-- Start log: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 9:15:47 pm ASI Meeting Server time --
lesausl says, "I haven't seenm the page. i did get the memo RE: Phil Crume.
. . " pjbanyai says, "I have sorted it out as Council Leaders, Members, and
Advisors." Lunadyne says, "What's the address for that again?" pjbanyai
says, "http://www.moonsociety.org/private/leaders/" dcarson says, "
http://www.moonsociety.org/private/leaders/" alanzaldua has arrived.
Lunadyne says, "Sure, alphabetical... lol." Lunadyne says, "For the record,
membership #s stand at 149, up a few from last time." pjbanyai says,
"Advisors are on the Mailing List, Members are active members, and Leaders
are officers and directors." alanzaldua says, "Hi everybody!" pjbanyai
says, "HI Al" bnault says, "hi al!" Chard-1 waves. alanzaldua says, "Are we
on our first agenda item still?" Lunadyne says, "Yup. We got a late start."
alanzaldua says, "What's the issue?" Lunadyne says, "149 members. How did
it happen?" Lunadyne says, "Just kidding. Next up is treasury. Dana?"
dcarson says, "still entering data" Lunadyne says, "Any luck hunting for a
CPA?" dcarson says, "still have money in the bank" dcarson says, "not
trying too hard until I get the data to show them" Chard-1 says, "I'm in a
Masters level finance and accounting course... >> my instructor is a CPA
and a majority of the other students are finance majors" Chard-1 says, "I
could easily ask a question or two" dcarson says, "ask around and see what
they'd charge a nonprofit" Chard-1 says, "rgr that" Lunadyne says,
"Alright. Next up is MMM. Peter's out at the cabin. Next edition should be
out Fri or Sat." Lunadyne says, "Jason, what we're looking for is a CPA
familiar with non-profits who can get our 990-Ns straightened out."
alanzaldua says, "If I remember correctly, these were supposed to be filed
in years past - correct?" dcarson says, "yes, we niver got a notice from
the IRS as far as I know" Chard-1 says, "ok" dcarson says, "so they didn't
get filed the last 2 years, did file this year" alanzaldua says, "good
question." Lunadyne says, "Right. We have our current year filed, but need
to get some of the past years backfilled. Apparently there is some
methodology that CPAs can use to get things straightened out. Apparently a
lot of orgs. have this issue, so it's not unique to us." dcarson says,
"they only started requiring it for small orgs 3-4 years " dcarson says,
"and like I said no notice which it did say they would send" dcarson says,
"so I imagine lots are in this position" Lunadyne says, "Yup." Chard-1
says, "Sure - no problem, will ask and report back" dcarson says, "thanks"
Lunadyne says, "Once we get the 990-Ns and audits strightened out, next
step is to get PayPal straightened out. They're profiting from this
situation, as any org. that can't show its status will have its monies put
in a suspense account. Paypal gets the interest on those." dcarson says,
"paypal really needs to get treated as a bank" alanzaldua says, "amen."
Lunadyne says, "totally." Chard-1 says, "btw - I really liked the cover of
the latest MMM - props to the layout and content... good stuff" Lunadyne
says, "Our first guest edited issue is October. This corresponds with World
Space Week and Sputnik. Any other things we should try to get content for?"
pjbanyai says, "I placed a copy of the Panel on the Nonprofit Sector's
principles for Good Governance and Ethical Practices at
http://www.moonsociety.org/private/leaders/pubs/." Chard-1 says, "the rough
draft I sent you will be revised so that it's more "newsletter" friendly -
less reportish..." alanzaldua says, "Shouldn't we have something about
Planetary Resource, Inc. and also the Space X Dragon capsule (hopefully)
connecting to ISS? " Lunadyne says, "Paul, I downloaded those to my laptop
and will look those over." dcarson says, "wasn't the firstchinese manned
launch in october?" dcarson says, "yes, The program put the first Chinese
citizen, Yang Liwei, into orbit on 15 October 2003." Lunadyne says, "In my
view, the Planetary Resources announcement is interesting but much less
than everyone's making it out to be." alanzaldua says, "I was thinking
about maybe an editorial about the significance of PR, Space X, Bigelow, V.
Galactic, etc. " pjbanyai says, "There is also a workbook/checklist which I
have not gotten yet (need to setup an acount)." Lunadyne says, "Really what
they're announcing is their telescopes being for sale. I'm not convinced
there's much of a market for selling telescopes. I think the better play is
data subscriptions." dcarson says, "not a public company and deep pockets,
they can take a long term view if they want" dcarson says, "so that makes
me hopeful" alanzaldua says, "Those PR folks don't shoot blanks. Very deep
pockets. Long view. Incorporating the idea of failure as part of the
process. They haven't totally shown their hand I don't think. " Chard-1
says, "We should write an article blasting NASA about being able to create
a budget and stick to it... the only reason they're not being properly
funded is because they can't seem to play within their budget... "according
to Pamela Gay.. Phd" of the conf I attended" Lunadyne says, "How is
Starstryder?" dcarson says, "nasa does seem to havr a bad habit of think
that any major project can be turned into a new apollo with the nasa budget
going up several fold" Lunadyne says, "Sorry, that's Pamela's blogging
name." dcarson says, "I think proposing a good budget is better than
blasting them however" Chard-1 says, "well - I'm sure it could be worded
properly" Lunadyne says, "part of the issue is that NASA leadership thinks
that what worked in the past will work in the future. Apollo inspired the
baby boomers, so another Apollo will inspire their kids. It's simplistic
thinking that doesn't reflect current realities." pjbanyai says, "NASA
usually aims for innovation instead of production. Instead of using
existing materials they will spend millions trying to find something new
before finally useing the existing materials and actually getting down to
actually making something." Lunadyne says, "I think the way to blast NASA
is to ignore them. Focus on the private sector, focus on the foundations,
focus on the universities, and show that space exists outside of NASA."
alanzaldua says, "Agreed!!!" dcarson says, "yeah, stick with the positive"
Lunadyne says, "The biggest disappointment I had with Planetary Resources'
announcement was that they already had a contract with NASA." Lunadyne
says, "If they were selling data subscriptions from their telescopes, they
could say that NASA was a customer." Lunadyne says, "Some have suggested we
look to NASA SBIR funding for our science projects. I'd rather we put them
together independent of NASA. That makes a much, much stronger statement."
Chard-1 nods. lesausl says, "Given how intertwined NASA and the commercials
are, it is not going to be an 'either/or' about how we pursue future
porojects. We (Moon Society) should focus on prodding BOTH to return to the
Moon." alanzaldua says, "Space X also has contracts with NASA, but
reportedly can manage without them. Why not contract with NASA if you can
save the taxpayers money by doing something more cheaply than NASA can do
it through it usual methods?" Lunadyne says, "If NASA is a customer, okay.
If they're a partner...?" Lunadyne says, "For example, when we're done with
the lava tube project I'd be happy to have TMS sell NASA copies of the
report." alanzaldua says, "Exactly. A customer OK. A partner calling the
shots not OK." Lunadyne says, "Actually, I'd probably put the report on
Kindle so anyone could buy a copy." dcarson says, "one of the risks of a
big customer" Lunadyne says, "Oh yeah. Financial analysts know to look for
customer concentration in the revenues." lesausl says, "Lava tube project?
Did I miss soemthing here? " Chard-1 says, "using Lava tubes to live in...
etc" Lunadyne says, "We've got two science projects that we have seed money
for. One is robotic methods for lunar lava tube exploration." Chard-1 says,
".. yes - we had a competition on that I do believe" Lunadyne says, "The
other is for a Solar sail comm sat for the Moon." lesausl says, "Lava tube
PROJECT. we have a specific project concedrning lava tubes? I kniow we were
trying to get soemthing going about a robotic contest. . . Is that tit?"
Lunadyne says, "So we've got, IIRC, about $3K for each project." alanzaldua
says, "Where are these competitions being set up? (Sorry, I missed the
earlier explanation.)" Lunadyne says, "There would be robots involved."
Lunadyne says, "I've been contacted by a member who is interested in doing
some grant writing stuff." Lunadyne says, "So we should put together a team
to identify potential grants to apply for." pjbanyai says, "Has eveyone
heard of CISPA? It is a bill which has passed in the house. It hides the
problems of SOPA and PIPA using tricky wording which makes it seem that the
bill is simply about Cyber Security threats such as viruses and hackers. In
exchange for cyber threat information from the government, websites must
grant the government full access to everyones data." Chard-1 grins... I
like that idea Lunadyne says, "I'm willing to turn over TMS data upon
presentation of a valid warrant. It probably doesn't matter, as it is the
IT guys who control the data." pjbanyai says, "The bill bypasses all
Private security laws." Chard-1 says, "granted it would probably cause
another blackout of the internet... and my youtubedoubler site would go by
the wayside again" lesausl says, "There is a lesson here.. . Would this
orgsanozation survive/thrive off the internet?" dcarson says, "I'd say no,
we are too spread out" Lunadyne says, "It would be difficult, but it could
be done. It would require old-school techniques." Chard-1 says, "Russia
says it's worse than SOPA" Lunadyne says, "Phone trees. Ads in science and
sci-fi magazines. Mailing lists." lesausl says, "Bingo! We may wnat to see
about a 'Plan B' in case the governemnt succeeds in its attempts to control
media." Lunadyne says, "I'm not too worried about it. We still have MMM."
dcarson says, "should try to make sure we keep snail mail addresses up to
date" dcarson says, "one good thing about a physical election mailing"
Lunadyne says, "I do worry about the Post Office, though." pjbanyai says,
"There is still UPS, Fed Ex and a few others." Lunadyne says, "More
expensive, though." Lunadyne says, "Frankly, if the government wants our
info, they already got it from the server host without our knowledge."
lesausl says, "The single best form of adverttisement is word of mouth.
'Cellular advertising' is one iof the things they call it these days."
Lunadyne says, "That's part of why we need to get our members doing stuff
as TMS that people will talk about." Lunadyne says, "The science projects
are part of that." lesausl says, "The idea of 'Everyone bring one'
expresses it well. What can TMS do for members who bring new mebers in? Do
we have any type of reward progression in place?" pjbanyai says, "Currently
they need a warrent to obtain access from the Service Provider." alanzaldua
says, "Are we really worried about the government stealing our "secrets"?"
dcarson says, "we've discussed thigs like a extra month to membership for a
referal but never implemented it" dcarson says, "we have new member rewards
but referal ones would be good" Lunadyne says, "Let's brainstorm about that
for a bit." Lunadyne says, "We don't really have any member swag, do we?"
pjbanyai says, "My sister just entered a Green Gallery Show which excepts
anything to do with the environment. According to the rules we could have
even entered the Solar Power Beaming Model." lesausl says, "Perhaps we
could be bolder about it. Bring in five members, get a free year's
embership after they re-up. Something like that." dcarson says, "For new
members: " dcarson says, "The Artemis Project Reference Mission poster (a
$9.95 value)" dcarson says, "A Map of the Moon's Nearside showing the
Apollo and Luna Landing Sites." dcarson says, "A copy of Andrew Chaikin's A
Man on the Moon, as long as our supply lasts " lesausl says, "I'm nor
worried about our 'secrets'. We don't do anythibng that would worry Uncle
Sam. What i worry about is losing touvh because we get squeezed off the
internet." dcarson says, "and people can buy shirts off cafe press"
Lunadyne says, "Maybe we offer a shirt if they bring in say three new
members." Lunadyne says, "Or a nice polo shirt if they bring in 10."
lesausl says, "How 'bout a gift-shirt lottery. Randomly select a memeber to
receive a T-shirt of their choice . Require three consecutive uyears of
membership to qulaify. . ." dcarson says, "
http://www.cafepress.com/moonsociety.9915981#" alanzaldua says, "How can we
get younger people in?" lesausl says, "Haunt the colleges!" pjbanyai says,
"The maps of the Moon are fairly old, the poster is about a dead project,
and currently we do not know if we will actually be able to regain control
of the Cafepress shop." lesausl says, "We need a very viszible presence as
an organization in colleges." Lunadyne says, "Independent chapters, or SEDS
chapters focused on Lunar stuff?" alanzaldua says, "I agree that colleges
are key. But so far, it's been tough to get college folks involved in one
of my local organizations. We need a new angle. Something splashy. "
lesausl says, "Younger people will join when they see vibrancy. we do kt
have that right now. We are disappearing form the maop and have no chapter
presence ouitside of St. Louis and Phoenix. Akll others are affiliatesd out
of exuistance." Lunadyne says, "It's tough to get the kids involved in
anything. They'll associate, but not join." alanzaldua says, "Let us ponder
this and come up with a solution. Otherwise we will die out... literally. "
pjbanyai says, "I was thinking that we may want to see about setting up MMO
guilds so people can look into what this Moon Miners or Moon Society Guild
they occasionly see is all about." dcarson says, "I think we should be able
to do something with the lava tube project and this
http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc?id=966" Lunadyne says, "It's
true for all organizations." dcarson says, "that hits the high school
level" alanzaldua says, "Yeah. Lava tubes sound mysterious. Maybe something
involving those. " Chard-1 says, "maybe offer memberships that are very
inexpensive - and give only electronic access - and discounts to
MoonSociety member only available items/mercha" dcarson says, "we ahve a
student membership at $20 instead of $35" Lunadyne says, "One thing NSS
always talks about is one-year free membership for recent SEDS graduates."
dcarson says, "even lower for high school would be a possible" lesausl
says, "What is the true cost of membership? What does it actually cost us
to have a persaon on the membership roll?" alanzaldua says, "Look what
magazines do. They offer a ridiculously low price at first just to hook
you. " Lunadyne says, "I'm in favor of like a $10 pre-college membership
level. e-newsletter only." dcarson says, "magazines make the money off ads,
rule of thumb is spend as much as a subscription costs to get a subscriber"
Chard-1 says, "I wonder if we could get some states to offer Vanity License
plates" Lunadyne says, "Righteous." pjbanyai says, "The National Geographic
Society is one of the oldest non-profits in America and its membership is
directly linked to its magazine." Lunadyne says, "I'm not sure we have a
good idea what it costs to have a member. Should be pretty minimal."
Lunadyne says, "Every garage sale has its obligatory box of Nat Geos."
lesausl says, "Cleverly worded bumper stickers are my favorite. . ."
alanzaldua says, "Would it hurt us financially to offer pre-college
memberships for $10?" dcarson says, "electronis subscription, $3 a year,
paper election mailing about $1, credcard fees 10% or so, maybe another $1
misc" Chard-1 says, "I pursued the stamp idea.. but it ran into some
roadblocks iirc" dcarson says, "plus the new member mailing costs for the
poster and book and such, thats about $5-6 I think" Lunadyne says, "Is that
the computer generated stamps with custom background images?" Chard-1 says,
"promoted via the post office" dcarson says, "stamp, paper, envelope"
dcarson says, "no custom stamp, those things are expensive" Chard-1 says,
"mhm" Lunadyne says, "Why would they cost more than the regular forever
stamp?" dcarson says, "I think a custom first class stamp is about 4 times
the cost" Lunadyne says, "What kind of incentive is that?" dcarson says,
"you can get custm stamps with the image of your choice" alanzaldua says,
"old NASA hero images are not going to do the job. We need something new
and edgy if possible. " Lunadyne says, "Mighty pricy personalisation."
dcarson says, "the MM paper mailig has a postal permit, that plus printing
is about $1 an issue" dcarson says, "electronic only no new member mailing
we would break even plus at around $10 I think" lesausl says, "I would like
tio see a comprehensive piece in the MMM about what it costs to sustain a
member. " lesausl says, "We only have about 15 minutes to go. . . "
Lunadyne says, "For the kids I'd keep it to just MMM. I may be able to have
us offer a print-out craftwork Moon globe." dcarson says, "and this doesn't
count things like per member cost for ISDC suite, website registration etc"
dcarson says, "semirelated" dcarson says, "Stanley Schmidt Wins 2012
Heinlein Award:" dcarson says, "Science Fiction editor and author Stanley
Schmidt is the 2012 winner of the" dcarson says, "Robert A. Heinlein Award.
The award is bestowed for outstanding published" dcarson says, "works in
science fiction and technical writings that inspire the human" dcarson
says, "exploration of space. The physical form of the Robert A. Heinlein
Award" dcarson says, "consists of a 3.5 avoirdupois ounce sterling silver
medallion bearing the" dcarson says, "image of Robert A. Heinlein as
depicted by artist Arlin Robbins. The" dcarson says, "medallion is matched
with a red-white-blue lanyard. In addition, the winner" dcarson says,
"receives two lapel pins for use when a large medallion is impractical, and
a" dcarson says, "certificate plaque designating the award suitable for
home or office wall" dcarson says, "display." dcarson says, "This year for
the first time the award will be presented on Friday, May 25," dcarson
says, "2012 at opening ceremonies during Balticon 46, the Maryland Regional
Science" dcarson says, "Fiction Convention. The award will be presented by
Heinlein Committee Chair" dcarson says, "Dr. Yoji Kondo to Ian Randal
Strock accepting for Stanley Schmidt. " alanzaldua says, "Guys, sorry but
I'm at a family function, and I" Lunadyne says, "Who is Stanley Schmidt,
and why do we have per member cost for ISDC suite?" alanzaldua says, "Oops.
I was saying I'm going to have to leave. " Lunadyne says, "we're close to
wrapping up, so no prob Al." pjbanyai says, "Next week is our next Town
Hall Meeting. I am going to send the reminders and invitations about it
after the meeting. We could bring these questions up next time." alanzaldua
says, "Thanks. "See" you next time, guys. " alanzaldua says, "@quit"
lesausl says, "G'Nite Al!" alanzaldua has disconnected. Chard-1 says, "what
about some custom Moon bracelets.. like the livestrong.. etc" Chard-1 says,
"..for sale of course" Lunadyne says, "Could that be done through
CafePress?" Chard-1 says, "maybe?" Lunadyne says, "I don't want us sinking
a lot of capital into physical stock. It's a good way to lose money."
dcarson says, "cafe press has a list of all the stuff you can sell, don't
know if that sort of thing is on it" Chard-1 says, "i was thinking on a ..
order basis" pjbanyai says, "I personally think we should sell some Moon
Beer:)" Chard-1 gives a thumbs up Lunadyne says, "I am definitely in favor
of that. We should come up with a reccipe for homebrewers." dcarson says,
"Moonshot Beer went out of business" dcarson says, "they mad caffinated
beer and caffinated alcohol was banned after some incidents" Lunadyne says,
"dumbass kids spoiling it for the rest of us." lesausl says, "'Moonwalker
Beer' " Lunadyne says, "Special 'Lunar' ingredients." Chard-1 says, "would
have to be a mix your own" lesausl says, ". . .to be eaten with Moon
cheese." The housekeeper arrives to cart alanzaldua off to bed. pjbanyai
says, "Blue Moon Beer is still in business. I even saw a commercial for it
the other day." Lunadyne says, "I did have Blue Moon beer at the ISDC
hospitality party." Chard-1 says, "they sell caffeinated beer here"
Lunadyne says, "there's also a Lunar Ale from Brooklyn Brewery." lesausl
says, "Caffeinated beer? Interesting concept. Any fatalities?" Chard-1
says, "i'm sure" Lunadyne says, "Think so." dcarson says, "it was a much
stronger drink that had the incidents but they banned all caffinated
drinks" lesausl says, "But I bet they can still export it!" pjbanyai says,
"There is a website which sells fictional and historical drinks(I can't
remember its name right now). I know they have Romulan Ale." dcarson says,
"isiots can still make a red bull and vodka of course themselves" Lunadyne
says, "I can remember when they first started mixing vodka and Red Bull in
bars. Foul mix." Chard-1 says, "that's the only way I can drink Red Bull
without it giving me a stomach ache" Lunadyne says, "can't stand the stuff.
Some of the folks at the bank were addicted to it." lesausl says, "I think
I now know how the Russians were able to raise the payload capability for
their Soyuz rocket. . ." Lunadyne says, "I do like the idea of a Moon beer
homebrew recipe." pjbanyai says, "Should be based on how beer might
actually be made on the Moon." Lunadyne says, "Need a centrifuge for the
1/6th gee?" Chard-1 says, "
http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/looflirpa/beer.shtml" lesausl says, "You
know, they will have top find a use for all that CO2 astronauts will exhale
on the moon. . . " Lunadyne says, "I did have a glow-in-the-dark Moon
liquer at the hospitality party." Lunadyne says, "Can't remember the name."
dcarson says, "since hops are a specilized crop I'd expect beer to be a
late addition" dcarson says, "some sort of moonshine made from whatever
ferments and si scrap would happen much sooner" lesausl says, "I have
10pm." Lunadyne says, "Agreed. A vacuum still might be hard for management
to find on the Moon." pjbanyai says, "Wouldn't that be earthshine?" dcarson
says, "thats something for the suite, earthshine" Lunadyne says, "I also
have 10pm. Town Hall next week. Any critical points?" dcarson says, "move
we adjourn" Lunadyne says, "Second?" lesausl says, "I second" Lunadyne
says, "So moved. In favor?" dcarson says, "aye" Chard-1 says, "aye"
pjbanyai says, "Aye" lesausl says, "Aye" Lunadyne says, "Aye" Lunadyne
says, "Adjourned." lesausl says, "Later folks. I suddenly feel very
thirsty. . .!" Lunadyne says, "Good discussion, everyone." Lunadyne says,
"Thanks." lesausl says, "G'Nite Ken!" dcarson says, "gnight" lesausl has
disconnected. pjbanyai says, "Gnight" 
-- End log: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 11:02:54 pm ASI Meeting Server time --