to be paying attention to that." Michael says,
"money we have..... its members we don't have...." kokhmmm says, "Question.
If we approach a potential sponsor, we'd want to say that we are a
co-sponsor, but we won't be until we pull in the fish." Scottyg-1 says, "I
*wont* reduce the cost. It will go toward enriching SFF." Michael says,
"so?"
Scottyg-1 says, "Not that thats a bad thing, since they hand out money to
support various things, but we have our own priorities." Michael says,
"whether or not SFF makes money is 100000% irrelevant to whether or not *we*
see a meaningful ROI for our effort." Scottyg-1 says, "You aren't thinking
like a businessman." Michael says, "I'm not?"
Scottyg-1 says, "And running Moon Society is a business, even if it is
non-profit." Scottyg-1 says, "A business always goes for maximizing profit.
Don't leave anything lying on the table." Michael says, "a business also
sticks to its core competency. We're not on the business of being
conference bookign agents." Michael says, "if we find two sponsors then we
stop looking. we have other things to spend our efforts on." Scottyg-1
says, "I'm not talking about being a booking agent, I'm talking about
bringing in sponsors." Michael says, "ok, ok...... I don't really care at
this point because getting one is going to be damn hard. I'll ask the SFF
that in the case where we get more than two co-sponsors or one main sponsor
that anything above that we get a 50% finders fee." Scottyg-1 says, "If we
get nothing for bringing in additional sponsors, I would agree. But if we
get 50% of the proceeds, we have a lot of worthwhile things we don't do
because we don't have enough money." kokhmmm says, "If we look for sponsors
who conceivably could be lunar outpost subcontractors, even if they never
thought about that, that might be a hook" Michael says, "How 'bout this:
since I'm going to be the one contacting these companies and doing all of
the work at the RTTM: if we find more than two sponsors then the Society
gives me a 80% finders fee." Michael says, "sorry..... retract that....that
was silly." kokhmmm says, "It's geting late. We've had a very productive
meeting. Kudos to all and goodnight" Michael says, "thanks peter!"
kokhmmm has disconnected.
Scottyg-1 says, "As you pointed out, this discussion is probably
moot...finding one sponsor at the $5k level will be hard enough." Michael
says, "I'll take that back to Manny and get him to write us up a contract.
I'll have it back to you guys in a week or two? (maybe?)" Scottyg-1 says,
"But I've seen a lot of disasters happen from not thinking in a large
enough scope when making agreements." Michael says, "yea, but I've also
seen contract negotiations take months dealing with things that will never
happen, to the point that the value of the thing being agreed to is now
worth less than the time spent on the contract." Scottyg-1 says, "LOL,
yeah, I've seen that too." Michael says, "I'd rather make a mistake doing
something and fix it latter...." Michael says, "anyway, its late..... I'm
done with these items.... I think that's the entire agenda....." Scottyg-1
says, "Ummm, well, I'd tell you a story if we had more time...." Michael
says, "I've seen some doozies too......" Michael says, "$25 million down
the hole because no one thought to put a partial delivery clause in a
contract." Michael says, "btw, I really would love comments on the
banners.... so far people really like 7 and 9.... but everyones' favorite
is 'I' (hte last one)" The housekeeper arrives to cart kokhmmm off to bed.
dcarson says, "url again?"
Michael says, "C through G are me just screwing around" Scottyg-1 says, "In
my case, a flat 15% commission to sales reps that was entirely appropriate
at the time but entirely inappropriate when the company grew by 10x."
Greg-2 says, "Dana... how about this?
http://www.moonsociety.org/images/moonsocietystore.jpg" dcarson says,
"looks good"
Greg-2 says, "I made it 150x150 to line up with the left-hand column"
Michael says, "if you want I'll do one in the style I did those banner
ads." Greg-2 says, "Your call, Michael."
Greg-2 says, "I was thinking of a button in the margin that balanced with
the design of the web page and reflects what you'll find at the store."
Michael says, "since randall is probably asleep, I move we adjourne."
dcarson says, "second"
Greg-2 says, "No object."
Greg-2 says, "objection, either."
Michael says, "I was hoping we could work on updating the image I'm using
in the store.... kidn of boring...." dcarson says, "having both for people
to use is good" Michael says, "ok, we're adjourned......" DaveW notes that
Aleta jackson of Xcor introduced herself on the space business community on
Orkut Michael says, "cool!"
DaveW says, "actually she send a message to all of the members of that
community...I just replyed and added her to my friend list" Michael says,
"she's also on linkedin.... I should introduce myself and add her.
Especially since I know one of their angels....." DaveW says, "she has a
couple of cool pics on her profile as welll" Michael says, "she reminds me
so much of the woman pilot in Kings" Michael heads home
Michael goes home.
dcarson goes home.
DaveW leaves.
Nancy-1 says, "I'm sleepy! Good night!" Greg-2 says, "G'night!"
Nancy-1 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Nancy-1. Greg-2 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Greg-2. Severy-5 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Severy-5. Scottyg-1 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Scottyg-1. MikeD-1 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove MikeD-1. Greg-1 arrives amidst thundering
applause. MikeD-1 arrives.
MikeD-1 says, "Hello"
Nancy-1 says, "Hi Mike."
MikeD-1 says, "I probably can't stay at the keyboard as i have to be in
court in just over 8 hours" MikeD-1 says, "And no, I'm not in trouble"
MikeD-1 says, "My ex is"
Nancy-1 says, "Oh?"
Nancy-1 says, "As long as you aren't in trouble. " MikeD-1 says, "If I was
in trouble I would have been getting parole right about now after 8 years"
MikeD-1 says, "But I'm not and i wasn't and I didn't" MikeD-1 says, "But I
did think about it" Greg-1 says, "As it says in the song, "You can't go to
jail for what you're thinkin'!" :)" Nancy-1 says, "That's a good thing! :)"
MikeD-1 says, "um, I believe they've changed that now, they can send you to
jail for life without trial for what they think you might be thinking"
Greg-1 says, "Oh, that's one of those things that I think I won't think
about," MikeD-1 says, "They call it the 'Suppression of Independent Thought
Act, 2004'" john-r arrives.
john-r says, "evening"
Nancy-1 says, "Hi John!"
MikeD-1 says, "Hi John"
john-r says, "Hi Mike and Nancy"
MikeD-1 says, "John, any chance you could look at that news file again and
try to fix my blunders?" john-r says, "ok"
john-r says, "did you make some changes?" MikeD-1 says, "not since the
other night" MikeD-1 says, "do I have the file locked?" john-r says, "so
its just the mouse over,?" john-r says, "noting is pending in wsd that i
see" MikeD-1 says, "yeah, it's just the mouseover" john-r says, "the mouse
over does not work on any of them, it may be that they are already visted,
and the colors are so close" john-r says, ".menu { font-family: Verdana,
Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold; text-decoration:
none; color: #00FFFF; }" john-r says, ".menu:hover { color: #FFFFFF; }"
john-r says, ".menu:visited { color: #99FFFF; }" john-r says, ".menusm {
font-family: Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt; font-weight:
normal; text-decoration: none; color: #00FFFF; }" john-r says,
".menusm:hover { color: #FFFFFF; }" john-r says, ".menusm:visited { color:
#99FFFF; }" MikeD-1 says, "yes, it looks like that might be the case
alright" john-r says, "hover is white"
john-r says, "visited is 99ffff not much difference" MikeD-1 says, "Oh, I
sent a file to Dana the other night, and he uploaded it to Leaders I think"
MikeD-1 says, "let me check if that's where he put it" john-r says, "anyone
know a randy owen?" Severy-5 has arrived.
Severy-5 says, "Good evening, folks!"
MikeD-1 says, "Sorry john, he put them in Web Team" Severy-5 says, "I'm
afraid that I'm going to be a bit distracted this evening, I'm still
struggling with a Solaris server upgrade here in the office" MikeD-1 says, "
http://www.moonsociety.org/private/web-team/axandra_notes.html and
http://www.moonsociety.org/private/web-team/Axandra.html" Scottyg-1 has
arrived.
dcarson arrives.
john-r says, "hi Scotty and Dana"
dcarson says, "helo"
john-r reads the meeting agenda
dcarson reads the meeting agenda
MikeD-1 reads the meeting agenda
Scottyg-1 says, "Hi everyone!"
Nancy-1 says, "Hi Randall, Scotty and Dana!" MikeD-1 says, "On the subject
of - Team and Mailing List Infrastructure, I have nothing new to report. I
wish I did." Greg-1 reads the meeting agenda
Greg-1 says, "Aha! It matches
http://www.moonsociety.org/private/leaders/agenda.html" Greg-1 says, "This
is a good thing."
dcarson says, "it has to match, its generated from it" Greg-1 says, "Even
better! That restores my faith in electronics! :)" Greg-1 looks around for
someone to hand the gavel to. Severy-5 would prefer if Greg kept it for
tonight :-( MikeD-1 skillfully avoids receiving the gavel Greg-1 says,
"Oh... Ohhhhh... kayyyyyy"
------------------------------
| | john-r holds up a BIG sign: | BAM BAM |

|_________| john-r says, "i can make the sounds :)" Greg-1 says, "So, let's
see if we can get the agenda done before anybody else gets here! :)"
Severy-5 says, "If I don't get this server up and running tonight, the Navy
is going to be very pissed off at me, and I don't particularly want that to
happen :-(" Greg-1 says, "Nancy, what's up in the membership processing
area?" MikeD-1 wonders when Pebbles will get here to keep BamBam under
contro; john-r says, "that would not be a good thing randall" Greg-1 says,
"I agree 100% Randall! Paying customers come first! Especially painfully
acquired paying customers!" Nancy-1 says, "Moving the last two weeks has
made it difficult for Missy to make any progress. There are about 6
memberships there to complete." Nancy-1 says, "Missy is also in the process
of having her high speed internet service hooked up. " Nancy-1 says, "She
should be online sometime next week. :)" Greg-1 says, "Thanks, Nancy!"
Greg-1 says, "Anybody got anything else on membership services?" john-r
says, "none for me"
Greg-1 says, "Chuch services? Wedding services? Funeral services?" john-r
says, "LOL"
Greg-1 says, "Next is the brochure. I'm embarrassed to confess that I got
distracted and haven't finished it yet." Greg-1 says, "Oh, speaking of
wedding services, Scotty's daughter is getting hitched this coming
weekend." dcarson says, "congrats"
MikeD-1 says, "I wont be able to stay online much longer tonight" MikeD-1
wants to remind Dana that we hoped to get some people to look at
http://www.moonsociety.org/private/web-team/axandra_notes.html and
http://www.moonsociety.org/private/web-team/Axandra.html john-r says,
"congrats also"
john-r says, "Mike those should be for the web team item" MikeD-1 wonders
why people still actually get married dcarson says, "right, report and
notes form a thing that compares you with high ranking results in google"
MikeD-1 says, "Yes they should John, but I wont be here" john-r says,
"because some of us fall in love a second time :)" john-r says, "ahhh"
john-r says, "on not here"
MikeD-1 says, "Dana, it can compare in any search engine" john-r says,
"Mike how long are you here?" MikeD-1 says, "well almost any, I just chose
google for the example" MikeD-1 says, "I have to be somewhere in a bit less
than 8 hours" MikeD-1 says, "and I have to sleep before that" john-r says,
"so what are you saying , ou need some sleep :)" Greg-1 says, "Understand,
Mike. Got anything else we need to know before we tie your bedcovers over
you and make you rest?" john-r says, "Dana and i will go over, if ok with
dana, after the reg meeting - ok?" MikeD-1 says, "I *need* some sleep, but
I don't feel in the least bit sleepy as I only woke up a bit over 12 houts
ago" dcarson says, "sure John"
Scottyg-1 says, "Thanks guys!"
MikeD-1 says, "if you tie my bedcovers Greg, you will be horribly sorry for
a very long time" Greg-1 says, "Mike, try reading a good novel that will
distract your mind from the real world. It's almost as effective as
dreaming." MikeD-1 says, "That might involve finding a book" Nancy-1 says,
"LOL"
MikeD-1 says, "Or sitting at the computer" MikeD-1 says, "I'll be here for
a little while yet" Greg-1 says, "OK"
MikeD-1 wonders if the meeting has started and whether the recorder has
been activated Greg-1 says, "Any news on the Lunar Directory?" Greg-1 says,
"Randall wanted that on the agenda as an item to remind him, but tonight is
not the night for reminding Randall." john-r says, "not from me on lun dir,
snd so far as i know, the invite letter has not been done" Greg-1 says,
"Thanks, John."
Severy-5 says, "Nothing from me either on that, but I still hope to get to
it soon" Severy-5 says, "Famous last words, I know :-(" Greg-1 says,
"Randall, right. Work on that right after the TLRC WSD. :D" john-r says,
"and after the navy thing" Severy-5 says, "TLRC WSD has already been done,
check your other MOO windows :-)" Greg-1 says, "It's a race... will we have
the Lunar Directory invite letter done first, or the new flyer?" Greg-1
says, "Yay!"
Severy-5 says, "So now you don't have an excuse on the flyer :-)" Greg-1
says, "Rats!"
Greg-1 says, "Randall, get back to work! :) :) :)" Greg-1 says, "Hmm... is
Peter here?"
Greg-1 says, "Anybody got anything on Chapters Update before it zings
past?" Greg-1 says, "Or Outreach?"
john-r says, "on chapters---"
john-r says, "i need to talk to peter to update me from contact to outpost"
john-r says, "but.."
john-r says, "before i do, when my line comes up tonight, it deals with
several items - done for the moment" john-r says, "and the last outreach
team e-mail was 2-22" Greg-1 says, "John, which line are you waiting for to
come up?" john-r says, "my mini leto thing"
john-r says, "under the new area of projects" Greg-1 says, "Oh! Down there
in section 2." john-r says, "yup"
Greg-1 says, "Since we've done as much of the formal agenda as we can,
let's go there now." john-r says, "seems that way, arthur and peter michael
and amy are all not here" john-r says, "jyst a sec, it snuk up on me :)"
john-r says, "ok, how many CAN NOT see
http://www.asi.org/private/leto/otr01/" Arthur arrives.
Arthur says, "Hi all!"
john-r says, "Hi Arthur"
dcarson says, "helo"
Arthur says, "kids basketball playoffs tonight :-)" Arthur reads the
meeting agenda
john-r says, "who won?"
Greg-1 says, "In in the Leto private directory OK." john-r says, "in the
otr area"
Arthur says, "my son's team - they've been getting better all season"
john-r says, "Arthur we are done with main aganda" Arthur says, "he'd never
played before!" Greg-1 says, "Yup, I'm in the OTR area." john-r says,
"Chhers to your sons team :)" Arthur says, "done with main agenda?"
john-r says, "cheers"
john-r says, "see the new agaenda format" john-r says, "1 is agenda 1 is
projects" john-r says, "Arthur - do you have any news for the section 1,
items?" MikeD-1 says, "Hey John, how come access to that page is controlled
by WSD Lite?" MikeD-1 says, "Shouldn't that be Team WSD Express?" john-r
says, "I am not in control of that area Mike- Greg is the team leader"
Severy-5 says, "WSD Lite is a part of TeamWSD Express" MikeD-1 says, "But I
didn't think it announced itself anymore Randall" Severy-5 says, "Each
repository is a separate installation of either WSD Lite or WSD Express"
Severy-5 says, "TeamWSD Express just manages those installations" MikeD-1
says, "ah"
With a sparkle of transporter light, saavik appears john-r will be right
back.
saavik says, "sorry I'm late "
dcarson says, "helo"
Arthur says, "I have no news - but I wanted to say good job getting our
recent news items up on our web site - should we take the 2003 items off to
an "old news" page?" Greg-1 says, "Randall, say something so that Nancy can
test her MUSHClient trigger. :)" MikeD-1 says, "I would love to do that
Arthur, but I await further instructions on that matter" Severy-5 says,
"Something"
Nancy-1 says, "LOL It works!! Thanks, Randall." dcarson says, "I'd say keep
the last 6 months on the front and archive the rest" Arthur says, "Dana -
sounds good to me - or keep last page-full of items, or something..."
john-r says, "back"
saavik reads the meeting agenda
Greg-1 says, "I can't think of a compelling reason not to move the old news
to an old news page, and obvious reasons why we should." john-r says, "Amy
are you aware of the new agenda format??" Michael-1 arrives.
Michael-1 says, "hi guys.... am I to late?" john-r says, "nope"
MikeD-1 says, "yeah, we cancelled all your programs" john-r says, "but you
have to buy dinner :)" Greg-1 says, "Micahel, you're 15 minutes early to be
an hour late. :)" MikeD-1 says, "Micahel?"
MikeD-1 says, "gee"
Michael-1 says, "heh.... sorry, I'm at a business meeting in Orlando that
just finished up" saavik says, "no...?"
Michael-1 says, "and i've been awake since 3:00 this morning" Michael-1
reads the meeting agenda
Greg-1 hands the gavel to Amy. :)
Michael-1 says, "so where are we at on the agenda?" john-r says, "Amy was
the no?? on the agenda format?" Greg-1 says, "We're down in the
pick-and-choose stuff from the bottom of the list to keep us entertained
part." Michael-1 says, "ok, did someone update everyone on the radiometer
update that Charles sent earlier today?" john-r says, "no"
Michael-1 says, "anyone have any objection to me doing that really quick?"
john-r says, "goo"
john-r says, "or you are good to go :)" Michael-1 says, "ok, charles'
update is that TO and the Italian guy doing the radiometer test have worked
out most of their issues, the remaining ones aren't show stoppers so Dennis
is putting together a proposal on what we would do, how money would flow,
etc. its a starting point, not a final proposal. We should expect to see
that by sometime mid next week." MikeD-1 says, "Any idea what the extent of
our involvement might be?" Michael-1 says, "MikeD, mostly providing the
non-profit infrastructure for collecting donations.... who we distribute
the money to and how is the real sticking issue...." saavik says, "yes the
no was on the agenda format" john-r says, "Amy the Agenda has 2 areas, the
main agenda, and the projects area, the projects come up only when some one
has a need to give an update" MikeD-1 says, "The radiometer interests me
greatly" saavik says, "ok, thx"
saavik reads the meeting agenda
kokhmmm has arrived.
saavik says, "so where are we on it?"
Michael-1 says, "Mike, me too... I would like to be able to announce it or
at last hype it at the RTTM." MikeD-1 says, "It something I can sink my
teeth into since I actually studied electronics and radio and line
transmission in college" kokhmmm reads the meeting agenda
MikeD-1 says, "I actually have formal qualifications in that area" john-r
says, "Hi Peter"
Greg-1 says, "Hi Peter! We can go back to any of your agenda items that you
would like to." kokhmmm says, "Sorry I'm late"
kokhmmm says, "Had a compute glitch at supper time and one of the weird
things that happened is my clock got set on mountain time and I just now
realized that I am late" Scottyg-1 says, "Michael, when we have some
visibility about the who and how of distributing money, we should probably
send that to the IRS for an opinion." Michael-1 says, "slight update: I'm
talking to Paul Spudis and he's told me to get in touch with the
coordinator for the Aldridge Commission to get a speaking slot." Michael-1
says, "Scotty, sure......"
kokhmmm says, "We can go back to any items that need my attention" john-r
says, "Michael, yes, who is the coord??" Michael-1 says, "a guy named Steve
Schmidt" john-r says, "Does Paul have tele or e-mail for him??" john-r
says, "And Mention to him, i met Paul at the Dayton Meet, please" john-r
says, "or Mention to Paul , that i met him" Michael-1 says, "john, I did
and he remembered you....." john-r says, "I e-mailed a week ago, and so far
no answer, but i know he is a busy man" john-r says, "Ahh, whew- TY"
Michael-1 says, "john, yes, I have Steve's email and I've sent him some
email asking if we can testify and explicitly included Peter's white
papers." john-r says, "gee, its been a bummp nite so far - 2 items in
tandem " Michael-1 says, "I'm hoping to hear something back soon. I *think*
the fact that I'm local and that I'll be at the meeting next week anyway
might help." Michael-1 says, "but if Atlanta is a wash, we still have San
Fran and NYC. My question: if we get a slot at either of those, would it
make sense to buy Ian a plane ticket to either one to do the presentation?"
john-r says, "If he has the time from work, i would vote for it" john-r
says, "and if not who has the 2nd chair, Peteer , for writing the papers??"
MikeD-1 says, "Ian shouldn't need a plane ticket for NYC" MikeD-1 says, "A
subway token maybe"
john-r says, "true, it all depends which slot we get" MikeD-1 says, "What
day is the SFO meeting Michael?" Michael-1 says, "ummm...let me look"
MikeD-1 says, "And what location in SF?" Michael-1 says, "April 15-16 for
San Fran. No location set yet." Michael-1 says, "NYC is May 3 and 4..... no
location there either" Michael-1 says, "anyway, I'll keep you guys informed
on what I get back." MikeD-1 says, "No location in SF is a problem, it
could be in the local airforce base which is not that close to SF" john-r
says, "Also, note, I sent Ian a note, that as far as Artemis MAg goes, he
may be able to call in a question" Michael-1 says, "no update on teh google
ad stuff, I haven't had the time to work up any more ad copy." john-r says,
"for the mmo mars commission" john-r says, "So Michael, any thing else on
your 2 items - TO/Italy ??" Michael-1 says, "just the update I gave a
minute ago....." irs arrives.
Michael-1 says, "nothing else"
Michael-1 speaks up, "'o the devil"
john-r says, "the man of the hour has just arrived " john-r will be right
back.
irs reads the meeting agenda
MikeD-1 says, "the SFO dates are a Thursday and Friday" Michael-1 says,
"ian, we were just discussing if you'd be able to speak at either the San
Fran or NYC aldridge commission meetings if we get a slot. If we're lucky
and I can talk them into the Atlanta meeting this coming Wednesday then I
think I cna handle it.But if we miss Atlanta I was suggesting that we fly
you to whichever meeting we get picked for." irs says, "Yes, I can speak in
New York. San Francisco is a bit distant. Let me know when and where (and a
little warning so I can take the day from work would be good)." Michael-1
says, "as soon as I know something I'll let you know." irs says, "Sorry, by
the way, for being late. We're leaving early tomorrow for the weekend -- my
sister is getting married Saturday (which is why I'm missing Lunacon)."
MikeD-1 says, "seems to be a lot of weddings all of a sudden" Michael-1
says, "its spring!"
kokhmmm says, "Yup, I'm going to be my brothe's best man on 4/16" john-r
says, "Ian, have you had time to ck on the press conf tele call for the
comm meetings??" john-r says, "thats 3 weddings, so far" john-r says, "or 4"
john-r says, "i forget"
MikeD-1 says, "3"
john-r says, "ok"
MikeD-1 hmms.
Greg-1 says, "(Nancy's daughter is getting married in June.)" MikeD-1 says,
"army just flew over, must be a problem at sea" saavik says, "sorry - was
gone on phone ut back" Greg-1 says, "Talking to Paul Hogan, Amy?" MikeD-1
groans.
saavik says, "no, parents"
MikeD-1 says, "hmm, another chopper"
irs says, "Sorry; dealing with Kit things." irs says, "What was that
question, John? You mean the thing I forwarded to you? I listened to a few
minutes of it that day, but didn't get a lot from it because I was at work
and whoever was talking was talking about his slides." john-r says, "No
Ian, my e-mail 2 weeks ago, after the dayton meeting, while your tele was
down?" john-r says, "do i need to resend?"
irs says, "Doesn't sound familiar. But if you resend (unless you can do it
in the next 15 minutes) I won't see it before Monday." john-r will be right
back.
Michael-1 says, "ok guys, I have to go find my hotel before they give up my
room...." Michael-1 says, "g'nite!"
saavik reads the meeting agenda
john-r says, "Ian, i just did a forward" irs says, "OK, I'll read it when I
download my e-mail." MikeD-1 says, "there was nothing about hotel rooms in
the agenda ......?" john-r says, "Nite Michael"
john-r says, "So on agenda, Does Peter have any comments, before we get
back to my project?" kokhmmm says, "Comments on agenda? Not really. You got
my email that Bangladesh is in on the India contest" john-r says, "I saw
that"
MikeD-1 says, "is that a minor news item?" kokhmmm says, "Did anyone have
anything to say on my suggestion that we run the same contest in North
America, with additional for-profit mission category?" john-r says, "for
the front page Mike?" john-r says, "Whats the timeing Peter, i forget for a
min" MikeD-1 says, "yeah, but more as a sub heading to the other India one"
john-r says, "ok, thinking on sub heading" kokhmmm says, "I'm not sure the
timing is set. I'll have to check. The announcement was set for India
Science Day, but that event was cancelled when their space center had an
explosion early that day." kokhmmm says, "Timing may be mentioned on the
website we are already linking to." john-r says, "going to that site"
Michael-1 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Michael-1. john-r says, "
http://www.geocities.com/amplanetary/moon_mission_contest.html does not
mention any dates" kokhmmm says, "Contest application must be filed "no
later than July 15th"" john-r says, "and the juding to be complet by ??"
kokhmmm says, "Nothing on the date for judging, I'll have to get that by
email" john-r says, "ok, i am down loading the application" john-r says,
"so anything else Peter?"
john-r says, "one more quick brb"
saavik says, "so are we still meeting?" kokhmmm says, "That's it except we
have a new MMM cost crisis. Printer is making major increase in costs. For
now, until we can study our options, we will be downsizing MMM in #of
pages" Nancy-1 says, "Good night!"
kokhmmm says, "Good night, nancy"
Nancy-1 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Nancy-1. john-r says, "back"
john-r says, "Amy, as far as i know we are still meeting" Scottyg-1 says,
"John, go ahead with your discussion." john-r says, "ok"
dcarson says, "Peter Lunar Reclamation domain is up for renewal, I'll pay
it and you send me a donation recepit" john-r says, "in general, i would
like to take the OTR sub project of Leto to an outpost chapter site for
Indian see.." john-r says, "http://www.asi.org/private/leto/otr01/" john-r
says, "it dawned on me while i was waiting for the discussion to come up
these last 3 months" kokhmmm says, "Dana, let me know how much the bill
is." john-r says, "so it was good that it came up this late in the meeting
, such that Peter was here to comment" john-r says, "Amy may be the only
one not in the ASI Project Leto Team" saavik says, "oh?"
john-r says, "Amy i do not see you in team dir, in the leto team" Scottyg-1
says, "John can you summarize the specific goals of the project?" john-r
says, "The other part of the discussion deals with challanges vs
projects.." john-r says, "a project is a set item with associated time and
costs , in order to keep moving, a challange is something that is just that
a challange to try to get some activity" john-r says, "Scotty, The main
specific gola is to get a full size habitat.. the fist sub goal is to get
one 9' modual for a demo/trail/ ect" Scottyg-1 says, "module = SpaceHab
module?" kokhmmm says, "John, I'm on your page, but I'll have to study it
and comment later (tomorrow)" john-r says, "the reasoning deal with ,
trying to spur the multi million full leto, with a project that is avail to
a wider geographic area as opposed to one grand location" MikeD-1 says,
"Peter, what in particular is the excuse given by the printer?" john-r
says, "the rest of the goals are to at some point --- in time have the full
moon base, but thats a bit in the future" kokhmmm says, "Hisd asccountant
told him he was losing money on us. He was not calculating in his major
service costs for his equipment." john-r says, "Scotty , did i answer your
question? at least for now?" Scottyg-1 says, "John, I agree that *something*
is more likely to get done if the project is broken down into smaller
sub-projects." john-r says, "Scotty - Yes to >>module = SpaceHab module"
kokhmmm says, "Yes, one phase at a time, but designed to prepare for next
phase" MikeD-1 says, "Yeah Peter, that sounds like an fairly valid excuse
considering the small runs" Scottyg-1 says, "But I'm still a little fuzzy
on where its headed. Is this aimed at being a trailerable mockup, or a
build-in-place assembly?" john-r says, "but to me, there has to be
something, beyond dreams to get to the final goal of a full lunar base, and
what i am talking about here, and in my intent when i ran for board, is a
start." kokhmmm . o O ( outside the box BUT Do Think about the Box or in
other words, turn the box inside out? ) john-r says, "Scotty, Trailable"
Scottyg-1 says, "Ok, that creates a lot of constraints, but I have a
picture in my mind now." MikeD-1 says, "I always understood that Leto was
to be a full size trailerable mockup" Scottyg-1 says, "Making it a real
research station may be in serious conflict with trailerable." MikeD-1
says, "Scotty, things can be made modular to get around the width and
height issues" Saavik yawns and heads to bed
saavik says, "night all"
saavik has disconnected.
john-r says, "No peter :) think outside the bos, but do think about the
box, :) it may need more time then we have tonight" dcarson says, "gnight"
kokhmmm says, "Actually, Leto was supposed to be a Moon Society mini theme
park near Las Vegas. We should really use a different name for the
trailerable mockup moonbase" Scottyg-1 says, "Anyway, go ahead John. I was
just asking, not opening a discussion." john-r says, "MikeD, the Full Leto
was to be in Las Vagas, a sort of research park and lunar base" kokhmmm
says, "LETO = Lunar Exploration and Tourism Organization, per Greg" MikeD-1
says, "well, considering how successful that theme park has been....."
MikeD-1 says, "LETO = Lunar Exploration and Tourism Organization does not
say Theme Park or Fixed Location" kokhmmm says, "We can talk about the name
offline" john-r says, "Scotty, true , the trailable , at first is not the
researc type station as Mars soc has, but its something to have The Artemis
Pro/Moon Society on its side to set up at any number of events" john-r
says, "its as much outreach / marketing , a few steps over a flyer, -
Something to see, and touch, and to just get a feel of what a base will be
in the early years" kokhmmm says, "The trailerable is to get us publicity
and help drum up funds for the fixed site simulation station, IMHO" MikeD-1
says, "I still worry about the labor aspects there John, it's not like whe
have a lot of people for sending on the road" john-r says, "i am trying to
catch up, just a sec" kokhmmm says, "Mike, do something exciting and the
volunteers will come - field of dreams" Scottyg-1 says, "I also worry about
the transportation costs, but would rather save that for another time." The
housekeeper arrives to cart saavik off to bed. kokhmmm says, "We need
something that doesn't need a truck-tractor" MikeD-1 says, "Peter, this is
not volunteer work, I've done staging and lighting, you need paid regular
staff or you are asking for a liability action" kokhmmm says, "Volunteer
for transportation?" john-r says, "Yes to Peter >>he trailerable is to get
us publicity" kokhmmm says, "The two Mars Outposts are run and managed
entirely by volunteers, carefully screened" john-r says, "so, at this
point, to try, another way of getting people interestested, is what i am
talking about, ok for an outpost project?" MikeD-1 says, "There are no
members of the general public near those outpost projects Peter" kokhmmm
says, "Yes, John, outpost project. On that level decisions can be made as
needed, promptly" MikeD-1 says, "Outpost involves a lot less liability"
kokhmmm says, "Funding is a question. How much help do you need? How much
can you put into it on your own?" kokhmmm says, "I know you can't answer
that, but have to thing about it. Aim at projects you can do on your own"
john-r says, "I can use all the help i can get, mostly i need the knowledge
of waht is real, i can fund the first shell project my self, till the wife
goes who ah :) anyway, in her mind, its a camper" Scottyg-1 says, "John,
have you discussed this with Robert Dahlquist?" MikeD-1 says, "Sorry guys,
I need to sleep." MikeD-1 says, "John when you and I discussed a
trailerable sort of roadshow idea almost 2 years ago neither of us knew the
budgetary constraints or even the manpower constraints we would be likely
to encounter" john-r says, "Not Other than posting to the leto team, it was
his comments a year ago that spurs me on, he wanted a trailer going down
the road with ASI" kokhmmm says, "It *IS* a camper, John, only for a lunar
campsite!" john-r says, "Nite Mike"
MikeD-1 says, "Yeah, Robert makes sheds and stuff" MikeD-1 says,
"commercially"
Scottyg-1 says, "He had done some preliminary planning for a similiar
project. You might find that sharing ideas (and resources) would be
useful." john-r says, "I wonder why he has not commented on the stuff i
posted, unless hes offended in some way?? or just busy with life" MikeD-1
says, "My guess is that Robert is busy" john-r says, "he did comment a yar
ago" Scottyg-1 says, "I wouldn't know, except I haven't seen much of him
lately." MikeD-1 says, "he's involved in T.O. and he also has his own
business" Scottyg-1 says, "I know he had given a fair amount of attention
to the transportation aspect." MikeD-1 says, "and living in a neighborhood
even more remote than John's he pretty much has to take all the business he
can get when he can get it" MikeD-1 says, "anyway, bedtime"
Scottyg-1 says, "I think his proposal was to build something at about 3/4
scale to make it trailerable without disassembly on a flatbed." john-r
says, "so, any other comments on OTR being my outpost project?" Scottyg-1
says, "But something I never quite understood about the Lunar Base was why
the flat side was vertical. Seems like it should be the floor." Scottyg-1
says, "With the flat side down, it would transport easier." john-r says,
"and i do need to talk to Randall on some isp questions, but i know he is a
wee bit tied up at the time" kokhmmm says, "On ISS, the flat side of
SpaceHab seems to be the roof!" john-r says, "Good Point Scotty, the flat
side was before me, in the art work and ADB" kokhmmm says, "I don't know if
Greg or Vic turned it" Scottyg-1 says, "Yep, me too John, and I never got
around to asking." john-r says, "i have seen the habitat as a vertical
application for space, the flat side IS so in the shuttle, it can be
accessed" MikeD-1 says, "flatside is the windows and only exists to allow
for the shuttle robot arm" kokhmmm says, "Scotty, with the flat side up, in
a saddle trailer (between the wheels) you'd have less total height - good
for clearance" irs says, "The reason we've got the flat side on the side is
that those are the built-in windows. Putting them on the floor kind of
kills the concept of having windows. And on the ceiling, it's a lot harder
to see out onto the surface." Scottyg-1 says, "Yep, that would be even
lower, although I think the height is ok with the flat side down." kokhmmm
says, "The portholes are on the flat side, agree with Ian" Scottyg-1 says,
"Paint 'em over and use video." kokhmmm says, "Unless we make it to ride
disassembled, standard bridge clearances may force us to scale it down"
john-r says, "LOL, all the discussion of windows, and in the end we are to
cover the darned thing with regroith " MikeD-1 fails to see why everybody
still thinks of a trailerable spacehab module mockup as being a one-piece
affair kokhmmm says, "John, there is an image in the ADB image directory of
it covered with regolith and a periscope attached to the porthole"
Scottyg-1 says, "Setup labor Mike."
Scottyg-1 says, "If it can be trailered intact and ready to show, it
becomes a drive-up, plug-in operation." john-r says, "Mike it does not
really matter, till i get to a point i can show some pictures, because my
mind has the thing in tip top condition - i just want it for my chapter
outpost project" MikeD-1 says, "I know that Scotty, but setup labor may not
be more costly than a crane driver with his crane" Scottyg-1 says, "Leave
it on the trailer." MikeD-1 says, "that poses a problem with 3 modules"
MikeD-1 says, "you now have something 15ft wide driving around" kokhmmm
says, "3 modules are only 30 feet long, in themselves" Scottyg-1 says,
"Thats part of the reasom for 3/4 scale" MikeD-1 says, "that's still pretty
big" Scottyg-1 says, "13.5 ft wide at full scale." kokhmmm says, "Got it,
get a RR sponsor and keep it on a flatbed, get free shipping to sidings for
shows, ha, ha" Scottyg-1 says, "THAT would certainly accomodate full size."
irs says, "I'm going to have to beg out, because I still have to pack for
the morning, and I'm not contributing much here." irs says, "Good night,
guys."
john-r says, "http://www.asi.org/private/leto/images/study01-02.gif what i
am driving around with -s a little over 8' wide and 12' tall plus wheels"
kokhmmm says, "goodnight, Ian!"
irs has disconnected.
john-r says, "baut again, it will be easier once i get to the first shell"
john-r says, "nite Ian"
MikeD-1 says, "are you trying something in grp John?" kokhmmm says, "The
first thing is to work backwards from the trailer you have available, John"
MikeD-1 says, "that's a good pointer Peter" john-r says, "yes, i agree"
kokhmmm says, "Even if the result is more modest than you'd like, it's the
most economical option for you and *will* do for publicity" Scottyg-1 says,
"Actually, you could omit the bottom part below the floor and not lose
anything important." Scottyg-1 says, "Then use something like a logging
trailer for the base." kokhmmm says, "You could show the *end* of the
bottom part, hanging off the trailer bed" john-r says, "MikeD grp??"
MikeD-1 says, "glass reinforced plastic" MikeD-1 says, "fiberglass"
john-r says, "is that the same as fiberglass?" kokhmmm says, "FRP"
john-r says, "i see now, that is one option" john-r says, "FRP is
reinforced fiberglass" The housekeeper arrives to cart irs off to bed.
MikeD-1 says, "iy does save on weight, but it needs structural members
designed into it" Scottyg-1 says, "Thats a nice way to do it, but the
materials are rather expensive." kokhmmm says, "John, are you familiar with
"glassboard" sometimes used in bathroom panelling? 4x8 and flexible and
looks glassy" john-r says, "yes"
MikeD-1 says, "is that like Acrylic?"
kokhmmm says, "Don't know how much punishment it would take, but you could
laminate it in layers" kokhmmm says, "Mike, it has a nubby texture." john-r
says, "its a hardboard(pressed board) masonite type product with an hiss
gloss finish" john-r says, "it may have an acry finish" john-r says,
"hiss=hill"
john-r says, "nooo high"
kokhmmm says, "I don't think so John. I bought a piece once. All plastic, I
think" john-r says, "is it wall paneling, or onlyl in pcs for around tubs?"
kokhmmm says, "I'll check it out at the local home center" MikeD-1 says,
"is this like the stuff the use in shower cubicles?" john-r says, "it may
be diff then"
kokhmmm says, "Yes, Mike"
kokhmmm says, "4x8 sheets, with special covers for screw heads, etc."
MikeD-1 says, "Ok, I know the stuff"
john-r says, "I wonder if Randall knows if he will be available for web
site discussion thurs nite of maybe friday day time?" MikeD-1 says, "I
don't think it does to well on impact especially with sharpish objects"
john-r says, "any way, its bedtime here" MikeD-1 says, "Randall couldn't
possibly *know* that yet" john-r says, "TY for the discussion"
MikeD-1 says, "The Navy could change his whole week" kokhmmm says, "You
would have to laminate it to some more durable substrate - time to
experiment" john-r says, "I was as much giving some warning, he may not
even be listening at the moment" MikeD-1 says, "Peter, what's that stuff
they use for coating the glass on busses and shops?" dcarson says, "john di
look at those pages" dcarson says, "
http://www.moonsociety.org/private/web-team/axandra_notes.html and
http://www.moonsociety.org/private/web-team/Axandra.html" MikeD-1 says,
"you can scratch is with a nail, but you wont put a rock tru it" kokhmmm
says, "Don't know about that, John" john-r says, "I have Dana, do you
understand them, from what i saw we have some good points, and others that
we need to deal with" MikeD-1 says, "they use it on both sides of the glass
to avoid breakage" MikeD-1 says, "or at leas breakins"
Scottyg-1 says, "John, one concept to think about is to build it with the
trailer as an integral part." john-r says, "that is my 1st option Scotty"
dcarson says, "the second page is the parts I thought sounded like we
should fix" john-r says, "i agree Dana"
kokhmmm says, "Yes, Scotty. Taking it on & off trailer would require labor
and be the occasion of accidente" john-r says, "Dana are you around this
week end? or do you have a con job :)" dcarson says, "the bits about how
many times a given word was used in comments etc sound like numerology to
me" Scottyg-1 says, "And lots of hassles with union crews at convention
centers." dcarson says, "bust Sat free Sunday"
kokhmmm says, "It should be a parking lot exhibit" john-r says, "and
besides, rigolith aup to the entry deck, and all the weels are coverd, and
one does not need the curved bottom at all" john-r says, "thats a point
Peter"
john-r says, "I will try Sunday Dana"
kokhmmm says, "Good night all!"
Scottyg-1 says, "If it was built around the trailer, the trailer would
provide the structural frame. Some parts could be removable for
transportation, like a decorative bottom shell and perhaps even the curved
top." john-r says, "on the second page, Dana, it was almost like throwing
out a lot of words, to make a thick report" kokhmmm says, "Sounds good,
Scotty"
Scottyg-1 says, "(I'm an engineer, so I think in these terms." john-r says,
"Now you are aeeing a greater part of what i am saying, almost(but not
total;y) do what it takes to make it work" kokhmmm says, "Meanwhile, I have
the start of a 1" to 1' scale model" john-r says, "good- any chance ready
for ISDC?" kokhmmm says, "a big tabletopper"
MikeD-1 says, "John some of your regolith wil actually be glued to a tarp"
john-r says, "orrr a big show stopper :)" kokhmmm says, "That would be a
challenge, John! No promise" Scottyg-1 says, "But I'm still worried about
transportation costs. Hiring a tractor for a cross-country trip is
expensive." john-r says, "theres a good point MikeD, less weight" john-r
says, "I challange Peter to a table show stoperer moon base duse the end of
may :)" MikeD-1 says, "that's why modular could be the way to go, if the
weight is low enough to allow someone to just use a small forklift" kokhmmm
says, "You do the next MMM and you're on!" MikeD-1 says, "oh god"
john-r says, "Scotty that is a concern for the 30' but not for a 10' puull
with my 3/4 ton PUT" kokhmmm says, "Next two MMms"
john-r says, "are they the short ones?" Scottyg-1 says, "Modular doesn't
really solve any problems. You still have the same volume to ship." MikeD-1
thinks about the incompatibilities between John's PC and Peter's Mac
Scottyg-1 says, "Three smaller trucks cost more than one big one I think."
kokhmmm says, "Pdfs and Html pages are universal, John" dcarson says, "they
haul horse trailers with pickup trucks and those with horses in them have
to weigh morethen this would" john-r says, "for the full 30' a 1 ton fifth
wheel may be strong enough" kokhmmm says, "Just, kidding, anyway. MMM is my
baby!" john-r says, "rats - i had ya on the run Peter :)" kokhmmm says,
"But I will get to work on it. But if I finish it, how will I get there on
the bus?" MikeD-1 says, "the way I had tought about doing it left
everything a size and weight that can be managed by 2 people, but it would
take time to assemble" john-r says, "Peter whats the overall box size 3'x4'
by 2'???" kokhmmm says, "Why don't each of us push our own concepts to the
limit and then share what we have?" john-r says, "yup, thats the best idea"
kokhmmm says, "Ultimately, it has to be built by someone, and the one doing
it has the veto" MikeD-1 says, "I can try, I really need to go to the hobby
supply store and get some materials so I can build a flatpack ockup"
MikeD-1 says, "s/ockup/mockup"
kokhmmm says, "How about going to the Macy's parade people and make an
inflatable?" MikeD-1 says, "well, if it could be built at a specially
arranged time then it might be possible for one or two to travel and lend a
hand" john-r says, "i have thought of that, but that has to costt several
thousand, and no way to walk in side" MikeD-1 says, "if you want an
inflatable, talk to Greg" kokhmmm says, "I could conceivably rendezvous at
John's" john-r says, "well, i have to sleep"
MikeD-1 says, "sure you can walk inside" john-r says, "nite all, and TY"
kokhmmm says, "good night"
kokhmmm has disconnected.
john-r says, "Mike is the recorder on?" MikeD-1 says, "people walk in
inflatable things all the time" MikeD-1 says, "I don't think it was turned
on" john-r says, "i was thinking of the Macy in the air parade items, as
opposed to inflatable pool buildings" MikeD-1 says, "do you want me to copy
and and email you before I go?" john-r says, "no, i have it all logged
tonight" john-r says, "unless i find it foulded up, in which case i will
ask ya next time" john-r says, "any way Nite all"
john-r has disconnected.
MikeD-1 says, "I will disconnect too, that way I know I have the log"
MikeD-1 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove MikeD-1. dcarson goes home.
Arthur says, "Goodnight - I need some sleep too" Arthur leaves.
Scottyg-1 says, "Same here."
Scottyg-1 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Scottyg-1. The housekeeper arrives to
cart kokhmmm off to bed. The housekeeper arrives to cart john-r off to bed.
Severy-5 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Severy-5. Severy has arrived.

-- End log: Thursday, March 18, 2004 1:16:43 am ASI Meeting Server time --