-- Start log: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 9:32:23 pm ASI Meeting Server time --

Greg-1 says, "It was worth $232.75 to learn that lesson, though." Severy-6
says, "That sounds similar to CyberTeams' experience with Google ads,
although our cost per ad was far higher :-(" Greg-1 says, "Steve, have you
ever tried Google ads?" Greg-1 says, "So far we're batting zero for three
experiences with Google ads." SJ must go. Will leave this window open and
read back. The only prepalnned inpupt I had for the meeting was: I think we
should quit saying "We need more members" and ask "WHY do we need more
members?" which will lead to the question "WHO do we want as members?"
Greg-1 says, "Ah, wisdom."
SJ says, "We do use Google ads; they have been worthwhile for us, though
they have not burned down the barn." john-r arrives.
Michael is back
kokhmmm says, "Steve, I agree. We have to target our recruiting for the
kind of people we need." Greg-1 says, "So, lesson learned: The
effectiveness of Google ads depends on the market. And perhaps on the
search terms you use." john-r says, "evening(just finished supper)"
garygray says, "It looks that way, Greg.!" Michael says, "IMHO, google ads
are more "impulse buy" kind of advertising.... a Moon Society membership is
much higher up Maslo's Pyramid of Need so the consideration time is much
longer." kokhmmm says, "Hi John"
Greg-1 says, "Yeah, what you said, Michael." john-r says, "read current on
recorder" john-r says, "oops"
Nancy says, "I have the information from, Missy. There was one new and six
renews. " garygray says, "Michael, only if you believe is Maslo concepts!"
Nancy says, "Thanks for waiting for us. :)" Greg-1 says, "If our web site
had something that would provide instant gratification, and if we had a
lower rate buy-in, we might produce results. Right now we don't have
anything that the casual web surfer wants to buy." Greg-1 says, "Thanks,
Nancy. Thank Missy, too. :)" Michael says, "gary, sure, its a very course
level of granularity, but for most marketing tasks it does seem to
work...." kokhmmm says, "Thanks Nancy (& Missy)"
Greg-1 says, "The number of people who are actively looking for a space
society to join is probably pretty near zero." Nancy says, "You're welcome."
garygray says, "Greg, probably so, Need to connect various issues to space
development!" Michael says, "yep... but the odds are much higher that we
payed $250 so that about 3000 people now know we exist.... that's not
totally useless..." Greg-1 says, "Regarding Steve's question: Why does the
Moon Society exist? That is the key benefit that the current members get
from the Moon Society?" Greg-1 says, "Erm... WHAT is the key benefit?"
Scottyg says, "I think Greg has hit the nail on the head." Greg-1 says,
"True, Michael. The impressions are important." Michael says, "An
international non-profit educational and scientific foundation formed to
further scientific study and development of the moon. " kokhmmm says, "We
offer a website, a newsletter, and a limited menu of ways to get involved.
It's a start but we need more." Greg-1 says, "We should say conduct or
advance instead of 'further'." Scottyg says, "I tell most every one I meet
about the Moon Society. Without exception, I get reactions from a rather
blank stare to a barely-suppressed snicker, and I've never had one -
without exception - that joined." Greg-1 says, "I think the absolute number
one top benefit of the Moon Society is that it provides a forum where
people can meet people who have the same interest in space development."
kokhmmm says, "Advance the Study? People want action, or study that leads
to action, no one joins us for knowledge' sake." Greg-1 says, "Scotty,
yeah. I got that a lot when I was at the Johnson Space Center." kokhmmm
says, "Greg, that reduces us to fan club, a place for people without a
life." Scottyg says, "I agree Peter. Societies like ours are perceived as
self-serving do-nothing organizations." Michael agrees with Peter on that
one
Scottyg says, "We have to have some very visible worthwhile activities
going on to attract members." Greg-1 says, "Aw, Peter, I think that's the
most cynical interpretation you can place on it." Michael says, "but its
true....."
Greg-1 says, "No, Michael, I disagree." Greg-1 says, "We don't need to be
'just a fan club'." Michael says, "the most we've done over the past two
years is put out some press releases praising other people's work.... "
garygray says, "That's is what I think we are trying to do when we
implement various low cost projects.!" Greg-1 says, "By performing the key
function of bringing people together, we increase opportunities for people
to Do Things." kokhmmm says, "That all NSS does is just talk, talk, talk is
the number one complaint of those who do not renew their NSS membership.
Why should this not apply to us also." Michael says, "sure, but given teh
Internet's ability to do that what value does the organization bring that
those people can't do on their own with things like yahoo groups?" Greg-1
says, "If we can also get some projects going, then we provide something
for those people to do." Michael says, "exactly..."
Michael says, "unless we're doing something we are just a fan club...."
kokhmmm says, "I agree, Greg, but we are not doing that effectively. I
think that analyzing how we could do a better job of what you highlight
would be very productive." kokhmmm says, "Can you have a list of ways of
how we can better put people together in a way that starts things, ready
for next meeting?" Michael says, "btw, the MDRS thing got significant
mention at the SFF conference last week... the #1 comment I heard was "yay!
they're doing something!"" Greg-1 says, "I'm thinking back over the past 10
years. We started with an organization based primarily on the work of one
guy. Almost everything else we did was to support the work of that one
guy." Greg-1 says, "Going back to the genesis of the L5 Society, it was
largely the same. The L5 Society was based on the results of one study
group." Michael says, "in open source project management that's called the
"benevolent dictator"... i.e. Linux Torvalds for Linux, etc...." Michael
says, "s/Linux/Linus/"
Scottyg says, "Linus Torvalds, for the record." Michael says, "btw, as I'm
doing this I'm also figuring out all of Masten's financial projections.....
" Michael says, "its actually kind of fun...." kokhmmm says, "I do think
Greg is on to something there. One way I have been considering getting key
people together is in workshops - but more on that another time." Scottyg
says, "Well, looks like the motherboard is fried in my internet-router
computer. :=(" Michael says, "that's something I mentioned at the SFF
meeting....so many of these conferences are just presentations. its such a
shame to get all those smart people in a room and just talk at them...."
kokhmmm says, "Also liaison projects. We have at least one person on the
inside in almost all the other organizations, with one exception. Do we
have anyone involved, not just a member like me, in the Planetary Society?"
Greg-1 says, "A flashy-but-mostly-worthless project like the MDRS might be
a key to getting members. Now *that* is a fan-club project if I ever saw
one -- a ramshackle clubhouse in the Utah desert." Greg-1 says, "Scotty,
did the power glitch do that?" kokhmmm says, "Greg, have you tried reading
the records and archives of what the various crews have done? Yes, some
noise, but also some worthwhile lessons. I very much disagree." Michael
says, "Greg, perception != reality " Greg-1 says, "Oh well. I won't argue
the point about the MDRS. " Michael says, "
http://rocketforge.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=302&mode=flat&order=0&thold=0"
kokhmmm says, "Does Randall have the gavel?" Michael says, "read the
comment.... very funny" Scottyg says, "Yes Greg."
garygray says, "Where are we on the agenda?!" john-r says, "lost ? :)
sidetracked?" Greg-1 says, "We were in membership services until I
distracted the conversation by saying something controversial about the
MDRS." garygray says, "Discussion never hurts, Greg!" kokhmmm says, "I
believe the next item is registration options" Greg-1 says, "There's still
the open question about the membership rates we're showing on the web."
Greg-1 says, "Can someone confirm that what we're showing at
http://www.moonsociety.org/register/ is correct?" Greg-1 says, "That's in
response to a note that Predrag sent to Missy. He thinks they're wrong."
Greg-1 says, "But I'm not seeing the error here." Greg-1 says, "He wasn't
specific about what was wrong." kokhmmm says, "It looks all right to me.
The $60 dollar rate is for hardcopy outside the USA and Canada and it says
so specifically" Scottyg says, "I'm rather certain the rates at /register/
are correct. They may be wrong in other places, especially old ASI
material." kokhmmm says, "He may have thought that the domestic hardcopy
rate should be 60 also but that ignores the tremendous difference in postal
rates." kokhmmm says, "If you go through the steps and get the actual
registration page, if you had inadvertantly said you lived in the US, when
you didn't, you'd get the wrong rate. That's all I can see" garygray says,
"Can someone contact hi, and asks him what he ment?!" Greg-1 says, "I
dunno, Peter. Could you check to make sure that what's being printed in
Moon Miners Manifesto matches that page?" kokhmmm says, "Greg, I'm sure it
does"
kokhmmm says, "Yes, it's correct on both page 9 and page 20" Greg-1 says,
"Missy will write to Predrag to ask what he meant." kokhmmm says, "Does
Predrag live overseas? (I suspect)" Greg-1 says, "Erm... Germany?"
Greg-1 says, "I think I've side-tracked us for long enough on that. :)"
kokhmmm says, "Okay, he does not currently get hardcopy. He may have
inadvertently clicked the hardcopy option and got the $60 quote when he
thought he was clicking the electronic option" john-r says, "i thought he
was in minnasota" kokhmmm says, "Wherever he lives, John, if he is getting
the electronic file, he should get the $35 rate unless he is a student or
senior." Greg-1 says, "Yeah, Predrag is in Ely, Minnesota" kokhmmm says,
"And that is a good seque to additional registration options" Greg-1 says,
"Oh, right. Do we have a proposal on the table?" Severy-6 says, "I'm a bit
distracted with several other things going on at once at the moment, so I'd
prefer not to be given the gavel for the time being..." kokhmmm says, "I
have a number of ideas here Greg. Last time we discussed a first year only
rate of $20 (electronic) for new members recruited by chapters or local
contacts. That did not seem a popular idea, though I think it could be a
help to chapters." kokhmmm says, "But I also want to discuss multi-year
options like 2 years for so much, 4 for so much as it would cut down the
renewal-registration work" Scottyg says, "Predrag selected Electronic
Newslatter on his last renewal and was charged $35.00" Scottyg says, "on
10/7/2004"
kokhmmm says, "Multiyear options: 2 years for $60, a savings of $10. 4
years for $100, a savings of $40" Greg-1 says, "Scotty, maybe Predrag was
looking for a discount if he went with electronic." Greg-1 says, "Anyhow,
Missy can ask him what he meant." kokhmmm says, "No, Greg, he mentioned
something about the $60 rate" Greg-1 says, "Peter, my thought is that it
might help to encourage multi-year subscriptions." Greg-1 says, "Erm...
memberships, too." Greg-1 says, "So I think that's a good idea." john-r
says, "i agree with multi year"
john-r says, "but...."
Greg-1 says, "We need to hear from Scotty about how involved it will be to
implement a change in the dues struture." Greg-1 says, "structure."
john-r says, "we may create a list of those who might ask for a credit from
past multi year- maybe not many " Greg-1 says, "We'll need to update the
web, the flyers, and the accounting system." Scottyg says, "Well, the
change is mostly in the online registration system." Greg-1 says, "John, I
think we can deal with that if it happens. Obviously it's a new policy that
was not applicable at the time they signed up." Scottyg says, "That system
was not very well implemented from the beginning, and as a result changes
like these are messy and time consuming." Greg-1 says, "On the other hand,
if we decided to make it applicable we could extend those memberships
proportionally and keep 'em around for another few months. :)" kokhmmm
says, "For flyers and the newsletter, all you have to say is that there may
be more favorable online registration rates" Greg-1 says, "Scotty, aw darn.
It's not a good time for 'messy and time-consuming'." Scottyg says, "No it
isn't."
kokhmmm says, "That's how the transportaion industry does it." Greg-1 says,
"It probably won't be a good time for messing and time-consuming until the
Spring of 2005." Severy-6 says, "One of these days I hope to finish up the
Team Director registration enhancements, that may help in that area" Greg-1
says, "... if even then."
Scottyg says, "I'm swamped until the end of the year." Greg-1 says,
"Scotty, yeah, that's why I said Spring." Greg-1 says, "There will for sure
be some tweaks and feature creatures even after it's operational." Greg-1
says, "Randall, will Team Director be able to take over the accounting
stuff?" Severy-6 says, "Yes"
Greg-1 says, "Oh! So there might be an opportunity here to get Scotty off
the hook for this kind of work!" Greg-1 says, "And to get it done more
quickly, too." Severy-6 says, "It will feed registrations and payments
directly into the membership database" Greg-1 says, "Will it have a tool to
enter all the possible registration options and incentives that
organizations might come up with?" Greg-1 says, "Such as multiple options
for subscription periods. And handling international rates." garygray says,
"I think we should try the multi-year memberships. If there are major
problems in the future we can stop the multi year program! " Greg-1 says,
"And different types of subscriptions such as our hardcopy vs. electronic."
Greg-1 says, "Gary, I agree that it's valuable. The only question is how
long it will take us to be prepared to handle it." Severy-6 says,
"Different registration options will be matter of setting up the
registration forms appropriately" Greg-1 says, "I know I've been lambasted
for harping on setting up the infrastructure to deal with these things, but
the alternative would be to announce it and then not have any way to deal
with it." Greg-1 says, "Randall, was that 'yes'? :)" Michael would like to
have that problem... ;-) Severy-6 says, "Yes :-)"
Greg-1 says, ":) :) :) :) :)"
Greg-1 says, "Michael, I've had that problem. The net result was a major
negative." Severy-6 says, "The Team Director registration system doesn't
know anything about the types of registrations that are supported, it's all
table-driven" Greg-1 says, "I'd say that the lack of preparing the
infrastructure is why we've had essentially zero progress on the Artemis
Project for the past six years or so." Greg-1 says, "Tables are good,
Randall. Very, very good!" john-r says, "so for tonight, we seem to agree
with multi year, and wait for a little while till team dir is ready, -
sound ok??" Greg-1 says, "John, yeah, what you said." kokhmmm says, "The
other thing in this area that I wanted to discuss is optional donations."
john-r says, "fo specific projects?"
john-r says, "for"
kokhmmm says, "Money could be donated for the acquisition of rights to
artwork " kokhmmm says, "Or for creation of teaching materials," kokhmmm
says, "Or for projects"
kokhmmm says, "Some will find "general funds" sexy enough. But more people
will give more money if they know it's going for something they really want
to push" Greg-1 says, "I agree, Peter."
kokhmmm says, "Again, we may have to wait until the software etc. is ready
for this, but then we should take it up again, and I'll have an itemized
list of suggested donation items ready" Scottyg says, "We've accepted
donations in the past for specific purposes, so this is not a change in
policy. We just haven't promoted it or suggested a list of purposes."
Greg-1 says, "Yeah. I think Peter is onto the key point by providing a list
of suggested donation items." kokhmmm says, "And we do need to be explicit.
Silence is presumed to mean a "no" although it should be taken as an "ask""
Scottyg says, "And I've been somewhat remiss in not setting those donations
aside in the accounting records." Greg-1 says, "It would be stronger if we
had some historical track record, of course. But the Moon Society can get
there." Greg-1 says, "Hmm... maybe some different line items in the budget,
Scotty?" Scottyg says, "I didn't mean planning for expenditures, I meant
separating those funds out on the balance sheet." kokhmmm says, "I think
the organization that does the best job raising money for specific items in
this way is the Planetary Society." kokhmmm says, "Scotty, when we list the
options we have selected, then they should become line items in the balance
sheet." kokhmmm says, "I am satisfied for now that there seems to be wide
agreement that this would be a helpful direction in which to go, once the
software apparatus is in place." john-r says, "yup"
kokhmmm says, "It is getting late, and I'd like to jumb ahead to the Board
of Advisors item." garygray says, ""Keeping specific fundidng is the best
way to keep track of it and also good for future fundraising!" Greg-1 says,
"Sounds good to me, Peter." Greg-1 says, "We never have done anything with
a Board of Advisors, mostly because I never had time to babysit one."
kokhmmm says, "I sent out an email after the last meeting titled "Board of
Adevisors - First Call"" Scottyg says, "Peter, you indicated that you
thought the bylaws called for "election" to the Board of Advisors. Article
VIII specifically indicates that they are appointed by the Board of
Directors." kokhmmm says, "It contained a list of people I'd like approval
to invite to join the Board of Advisors. " kokhmmm says, "These people will
be helpful to the projects now in the early phase I stages." Michael says,
"where is the current list 'o people?" kokhmmm says, "As we get into other
directions, we will want to add more." kokhmmm says, "Michael, do you mean
the list in the email mentioned? We have no current advisors." kokhmmm
says, "I can resend the list to Leaders" kokhmmm says, "Sent to Leaders
just now" Michael says, "hehe.... got mime swept!!!" Michael says, "The
following attachments were removed: multipart/mixed" john-r says, "i just
sent a copy of the e-mail- if its correct" kokhmmm says, "I copied the
message in a fresh letter "Board of Adevisors - First Call"" Michael says,
"Hmm....interesting that I didn't know a single name on that list...
heh...." Michael says, "would it be possible to put someone with more
business/marketing background on it?" john-r says, "like who?"
john-r says, "and the list does need people from maybe all areas of life"
kokhmmm says, "Michael, I am open to suggestions. The more complete list of
Advisors may have someone of that description. Those in this first list are
aimed at helping in projects now announced, and they do not seem to me to
require that kind of expertise, though it is always helpful to have that
point of view." kokhmmm says, "Again, John, Yes. The board of advisors,
once fully fleshed out should be very diverse. We have to start somewhere,
and I chose these people as being likely to agree, and having the talent
and knowledge to be helpful immediately." Michael says, "hmm.... someone
from both Transorbital and Lunacorp?" kokhmmm says, "Michael, yes,
eventually. " garygray says, "My understanding is that htia list can and
will be aded to in the future!" john-r says, "Gary - thats how i see it
also," kokhmmm says, "Yes, it is just a place to start, in order to support
what we are already doing. It will be expanded in due time." john-r says,
"Michael, who do you have in mind, Paul? or Charles?" Michael says,
"Paul...."
Greg-1 says, "Paul would be better at advising, yes." john-r says, "i an
not rem who is in luna corp, my mind is tired" kokhmmm says, "I am always
open to suggestions. Right now, I don't see what we are doing that would
interest TransOrbital, but that is only a matter of time." garygray says,
"Peter, I think your inital list is good even without any of my
recommendations!" kokhmmm says, "I am able to talk to Paul, yes." Michael
says, "Peter, they are still actively pursuing that deal with the Italian
radiometric survey so they may still need us to help with the fundraising
for that." Greg-1 says, "Although in the past, TransOrbital hasn't provided
much support for the Society other than to complain that the Society
members aren't doing slave-labor publicity jobs for TransOrbital." kokhmmm
says, "I will have to tread carefully. Two of my nominees once were
collaborators and now have nothing good to say about each other!" Michael
says, "Peter's new position Board Wrangler" Greg-1 says, "Give us a hint,
Peter, so that we don't repeat the same faux pas." kokhmmm says, "As to
procedure. I am asking for an okay to send these people invitations to join
the BoA. Or should I say that they have been nominated? I defer to
experience here." Michael says, "'drafted' is more like it.... ;-)" kokhmmm
says, "Greg: George French and David Dunlop." Greg-1 says, "We don't have a
historical precedent, Peter. I'd say that the list you sent sounds like a
great bunch of guys to have on a Board of Advisors." Greg-1 says, "Keep in
mind that once you've got them on board you'll need to invest considerable
time in babysitting them." Greg-1 says, "That is, give them something to
advise us about. Ask questions. Get them talking to each other in some sort
of forum." Greg-1 says, "Perhaps a mailing list."
Greg-1 says, "When you contact them it would be good to tell them what's
expected." kokhmmm says, "The first bunch I know personally, and I intend
to work them,=. I'lkl draft a letter and if you like, I can run it by you
before sending it, Greg." john-r says, "do we have access to mailing
lists?" john-r says, ":)"
kokhmmm says, "John, what do you mean?" john-r says, "Peter run the list
thu the leaders list, and i am ok with the list , and even trying to get
Paul involved" john-r says, "on the lists, i was teasing" Greg-1 says, "I'm
thinking of my experience on the Board of Advisors for the University of
Nevada. They needed me to show up at their brunch meetings. They're primary
interest was getting me to wheedle my boss into donating more money to the
college." john-r says, "i see your point Greg"
kokhmmm says, "I'm not the one to hit anyone up for money, Greg, so they
have nothing to fear from me. " Greg-1 says, "Other than that, nobody
contacted me for advice unless I initiated the contact. We had a lot of
discussion about setting up an Aerospace degree, but when Bob wouldn't give
'em money, they lost interest." Greg-1 says, "Peter, yeah. I was in a
unique situation. For a while everybody in the world saw me as a crowbar in
Bigelow's wallet." Greg-1 says, "When they found out that I wouldn't play
that role, my popularity rapidly waned." kokhmmm says, "Before we call it
quits tonight, I have an update on the India Moon Mission contest" Greg-1
says, "Oh neat!"
kokhmmm says, "People participated from other countries also, notably South
Africa and Bangladesh." kokhmmm says, "Two first place and one second place
winners have been picked. No, the entries were not run by me, but at my
request, they are on route to me via mail. " kokhmmm says, "What this means
as far as our commitment to prizes I will try to have ready for you next
time." kokhmmm says, "Does anyone else have anything they want to discuss
tonight?" Scottyg says, "A quick update on finances..." john-r says,
"listening"
Scottyg says, "Current bank balance is $14,480.55 and climbing slowly, so
we seem to be healthy." kokhmmm says, "We should not be afraid to spend
carefully and wisely to ensure growth in membership also!" Michael says,
"btw, the SFF has new leadership on the RTTM front and will be seeking our
help earlier and more productively than before...." Greg-1 says, "So, we
know we have some money and want to spend it on membership growth." Scottyg
says, "I agree. Some money in the bank is necessary, but we don't need but
about 1/3 of our current balance." Greg-1 says, "Steve's question -- What
kind of members do we want? -- is still foremost in my mind." Michael says,
"speaking of, I 'll need to get a check cut to reimburse me for the google
ads...." SJ says, "And I'm back."
Greg-1 says, "Aha! Speak of the... erm... Hi, Steve!" Greg-1 says, "Even
within the context of my belief that the key function of the Society is to
get like-minded people working together, we need to define what like minds
we would want to bring together." kokhmmm says, "Michael, anxious to hear
the details on RTTM. Keep me informed. I'll be wanting SFF help also."
Greg-1 says, "The hard-core professional scientist community is served
already by several organizations." Scottyg says, "I need a piece of Paper
Michael." Scottyg says, "Send it to the Plano PO Box." garygray says, "A
couple of months ago we talked about listing the abilities of people we
wanted to recruit, Perhaps we can go back to that list development!" Greg-1
says, "College students have the AIAA and the other engineering societies,
but those serve only engineering students." kokhmmm says, "Greg, yes. My
vote is for people interested in the private enterprise route to space, but
not adverse to governement roadblock clearing and other assistance."
Michael says, "Scotty, I'll send it later this week." Greg-1 says, "There
is nothing in the colleges for people in business, art, information
technologies, social sciences, or even physical education." Greg-1 says,
"Nothing in the colleges for people learning to be teachers." kokhmmm says,
"We should be a prototype of lunar society which will include people from
all walks of life" Greg-1 says, "Just what I was thinking, Peter." Greg-1
says, "And I think the Moon Society needs to reach out to people on their
own turf." Greg-1 says, "If they are interested in games and entertainment,
we should provide games and entertainment." Greg-1 says, "... always within
the context of developing and living on the moon." kokhmmm says, "Greg,
I've always tried to give MMM a very diversified encyclopedic reach to
interest all sorts of people." kokhmmm says, "But only some of them will be
interested in games. So we do that, but don't stop there." Greg-1 says,
"That's where projects like the Mars Desert Research Station have their
true value. I still think it's just a bunch of grown-ups playing
make-believe, no different from skiffy fans dressing up like the crew of
the Star Ship Enterprise, but it does reach out to an audience." Greg-1
says, "Peter, yes, I agree. Games aren't the end of it." SJ says, "The MDRS
is "What If?" And people who won't ask "what if?" aren't going to join this
group until there's a weekly shuttle to Luna." Greg-1 says, "I'm thinking
that anything we can do that enables people to vicariously enjoy living in
the moon would be good." SJ nods.
Greg-1 says, "Excellent point, Steve."
kokhmmm says, "Yes, vicarious stuff, -if it is realistic - helps whet the
appetite. But if its off in fantasy lalaland, I don't think its productive"
Greg-1 says, "We've tried to create a lunar city in ASI MOO. Unfortuantely
the text-based MOO isn't up to the current technology." SJ does not
advocate cheese mines in our Lunar sim. But nobody else is advocating that,
either. Greg-1 says, "Peter, right. No aliens." Michael says, "that was
discussed alittle last week when folks were talking about MMORPGs for space
simulations...." garygray says, "Greg do you know of some writeen
enterinment proposak that the Society could consider for a project?!"
Greg-1 says, "The audienc we want to appeal to would be those to whom it is
important that any simulation be technically accurate." Michael says,
"(this was the same session where the speaker asked John Carmack "I have to
disagree with your cost estimates, sir. What part of the game industry have
you worked in recently?"" kokhmmm says, "There should be a place in the new
lunar sims for exploring lavatube mazes." Michael says, "(the poor guy had
no idea who he was talking to)" Greg-1 says, "Gary, there's the one we're
working on -- Mary Cooper's lunar city in the Adobe Atmosphere
environment." SJ grins. What did Carmack say?
Greg-1 says, "I don't recognize the name, John Carmack." john-r says,
"Michael, that sounded so funny" Michael says, "he didn't really say
anything. The room just fell out laughing and in unison said "That's John
Carmack!" the poor guy just wanted to hide under the podium." john-r says,
"I read your rocket forge" Michael says, "Greg, John Carmack is the founder
of ID software and the guy who built the entire Doom/Quake franchise and is
also behind Armadillo Aerospace" Greg-1 says, "Oh!"
Greg-1 says, "I think I knew his dad, at McDonnell Douglas in Houston."
Greg-1 says, "Or maybe his father-in-law." Michael says, "John's a cool
guys... Masten and Armadillo share alot of information and spare parts."
Michael says, "all of the catalyst in our igniter came from John." Greg-1
says, "Was the gist of the questioner's comment that he thought Carmack was
over-estimating the size of the audience or the amount of money?" kokhmmm
says, "Michael, is Jonathan Goff working with you?" Michael says, "yep"
Greg-1 says, "Yeah, I get that a lot."
Greg-1 says, "There's always one in the crowd." john-r says, "its ben good
tonight, but the wife is reminding me of sleep time.." john-r says, "night
all"
Greg-1 says, "Ack, yeah, we're running overtime." Michael says, "Greg, size
of the amount of money needed to develop an MMORPG. They were simply
talking past each other because they were talking about two different
market segments. What hte speaker was talking about is PHP/Flash games, not
what I call real MMORPGs (i.e. evercrack, etc)" Greg-1 says, "Anyhow, I
think we need to cogitate on Steve's question." john-r says, "yup"
Greg-1 says, "I'm thinking that college students and skiffy fans are a good
target audience." john-r has disconnected.
Greg-1 says, "Because they DO ask "what if?"" Michael says, "gack! yea,
11:30! I have a 7:00 breakfast meeting tomorrow!" Michael says, "Greg, but
they also generally have very little cash...." garygray says, "Yes, it's
been a long day. Goodnight, People. Good meeting tonight!" kokhmmm says,
"Good night all!"
kokhmmm has disconnected.
garygray has disconnected.
Greg-1 says, "G'night Gary and Peter and John." Greg-1 says, "Think
strategically, Michael." Michael goes home.
Greg-1 says, "Besides, a little money from a lot of people sounds
appropriate to how I envision the Moon Society." Greg-1 says, "Hmmm...
speaking of audiences, I seem to have lost my audience for that discussion.
:)" SJ says, "If the only reason we want members is for their dues, are
there better ways to raise money?" Greg-1 says, "I agree with what you're
thinking, Steve." SJ says, "But yes, people are going home . . ." Greg-1
says, "I see members as Those Who Do Things and also provide an audience."
Greg-1 says, "Yeah, it's late."
Greg-1 says, "But I'm sure glad you brought up that very question." Greg-1
says, "It's a focus that we have been missing for quite some time." SJ
says, "It's been bothering me since the first director meeting I attended.
Much angst about membership and no clear reason why we should need them . .
. maybe it can be discussed further." Greg-1 says, "Yeah, I'll keep on 'em
about it. You can see that there are different visions for the basic
purpose of the Moon Society." The housekeeper arrives to cart john-r off to
bed. SJ . o O ( Moon Society /= Amway. )
Greg-1 says, "LOL"
SJ goes. Take care!
Greg-1 says, "Have a good one!"
SJ has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to cart kokhmmm off to bed. The housekeeper arrives
to cart garygray off to bed. Greg-1 says, "(Maybe someone should turn off
the recorder.)"

-- End log: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 11:33:06 pm ASI Meeting Server time--