-- Start log: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:03:47 pm ASI Meeting Server time-- 
Lunadyne says, "Welcome to this edition of The Moon Society's leadership
meeting." Lunadyne says, "Looking at our current membership we are at 153,
down 1 from yesterday (bummer)." Lunadyne says, "This does not include the
free ISDC memberships." Lunadyne says, "Any questions?" pjbanyai says, "I
believe Philip Crume's memberships expired." Scottyg has arrived. Scottyg
says, "Hi all!" pjbanyai says, "Hi Scotty" bnault says, "howdy!" Scottyg
says, "Ken, I got the electronics for the Power Beaming Demo working."
Lunadyne says, "Related, but not directly, our Facebook likes continue to
climb, standing at 3,665 'Likes', and closing in on NSS's 4,409 and leaving
Mars Society's 763 in the dust." kokhmmm has arrived. Scottyg says, "Now
I'll be doing what mechanical repairs I can." Lunadyne says, "Excellent
Scotty! We're going to have a lot of interesting demos at Moon Day. Some
other local members should be showing up as well." kokhmmm says, "Hi James
(lapsed), Paul, Bryce, Dana, Ben, Ken, Scotty" bnault says, "great news
Scotty! Thanks" Scottyg says, "So be sure we have power available at the
Museum." Lunadyne says, "I have us down for power, a rectangular, and a
circular table." kokhmmm says, "I take it that the spb demo will be on hand
and working" Lunadyne says, "Yup" Scottyg says, "Yes indeed Peter." kokhmmm
says, "Great news" kokhmmm says, "Scotty, was that little piece I sent you
what was lacking?" Scottyg says, "I have it sitting on the floor in my
office working even as we speak." Lunadyne says, "I've been working on a
membership brochure to hand out at thhe table, but don't think I'll have
time to finish." Scottyg says, "Peter, I started over on the LED's for it.
The original version wasn't very suitable for display." pjbanyai says, "Did
Philip get a reminder about his membership expiring. Does anyone know if he
still plans on running for the board?" Scottyg says, "Now the receiving
antenna has one LED on each corner that light up when power is being
transmitted. And you can put your hand in the path and see them dim."
kokhmmm says, "I just sent PHil a reminder tonight. Could not get him on
the phone. Need to talk to Alan also." kokhmmm says, "Very good, Scotty"
lesausl has disconnected. pjbanyai says, "Also, is Ben still getting the
election emails? If they are being redirected to me, we don't seem to have
any digital votes yet." Lunadyne says, "This could be the year Moon Day
breaks out and makes it big. We've been much more aggressive in our
advertising." alanzaldua has arrived. Lunadyne says, "I'd like to see The
Moon Society taking point in expanding it to other cities over the next
year." bnault says, "I am not getting any emails, no." dcarson says, "you
can access them in help director" kokhmmm says, "Hi Al" alanzaldua says,
"Hi everybody!" dcarson says, "which dorsn't show any either" dcarson says,
"we might have a help director problem" kokhmmm says, "I will put out a
reminder to all members about the elections. Many delay." Scottyg says, "I
have one or two mail-ins." Lunadyne says, "Have we gotten any mail ballots
either?" kokhmmm says, "How many votes have come in by email?" bnault says,
"I think I even forgot to vote..!" Scottyg says, "See above." Lunadyne
says, "As long as they voted for me..." kokhmmm says, "What is the exact
email address so that I put it correctly in the reminder letter?" The
housekeeper arrives to cart lesausl off to bed. dcarson says, "
elections@moonsociety.org" bnault says, "sometimes following a conversation
on MOO can be confusing..." pjbanyai says, "I am sure that Helpdir stopped
working a long time ago. Those email addresses are now being manually
redirected by Dana instead of being linked to helpdir." kokhmmm says, "Okay
- starting to rain (we need it desperately0 have to close a lot of windows
- brb" dcarson says, "will double check on how it is set after the meeting"
Lunadyne says, "Yes Ben, it can. Right now we're on the Membership agenda
item talking about elections." Lunadyne says, "If nothing else on
memberships, let's move on to the Secretary's Report." Lunadyne says, "I'll
note I will have an article on Moon Day for the August MMM." Lunadyne says,
"Oops, Peter is AFK. How about the Treasury Report?" dcarson says, "much of
the data is entered, need to get together with Scotty with a few questions"
dcarson says, "and Scotty needs to mail me some statements I'm missing"
Lunadyne says, "Any significant changes in bank balance?" dcarson says,
"emailed the CPA, waiting to here back what the fees are for filling the
missing 990Ns, they say we don't really need to since we filed 09 and 11"
Lunadyne says, "Oh, and I need reimbursement for the Moon Day Lunar Sample
Bags. " dcarson says, "no major change in funds" dcarson says, "email the
amount and a scan of the recepiet" dcarson says, "I need to reimburse me
for our SSL cert also, thats $85" kokhmmm says, "I am back" dcarson says,
"I either missed or the spam filter at earlier notice so when it came the
other week I needed to pay it quickly" dcarson says, "so can I get approval
for the reimbursement?" Lunadyne says, "I so move." kokhmmm says, "second"
bnault says, "I move that we approve Dana's disbursement for the SSL cert."
pjbanyai says, "aye" bnault says, "aye" alanzaldua says, "aye" kokhmmm
says, "aye" pjbanyai says, "Would it be possible to add a credit card or
link a bank account to the Amazon account?" dcarson says, "I'd have to
look" Lunadyne says, "aye" alanzaldua says, "Dana did you mean abt 12 lines
ago that we don't have to turn in the missing 990Ns after all. " Lunadyne
says, "Dana, just forwarded the invoice." dcarson says, "thanks" dcarson
says, "you are supposed to file every year, if you don't file for 3 your
nonprofit atatus goes away" dcarson says, "we only missed 2" pjbanyai says,
"I think one of the requirements for their non-profit status was a bank
statement or some other bank info." alanzaldua says, "so we are good on
this score?" dcarson says, "so we are OK even with ones missing, should
file to look fully complient but won't lose status if we don't" Scottyg
says, "Alan, there seems to some difference of opinion on that point. The
IRS rules would seem to allow us to skip one or two years. However, I have
a notice from the IRS that we haven't filed for 2010 and the only response
they provide for is to send a filing receipt for the missing return."
dcarson says, "I told the CPA that and I'm waiting to here what the fees
are" Lunadyne says, "I can" Lunadyne says, "I can't wait to get this
cleared up." dcarson says, "yeah" Scottyg says, "Dana, you need to put a
little pressure on about this. We are required to respond to the IRS by the
25th. (One week from now.)" Lunadyne says, "What is the specific response
requireD?" Strangelv-2 says, "eep" dcarson says, "will email again tonight"
Lunadyne says, "Please keep me in the loop on this." dcarson says, "will
do" Lunadyne says, "Paul, where do we stand on the non-profit
best-practices stuff?" Scottyg says, "Ken, in typical government fashion,
the instructions are impossible to follow. It says: "If you are required to
file Form 990-N, visit www.irs.gov/990filing. There is no paper form. You
must also complete the Response form starting on page 3 and fax it to us at
1-801-620-3253." Scottyg says, "But you can't file a prior year form
online." Lunadyne says, "Right Scotty, IIRC, only a CPA can do that."
Strangelv-2 facepalms Scottyg says, "On the referenced "Response form", if
you check "I already filed my Form 990-N....and I'm enclosing a signed and
dated copy of the return (or electronic filing acknowledgement) as
verification."" Scottyg says, "The you provide some information and a copy
of the electronic filing acknowledgement." Scottyg says, "So what I need is
a copy of the electronic filing acknowledgement." Scottyg says, "There is
no provision to answer "I haven't filed the return."" dcarson says, "which
we don't have for that yer since I din't file since I didn't get the
reminder the IRS was supposed ot send" Lunadyne says, "Joy." Scottyg says,
"No, but we need to get that from the CPA when he files it." dcarson says,
"will add that to the email" Lunadyne says, "Let's see if we can get a CPA
response by Friday." Lunadyne says, "Is Peter still AFK?" Lunadyne says, "I
guess so." Lunadyne says, "Something I want to talk about for a bit is the
Mars Curiosity landing." Scottyg says, "I have a point of order...."
Lunadyne says, "What's up, Scotty?" Scottyg says, "Go ahead Ken. Me next."
Lunadyne says, "Okay, it's going to land before our next meeting." bnault
says, "not really" bnault says, "our next meeting is Aug 1" bnault says,
"it lands Aug 5" Lunadyne says, "Oops, right, misread the calendar."
kokhmmm says, "And we all hope it will be landing safely and operate up to
expectation." pjbanyai says, "The best Practice pdfs are located at
http://www.moonsociety.org/private/leaders/pubs/ When everyone has read
them we simply update that requirement saying that we have all read them.
The two major requirements for Guidestar are (1)a Chairman of the Board and
(2) information on at least one official program for Donors with a
projected budget for how much the program costs us and the nccs tax code
category." Lunadyne says, "Who here thinks it will land successfully?"
kokhmmm says, "This is the trickiest landing ever attempted by any probe."
Strangelv-2 says, "If we're going to prapare something in advance, we
should prepare statements for both cases" bnault says, "i'm optimistic, but
it is really on the edge..." kokhmmm says, "The hisotic success rate for
Mars missions is near 50%" Strangelv-2 says, "No mars landing is a sure
thing for us ye" kokhmmm says, "We need an encouraging success right now!
Or we will lose the public." pjbanyai says, "Currently only Ken and myself
have Guidestar accounts." bnault says, "the rate for Russian missions
probably drags the overall rate down quite a bit - we have done a much
better job" dcarson says, "too little atmosphere to make parachutes work
well, too much to make rockets work well" alanzaldua says, "ditto. "
Lunadyne says, "I give it less than 50%. The point is that IF the mission
fails, we are likely to see a strong shift in interest back towards the
Moon as a place we can rack up successes." alanzaldua says, "Mmmmm. "
Strangelv-2 says, "It would be highly beneficial for this tor work. We need
a new solution for Mars that scales. What about thrust-based landings that
work well in Earth's atmosphere?" Strangelv-2 hmms. bnault says, "I'm all
for interest in the Moon but I sure hope the lander succeeds!" kokhmmm
says, "Personally, I hate to gain attention for the Moon through a failure
on Mars. So I am rooting for a total success" alanzaldua says, "Agree. "
Strangelv-2 says, "A news release about another failed landing on Mars
would not be the place to actively try to steer attention. If we came up
with something useful to say it could imprlove our visibility, though"
Lunadyne says, "I'm not hoping for failure. However, I believe the
methodology is so risk-laden that there is a less than 50% chance for
success." dcarson says, "yeah, preparing both statements is a good idea"
alanzaldua says, "yes. " bnault says, "these guys have done their homework,
the method looks crazy but it is based on sound research. I say more like
85% success." Strangelv-2 says, "Perhaps mention that out track record for
MArs landings shows that we still have a lot to learn, and it would be
valuble to pay attention to more places than just Mars as we get up to
speed. Places with differenrt constraits that may prove far easier to
solve" pjbanyai says, "I read somewhere that even if Cuiosity lands that
NASA may only have a skeleton crew working with it because of budget cuts.
They may not be able to get as much out of it as they had hoped and might
run it on standby for long stretches." Strangelv-2 says, "or is that too
blunt for the first release?" Lunadyne says, "I'm just picturing Neil
Armstrong trying to handle that Moon lander mock-up." Strangelv-2 says,
"yuck" bnault says, "but i am all for being prepared so, yes, prepare 2
releases" Strangelv-2 says, "NASA really needs to hand over some of its
legacy missions to other organizations that can be trusted to care for
them" alanzaldua says, "I would say something like how Mars development
fits in a larger context with cis-lunar infrasturcture, etc.
cllunarapproach" Lunadyne says, "I'm not just talking about the immediate
aftermath (IF it fails), where I agree it would be tasteless to try to sell
the Moon. But over the longer term the public is likely to focus more on
the Moon, which is already happening, and we have to be ready to ride
that." Strangelv-2 says, "Cislunar-Martian trade?" kokhmmm says, "I hacew
always said that neithe lunar or Martian settlement can thrive without
mutual trade." dcarson says, "martian moons to Luna is very low deltaV"
Chard arrives in cloud of smoke. kokhmmm says, "And vice versa" Chard says,
"here" alanzaldua says, "Yes, cis-lunar-Martian trade and development as
the first steps toward solar system infrastructure. " kokhmmm says, "Hi
Jason" kokhmmm says, "And the cis-lunar options help Mars too." Lunadyne
says, "I'm working with some folks on investment banking opportunities for
the space sector, and one of the points brought up in a recent telecon is
that from a business perspective, Mars doesn't bring much to the table over
the near term." Chard says, "i'm on my iPhone" Strangelv-2 says, "Could we
develop a possible timeline or Lunar, NEO, and Martian development?"
Strangelv-2 says, "s/or/for/" kokhmmm says, "I say that if it succeeds we
push Ken's cis-lunar plans as helpful to opening Mars as well as the Moon."
Lunadyne says, "Hi Jason. We may be doing a Press Release for Mars
Curiosity. Can you send me the space media contact list you've worked up?"
alanzaldua says, "Actually John Strickland is working on a paper that tries
to lay out cislunar-mars steps. " Chard says, "sure I have it on my
limericks workstation" Chard says, "That" dcarson says, "Mars may have more
long term potential but there are several ways to on paper make money of
the moon now" Chard says, "my next" Chard says, "linux" Lunadyne says,
"Peter, they weren't really plans, so much as a roadmap. John sent me that
paper and I can't get on board as is. I've been chewing on it, but I'm
distracted with Moon Day." dcarson says, "tourism, LOX to LEO, power
beaming" alanzaldua says, "Yes, we sell the Moon as the best way to get to
SUSTAINABLE mars development. " Lunadyne says, "With that I agree entirely"
alanzaldua says, "Anyone who wants to see Strickland's paper, just let me
know. I already sent it to Ben. " Chard says, "I like to see it if you
would send it to me as well" bnault says, "10 mins ago...so I haven't read
it yet" Chard says, "tuttlepc@gmail.com" Lunadyne says, "Al, my main issue
with the paper is that it calls for a pre-selection of particular elements,
versus seeing what responses the markets develop in response to the need. "
alanzaldua says, "Will do, Chard. " Chard says, "thank you" alanzaldua
says, "Understood, Ken, but I think sometimes you have to lay something out
to get the ball rolling. " Lunadyne says, "I doubt anyone's talking about
silane depots, but if we collect the debris in GEO there are a lot of dead
Russian kick-stages whose motors used silane." Lunadyne says, "Al, like I
said, John suggested I make some revisions, which I've been working on."
alanzaldua says, "Great!" alanzaldua says, "Please send them to me if also
if that's OK. " Lunadyne says, "Scotty, do you happen to have any
membership brochures?" Scottyg says, "no." Lunadyne says, "does anyone?"
Strangelv-2 remembers the membership brochure that was the ASI flyer with
he serial numbers scarped off; does that count? Lunadyne says, "No, we've
got something more recent. I have three or so." Strangelv-2 says, "It was
hard to develop one when we had our post-ASI identity crisis" Strangelv-2
says, "I'd like to see them" Lunadyne says, "I mentioned earlier that I was
working on a new one, but don't think I'll have it ready." kokhmmm says, "I
can send you the pdf file for our latest brochure, several years old."
pjbanyai says, "That reminds me that we apparently have publishing right to
some books by Phil Harris. Does anyone have the details on that. Currently
he is self publishing the books through Infinity Publishing.com."
Strangelv-2: jamesg@dimensionalityp.com Strangelv-2 tries that again
Strangelv-2: jamesg@dimensionality.com Lunadyne says, "Paul, if you want to
tackle the editing on those..." Lunadyne says, "I know we have Lunar
Pioneers, the sequel to..." Scottyg says, "Ken, I need to bail out. (Family
emergency.) Can I pose my question now?" Lunadyne says, "Yes" Scottyg says,
"My question is...Am I/Should I be/ a member of the management committee?
The Bylaws state the Management Committee is composed of the Directors and
Officers of the Society. As Assistant Treasurer, I think I'm an Officer.
But the Bylaws also say the majority of the Management Committee must be
Directors. If I'm included, that makes it exactly 50/50. Any opinions?"
pjbanyai says, "The Books are already being published and are available at
Amazon." Strangelv-2 says, "We may need to add a director seat" kokhmmm
says, "Paul, I tried to turn this over to Chuck Lesher (who agreed) who has
a publishing businees, but I do not know if he has done anything with it. "
Chard says, "I'll share mine" Lunadyne says, "Scotty, unless anyone has any
issues, I'm cool with it." Strangelv-2 says, "This is potentially serious,
but probably not as urgent as saving our 501(c)(3) status" alanzaldua says,
"No issues here. " Lunadyne says, "Peter, I don't think he has. But again,
they are an editing disaster. It would take a team to whip them into
shape." Chard says, "I got us the hook up amendable to get the come
information" Scottyg says, "The original intent of the Bylaws was only the
main officers would be included. So part of the question is whether
Assistant Treasurer is an "Officer"" kokhmmm says, "Paul, but we get no
royalty thru amazon. That's why Phil gave us rights specifically thru
another outlet. I'll see if I still have that information." Chard says,
"dis we gwt rhe axcccointing firm the information as requested?"
Strangelv-2 says, "My guess is no; I would not be opposed to adding it plus
another director seat" Scottyg says, "(I can definitively state the
original intent of the Bylaws since I wrote that section.)" dcarson says,
"I need to email them again with a followup Chard" kokhmmm says, "The only
problem with adding another Board seat is that we are having trouble
regularly finding candidates to fill the five slots wwe have." Chard says,
"treasurer by nature would be an officer" Scottyg says, "Yes, but Assistant
Treasurer might not." Scottyg says, "One difference is elected vs
appointed." kokhmmm says, "We could vote to award seets to both Phil Crume
and Alan Steinberg" alanzaldua says, "Can't the assistant treasurer be
classified any way we want?" Scottyg says, "Alan, basically yes." Chard
says, "i am willing to vacate my seat and be in the peanut section if we
have more qualified candidates" Scottyg says, "I've been behaving as if I'm
not a member. (In particular not voting on Management Committee
decisions.)" kokhmmm says, "Note, that this may not be germane, but we
haven't filled a required position for some time now: chairman of the
Board" Lunadyne says, "If we add a Director I'd want to add two, versus One
Director and One Officer." Chard says, "i can alwayas send in contributions
and read post meeting notes" Lunadyne says, "Peter, I thought we'd voted in
Scotty during one of the meetings he missed." kokhmmm says, "I may have
missed that meeting too." kokhmmm says, "Anyway we can't vote in someone
without his assent." Lunadyne says, "I think it was under the "Easier to
ask foregiveness than permission" philosophy." Scottyg says, "And at this
point I need to go. My daughter has been taken in to the emergency room and
my wife and I need to go provide moral support." Lunadyne says, "My
condolences and I hope all is well." Scottyg says, "Sorry -
daughter-in-law." dcarson says, "go, thats much more important" Chard says,
"yes go now the bus and take care okay that's been" Chard says, "godspeed"
kokhmmm says, "Hopw ahw i allright Scotty" alanzaldua says, "take care."
Scottyg says, "Probably not serious, but could be a gall bladder problem."
dcarson says, "painful" Lunadyne says, "Ouch" Scottyg says, "But she's also
pregnant so it could be a bad case of "morning sickness"" kokhmmm says,
"Did we want the Secretary's report?" Scottyg says, "G'nite!" Scottyg has
disconnected. Lunadyne says, "Peter, yes> You were AFK earlier." Lunadyne
says, "AFK = Away from Keyboard" Chard says, "am i still connected" Chard
says, "k" Lunadyne says, "Yes" kokhmmm says, "Secretary's report:
membership is 153, highest in years. Expirations are down. Publications.
M3IQ#15 was published tonight, MMM #257 will be published as soon as i get
chapter reports. MMM #@258 is underway." kokhmmm says, "Kindle Project - we
have decided to push the theme issues instead of the classics (same
material organized by subject theme). " bnault says, "peter, what happened
with Mark Lupfer?" The housekeeper arrives to cart Scottyg off to bed.
bnault says, "I thought he had taken over the Kindle project..." Lunadyne
says, "I'm looking forward to the Cislunar Business theme issue." kokhmmm
says, "3 theme issues are ready in the 1-column format: Lunar Economy,
Tourism, Arts & Crafts - the last two now have the obligatory indes. I
still have to create an intdex for the Lunar Economuy one. There are half a
dozen more issues in 2-column format awaiting reformating and indexing."
kokhmmm says, "Questions?" bnault says, "yes, peter. what happened with
Mark Lupfer? I thought he had taken over the Kindle project...?" kokhmmm
says, "Ben, Mark was waiting for me to send him more Classic issues - i
need to contact him about the change in plans and send him the theme issues
as I get them ready." bnault says, "so, he will be taking care of the
Kindle side?" kokhmmm says, "You inow that I take a month off in the
summer, and this time, I really really needed it but am finally back
producing." Lunadyne says, "Speaking of Kindles, I can get basic ones down
here for $50" kokhmmm says, "Mark has a Mac and he can read my files and
switch them to Office which Kindle requires." kokhmmm says, "At %50, I'd be
interested." Lunadyne says, "I think TMS could probably spring for one at
that level." kokhmmm says, "Having one may motivate me to work harder on
this project." kokhmmm says, "I was also doing a lot of work on this when i
got a chance to spend a few days at my north woods cottage. But I haven't
had a chance to go there since May. I have no Internet or phone there,
nothing to distract me." Lunadyne says, "I was going to ask what kind of
connection you would have for the Kindle." pjbanyai says, "A kindle with 3g
has free Sprint cellular." kokhmmm says, "So far, I have avoided getting a
cell phone. When I am away, I am away." kokhmmm says, "I guess I would have
to use it at home where I have wireless" dcarson says, "you can load a lot
on it" pjbanyai says, "It does not have phone capabilities. It can only
work with basic internet data." Lunadyne says, "I think once something is
loaded on it it is available even out-of-range" kokhmmm says, "Remember,
when I was a boy, phones did not yet have dials, only live operators"
Lunadyne says, "Pennsylvania Six Five Oh Oh Oh" Strangelv-2 uses the
hand-crank to try to pass a morse message on to the switchboard operator
kokhmmm says, "No, I didn't know Alexander Graham Bell personally."
alanzaldua says, "Glad I'm not an old fart like U guys. :)" kokhmmm says,
"You ain't far behind!" Strangelv-2 says, "Enoy it while you can. It's an
amazingly brif amount of time" alanzaldua says, "Youth is wasted on the
young. " Strangelv-2 nods. Lunadyne says, "Sure..." Lunadyne says, "Okay,
about 15 mins left. Any other important items?" kokhmmm says, "YES, WE
STILL NEED A NEW WEBMASTER!" Chard says, "uh oh" Chard says, "really?"
Lunadyne says, "Yes we do." Lunadyne says, "Peter, can you put a notice in
the next MMM?" Strangelv-2 does not volunteer to maintain the existing
site. If he were optimistic enough about his health to volunteer to do the
site he would be creating a new site and trying to plug that in to TeamDIR,
et c. Chard says, "i have an ass in web graphic design and a bs in design
and development w emphasis in web game programming does that count?"
kokhmmm says, "Jason, I have been having lots of trouble both since Randall
redid WSD and since I swithched to Macbook Pro which will not run the
software I was using on Macbook, and haven't found a good substitute.
Frustrated!!!" kokhmmm says, "I just can't load what I want to load."
kokhmmm says, "Nothing to do with design." kokhmmm says, "I has to send
Scotty the file for the new M3IQ #15 to upload, because I could not upload
it." Chard says, "i am focused on development but i was going to say send
me the ftp etc credentials and ill look at it and tell you if i would be
onterested" Chard says, "u can see a site i am just about finished with at
lcsotn. com" kokhmmm says, "Have Scotty set you up with WSD access."
pjbanyai says, "Were you using an ftp program to upload files or the wsd
browser app? WSD has both a basic html display and a java based display."
kokhmmm says, "WSD" kokhmmm says, "Ewcent problems, I upload a page and it
comes out in code, not WYAIWYG" kokhmmm says, "Or recently, I choose a
file, click upload, and nothing happens, try after try." pjbanyai says,
"You might have a problem if your wsd account was using java settings which
your new mac does not support for some reason." kokhmmm says, "I would not
know how to fix that." Chard-1 arrives in cloud of smoke. dcarson says,
"java differences is the most likely, I know Apple has a way to use a older
compatible one, don't remember offhand how" Chard-1 says, "if you can send
me rhe login details i will xheck it out and let you know od if i can be of
use" kokhmmm says, "I am a very very patient person but have run out of
patience. I just need to be replaced. I have kept the site updated (new
files, new reports, etc. for 7 years. Need to be replaced." kokhmmm says,
"Thre are lot of pages that need to be updated. I can't update them."
dcarson says, "are you running 10.7 aka Lion?" Chard-1 says, "i have a
custom cms that ive built that may work... " kokhmmm says, "Yes"
Strangelv-2 says, "Is there a reason a custom solution might be better than
a standard one like Drupal or WebsiteDirector?" Chard-1 says, "super quixck
and easy to use... but all my backend is in .net" kokhmmm says, "I prepare
files with an WYSIWYG editor. I can't get one to sing with the new Mac the
way I had it singing with the old one." dcarson says, "not going to ask you
to keep being webmaster, you've done it a long time but
http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1421 might help" Strangelv-2 says, "It might
not work. I don't know what level of mono support we have on our server"
Chard-1 says, "webmaster to me means something a bot diff i think" kokhmmm
says, "If I am going to concentrate on the Kindle project and the MMM the
Book project, I need to shed the webmaster job entirely." Chard-1 says,
"nah... the editors can be hosted elsewhere" Strangelv-2 says, "And those
are ones that we need you for a lot more than maintaining or reworking the
website -- the latter being a task millions of people could be doing"
Lunadyne says, "Jason, I think Peter means it more in the context of
keeping the website fresh and updated versus behind-the-scenes code
support." Chard-1 says, "it willl take me some time but i am a
perfectionist" pjbanyai says, "Peter I just changed your wsd user
preferences to be more like mine. You should be able to use WYSIWYG now."
Lunadyne says, "My view is that we should have a web team, with one member
designated the Webmaster who is also a TMS officer." kokhmmm says, "I can
always send whomever new files that need to be posted, changes that need to
be made on existing pages, etc." pjbanyai says, "We do have a web team but
no leader." Lunadyne says, "It seems more ad hoc than a team." kokhmmm
says, "All the teams are really defunct." Chard-1 says, "i think you are
looking for someone to ise the existing system and update the content"
Lunadyne says, "Bingo" kokhmmm says, "You got it." Chard-1 says, "thats not
what i do" Lunadyne says, "Peter, let's go ahead and put a notice in the
next MMM." Chard-1 says, "i can help of you riun into a technical issue
though" alanzaldua says, "Will have to go soon, guys. " kokhmmm says,
"Okay, will do that. I'll come up with a job description." kokhmmm says,
"It is the witching hour now guys" Strangelv-2 remains of the view that we
probably need a new setup. Parts of the legacy system may still be needed,
but the main publicface of the site should be something new, unless there
have been major changes to the amount of documentation available for WSD
Chard-1 says, "be safe" Lunadyne says, "Yeah, I need to bolt as well. I
have to be at the museum early tomorrow for a news crew filming some Moon
Day stuff." Chard-1 says, "has been a very productive meeting" pjbanyai
says, "As far as I could tell the web team did not have the proper user
access rights to be effective." Lunadyne says, "I see it is now 10pm. Do we
have a motion to adjourn the formal meeting?" Chard-1 says, "i have jiu
jotsu eaerly" Lunadyne says, "Feel free to stick around and chat." kokhmmm
says, "move we adjoun" bnault says, "second" Lunadyne says, "In favor?"
Lunadyne says, "Aye" bnault says, "aye" Strangelv-2 says, "ALso, might be
useful to go to the Commons to chat. There's more of us there" kokhmmm
says, "aye" Chard-1 says, "aye" pjbanyai says, "New members also had no
idea what they were supposed to do or even where to start." Strangelv-2 is
also in the commons right now dcarson says, "aye" pjbanyai says, "aye"
alanzaldua says, "aye" Lunadyne says, "So moved. We are adjourned." Chard-1
says, "nite guys" Strangelv-2 says, "The guts of our site, AFAIK, date to
the 1990s." Lunadyne says, "Night guys." alanzaldua says, "g'nite folks."
kokhmmm says, "James, when I come up with the job description, I will send
it to you and you can post it in the MOO." bnault says, "g'night all!"
kokhmmm says, "goodniht all." bnault has disconnected. kokhmmm says, "quit"
kokhmmm has disconnected. alanzaldua says, "@quit" Lunadyne has
disconnected. pjbanyai says, "Should also post to all members." alanzaldua
has disconnected. Strangelv-2 onders if anyone still on Artemis List would
want to bite pjbanyai says, "Artemis list is mostly defunct now since it
was fully open to the public and was starting to be spammed." Strangelv-2
says, "If nothing else, announcing it there would help remind people that
the list still exists" Strangelv-2 wonders if it's attached to the milter
filter. There's a multi-hour delay between posting and showing up pjbanyai
says, "Moonsocietyforum.com was shut down by spammers" Strangelv-2 says,
"Boop" Strangelv-2 says, "The wikis have been hit to varying degrees. The
one that's been hit the hardest is Exoplatz, our general space wiki" Chard
has disconnected. Strangelv-2 says, "MY attempt at upgrading the CAPTCHA
ended up with it being down for a few months, and it's presentyl running
without one at all. I forgot to as in here if anyone wouldo bject if I
resorted to disabling acocunt creation for a bit" The housekeeper arrives
to cart bnault off to bed. The housekeeper arrives to cart kokhmmm off to
bed. The housekeeper arrives to cart Lunadyne off to bed. Strangelv-2 says,
"Attackers who don't create accounts are easier to deal with thanks to one
of the quirks of MediaWiki's design. They reate an account and the losgest
their IP can be banned for is 24 hours. if they post garbage or similar
from an IP address I can ban the IP for as long as i find decessary. Wi"
The housekeeper arrives to cart alanzaldua off to bed. Strangelv-2 says,
"With longer-lasting IPs the duration I use has cript up to 180 days"
Strangelv-2 says, "90 days had the botnet node still having the same IP and
attacking again. I've not seen a return with it set to 180 days"
Strangelv-2 says, "Right now our only real garbage control tool on Exoplatz
is a bot that looks at recent posts every six minutes" Strangelv-2 says,
"wait. Ten." Strangelv-2 says, "Four minutes is what I have it set for on
the political wiki I originally wrote it for" Strangelv-2 says, "For
Liunarpedia, Marspedia I have it checking every 20 miniutes; for
Exodictionary once an hour" pjbanyai wonders if Randall could setup a
teamdir server/database link so all moonsociety members had accounts with
the wikis? Strangelv-2 says, "For some reason nobody's been attacking
Exodictionary much. I need ot set it up to also run on Scientifiction,
which we really need a mwajor overhaul for so it's moer than just a
repository for hings moved off of Lunarpeida" Strangelv-2 says, "It would
be challenging. Not only is Mediawiki a completely different piece of
software, it's running on a completely different server" The housekeeper
arrives to cart Chard off to bed. Strangelv-2 says, "Our efforts to get
Lunarpdia up and running on pb7 ... ...could have gone better" Strangelv-2
says, "That was when Mike forked out for a DreamHost accaunt" Strangelv-2
says, "if we lose our 501(c)(3) status it's going to eliminate one of our
most obvious options for alternate hosting" pjbanyai says, "I briefly had
joomla running on the Discussion team page using my Dreamhost database. It
was a little slow on downloading." Strangelv-2 says, "Admitntedly, I don't
believeu we'd be able to run the MOO on it. We'd have to find another
solution for where to host the MOO" Strangelv-2 says, "Slow is one term
that could be used to describe how it was working wvith an off-server
database. Admittedly, the server for Mike's account with his hen hosting
ISP mwas located in Belgium" Strangelv-2 says, "Dana was also heavirly
involved with that effort" Strangelv-2 says, "They might remember more than
I did" pjbanyai says, "I have installed the most recent version of the
basic moo program on my account. It works. However I don't know how to
program it or really set it up properly." Strangelv-2 says, "LambdaMOO on
Dreamhost?" Strangelv-2 says, "I seem to remember discussion on options for
porting the database over so hopefulyl there would be milimal setup"
Strangelv-2 says, "Just getting the existing MOO to run on a new server"
Strangelv-2 says, "...maybe add another wizard or two" Strangelv-2 says,
"...And change the permissions on some key bits of infrastructure so taht
others can add rooms and buildings and the like" pjbanyai says, "The
Artemis MOO database is Stored by cyberteams and most likely has other
Cyberteam MOOs in the same database. LambdaMOO can be used on a Virtual
Private Server or Dedicated Server." Strangelv-2 says, "I'm pretty sure
MIke's DreamHost account doesn't qualify as victual private. It absolutely
isn't a dedicated one" Strangelv-2 says, "We also have a lot of stuff on it
that's not Moon Society" dcarson says, "is actually all one moo, Randall
added the code to have multiple wolrds with ways to gate between, all one
db" Strangelv-2 says, "We'd want to port all of them to the new location"
Strangelv-2 says, "With possible itemized exceptions, such as TLRC"
Strangelv-2 says, "MArs, Marshome, NSS -- definitely they would need to tag
along for the ride" Strangelv-2 says, "MoonSims/SimsHOst" Strangelv-2 says,
"evn if they're not getting as much use as they once did" Strangelv-2
remembers being in ROse's office there. Rose stepped out, MIke made a typo,
then ROse returned and asked what a freight elevator was doing in her
office pjbanyai says, "who" Strangelv-2 points to Mike and Rose in Paul's
list of who's connected Strangelv-2 says, "Note that who doesn't show
people from other connected MOOs like NSS" Strangelv-2 says, "if THAT
worked, it would probbyl mke it easier to get people from here to remember
to visit Space Chat on Thursdays. 89)" pjbanyai says, "Sorry was typeing
one thing, erased it except say, and then typed who to see who was still
online." Strangelv-2 says, "It happens" Strangelv-2 uses double quotes
instead of the word say. Fever keystrokes Strangelv-2 says, "Fewer, too"
Strangelv-2: "Fewer, too Strangelv-2 says, "Reducing the frequency of such
occurences is why I have @autosay off" Strangelv-2 says, "and have since
about, oh, 1999" Strangelv-2 only missed tnhe first five years. Alas, they
were also the most exciting ones pjbanyai says, "Any way, if we could setup
a new opensimulator program and link it to the MOO we could actually have
people exploring a true visual representation of Angus Bay." Strangelv-2
says, "Have a set of locations in the virtual world that correspond to the
MOO, which all chat in one appearing in the other?" Strangelv-2 says, "so
people could attend the same meeting form either space?" Strangelv-2 says,
"or hat might be another way to connect the two? Have avatarns for people
in the room, such as the Commons, which is the one most heavily used. That,
Space Chat, Here and the Auditorium are the ones I know of that get regular
use -- and the auditorium is often about once a year" Strangelv-2 says,
"Here twice a month; Space Chat once a week; The Commons continuously"
Strangelv-2 says, "It might be possible to confine it to here, Space Chat,
and the Commons for the points of mutual connectivity. OTOH, a more
detailed connectivity could help bring about moer interest in the
archinecture of the oritical text mockup, as well as help firmly establish
a contiuity between the two" Strangelv-2 says, "What is Opensimulator?"
Strangelv-2 may be falling asleep pjbanyai says, "http://opensimulator.org/
is basically an open source version of secondlife. It uses Linden Labs
opensource Secondlife client and some other open materials they made
available." pjbanyai says, "It can also have text based clients so that it
acts like LambdaMOO." Strangelv-2 says, "CAn it handle the same
compaltibilit level?" Strangelv-2 says, "Log in with TELNET on an aging
smartphone?" Chard-1 has disconnected. The housekeeper arrives to remove
Chard-1. Strangelv-2 says, "If we use the samte layout as what we have here
and have the same key points of interest andother points of continuity we
should be able to get awvay with listing the start date as 1999. We also
need to handle all the legacy use cases" Strangelv-2 says, "We also need to
be user we can keep it up and running" pjbanyai says, "There are secondlife
clients for Android." Strangelv-2 says, "Lots of things don't stay up and
running for 13+ yars" pjbanyai says, "and iphone/ipad" Strangelv-2 says,
"And could we get Peter to be able to use it?" Strangelv-2 says, "Ken?"
Strangelv-2 says, "Grady Woodard,
Redstone/Atlas/Mercury/Gemini/Apollo/Skylab engineer?" Strangelv-2 says,
"and Space Chat regular" Strangelv-2 says, "I'm not opposed to something
bigger, but I'm going to be fundamentally conservative here" Strangelv-2
says, "I don't want to risk destroying everytnhing reaching for a ring that
breaks out of the wall over a chasming precipise" Strangelv-2 says, "...and
I can't reliably get a SecondLife client to run on my workstation, let
alone a telephane" Strangelv-2 says, "...and if the goal is to have a typed
chat, all of the graphics are, frankly, distracting to me" Strangelv-2
says, "a pure IRC style chat would help a lot. IRC is what we were using
before the MOO" Strangelv-2 also has a harld time with all of the
bookmarked teleports Strangelv-2 could't even keep track of the details of
his own SecondLife account Strangelv-2 says, "If I cn't manage it, I haevs
a hard time expecting Peter and Grady to" Strangelv-2 says, "Anyway, I
don't wanta pure SecondLife solution, at least not as a replacement for the
MOO" Strangelv-2 says, "MAybe as a secondary project" Strangelv-2 says,
"Interlinked seems like a good idea, if we can pull it off" Strangelv-2
also tends to be more rejectionary and conservative when he's more asleep
than awake. Strangelv-2 says, "More ideas might help, but I can't think of
any right now" Strangelv-2 says, "Also, ther's the Oregon L5's SecondLIfe
effort. Jason and I were the onyl ones from here to get involved with it,
and we didn't get involved at teh same time. I'd already given up before
Jason started." Strangelv-2 says, "It wouldn't wokr wvery well if we were
teh only people there, and pulling the plug here could be a disaster -- or
at a minimum send most of the community to Skype, which is the least bad
substitute we've found" pjbanyai says, "Skype had problems because Peter
was the only one who could add new members to the group and most members
had a tendency to accidently quit the group." Strangelv-2 says, "The ASI
MOO refugee center may not have that problem, or at least not both of them"
Strangelv-2 says, "I'm not sure if people who aren't me can add members,
though" Strangelv-2 says, "It'sa lso fallen into disuse after the MOO
stopped crashing rmultiple times a week" Strangelv-2 waves at pjbanyai and
dcarson. pjbanyai says, "I had high hopes that Google Wave could replace
the chat aspect of the MOO. It was being used for board meetings by several
companies. Google transfered it to Apache." pjbanyai has disconnected. The
housekeeper arrives to cart pjbanyai off to bed. 
-- End log: Thursday, July 19, 2012 2:04:04 pm ASI Meeting Server time --