-- Start log: Wednesday, January 5, 2005 9:15:07 pm ASI Meeting Server time-- 

kokhmmm says, "We have Randall here to chair the meeting for the first time
in a while. 3 Cheers !!!" Greg-2 says, "Did someone remember to wind up the
chairman?" kokhmmm says, "I think he's busy trying to find out the problem"
kokhmmm says, "cause of the problem"
Severy-6 just got a phone call IRL, but he will be right back. Greg-2 says,
"Yeah, could be."
MikeD-1 says, "eval here:announce_all("a raucous noisy mumbling of here
here and bravo by hundreds of MPs is heard throughout the house of
commons")" MikeD-1 hmms.
Greg-2 says, "Oh goody! We can gossip about him while he's not looking!"
kokhmmm says, "We've got a blizzard moving in here. Wonder how John is
doing?" MikeD-1 says, "that didn';t work cuz Im a clone" DaveW-2 says,
"send some of that my way peter....it was 75 here today" MikeD-1 says,
"sand some of that 75 my way Dave, it was nasty here today" MikeD-1 says,
"s/sand/send"
dcarson-1 says, "40 here today, was a lot warmer yesterday" MikeD-1 says,
"40 sounds about right for here today, but I'll bet it was mainly wind
chill" kokhmmm says, "Spent Christmas out in Port Angeles, WA across the
strait from Victoria, BC visiting Brother & Sister and their mates for a
week - air fare a gift from them" dcarson-1 says, "sounds like fun"
kokhmmm says, "Yup, except my blood presure was spiking, caused a flurry
but it's back under control." MikeD-1 says, "hmm, according to the Irish
Met office it was 5 deg C here, about 41 deg F" kokhmmm [to get]: a cheap
ticket, I had to fly Milwaukee to Seattle via Dallas - long trip. Greg-2
says, "That's neat, Peter! Melva's home town is Port Angeles, WA." MikeD-1
says, "talk about doing a dogleg" john-r arrives.
MikeD-1 says, "Hi John"
kokhmmm says, "My first time in PA and up at the ridge was back in 1969.
This was my tenth trip out there" kokhmmm says, "Hi, John. How's the snow?"
john-r says, "Hi Mike and Peter - the snow mwlted 6 days after it snowed ..
it was up to 50 last week and now we are on our 3rd dtrait day of rain"
kokhmmm says, "We're shovelling, up here." john-r says, "we may get some
snow or ice later tonight" kokhmmm says, "Hope it's not ice!"
john-r says, "me too"
MikeD-1 says, "ice is bad"
MikeD-1 says, "especially after 5 days of rain" Greg-2 says, "Unless you
find it on the moon." MikeD-1 says, "that's different"
MikeD-1 says, "speaking of the moon"
kokhmmm says, "It won't be slippery there." john-r says, "
http://www.wthitv.com/images/LiveWeather/radarmedium.jpg" john-r says, "i
ma close to the b in bloomington" MikeD-1 says, "is that green blob the
rain?" MikeD-1 says, "so, what's it doing, just sitting there?" john-r
says, "seems that way "
MikeD-1 says, "no wind eh?"
kokhmmm says, "Didn't realize you were so close to Charleston, Columbus,
Washington, and Brazil!" Greg-2 says, "Hmm... so... Peter... how are Paper
Renewal notices doing?" Greg-2 says, "(Nancy is off line for a moment. We
sort of lost her to family business.)" Nancy-1 says, "We had 9 renews and 3
news this time. :)" Greg-2 says, "LOL"
Greg-2 says, "Or not."
kokhmmm says, "I sent off 13 so far. Next round of 16 next week" Nancy-1
says, "LOL"
Greg-2 says, "Yay!"
john-r says, "3 new thats good"
Michael arrives.
kokhmmm says, "9 renews is good too"
Michael says, "just got back from racquetball...." Greg-2 says, "OK, so
that's all the action items we assign to Michael. Next on the agenda is
Advisor Invitations." Greg-2 says, ":)"
Michael says, "nyuck nyuck nyuck"
kokhmmm says, "I have just sent them out. No responses yet. Some respond
quickly, others sit on it a couple of weeks" Greg-2 says, "Somewhere in
here we ought to officially acknowledge that Steve Jackson resigned from
the Moon Society Board of Directors today." kokhmmm says, "Sorry to here
that. "
Michael says, "http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050105/clw048_1.html" Greg-2
says, "Peter, yeah. If they're like me it could be a long wait." Michael
says, "any idea why he resigned other than what's in his email?" Greg-2
says, "Not here. I think he pretty much said it all in his note to the
Leaders list." Greg-2 says, "If there's no discussion on the items so far,
shall we hear about the India chapter?" MikeD-1 says, "I get the impression
he thinks we spend too much time beating about the bush. What ever gave him
that imression, I've no idea." dcarson-1 says, "we should send him a reply
of some sort thanking him etc." kokhmmm says, "The India chapter. First
there was the tsunami scare. One of our guys, Rohan Sahani lives near the
coast in one of the affedcted areas." MikeD-1 says, "Are the members of the
India Chapter ok?" kokhmmm says, "But he was safely out of town, and all is
okay." Greg-2 says, "I'm not sure. Which bush would we beating about? And
would people really want a bush that can be fitted nasally?" Greg-2 says,
"That's good news! :)"
kokhmmm says, "Rohan is working on a new Moon Mission Contest sponsored by
the chapter. Theo Allen Fernanedes is working on the web site" Greg-2 says,
"Got a URL for their web site, Peter?" Michael wonders if he should
resign.... MikeD-1 says, "http://www.moonsociety.org/chapters/india"
Michael says, "refactored networks is going to keep me so damn busy I'll be
even more useless...." MikeD-1 says, "hasn't done much yet"
Greg-2 says, "You got something going with Steve, Michael? :)" kokhmmm
says, "That's it for India. "
Greg-2 says, "The next thing we'll hear is that the two of you have eloped
to Borneo!" Michael says, "Greg, heh... nope... games just aren't my
thing... I play 'em, not design 'em." kokhmmm says, "Got a call from Steve
Durst of Space Age Press wondering if we were going to repeat our India
success elsewhere." kokhmmm says, "Had to explain that this was a result of
serendipity." Greg-2 says, "But significantly, you took advantage of the
serendipity!" kokhmmm says, "With no idea of where it would lead, Greg."
MikeD-1 says, "How could we possibly go about doing the same thing with
other countries?" john-r is in and around and afkb at times kokhmmm says,
"I don't know Mike. India is a place where there is a lot of interest in
the Moon right now. China also, but I wouldn't expect that we could crack
that nut." MikeD-1 says, "it would do us more good to get something going
in Europe than China right now" MikeD-1 says, "but each little tin-pot
dictatorship like Ireland is a separate entity" dcarson-1 says, "what we'd
need is for someone in another country to ot\rganize something moon
related" MikeD-1 says, "westerners don't look at the sky anymore" MikeD-1
says, "they're too busy ruining the environment" MikeD-1 says, "or saving
it"
kokhmmm says, "I think that there may be more interest in Europe right now
because of Smart-1, or maybe there will be when results start coming in in
a couple of weeks" Greg-2 says, "Dana, yeah. And they also have to want to
do it under the banner of the Moon Society instead of being off doing their
own thang." Greg-2 says, "It seems like the Moon Society should be doing
*something* related to SMART-1." kokhmmm says, "Thang? Greg, that's a
ghetto word. I live there and I hear thang all the time." Greg-2 says,
"Even if it's just a link to a SMART-1 web site." MikeD-1 says, "therein
lies a problem Greg, Europe in general is quite anti American right now,
and they would see Moon Society as American" kokhmmm says, "We could update
the Moon Mission Page that Arthur put up." kokhmmm says, "But a link on the
front page would be better" MikeD-1 says, "We have a link to the SMART-1
website on the Yahoo Group Links page" Greg-2 says, "Let's be precise:
Television moguls and some politicians in Euroipe are anti-American right
now." kokhmmm says, "Not just in Europe!"
MikeD-1 says, "there ya go Greg, that sums it up nicely, and all oppressed
people do what TV moguls tell them" Greg-2 says, "Too true. Hatred for
America is the mainstay of liberal elitists in the United States, too.
Always has been." Michael seems to remember large numbers of American flags
flying in the squares during the Ukrainian protests.... kokhmmm says, "Next
topic"
MikeD-1 says, "Fortunately I currently reside in the British Isles, so at
least we can understand what you're actually saying and not what the TV
presenter says you're saying" Greg-2 says, "Next on your agenda is Lunar
Directory Additions, Peter." MikeD-1 says, "Ukraine and Poland would be
quite pro Western in general" Michael says, "btw, I put out my first PR
Newswire release this morning. Amazignly cheap given where it ends up....
definitely something the society should use the next time it has something
to say...." kokhmmm says, "I invited Alan Binder to list his institute and
he agreed. But there is no link to it yet. Invited Oregon L5, and will be
inviting more." MikeD-1 says, "Where would the link go Peter?" kokhmmm
says, "As it is, the Lunar Directory leaves out too many important players
and that looks bad for us." kokhmmm says, "The link would go on the Lunar
Directory page, just click on Lunar Directory in the right hand
destinations menu" kokhmmm says, "I sent john the blurb and the logo"
Michael still thinks the ADB and things like the directory should be a
wiki. But he always looses that discussion so he'll shut up now.... MikeD-1
says, "what about the security issues Michael?" MikeD-1 says, "or would the
wiki be behind our usual door dragons?" Michael says, "you require accounts
to do edits. Plus most wikis have rollback capabilities...." Michael says,
"but you shouldn't have to be a member to add to or fix the ADB....."
Michael says, "just my .02"
MikeD-1 says, "using a wiki for adb would require a redesign" MikeD-1 says,
"all the indexes and links are dynamic" kokhmmm says, "I also put up a
conferences 2005 page, but the link to it in the right hand menu is not up
yet. Looks bad that we have links to 2003 and 2004 conferences, but not
2005" MikeD-1 says, "the /l/a/y/o/u/t/ of the adb is quite a challenge to
navigate" MikeD-1 says, "we should have put up the 2005 section months ago"
kokhmmm says, "I agree heatily that the ADB needs a radical overhaul, but
that is for ASI and this is TMS" kokhmmm says, "heartily"
MikeD-1 says, "that's something that should be about 6 months ahead"
MikeD-1 will be right back.
MikeD-1 says, "I need some milk"
kokhmmm says, "The last time I tried to attend an ASI leaders meeting,
there was no meeting. Are ASI leaders meeting on the 3rd Wed of the month
still?" kokhmmm says, "Mike, did you just eat some cookies?" MikeD-1 says,
"no"
kokhmmm says, "Mike, was that no to cookies, or no to ASI meetings?"
MikeD-1 says, "that was no to cookies"
john-r says, "is one of those nights // i need to sleep night all" kokhmmm
says, "Do any of the leaders want to speak at ISDC 2005 about the Society,
about Artemis, about the Moon, about anything, or be on a panel discussion?
If so let me know soon" john-r has disconnected.
kokhmmm says, "Good night John"
MikeD-1 says, "Where is ISDC 2005?"
kokhmmm says, "Washington Dc, Arlington, actually" DaveW-2 says, "when?"
MikeD-1 says, "Do they have a banner we can use to link to their website
yet?" kokhmmm says, "Weekend before Memorial Day weekend" kokhmmm says,
"I'll have to ask them again, Mike." MikeD-1 says, "Do they have a website
yet?" kokhmmm says, "I'll be contacting them tomorrow anyway." kokhmmm
says, "BTW, Greb, are our talks with George on hold?" MikeD-1 says, "I
don't see why they don't just use isdc.nss.org/<year>" dcarson-1 says, "
http://isdc.nss.org/2005/" kokhmmm says, "Mike, a lot of us have access to
nsschapters.org but not to nss.org so it is a lot easier to get something
up on the chapter server, and then link to it on nss.org later" MikeD-1
says, "ok, it's usable, but http://isdc.nss.org/2005/isdc_logo_250.gif is
an awfully big bloody banner" kokhmmm says, "There is no consistency on
ISDC urls." kokhmmm says, "Can we downsize it Mike?" MikeD-1 says, "maybe
they need to think about consistency for the future" The housekeeper
arrives to cart john-r off to bed. MikeD-1 says, "Sure we can downsize, but
the writing will look like crap" MikeD-1 says, "it's also a vertical
banner" kokhmmm says, "I'll bring up these concerns, Mike and see if they
can come up with a smaller horizontal one." MikeD-1 says, "it can downsize
to 50% without too much problem, but not in the browser. that knocks it
down to 125 x 207 pixels" MikeD-1 says, "the original is 250 x 413" kokhmmm
says, "Actually, Mike, that is not a banner. It is their poster." MikeD-1
says, "that would work as a banner if resized" kokhmmm says, "I'll bring
that up with them." MikeD-1 says, "ok, this is their banner
http://isdc.nss.org/2005/logo1.gif" MikeD-1 says, "far less attractive"
kokhmmm says, "They may not have the services of an artist." MikeD-1 says,
"they do, that poster was designed by an artist" kokhmmm says, "I also need
to find out what speakers they have invited, and which have already
responded. It's gettng late. I expect to be speaking." Greg-2 says, "Peter,
I think we'll need to get Randall's attention to find out the status of the
Moon Society doing something with the National Space Society." Greg-2 says,
"The last I heard NSS was in a bit of an organizational dither so they did
put us on hold." kokhmmm says, "There is still a serious board war going o
n Greg" Greg-2 says, "Oh dear."
kokhmmm says, "They are making no progress towards resolving anything,
according to my sources." kokhmmm says, "On the Rent-MDRS project, I am
getting ready to go to Utah for two weeks, 2/5-20, to have a look see. I am
disappointed by not getting any dates this season. " kokhmmm says, "Do you
think we should ask for fall 2005 or Spring 2006?" MikeD-1 says, "I'd say
spring 2006"
kokhmmm says, "So I will miss the February 16th meeting, but I will file
reports." Greg-2 says, "The longer we wait, the more difficult it will be
to maintain interest, but on the other hand the extra wait gives us more
time to build interest." MikeD-1 says, "Thing is Peter, we'll have lots of
activity now until about the middle of April, then it'll go quiet until
about October, so getting anything organized in time for fall 2005 is
unlikely" Greg-2 says, "So I'm tending to think like Mike. Later might be
better." MikeD-1 says, "Spring 2006 gives us spring and fall 2005 to work
on it. Summer is a nothing" kokhmmm says, "I don't understand the thinking
behind their "field season" I see the need to avoid summer, but they are
including too much winter." MikeD-1 says, "not for their purposes Peter"
MikeD-1 says, "Mars is cold"
kokhmmm says, "We probably have to take what's left over. When the requests
come in, we probably have lowest priority." MikeD-1 says, "depends on their
own priorities" MikeD-1 says, "if they need the money, we get higher
priority" kokhmmm says, "BTW, I will be bringing with me a gift for MDRS,
the first forest on Mars/Mdrs in the form of a Bonsai house plant." Greg-2
says, "*chortle*"
MikeD-1 says, "now there's a thought"
kokhmmm says, "On the money. I imagine that I need the blessing of the
board to start fereting out potential sponsors." MikeD-1 says, "if we can
get this going, then we can plug it quite heavilly and get people
interested" Greg-2 says, "Hmmm... I suppose so, Peter, although the board
would more interested in a budget proposal." kokhmmm says, "I will be
working with another person totally redoing the wiring of MDRS, and when I
am done, I'll be helping with the plumbing redo. Hope to get some EVA time
in. And I'll be measuring everything, mapping everything, filming
everything." MikeD-1 says, "would we be able to bring some of our own
experiments?" Greg-2 says, "It doesn't sound like the Moon Society needs to
commit to spending any of its own funds on this." kokhmmm says, "The Budget
includes $7G for rent, perhaps $600 for food - I think we are looking at
$10G for a comfortable margin, Greg" Greg-2 says, "Heh. Are they going to
pay you for redoing all the plumbing and wiring?" MikeD-1 says, "hell no"
kokhmmm says, "No, we shouldn't even be thinking of putting in any of our
own money." MikeD-1 says, "So who do we get as sponsors, and how?" kokhmmm
says, "Greg, yes they are paying me in terms of free food and free lodging
and a great experience!" MikeD-1 says, "I'd sooner have 10 smaller sponsors
than one big one btw" Greg-2 says, "That's worth something!"
MikeD-1 says, "oh. so you didn't have to bring your own food, that helps"
kokhmmm says, "Well, one big sponsor would be fine, plus a lot of little
ones. After all, there should be some publicity in it for them." dcarson-1
says, "its often a constant amount of work to get the money per sponser so
fewer is easier" MikeD-1 says, "big sponsors are dangerous" MikeD-1 says,
"it's not like $10k is a huge amount though" kokhmmm says, "Why do you say
that? Both the Devon Island and the Utah site have had three $100 G
sponsors between them. No strings." MikeD-1 says, "really?"
MikeD-1 says, "who were those sponsors?" kokhmmm says, "Flashline, FINDS,
and I'll have to look up the other one." kokhmmm says, "We could also just
write a grant proposal. But I have no experience doing that." MikeD-1 says,
"you will have that experience in the next couple of weeks" kokhmmm says,
"I plan to start by asking George French for leads, in the hope that he
just agrees to fund it himself." MikeD-1 says, "sponsorship proposal, grant
proposal and proposal to the board should all contain *about* the same
information" kokhmmm says, "I'm just wondering if I need to take a crash
course on the subject, so that I don't make some stupid mistake." MikeD-1
says, "sponsorship prposals of course have to contain the "what's in it for
the sponsor" section too" kokhmmm says, "What's in it for the sponsor is
that he gets to say that his/her company is funding this project. Period."
MikeD-1 says, "Could we get Chip onboard with his video kit?" kokhmmm says,
"Chip may be looking for money himself." MikeD-1 says, "Yes Peter, but
where and how and for how long does the sponsor get to say that?" MikeD-1
says, "Yeah but Chip would be making out first documentary for Discovery"
kokhmmm says, "But I could simply ask him if he knows someone, some company
that might be worth approaching. If he doesn't suggest his own enterprise,
that answers that question." dcarson-1 says, "http://www.npguides.org/"
kokhmmm says, "Unfortunately, Mike, it's just for one two week period.
Unlike sponsorship of the construction of the outpost which is good for
some years." MikeD-1 says, "Would the session be exclusive to the Moon
Society" dcarson-1 says, "http://www.nonprofits.org/npofaq/19/64.html"
MikeD-1 says, "There are ways of making it worthwhile over a longer period
Peter." kokhmmm says, "Dana, thanks for the URLs, Mike, why don't you send
me an email with what you have in mind. I can use all the ammunition I can
get." MikeD-1 says, "Remember this would be well documented on our website
for many years, the sponsor's name would still be in there" dcarson-1 says,
"http://www.lib.msu.edu/harris23/grants/2sci.htm" kokhmmm says, "In other
words, he gets to put it on his/his company's resume." kokhmmm says,
"Charles Radley expressed the belief that StarChaser would be ripe for
this." MikeD-1 says, "I've seen some of the documentaries the Mars Society
did from one of the outposts, and it would be interesting to be able to do
our own documentary and highlight the similarities and differences in
requirements" MikeD-1 says, "The other Mr Bennett in the UK?" kokhmmm says,
"I guess so, Mike. And yes, we want to aim at documentaries. We want to
work every possible short term and long term publicity angle." MikeD-1
says, "http://www.starchaser.co.uk/" MikeD-1 says, "CEO Steve Bennett"
MikeD-1 says, "the guy builds rockets"
kokhmmm says, "He was going for the X-Prize, I think. He may be the 3rd
$100G donor " kokhmmm says, "I have another idea I've been simmering on the
back burner for a while, slowly working on it. A project that even if it
fails, get's us publicity and members. A bold idea." MikeD-1 says, "He was
going for the X-Prize, but he seems to have let that go sometime early last
year when the writing on the wall became so clear, he seems to be
concentrating on a 3 man capsule to top off an RLV" kokhmmm says, "Remember
the old Amateur Space Telescope idea? Failed for a lot of reasons,
including Challenger." MikeD-1 says, "yeah"
MikeD-1 says, "that's very do-able"
MikeD-1 says, "given a chunk of money"
MikeD-1 says, "we wouldn't have to come up with the money ourselves
however, we'd just have to act as a facilitator" kokhmmm says, "I have
another idea. A pair of telescopes, one each to L4 and L5 where they would
give amateurs on Earth first time access around both limbs, access to 83%
of the total lunar globe, 92% if you factor in libration." kokhmmm says,
"There's a midwest Astronomical League Convention in Wisconsin next April,
and another in Springfield, MO in the summer. " kokhmmm says, "MMight see
if I can drum up some support." dcarson-1 says, "these people?
http://www.issat.org/" MikeD-1 says, "that's nice, but just a regular
orbital telescope with connection to a server would be enough to start
with" MikeD-1 says, "that's another possibility" kokhmmm says, "Mike, the
farside is the big prize." kokhmmm says, "It's enough of a prize to drum up
a lot of support and enthusiasm where just one in LEO would meet a hoh hum
reception " MikeD-1 says, "Peter, the unobstructed view of 10 times the
number of stars for every astronomer with a computer is the prize along
with better details of the moon and mars etc" kokhmmm says, "A lot of time
has gone by since the first one was designed, so time is ripe to start
fresh." MikeD-1 says, "but 2 telescopes to 2 lagrange points is more than
twice the project that one orbital telescope is" kokhmmm says, "But that
doesn't help us. We may like the stars, but we're pushing the Moon."
kokhmmm says, "If the new space initiative proceeds, there will be a lot of
new interest in the Moon." MikeD-1 says, "so they get *much* better mapping
of the nearside plus all the extra stars etc" MikeD-1 says, "it still helps
us, it makes us credible" kokhmmm says, "Anyway, just letting you know that
I am going to send out a few feelers." kokhmmm says, "If the idea falls
flat, it falls flat. Nothing ventured, nothing gained." MikeD-1 says,
"yeah, but now you have a re-hash item" MikeD-1 says, "two in fact"
kokhmmm says, "Also I have a "discovery" mission party that is headed for
Sudbury in September. Three Moon Society members." MikeD-1 says, "there's
your double scope, there's half the double scope and there's a simple
orbital scope" MikeD-1 says, "all connected to servers for access by
amatuer astronomers all over the world." kokhmmm says, "Mike, could do just
one Lagrange position scope for starters. Then add the second." MikeD-1
says, "for an appropriate fee of course" MikeD-1 says, "yes Peter that's
re-hash #1" MikeD-1 says, "re-hash #2 is a simple orbital scope" kokhmmm
says, "I don't see it as resurrecting the former amateur telescope design.
A generation has gone by. It will be all new." MikeD-1 says, "remember,
hubble can only barely focus on something as close as the moon, but a
fairly regular 15 inch scope could do that much better, you can make it
more moon friendly by insisting that 25% of the time it must be trained on
the moon" kokhmmm says, "Well, it is getting past time. Low attendance
today. But good discussion all the same. Thanks, Greg, Dana, Mike!" MikeD-1
says, "I know what you see Peter, I'm just suggesting cheaper alternatives"
MikeD-1 says, "the ultimate would be to put up enough to get full coverage
of the moon" kokhmmm says, "I think this is a case where the cheaper modest
proposal will not attract the money, that the more ambitious proposal will.
IMHO. But I'll soon find out when I get feedback." MikeD-1 says, "but
that's a whole nother story" MikeD-1 says, "I think it would attract the
money" MikeD-1 says, "if it's proposed the right way" kokhmmm says,
"Remember, I'm aiming this at those who already are preoccupied with
observing the Moon. There's at least two such groups out there in the US"
MikeD-1 says, "there are about 800 members in the Moon Observers Yahoo
Group" MikeD-1 says, "I had to drop that group, I couldn't keep up with the
traffic" kokhmmm says, "Full coverage would be difficult. That last 8%
sliver of deep farside is hard to reach except from L2, which requires
station keeping fuel plus a relay." kokhmmm says, "There's also the
American Lunar Society and the Association of Lunar & Planetary
Astronomers, Lunar Section." MikeD-1 says, "but Peter, there is no space
telescope accessible to the masses at present anyway, so anything would be
a bonus" MikeD-1 says, "and one scope in LEO would be way less than 50% of
the cost of even one scope at a lagrange point" kokhmmm says, "Light bulb!
When the scope at L4 (or L5) was looking at a hemisphere under new moon
conditions, all dark, it would be available for amateur astronomers of the
stellar persuasion." MikeD-1 says, "gee, they get one day a month, sorry"
kokhmmm says, "Mike, that's true, but where is the connection with the Moon
Society of a general astronomical instrument." MikeD-1 says, "the
connection with the Moonb Society will be very very obvious, the name will
be plastered all over the software and website" MikeD-1 says, "and it'd a
lot easier to get the money if you don't restrict the stargazers
unreasonably" MikeD-1 says, "plus nobody actually observes the full moon
anyway, can't see any detail" kokhmmm says, "Actually, more than that. 2/3
of the field of view of each would be of nearside. So when all the farside
portion in their field of view was dark, some 60 degrees worth, which would
hold true for each scope for 1/3 or th month, it could be used for other
purposes unless someone had a research proposal in to use it for the
nearside area. ???" kokhmmm says, "Now if the observing portal was our
website?" MikeD-1 says, "that's what I've been trying to tell you" MikeD-1
says, "not our existing website, but a special one, but still ours" kokhmmm
says, "I still think that unless we provide access for farside, something
no astronomer now has, it both won't fly, and there's no reason for us to
spend the effort organizing this." MikeD-1 says, "that's why you don't have
to be so restrictive to the stargazers, the more freedom you give them, the
more they'll come over to out side" MikeD-1 says, "Peter, no astromer
ouside the major observatories has a view from *outside* the atmosphere of
anything" kokhmmm says, "I learned a long time ago, that interest in the
stars does not equal interest in space. Can't understand that, but it is
too true." kokhmmm says, "Mike, amateurs can and do use the Hubble. I know
two who have." MikeD-1 says, "two"
MikeD-1 says, "We're talking 20 thousand astronomers" MikeD-1 says, "or
more"
kokhmmm says, "I just happen to know them personally. There is a big
program to involve amateurs with Hubble. There may be thousands who have."
kokhmmm says, "You have to have a proposal that meets peer review. "
MikeD-1 says, "the problem with hubble is that it's mainly intended for the
observatories and they and NASA get first call" dcarson-1 says, "also
people like this http://www.group70.org/ a 70" amateur scope" kokhmmm says,
"Now with a telescope aimed at the Moon, you could either do it the same
way, giving the control of the aim to someonw whose proposal passes muster,
or you could just preprogram it and let everyone watch." kokhmmm says, "Or
both, on different schedules." kokhmmm says, "Also, it could be used 24/7
by people regardless of whether it was night or day where they were
located." MikeD-1 says, "there is a group of amatuer astronomers who have
land based telescopes connected online, those guys actually make a profit"
kokhmmm says, "Anyway, my game plan is first to run this by Chuck Wood of
LPOD and Eric Douglass of the American Lunar Society, and see what they
think. I will mention your counterproposals." MikeD-1 says, "I know all the
pros and cons Peter, my only arguments are that 2 at lagrange points would
cost a lot and take a long time to do, 1 in LEO would be faster and cheaper
and give us enough credibility to do the others" MikeD-1 says, "and we
would only be a non-profit service provider" MikeD-1 says, "though I
believe we can have an operating surplus as long as it is all suitably
re-invested, not sure about that though" kokhmmm says, "But as I will have
too too much shoveling in the morning, I need to turn in. We could do just
one Lagrange scope to start. Good night and thanks much. Email me with any
further thoughts, Mike." kokhmmm has disconnected.
MikeD-1 says, "It's a pipe dream, unless he allows more freedom for the
stargazers" dcarson-1 says, "nonproits are allowed to have a reasonable
surplus, IIRC one years expenses is easy to justify to the IRS" MikeD-1
says, "especially if the money is earmarked for a future project, or even
spent in development" MikeD-1 says, "What I don't think Peter gets is that
for every moon observer there are about 10-20 stargazers and curtailing
their activities that way would mean they wont use it so the astronomy
clubs wont put up any money for it" The housekeeper arrives to cart kokhmmm
off to bed. MikeD-1 says, "they would tolerate time allocations up to about
25% for luna however, especially if it's not all in one big block"
dcarson-1 says, "another thing where we need to write up a clear proposal
instead of just discussing it online" MikeD-1 says, "yup"
MikeD-1 says, "these are all things that need to be done properly" MikeD-1
says, "but of course if people only login for meetings, then they don't get
to discuss stuff except for that one or two hours a week" dcarson-1 says,
"do the writeup, email url, discuss changes next meeting, slow but it
works" MikeD-1 says, "very slow, we need to get some of the old working
committees *working* again" dcarson-1 says, "true"
MikeD-1 says, "trash the stuff out for 2 weeks then come back with
something much more workable" MikeD-1 says, "mark my word, Peter will come
back and say that his two astronomer buddies told him almost exactly the
same thing I did" MikeD-1 says, "remember, they'd be the ones paying for
it" MikeD-1 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove MikeD-1. Scottyg has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to cart Scottyg off to bed. dcarson-1 goes home.
Nancy-1 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Nancy-1. Severy-6 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Severy-6. Michael goes home.
DaveW-2 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove DaveW-2. Greg-2 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Greg-2. Nancy-1 arrives.
Greg-1 arrives amidst thundering applause. Greg-1 says, ":)"
Nancy-1 )
Nancy-1 says, ":)""
DaveW-1 arrives.
Nancy-1 says, "Hi Dave!"
DaveW-1 says, "hi nancy"
DaveW-1 says, "hows it going?"
Nancy-1 says, "Great!"
Nancy-1 says, "How are you?"
DaveW-1 says, "disappointed by our lack of snow so far this year" DaveW-1
says, "got our first little bit today" Nancy-1 says, "I'm happy we aren't
getting very much this year." DaveW-1 says, "we got less than an inch here
today" DaveW-1 says, "you couldn't have got much more excitement from the
end of the world" Nancy-1 says, "LOL"
Nancy-1 says, "We got about 2 inches today." Nancy-1 says, "It's *very*
cold here, too." DaveW-1 says, "its in the teens here"
Nancy-1 says, "It's been below zero here." kokhmmm has arrived.
kokhmmm says, "Hi Nancy, Greg, and Dave" john-r arrives.
john-r says, "evening"
kokhmmm says, "Hi, John"
john-r says, "hi Peter"
Nancy-1 says, "Hi Peter and John."
john-r says, "Hi Nancy"
Greg-1 says, "Oh! There's Peter! I was just wondering if your note meant
that you wouldn't be here tonight." kokhmmm says, "I'm here, sort of"
Greg-1 says, "Peter it says here than the attachment was removed from the
email I received." Greg-1 says, "So if you attached an agenda apparently it
didn't make it." Greg-1 says, "Well, we'll settle for however much of you
as we can get tonight. :)" garygray has arrived.
Scottyg-1 has arrived.
kokhmmm says, "No, no attaced agenda. And I swtill Can't get into the
Leaders page" Greg-1 says, "Sorry to hear that you're not feeling well,
too!" Greg-1 says, "Which leaders page can't you get to? None of it?"
garygray says, "Hi Everyone1"
Nancy-1 says, "Hi Gary and Scotty."
john-r says, "Hi Gary and Scotty and Greg" kokhmmm says, "My BP has been
all over the place from 190/114 to 96/63" john-r says, "Hi Dave"
kokhmmm says, "Right now 150/56"
Michael-1 arrives.
kokhmmm says, "So, I'm feeling a bit disembodies" Michael-1 says, "woot"
kokhmmm says, "Hi, Michael"
garygray says, "I can somewhat see why, Peter!" john-r says, "Hi Michael"
Michael-1 says, "hi guys... 'sup?"
kokhmmm says, "Agendaa: short reports; filling the board vacancy" garygray
says, "Sounds Good to me!"
Nancy-1 says, "I'm going to jump the gun. I have sinusitus.....This week we
had five renews and two new memberships." Nancy-1 says, "Sorry, about that,
guys!" Greg-1 says, "Hey, 5 renews and 2 new members is good news! :)"
Scottyg-1 says, "Peter, can you access
http://www.moonsociety.org/private/leaders/ ?" garygray says, "That's
great, Nancy!"
kokhmmm says, "No, Scotty"
Greg-1 says, "Peter, are you using username kokhmmm or username Peter
Kokh?" kokhmmm says, "Won't accept my usual username, password combo"
kokhmmm says, "Greg, I don't know what password is associated with username
Peter Kokh" Greg-1 says, "Not that it matters. It doesn't show a username
at all!" Greg-1 says, "Ack!"
kokhmmm says, "My aura has dissappeared!" Greg-1 says, "Peter, whisper a
password to me. " Greg-1 says, "Just "whisper "password" to Greg-1"" Greg-1
says, "The text of the message needs to be in quotes but ignore all the
other quotes" DaveW-1 is back...had to talk a little monkey back into her
bed Greg-1 says, "You're not talking about the Mrs., are you, Dave?"
kokhmmm says, "Greg, sent it via email" Greg-1 says, "Peter, OK."
Scottyg-1 says, "Greg, since Peter is an admin his team Director username
and password won't show in the account data." Scottyg-1 says, "His team
director admin username is kokhmmm" kokhmmm says, "so is my WSD username
kokhmmm" Scottyg-1 says, "I think WSD usernames are separate from Team
Director, but access to the leaders area is controlled bu Team Director."
Greg-1 says, "Scotty, yeah."
kokhmmm says, "I still have TeamDir access and I use same username/password
combo in TeamDir as I do in WSD" Greg-1 says, "Peter, I just tested it and
it's working. I can sign on as you at
http://www.moonsociety.org/private/leaders/" kokhmmm says, "But it won't
let me into the Leaders page" Greg-1 says, "That was after I updated your
password." Greg-1 says, "See the note I just sent." kokhmmm says, "Yes, now
I can get in also. What happened?" Greg-1 says, "I don't know. I reset your
password, which would have caused Team Director to update all the teams you
are a member of." Greg-1 says, "Anyhow, THAT's good news! At least we don't
have the silly situation where the president of the joint can get to the
most important tool he has!" kokhmmm says, "So next time, there *will be* a
new agenda!" Greg-1 says, "Note that, as Scotty said, you are an
'administrative user' so in Team Director your username and password are
maintained under USER ADMINISTRATION instead of the regular membership
update part." dcarson arrives.
kokhmmm says, "Greg, will you chair the meeting?" Greg-1 says, "Sure!"
Greg-1 says, "Let's see... we were just waiting for Dana to arrive so we
can get started now! :)" dcarson says, "sorry"
kokhmmm says, "Hi Dana!"
Greg-1 says, "Just yankin' yer chain, Dana. :)" Greg-1 says, "Is our
recorder going yet?" dcarson says, "dozed a bit after dinner" Greg-1
doesn't know how to use the bally thing. kokhmmm says, "start
recorder1/19/2005" Greg-1 says, "Apparently Peter doesn't either. :)"
Greg-1 says, "That's comforting!"
kokhmmm says, "start recorder 1/19/2005" dcarson says, "its already running"
kokhmmm says, "no wonder!"
Greg-1 says, "Thanks, Dana."
Greg-1 says, "Erm... is it still running from last time? Should we stop and
restart it?" kokhmmm says, "Dana, I doze off after meals also." Greg-1
says, "Yes, the nap is an important part of a great dinner!" kokhmmm says,
"Greg, yes"
dcarson says, "ok i'll restart it"
garygray says, "Greg, I think we should!"

-- End log: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 9:23:49 pm ASI Meeting Server time--