-- Start log: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 9:03:03 pm ASI Meeting Server time -- 
Lunadyne says, "That works too." Lunadyne says, "Evening everyone.
Welcome to the September 19 Leadership meeting." Lunadyne says, "We'll
start with the membership report, which has leapt to 169 current members."
Scottyg has arrived. Lunadyne says, "Hi Scotty!" Scottyg says, "Hi Ken!"
Lunadyne says, "I was about to mention that you had updated the membership
rolls with our free ISDC speaker memberships." Lunadyne says, "Thanks you."
Lunadyne says, "Thank you." Scottyg says, "Yeah, I finally got that done.
Belatedly." Lunadyne says, "Any comments on membership?" Rose/Miros
arrives. Lunadyne says, "Hi Rose!" Rose/Miros says, "hi" Lunadyne says,
"Just looking for comments on membership." Lunadyne says, "Seeing none,
we'll move on to the Treasurer's Report." Lunadyne says, "Dana, how do we
stand with the update of the books?" Scottyg says, "We are now up to 169
members." Chard-1 arrives in cloud of smoke. dcarson says, "slower then I
like but another year entered" Strangelv-3 arrives. dcarson says, "Scotty,
I need you to mail me the bank statements I'm missing" Lunadyne says, "What
years do we have done?" Scottyg says, "Will do Dana." Lunadyne says, "Hi
Jason!" Chard-1 says, "hello!" Chard-1 says, "sorry I'm semi comatose "
Rose/Miros says, "i'll poke you if you need to vote for anything" Chard-1 )
Chard-1 says, ".. : )" Lunadyne says, "Dana, any chance we can be done by
year end? I'd like to get that and the Guidestar stuff straightened out for
a fresh start on Jan 1." dcarson says, "I think so" Scottyg says, "If
anyone wants to know, our current bank balance is about 30,700. Climbing
very slowly." Lunadyne says, "Better climbing than falling." Scottyg says,
"Yep, but our net cash flow is marginal." Lunadyne says, "What's feeding
the rise? Membership renewals?" Scottyg says, "We can't afford to do much
more that reduces income without a new source of income." Strangelv-3 says,
"How much of that bank balance is earmarked?" Lunadyne says, "One of the
key aspects of the new website design will be a section for commerce."
Scottyg says, "Ken, pretty much that. We do get some donations too but they
don't usually add a lot." Lunadyne says, "IIRC, about $6000 is earmarked
for our two science projects." Lunadyne says, "Might be closer to $7000.
Peter would know better," Scottyg says, "And about $3000 is earmarked to
deliver future newsletters." dcarson says, "and a chunk to Lunar
Reclamation for the newsletter" Scottyg says, "That's a swag. I don't have
an accurate accounting for that." Lunadyne says, "We've got $500 (springing
to $1000 if needed) for an audit of the books." Strangelv-3 says, "Sounds
like we need to have this in a report sometime. It's more complicated tnhan
I thought." Lunadyne says, "A formal CPA audit." Lunadyne says, "I want to
spend some money in the next year for: glossy membership brochures, glossy
postcards, and bumper stickers." Lunadyne says, "That'll probably run a
couple grand." Rose/Miros says, "up to 13 grand so far" Lunadyne says, "I'm
comfortable having $15,000 in the bank free and clear. For the moment.
Luckily our needs aren't too terribly high at the moment." Lunadyne says,
"Next year's ISDC track may put a dent in that, though." AlanSteinberg
says, "What does it "cost" to put on a track?" Lunadyne says, "Part of our
fundraising strategy going forward is through online commerce. Our website
will have a section where people can buy books through our bookstore,
Upload MMMs to their Kindle, get a checking account at NASA FCU, give a
donation at the tip jar at our Facebook page, &c., &c." Scottyg says,
"Dana, how much are we paying now for newsletters?" Rose/Miros says, "I was
told in the past that we have to have a minimum number of paper copies
going out to keep our bulk mail rates. Don't know if that's still true or
even applicable." Lunadyne says, "Alan, we don't really have direct cost
for the ISDC track. NSS gives us the space as part of our "affiliation"
with them (sometimes), and we fill it with content. The Lava Tube track is
going to be a bit more science-y than our previous tracks, which leads me
to suspect there will be some unanticipated costs." AlanSteinberg says,
"yeah, i didn't think it would have a direct cost, but I was confused since
you said "ISDC may put a dent" in the money" dcarson says, "95 cents paper,
25 cents electronic per member/month" Lunadyne says, "What's the
approximate ratio of paper to electronic?" dcarson says, "the handful of
overseas paper is $2.95 a month" dcarson says, "about 2-1 I think" Lunadyne
says, "Wow, that many paper?" Lunadyne says, "We so need to get our members
on the "green" bandwagon and get them shifted to electronic." dcarson says,
"there is the problem if we drop too low mailing costs go up" Scottyg says,
"58 to 111 at the moment" Rose/Miros says, "which is paper and which is
electronic?" Scottyg says, "111 paper, 58 electronic." Scottyg says, "I
just did a rough calculation of newsletter liability. I got $3017.65"
Scottyg says, "But as I recall, that will be a little low. It doesn't
properly account for life memberships." Scottyg says, "Takes a bit of
spreadsheet work to get the exact amount." Lunadyne says, "Do we know the
break-point for when the mailing costs go up? I can see keeping
institutional recipients with a paper copy, but I would like to start
saving as many 70 cents per copy costs as possible." dcarson says, "would
have to look it up" dcarson says, "or see if the LRS people know" pjbanyai
says, "We should setup a formal budget outlining where everything is going.
I think this is one reason why Bryce left. He surprised us with a budget
request for an Outreach issue during what was supposed to be a board
meeting. Essentially he forced a pop quiz on us and the result was mostly
abstentions since it was the wrong venue to bring the topic up in. Ideally
any proposal concerning outreach should be brought up in the Outreach
Committee which would then inform the board ahead of any meeting so there
would be proper discussion. He may also have been confused by the fact that
Ken occasionally had asked for budget requests which may not have been
clearly defined as part of the President's allotted fund." Lunadyne says,
"That one still stings." Rose/Miros says, "i think peter knows when we'd
lose the bulk mail benefits" Chard-1 says, "I was wondering why I've not
been seeing him at the meetings " Rose/Miros says, "that would cause the
per issue costs to go up, but if we drop the number low enough, we'd be
saving money" Lunadyne says, "I do agree on a formal budget. Part of that
is having good financial records, so that we can get a good sense of where
the costs are going, which helps in the budgeting process. That's why I've
been hammering on the topic of an audit of the books since last August."
dcarson hangs head Rose/Miros says, "2 months or 14 months?" Rose/Miros
says, "either is a pretty short time. you don't want to know how long i've
been asking for a brochure to give out at various events" Lunadyne says,
"Dana, you've been asked to do work for which you were not prepared. I
can't put the blame on you." pjbanyai says, "He even left facebook and he
had been quite active in the discussion group. Now have some discussions
between people and an empty chair :-)" Lunadyne says, "Rose, one of my
projects for this year. I have an old one, but it keeps getting buried in
stacks of paper. We need a nice glossy one that is info + membership form."
Rose/Miros says, "speaking of membership form, since scotty is here..."
alanzaldua has arrived. Lunadyne says, "Hi Al!" pjbanyai says, "Hi Al"
alanzaldua says, "Hi everybody!" Rose/Miros says, "how hard would it be to
add a Code field to the electronicform and database so we can track where
people got the brochure?" Chard-1 waves. Scottyg says, "Ken, I can put
together a pretty good current P&L if you want it. It's the balance sheet
that has to have all the history entered." Rose/Miros says, "such as
origins, bonagany, etc" Lunadyne says, "My analytical aspie brain wants to
look at year over year stuff, not just a current P&L, though I will take
that." Lunadyne says, "Bonagany? The festival?" Scottyg says, "Since our
finance are pretty simple, the bank balance is a pretty good indicator of
year over year." Rose/Miros says, "no, bonagany is an event in the village
of allegany attempting to smooth relationships between the community and st
bonaventure university" Scottyg says, "While we use accrual accounting,
there isn't much to accrue except the newsletter liability." Lunadyne says,
"Alright. I'll start on a budget once I get the current P&L." Lunadyne
says, "Any other Treasury questions?" Rose/Miros says, "i just found out
they allow non-profit groups to have tables last week, so i didn't bother
trying to get organized w ith the event next week" Scottyg says, "Ok. I
can't promise I'll have it by next meeting but I'll try. Pretty much for
sure meeting after next." Scottyg says, "And I can compile the bank
balances at year-end going back several years. Dana has the data before
that." Lunadyne says, "Just as a final note for Treasury: getting the books
in order is part of a larger process of making sure we're in the good
graces of the internet giants like Amazon and Paypal. Another part of that
is Guidestar. I've got most of my stuff done, but a big gap is the Chairman
of the Board of Directors of The Moon Society. (speaking of empty
chairs...)" Scottyg says, "There are a couple of anamolous events buried in
the data. I'll try to point those out." pjbanyai says, "Robert's rules
concerning committees, chairmans, and parlimentary procedures are also
supposed to help prevent people from leaving over what may be simple
errors." Rose/Miros says, "was it a one-time, this is the wrong meeting for
that, or was he told that over and over?" Lunadyne says, "I've indicated
previously that I would be willing to serve as Chairman of the BoD if
asked, but I consider it a real conflict-of-interest to chair the body to
which I am answerable." Scottyg says, "Rose, I think the problem was lack
of advance warning so necessary information could be made available."
Rose/Miros says, "don'tworry, people willl climb up your butt if they think
you're doings omething iffy or outright wrong" dcarson says, "he really
wanted to do it, the rest of us wanted to think about it and there wasn't
time" Lunadyne says, "Rose, the issue was that he asked us to purchase a
half-dozen tickets to a local event that had John Glenn as a speaker. There
was no clear plan as to where those tickets would be going, and so a lot of
people, myself included, balked." pjbanyai says, "The nature of the MOO
also does not always contribute to a clear understandable meeting."
Lunadyne says, "Boy ain't that the truth." Rose/Miros points to her comment
about no bonagany participation due to no notice and no brochures
AlanSteinberg says, "we also arn't good at staying on topic" Scottyg says,
"Ken, something else we should think about is sme basic financial controls.
We have too much power concentrated in a very small number of people. (I'm
one of them.)" Lunadyne says, "Part of the joy of the MOO. No one has even
commented on my Chairman of the BoD point." Rose/Miros says, "i did, i said
we'd climb up your butt if we didn't like what you were doing" Scottyg
says, "Ken I see your point." AlanSteinberg says, "I've commented before...
based on the fact that the president is a non-paid position, I don't see
the need to have a seperate Pres & Chairman... I'd support changing the
bylaws to just make it one person and in the meantime have no problem with
1 person in the roll" dcarson says, "or at least make it explicit that they
can be the same person" Strangelv-3 still findhs MOO meetings to be
enourmously easier to keep up with than phone ones. He can look back and
re-read what he missed or forgotabout already. Witha phone, it's easy to
get disoriented, especialyl if distracted by arguing fabily members,
running water, and truck engines, possibyl n multiple continents Lunadyne
says, "I've got to check the calendar for the next BoD meeting. That needs
to be a priority so that we can get the guidestar stuff finished." Scottyg
says, "I agree James. I think having a written record is enormously
helpful." alanzaldua says, "I am neutral on the issue the Pres and Board
Chair being the same person, altho I'll give it more thought. " Lunadyne
says, "Okay, closing out the Treasurer's Report. Thanks Dana." dcarson
says, "having a Secratary or someone who reads the log and extracts a todo
list is useful" alanzaldua says, "yes. " Lunadyne says, "Our Secretary is
in absentia this evening, so we'll move on to the President's Report."
AlanSteinberg says, "the beauty of this online chat based meeting is that I
can multi-task yet still keep up... ha ha (though using a simper inferface
that we don't have to "run" like google docs migth be easier" Strangelv-3
says, "If we have a mechanism for dealing with an abusive combined
president and chair I don't mind having the option of combining them"
Lunadyne says, "Abusive? Moi?" Lunadyne says, "lol" Rose/Miros gets out her
official MATY poking stick. We have ways of making you behave. Strangelv-3
says, "Not thinking fo you, but in terms of hypothetical. And with other
groups, not so hypothetical" Rose/Miros says, "ok,no one knows what MATY
is. It's a Bad Place on the Internet. " pjbanyai says, "I have been talking
about it since day 1 of my vice-presidency. I believe both Scotty and James
are most familiar with Robert's Rules an the nature of the Chairmanship."
Strangelv-3 says, "Complication is that my availability isn't conistent"
Lunadyne says, "Okay, Pres report. I was mentioned in the Israeli newspaper
Makor Rishon in a special section they did on the Moon. It's in Hebrew, so
don't know i they were mocking me or not. Haven't been able to ind it
online, but have an electronic version i anyone is interested." Strangelv-3
says, "One of the reasons I stepped down was so that skipping metings would
become a pssibility when, for example, I'm asleep" Strangelv-3 says, "The
other was to free up a chair for people with new ideas, as everything i
wanted to push through had been accomplished two years earlier" Scottyg
says, "We've also experimented with somewhat meeting rules. We've generally
used an informal format as we are doing now. But to see how it worked, we
also held a few meenings in formal format, where a member was required to
obtain permission from the chair before speaking." Scottyg says, "That
tended to keep us on topic better but made the meeting go slower overall."
Strangelv-3 says, "The two sets can be combined. My preferred solution is
an outer formal structure, but open up for timed periods of discusison. Not
enough time and someone can move to extend time" alanzaldua says, "I would
think, glacial. " pjbanyai says, "I recently read the log of the Society's
first Board meetings. It has not really changed much since then. Except
nobody is programming the MOO to calculate equations or randomly role
dice:)" Lunadyne says, "I will be speaking on four space panels this
weekend at the FenCon science fiction writer's conference in Dallas. One on
trans-Solar exploration and settlement (with C.J. Cherryh! ZOMG!), one on
The Future of Space, chairing a panel on One Giant Leap, and lastly a panel
on Billionaire's in Space...It's about time." Scottyg says, "It certainly
requires the chairman to pay close attention." Strangelv-3 says, "Side
comments are less ofa prloblem here than in a vocal meeting, so they should
probabyl be permitted. Just don't take over the discussion" Strangelv-3
says, "...and close attention isn't something I can do anymore" Lunadyne
says, "I will also be speaking at the UTA Planetarium on Saturday for
International Observe the Moon Night (InOMN)." Strangelv-3 claps. Lunadyne
says, "In November I will be on a panel on destinations at the SEDS
SpaceVision 2012 conference in Buffalo, NY." Chard-1 says, "wow"
Strangelv-3 says, "Maybe your caletdar neds/-ot be prlominently featured on
our website?" Rose/Miros says, "cool, i'll try to be there" alanzaldua
says, "I just gave a presentation on commercial space. Should we be
announcing these in advance?" dcarson says, "yes" Strangelv-3 says, "I
can't see how it could be a minus as long as we don't abrluptyl stop"
dcarson says, "I didn't do anything at Chicon but Christopher Carson (no
relation) did have out flyers at his Luna City table" dcarson says, "
http://thecarsonfamily.org/Chicon/Pages/11.html" dcarson says, "and the
next two" AlanSteinberg says, "at the very least we should be doing little
write ups on the talks ... not only is it something for the newsletter, but
it makes the organization look active" Rose/Miros says, "i think it would
be helpful, that way local chapters could attend" dcarson says, "he was
also on some of the space track panels" Lunadyne says, "Yes, we should have
write-ups in MMM, and appearances announced in advance." alanzaldua says,
"I could send a para on my last talk... to the secretary?" Lunadyne says,
"At the beginning of the year, I challenged all of the TMS leaders to get
one article/editorial/blog post/whatever published over the course of this
year. We are now about 3/4s done, and so far I think only myself and
Peter/Al have anything published, both at The Space Review. Updates?"
dcarson says, "tp Peter so it can go in MMM" alanzaldua says, "I will also
be giving at least one, probably 2, presentations in November. I'll tip
Peter. " Rose/Miros says, "and you could paste it up on the new website; we
intend to move it lock stock and database to its final location" Lunadyne
says, "Remember, Chris' Luna City is an independent efort rom TMS."
Strangelv-3 says, "Isn't Luna City a trademark of The Lunar Resources
Company?" dcarson says, "yes but he is a member and did have Moon Society
fliers" dcarson says, "no we did trademark that" dcarson says, "so we had a
presence, I had taken a flier to copy and put in the handut area but he did
a much better job" Lunadyne says, "Who's this "we", kemosabe?" Lunadyne
says, "TMS or LRS?" dcarson says, "didn't trademark" pjbanyai says, "Apache
Wave would definitely be a huge improvement on the MOO. It is possible to
edit anything written similar to Skype. It is open platform unlike Skype.
Can have apps such as vote counters, maps, graphs, spreadsheets, docs, etc.
It could possibly even have a Robert's Rule guide app." Rose/Miros writes
that down pjbanyai says, "Wave can also clearly show multiple discussions
and can have a web log posted to a page." Strangelv-3 says, "Can we host it
ourselves? What are the relative minuses? So far EVERYTHING I've seen
suggested as an alternative has them, with the possibel exception of IRC,
which simply lacks features we've gotten used to" Lunadyne says, "No
updates on the articles. Okay. That closes out the President's Report."
Lunadyne says, "Next on the agenda is Website. Rose, you have the floor for
an update on your progress." Rose/Miros says, "very little" Rose/Miros
says, "let me consult my notes..." Rose/Miros says, "i'm having difficulty
contacting randall about several issues Scotty brought up last week"
Rose/Miros says, "for the meeting that happened out in the commons"
Lunadyne says, "What are those issues?" Rose/Miros says, "basically, we
need drupal to talk to Team Director, which may be as simple as writing an
access module for drupal" Scottyg says, "I sent around a log of that
meeting. But I'm not sure if you would have received it Rose." Rose/Miros
says, "that's been sort of assigned to dana, since my php is iffy"
Rose/Miros says, "i have notes" Rose/Miros says, "at least about what i
thought was important" kokhmmm has arrived. Lunadyne says, "Hi Peter!"
kokhmmm says, "sorry i amlate" kokhmmm says, "Phil Crumne is having trouble
joining us, connecting, he has linux" Lunadyne says, "Rose, my
understanding of the drupal/Team Director interface is so that we can call
back to the old website for certain functions." pjbanyai says, "Only minus
with Apache Wave is that it is currently in a second alpha version after
Google gave it to the Apache Foundation. Some elements of Wave have been
integrated into Google Plus." kokhmmm says, "Can someone call him and help
him" Rose/Miros says, "anyhow, we seem to have 3 choices, everything stays
with cyberteams, the website and at leas t part of the team content move
and team dir stays on cyberteams, or the whole thing moves" kokhmmm says,
"440-925-0714" Lunadyne says, "Paul, would you be able to help Philip?"
Scottyg says, "Peter, suggest to him that he use tkMOO-light on Linux."
Rose/Miros says, "since you said we might be able to pay for hosting if we
can't get it for free, possibly we could join with cyberteamsand get join
hosting that's better than what cyberteams has now" Lunadyne says, "How
would that work?" Rose/Miros says, "which that?" Scottyg says, "I would
like to say this....We actually don't know that the long downtime of the
server was the fault of the hosting company." Lunadyne says, "join with
cyberteams and get joint hosting that's better than what cyberteams has
now." Rose/Miros says, "but the constant crashes in february probably were"
Rose/Miros says, "i'll have to talk to randall about most ofthis stuff,
including that point" Lunadyne says, "We've had several meetings
interrupted by unavailability of the website." Strangelv-3 suggests
Gnome-MUD for Linux pjbanyai says, "The MOO can run in a virtual private
server or a dedicated server. Dreamhost has both. I found two other hosting
providers for non profits.
http://www.thinkhost.com/socialchange/free-hosting.shtml and " Scottyg
says, "Before moving to thic company, the pair server crashed once and it
took several days to get it back up because Randall was using off-site
backup over a not-very-fast internet connection. So the restore took quite
a while." Rose/Miros writes that down dcarson says, "sadly good tech
support is expensive" dcarson says, "we can't afford expensive" Lunadyne
says, "Luckily we're not paying for that aspect of things." Strangelv-3
says, "As best I can tell Dreamhost's major security problem is resolved"
Rose/Miros says, "but it's ok with you to talk to randall about joint
hosting?" Lunadyne says, "Again, what would be involved with this "joint
hosting". Are you talking about your option #2?" alanzaldua says, "I don't
understand how joint hosting would work. Pls explain. " Strangelv-3 says,
"IIRC, the joit hosting option is we pay for part of it and CyberTeams pays
for part of it" Rose/Miros says, "i'm not too sure myself, other than how
james summarized it" Lunadyne says, "What do they get out of it?" Lunadyne
says, "And how would we be bound?" Rose/Miros says, "better hosting"
pjbanyai says, "Dreamhost has now partnered with CloudFlare which provides
a special DNS that that first looks at the Dreamhost DNS for a working
website and the falls back to a static cloud copy of the site if
Dreamhost's servers are down. I believe anyone can setup a CloudFlare
account even if you do not use Dreamhost." Strangelv-3 says, "Cyberteams
gets a lower cost per month for their dedicated hosting becaues we're
helping them pay the bill, and can possibly move to a better provider"
dcarson says, "presumbly it would bump it up to a better support levle if
one exists" Lunadyne says, "But we'd still be on their hardware? Or are we
sharing the cost on someone else's hardware?" dcarson says, "and we really
do need an outside DNS provider" Rose/Miros says, "sharing cost on someone
else's hardware" alanzaldua says, "OK. I get it now. " Strangelv-3 says,
"My understanding is most of the arrangement would be as we've had since
the 1990s: Cyberteams would continue to manage the server" kokhmmm says,
"If after the meeting, someone can help Phil get on that would be good, as
he may be joining th Board. Phone # is x"440-925-0714"and he shouold be
available for the next two hours, to 11 central, 12 eastern 9 pacific."
Rose/Miros says, "plus we'd pay something every month or what eve r"
Lunadyne says, "Hmmmm. Something" Strangelv-3 reaches for his phone, but
he's low on minute- kokhmmm says, "James he could call you back" Lunadyne
says, "Hmmm. Something's not adding up for me. The cui bono is not clear on
this one. I'd like to refocus the discussion on the three options Rose
noted earlier." Rose/Miros says, "people who pay per minute for phone
seriice ae not good choices for tech support" kokhmmm says, "Or give me
your number and I'll have him call you." Strangelv-3 says, "He's in. How do
we get him in here?" Rose/Miros says, "ok, the joint thing was an
alternative to point 1" Strangelv-3 says, "He's on as a guest" kokhmmm
says, "Dana can you fetch him into the meeting room?" dcarson says, "sure"
dcarson teleports Philip [Guest] in. Strangelv-3 says, "Success" Rose/Miros
says, "hi philip" Philip [Guest] says, "hi" kokhmmm says, "Hi Phil!"
Lunadyne says, "Option #1`: everything stays with cyberteams. Pretty much
going forward with the same service, and wrestling an updated website out
of the thing." Philip [Guest] says, "HI" Philip [Guest] says, "Gnome-MUD
works!" Rose/Miros says, "option 1a: chipping in so cyberteamscan get
better hosting" Lunadyne says, "Hi Phil! This is Ken, I use the Lunadyne
pseudonym to indicate "a unit of Moon force"" kokhmmm says, "That was fast,
Phil!" Strangelv-3 has been using Gnome-MUD ever since he moved to 63 bit
hardware and discovered that Papaya's 64 bit builds crashed the instant he
tried to do anything at all Strangelv-3 says, "or 64 but" Rose/Miros says,
"option 2: team dir stays on cyberteams, we move the site elsewhere, dana
writes a drupal modle to access team dir" Strangelv-3 makes a lot of
typose, especially when he's not doing as well as he needs to Rose/Miros
says, "well, the drupal module is neaded under any of the 3 options"
Lunadyne says, "Rose, my concern there (#1a) is that I see a bottomless
hole in the budget. I don't see how we can afford to pay for hosting for
CyberTeams in any material way given our Treasury." Scottyg says, "A point
to keep in mind...." pjbanyai says, "By the way Rose any CMS we use would
probably need to be able to comunicate with WSD PRo and WSD Express(which
manages the team pages)." Philip [Guest] says, "i have a dedicated linux
server on hand. if someone can help me finish the install and administer it
properly, we can have our own web server" dcarson says, "option 1b, we find
out that what happened was so unlikely we decide to stick with status quo"
Strangelv-3 says, "This would be a Scotty and maybe Dana action item to
make sure TeamDirector can communicate with Drupal 7" Scottyg says, "We
actually have two web site - http://www.moonsociety.org and
https://www.moonsociety.org." dcarson says, "what kind of connectivity?"
Rose/Miros says, "can i explore cost issues with randall? i don't think
he'd gouge us, and he's probably got fairly recent numbers on paid hosting.
i'll also look at the links for the non-profit hosting" Lunadyne says,
"Thanks for the offer Phil. We'll take that into consideration." alanzaldua
says, "ourown web server, phil? That sounds interesting. " Rose/Miros says,
"i never got the second one, whoever was posting them" Philip [Guest] says,
"i have a DSL with 22 Mbps download speed and about 1.5 Mbps upload"
Scottyg says, "Moving the non-secure site is not too much of a problem
relative to Team Director. There are a few tie-ins but not too much."
dcarson says, "can't hurt to get fact Rose" Strangelv-3 says, "Where is the
server located?" Philip [Guest] says, "most webhosting services are simply
varieties of linux servers. " Rose/Miros says, "i promise not to make any
commitments" Philip [Guest] says, "right next to my other computer"
Lunadyne says, "Back to option #1. I would like to get a sense of who on
the team is leaning toward this option." Scottyg says, "Moving the secure
site will be a major pain. It is very tightly integrated with Team Director
and the Team Director database." Philip [Guest] says, "but i would say this
might be an option down the road" Rose/Miros says, "um, let'snottake apole
before we get through the options" kokhmmm says, "Option 1 me" Lunadyne
says, "How much secure data do we have, Scotty?" Philip [Guest] says, "i
still have much to learn about setting up and properly administering an SSL
server" Scottyg says, "Ken, the secure site is mostly our online
registration system and the back-end that goes with it." Rose/Miros says,
"scotty, i DO have notes, you're jumping ahead" pjbanyai says, "https
simply refers to the use of a certificate. We do however have several
domain names including moonsociety.net." Lunadyne says, "Option 2 is to
move the "Face" of the page to a new host and website software. Certain
functions would be retained on the old site and "called" from the new
site." Strangelv-3 ponders the site in a data center and the MOO at a
different location, possibly with Philip? What else requiers dedicated
access?L Scottyg says, "I just wanted that relative to option #2, there are
two sites to consider." Rose/Miros says, "yes, that's in my notes" Lunadyne
says, "Agreed Scotty, and we'd have to recognize that, just as in the past,
there would be times in the future where we would not be able to call data
from the old site." Rose/Miros says, "we can move a lot of the team content
to the new site, since drupal is pretty good about restricting access based
on "role"" Lunadyne says, "It is a good stopgap measure, though, and can
give us some breathing room to migrate functionality from one location to
the other." Rose/Miros says, "but the drupal module someone would have to
write would have to work between the two sites" Rose/Miros says, "under
option 2 that is" pjbanyai says, "If we can use CloudFlare with Cyberteams
we would at the very least have all static pages available in the case of a
server failure." Lunadyne says, "We could get a new "Face" up pretty quick,
and take the time to migrate content, with edits and updates, from the old
site to the new. This would be in line with our internal resources." Philip
[Guest] says, "Would we have any downtime when building a new site?"
Rose/Miros says, "under option 1 and 3, it would be the same site, but for
3 we'd need to g et a team dir license from randall" Scottyg says, "Part of
our problem in making any decision is knowing what is acceptable to
Randall." Rose/Miros says, "maybe a couple hours, we're building at
moon.lunarpedia.org" Rose/Miros says, "i thinkw we can just pack up all the
files and all the data base content and unpack them wherever we want, then
repoint the dns if necessary\" Lunadyne says, "Phil, I envisioned that we
would put the new "face" up in relatively short order with the first level
of menu content built out. Then we'd start culling content from the old
site, revising/editing/combining as needed then adding to new site."
Rose/Miros says, "oh, i need a volunteer, someone to poke through the
public domain nasa stuff and find a lunarscape to put at the top of the
page" Scottyg says, "Hmmm. Rose, that's sorta true but we lose the ability
to change templates and then apply them site-wide." Rose/Miros says, "um,
in drupal that's called a THEME" Lunadyne says, "I sent you an e-mail or
two early on from folks that had contacted me. There should be a volunteer
there." Scottyg says, "Also, the home page won't work without WSD."
Lunadyne says, "The old home page or the new one?" Rose/Miros says, "giant
cluttered home page is GOING AWAY" Philip [Guest] says, "If there's one
image I particularly like, it's the "Last Man on the Moon" image in color"
Scottyg says, "The current home page." Lunadyne says, "I like the one we've
got on our facebook page." Philip [Guest] says, "What I've always hoped to
have is not a picture of the Moon from afar but one on the surface, of
where we'd like to be" Rose/Miros says, "and sinceall the content is in the
database, we dont' have to worry about peple's editors eating the comment
tags tha t wsd HAS TO AHVE" Rose/Miros says, "that's what i was asking
for... a lunarscape" Rose/Miros says, "a lunar landscape, not a landscape
with the moon in the sky, just to clarify" Lunadyne says, "Speaking of
Facebook, looks like B612 Foundation got some new money.
http://b612foundation.org/the-foundation/b612-founders-circle/" Strangelv-3
says, "The current home page is an amazing chimera. WE've been Web 2.0
since the 1990s and we hawve a home page that most people confuse for Web
1.0" Philip [Guest] says, "How about throwing a photoshop contest at the
members and ask them what they'd like to see behind the astronaut on the
suface?" Lunadyne says, "NSS has the same problem. As do a lot of other
folks." kokhmmm says, "I suggest the photo panorama of Apollo 17 great
landscape shows rover and shows astronauts prepareing to leave setting the
stage for whateer come next" Strangelv-3 posts his all in one place summary
Strangelv-3: 1: Maintain the status quo: CyberTeams is fully responsible
for hosting all Moon Society services at no cost to the Moon Society
Strangelv-3: 1a: The Moon Society helps CyberTeams pay for better dedicated
hosting than Xisp. Strangelv-3: 1b: Same as #1 with confirmation involving
the nature of the recent service outage Strangelv-3: 2: The public web site
is moved to new hosting while the secure web site, Team Director, and the
rest remain with CyberTeams at no cost to the Moon Society. Strangelv-3:
2a: The public web site is rapidly boved to new hosting, while we maintain
things with CyberTeams until we can sort through the issues. In essense,
this is a leap, then look implementation of #3. Strangelv-3: 3: We move
everything to a new server with a new provider. We will probably need to
formally licence all CyberTeams software. Strangelv-3 says, "The presence
of astronauts may send the wrong messaeg, thugh" Strangelv-3 says, "WE'rle
not about NASA" Lunadyne says, "Not enthusiastic about yet more Apollo
stuff. I'd rather have ambiguous figures that could be commercial types."
Philip [Guest] says, "But I digress... back to the server discussion."
Rose/Miros says, "however, that was the end of the space race. we don't
want a race, we want settlement and growth" Lunadyne says, "No, it's part
of the overall website discussion. MOOs are a bit chaotic." alanzaldua
says, "I agree with Rose. " Rose/Miros says, "i guess i needto keep calling
randall until i filll up his voice mail and he has to return my call to
reclaim his voicemail" Rose/Miros says, "i hate doing that" Philip [Guest]
says, "Okay. I'd say have a photoshop contest with the members. Tell them
what it would be used for, and give a general guidance that we'd like to
make a bold statement of where we want to be in 100 years." Lunadyne says,
"Option 3: Move everything to a new server. A big jump, and we'd have to
replace a lot of the fucntionality with new things if CyberTeams software
is expensive." Rose/Miros says, "that's one of the things i need to talk to
randall about" Strangelv-3 says, "3B replacing all CybeTeams software?
That's a big ouch." Strangelv-3 says, "or 3A" Lunadyne says, "I'd say 25-50
years out. There are a lot of Millenials we need to sell on the virtues of
the Moon by making it relevant to their ambitions." alanzaldua says, "It
seems we can't get to a decision without talking to Randall. " Scottyg
says, "Rose, do you use Yahoo IM?" Rose/Miros says, "yeah, anyone got any
ideas for nailing him down short of driving to maryland, which i can't do
right now" Scottyg says, "Randall is on IM." Strangelv-3 says, "Does anyone
have Dare's number? Would we have Dale contact Randall for us?" Rose/Miros
says, "i have one, but not on this machine" Rose/Miros is drawing ablank on
dale? Strangelv-3 looks at Scotty pjbanyai says, "Rose is still not a
current member." dcarson says, "ranadllsevery on AIM" Strangelv-3 says,
"Dale Amon" Rose/Miros says, "ahh" dcarson says, "randallsevery" Lunadyne
says, "Al, now you understand why I'm inclined to move our website from a
"friends and family" plan to a more professional "we pay you money, serve
us" plan." Rose/Miros says, "dale could give randall a poke or 5 to call
me" Strangelv-3 hasn't been on IM since jabber.asi.org went down for the
final time alanzaldua says, "I'm getting the idea...." Rose/Miros says,
"aim or yim?" dcarson says, "aim" Rose/Miros says, "ok, will fire it up
tomorrow and annoy him immensely" dcarson says, "Cyberteams has hosted
quite well for many years" Scottyg says, "Hmm. He's also on yim." Lunadyne
says, "Honestly, I think #2 gives us the quickest response, and allows time
for disentanglement as necessary. #3 seems a bit abrupt, and would feel
like burning bridges. But I'm too frustrated with our website to favor #1.
That's my polling." kokhmmm says, "Phill, Ken, emailed you the "end of the
beginning" image i just mentioned" Rose/Miros says, "well, i'm on the linux
machine, so i can't fire up an im client from here" Rose/Miros says, "has
to at least wait til after the meeting" Strangelv-3 says, "That was under
Pair. There was also the complication that FreeBSD 4 was a museum piece
already half a dozen years ago. It's why we have a DreamHost account (which
belongs to Mike Delaney) for the wikis." Philip [Guest] says, "Rose, you
might be able to use Pidgin" Strangelv-3 says, "a fuzzy version of 2a?"
Scottyg-1 has arrived. Lunadyne says, "Okay, option #1. Where does everyone
stand?" Philip [Guest] says, "So to recap...." Rose/Miros says, "i'm not in
the mood to experiment with software when i have an xp machine against my
knee that i can't use at the moment because i need to see the meeting"
Rose/Miros says, "james, recap?" Strangelv-3 says, "My take is that 1 is a
lot risker than it was before the migration from pb7 to server.cyberteams"
Strangelv-3 says, "I teed to add to the recap standby" Rose/Miros says,
"there's also an issue about drupal increasing the load on the server"
Strangelv-3: 1: Maintain the status quo: CyberTeams is fully responsible
for hosting all Moon Society services at no cost to the Moon Society
Strangelv-3: 1a: The Moon Society helps CyberTeams pay for better dedicated
hosting than Xisp. Strangelv-3: 1b: Same as #1 with confirmation involving
the nature of the recent service outage Strangelv-3: 2: The public web site
is moved to new hosting while the secure web site, Team Director, and the
rest remain with CyberTeams at no cost to the Moon Society. Strangelv-3:
2a: The public web site is rapidly boved to new hosting, while we maintain
things with CyberTeams until we can sort through the issues. In essense,
this is a leap, then look implementation of #3. Strangelv-3: 3: We move
everything to a new server with a new provider. We will probably need to
formally licence all CyberTeams software. Strangelv-3: 3a: we replace all
CyberTeams software with new software on a new hosting provider. Scottyg-1
says, "Rose, Randall's yim id is rsevery" Strangelv-3 says, "2b: somewhere
between 2 and 2a" Lunadyne says, "James, good recap." Lunadyne says, "It
doesn't sound like there's much comment on #1." AlanSteinberg says, "Just
for clarification, why do we need ne CyberTeams/Team Director?" Philip
[Guest] says, "Rose is the web director correct? " Rose/Miros says, "we've
had lots of comment on #1" Lunadyne says, "Alan, because the website is so
deeply embedded in their software structure." Lunadyne says, "Rose, not
since I asked "Okay, option #1. Where does everyone stand?"" Strangelv-3
says, "teamDirector is our core infrastructure" alanzaldua says, "I'm
leaning twoish. " Rose/Miros says, "we need team dir for the team content,
and if the team content is moved, we still need team dir to controll
access" AlanSteinberg says, "and why do we need content with controlled
access?" Rose/Miros says, "#1 is the easiest, but there's still issues"
Strangelv-3 says, "I woryr about 1 after the move to Xisp, also I woryr
about CyberTeams' stability" AlanSteinberg says, "I'm not trying to be
difficult, but I thought we wanted to re-design and simplify... it doesn't
sound like any of these options actually do that" Rose/Miros says, "because
when a "team" of people are working on a project, they need privacy"
Strangelv-3 says, "#1 is our default: do nothing" Lunadyne says, "Okay, how
much Team content do we really have? The membership rolls. We don't really
have any actual projects going on at the moment." Scottyg-1 says, "Alan,
Team Director is where our membership database resides. Anything that needs
any kind of information about members (such as usernames, passwords and
what they are authorized to do relies on Team Director for that
information." Rose/Miros says, "we dont' want some kid using some half
baked content in his school project and getting laughed out of class for
it" AlanSteinberg says, "1) why do they need privacy? 2) assuming they
do... why do they need a private aspect of the website to do it? " pjbanyai
says, "REMINDER ROSE DOES NOT CURRENTLY HAVE ACCESS TO WSD or TEAMDIR. HER
MEMBERSHIP IS STILL EXPIRED!!!" Rose/Miros remembers how to use WSD, she
wass a SimsHost webmaster Strangelv-3 says, "Fixig TeamDirector to not
inflict that upon us is a different action item" AlanSteinberg says, "I go
back to that "why do we need log ins and what not on the website?" question
I possed a meeting or two back" Strangelv-3 says, "Once upon a time the
majority of the board actually believed tdhat was a good idea..."
Strangelv-3 can't explain, let alone defend this viewpoint Philip [Guest]
says, "I'm kind of leaning towards 2a" Rose/Miros says, "alan, could you
come discuss this in the commons when i'm a little less focused on how and
can bother to think about why?" Rose/Miros says, "i'm thinking 2a as well"
AlanSteinberg says, "sure... or we could have a phone call about it... that
would be eaiser if it's just the two of us" alanzaldua says, "ditto 2a"
Scottyg-1 [to avoid]: the fiascos that many people have had with completely
open access. Including in some cases us in some of the social media.
Strangelv-3 is thinking more in the direction of 2b, but is largely
undecided Rose/Miros says, "well, 2ish" Philip [Guest] says, "We can get
the new site up and running, and then once we're in a more comfortable
place, look to upgrade to a more user friendly system" Strangelv-3 says,
"fiascos like some of our preliminary drawings being used to make us a
laughingstock at Slashdot+" Strangelv-3 says, "...?" Rose/Miros says,
"exactly" Rose/Miros says, "no one gets taughed at" Rose/Miros says, "us or
a little kid using our stuff for a school project" Rose/Miros says,
"although the second is actually educational" Strangelv-3 says, "Smoe of
our preliminary drawings look like the kid's school project" Lunadyne says,
"The consensus seems to be coalescing in the 2-ish region." Lunadyne says,
"What was the /. thing?" Rose/Miros says, "i learned to argue with teachers
in anatomy & physiology, because the teacher was WRONG quite a few times
and I learned to say so" Lunadyne says, "What Slashdot thing?" Strangelv-3
says, "I don't remember where the drawing was located, and I don't remember
most of it. i could also be confusing that embarassment with a different
one" Strangelv-3 says, "This was awhile ago. TransOrbital was attracting
more attention to us than we presently have" Rose/Miros says, "at any
rate,no embarasments, no laughing, etc" Rose/Miros says, "which means stuff
under development stays behind passwords" AlanSteinberg says, "... and why
do we need stuff under development on the web in the first place?"
Rose/Miros says, "lets just mail paper copies around?" Philip [Guest] says,
"lol" Lunadyne says, "How much more functionality do we need above and
beyond an e-mail list for any individual project? Websites normally allow
for posts to be public or private." AlanSteinberg says, "e-mail"
Strangelv-3 says, "Collaboration. To be suer, with a new team structuer we
could use a different solution with a larger developer pool than
TeamDirector." Chard-1 has disconnected. The housekeeper arrives to remove
Chard-1. Lunadyne says, "I'm trying to understand how the solution is much
more complicated than an e-mail list." Philip [Guest] says, "My view is
that we can probably get away with using a free/cheap system for now but
then we need to look to the future in projecting ourselves in a
professional way" Rose/Miros says, "again, can we discuss why in the
commons at a later date?" Strangelv-3 says, "email lists have problems.
People can't handle large attachment,s they get stripped, they get 100+
emails a day and can't keep up wtith anything by email, et c."
AlanSteinberg says, "Things can be shared via e-mail or individual
groups/teams/etc can use whatever structure best suits that individual
team... i don't see why the website needs to support that... the website
instead could just be used to publicise the projects and thus what goes on
the web is controlled" Philip [Guest] says, "i personally hate e-mail"
Strangelv-3 says, "Something similar to our very own social network system"
pjbanyai says, "By the way I believe the vnl.com dns we currently use along
with cyberteams refers to another spinoff of the Lunar Resources Company."
AlanSteinberg says, "Well... the "why" defines the way we move forward with
the decision at hand" Lunadyne says, "Okay, we've chewed up another hour
talking about this stuff, but I think we've made some progress. The general
consensus seems to be that we throw up a new public website quickly for
smartphones and such, and then start migrating fucntionality to the new
structure. " Rose/Miros says, "moon.lunarpedia.org candidate for the "dark"
theme with the replacement of the top graphicwith a lunarscape" Lunadyne
says, "Paul has identified several hosting services, and there also seems
to be consensus that drupal is likely what we'll use going forward."
Strangelv-3 says, "This wouldn't need to be the moonsociety.org site where
the team stuff is located" kokhmmm says, "I think the MOO is better than
email. You see all the posts on the same screen. " Strangelv-3 says, "Also,
if the teams want to spill their prverbial guts about something, there's
Lunarpedia" Rose/Miros says, "pual, could you email the hosting service
links to miros1@iwon.com ?" alanzaldua says, "I agree with Ken above. "
Rose/Miros says, "since i only managed to catch one or two of them" dcarson
says, "a wiki with a doorguard can work for collabaration" Strangelv-3
would like to quickly paste his wiki report before someone says the A word
Lunadyne says, "Last week, I e-mailed around a basic menu structure for the
website, which elicited an underwhelming amount of discussion, but in the
absence of any other proposals we use it as an initial framework for
building out the content on the new site." pjbanyai says, "
http://www.thinkhost.com/socialchange/free-hosting.shtml and
http://www.grassroots.org/services/free-website-hosting." Rose/Miros says,
"ok, i'll find it in my spam trap of an inbox" Strangelv-3 is unable to
keep up with email alanzaldua says, "I need to leave the meeting. Do we
have concensus?" kokhmmm says, "email isn't live. MOO is." Strangelv-3
says, "Do we need any motions?" Rose/Miros says, "um, james has awiki
report" Strangelv-3 says, "Onec Al takes off we no longer have quorum if i
correctyl understand" Lunadyne says, "It was sent to leaders back on 09/10
under "Website Discussion" IIRC I cc:ed you." Rose/Miros says, "i'm sure i
got it, it's just mired in spam" alanzaldua says, "OK, I'll hang in a bit
longer, but let's make a decision, please. " Strangelv-3's email deluge is
all legitimate stuff that he should be theoretically reading all of
Lunadyne says, "No, we don't need any motions yet. I want the consensus to
continue to gestate around the #2 options." Scottyg says, "Ken, have you
looked at any of our private repositories? Like /private/leaders or
/private/board?" pjbanyai says, "There used to be other nonprofit providers
but they either closed down or stopped accepting new applications."
Lunadyne says, "We do need a motion to adjourn, since we're past time."
Strangelv-3 says, "Wikis report" Strangelv-3 says, "I finally identified
and resolved a problem with Marspedia. When saving or previewing an edit to
a page, the page would frequently get replaced with a mess of garbage links
with the wiki template overlaid on top of it. This was resolved by
replacing the main php files with a set of the same revision from
Exodictionary." Strangelv-3 says, "This may be the issue that James Burk
has been attempting to communicate with us, and going by the date stanp has
been going on since at least May, possibly earlier." Strangelv-3 says, "We
have a bot that automatically patrols the wikis for garbage posts that it
can recognize as such and ban the offending account and delete all of the
articles it's posted. As of arly this morning it is no longer thwarted by
Unicode characters in account and article names." Strangelv-3 says, "end
report" dcarson says, "thanks" pjbanyai says, "THIRD REMINDER ROSE DOES NOT
CURRENTLY HAVE ACCESS TO WSD or TEAMDIR. HER MEMBERSHIP IS STILL
EXPIRED!!!" Rose/Miros says, "and it ditches non-english crap" Scottyg
says, "Paul, what is your point?" Rose/Miros says, "pj, i can deal without
it" Lunadyne says, "Did we not vote to grant her a one year membership for
her work on the website?" Strangelv-3 says, "Most of what Rose has been
doing with collaborateve effort has been in the MOO" Strangelv-3 does't
remember Philip [Guest] says, "We did." kokhmmm says, "Yes we did so vote.
And did we not do the same for Mike Delaney?" Scottyg says, "I'm not aware
of that Ken. But was anyone assigned the action item to "make it happen"?"
Lunadyne says, "If need be I can call another vote on the matter, but we're
past time." Rose/Miros says, "long term i'llneed it, especially if we want
to port any pages in those areas" Rose/Miros says, "but i'll get excited
then,i really don't need you to get excited on my part, ok?" dcarson says,
"Scotty can you do it?" Rose/Miros says, "don't think you did for
mikedelaney, and i can't g et a straigh t answer from him if he wants to
continute at listmaster" Rose/Miros says, "although we do need someone t o
be the listmaster" Lunadyne says, "Sorry Scotty. May I please have an
action item where Rose is set up with a one-year membership, however that'"
Lunadyne says, ";s done in the system." Scottyg says, "Yes I can, but I
can't take care of things I'm not aware of. Perhaps I missed the meeting
where that was decided." Scottyg says, "And how about Mike D?" Lunadyne
says, "I need to figure out how to send these logs around." pjbanyai says,
"We did vote to give her a year of membership. I think that was August 15."
Rose/Miros says, "i don't remember you here, so everyone assumed someone
else was doing it" Lunadyne says, "Paul, sounds about right." Strangelv-3
is unabe to motion to do the same for Mike, but agrees it would be highly
appropirate -- espegcialyl with his paying for an account to host the wikis
pjbanyai says, " Lunadyne says, "All in favor of allocating $35 from the
Treasury to pay for a one-year membership for Rose (with a one-year
extension option), please say aye."" pjbanyai <- On recorder> Rose/Miros
says, "we do need a listmaster, mike used to be tweaking the lists all the
time" pjbanyai <- On recorder> Lunadyne says, "Aye" pjbanyai <- On
recorder> dcarson says, "aye" pjbanyai <- On recorder> kokhmmm says, "aye"
pjbanyai <- On recorder> lesausl says, "aye\" pjbanyai <- On recorder>
AlanSteinberg says, "well Ken, you don't even have to do that... since it's
the Treasury paying itself" pjbanyai <- On recorder> Lunadyne says, "Just
wanted it to be clear what we're doing." pjbanyai <- On recorder>
AlanSteinberg says, "but sure... in order to move things forward for now
"aye"" pjbanyai <- On recorder> Rose/Miros says, "but it has to percolate
through the system or things don't get activated properly" pjbanyai <- On
recorder> Lunadyne says, "Okay, Rose, welcome aboard. You have the floor."
Lunadyne says, "Okay, quarter after the hour. Let's talk about Mike next
week." kokhmmm says, "aye" Rose/Miros says, "ok, i and i will get an answer
froommike somehow" alanzaldua says, "aye. " Philip [Guest] says, "PJ, it's
in the log of August 15" kokhmmm says, "Goodnight all" Philip [Guest] says,
"Aye" Rose/Miros says, "we see that" dcarson says, "aye" kokhmmm has
disconnected. Lunadyne says, "Meeting adjourned" Scottyg says, "Ken,
there's no need to allocate money. I can do a complimentary membership
through the back end." Lunadyne says, "Scotty - just crossing my i'"
Rose/Miros says, "lol, i figured there was an easier way" Lunadyne says, "s
and dotting my ts." alanzaldua says, "I make a motion to adjourn. " dcarson
says, "move to adjourn" Scottyg says, "Ok, I'll take care of Rose." Philip
[Guest] says, "Did we reach consensus regarding the website?" Rose/Miros
says, "soctty, before you do mike, stop in the commons and see if james and
i have got an answer frommike about listmaster" pjbanyai says, "I believe
she should be listed as a Support type of membership." Rose/Miros says,
"2-ish" Lunadyne says, "No, we're going to look more closely at #2, #2a,
and #2b. " alanzaldua says, "Right." Strangelv-3 would suggest giving MIke
a year anyway simply because of his role with the wikis Rose/Miros says,
"and i'llannoy randall til i get someanswers" Rose/Miros says, "although i
hate doing that " pjbanyai says, "Membership Type " Lunadyne says, ""Rose,
can you look at webhosting for the next meeting?" Rose/Miros says, "yes, i
will" Rose/Miros says, "mike is tabled until next meeting" pjbanyai says,
"Membership Type :Team - general membership :Founder - one of the ASI
founders :Support - a Supporter/Sponsor of ASI who donates services or
products to ASI :Courtesy - a complimentary membership provided to certain
groups such as the press, science fiction and space organizations, etc.
:Life - the member has paid for, or been provided with, a life membership
in ASI. " Lunadyne says, "Everyone else - please revisit the Website
Discussion e-mail from back on the 10th and think about the menus."
alanzaldua says, "OK" Rose/Miros says, "or come to the moo and i'll
implement them as we chat" dcarson says, "ok" Lunadyne says, "I also want
to move away from ASI." Lunadyne says, "They're defunct, we need our own
identity." Scottyg says, "Paul, I think Complimentary best fits the
situation. I can also leave her as a Team member and just change Expiration
Date and Status." Rose/Miros says, "i don't want to throw away the asi data
book, it needs clean up, which means man hours" Scottyg says, "Rose, what's
your last name?" Rose/Miros says, "Dieteman" pjbanyai says, "I grabbed the
Membership types from the teamdir Tutorial" Rose/Miros says, "should be in
there" Strangelv-3 says, "Is it even legally possible for us to do anything
with the ADB, though?" Rose/Miros says, "that's another action item"
dcarson says, "is all public data" Rose/Miros says, "remind me tomorrow,
ok?" The housekeeper arrives to cart kokhmmm off to bed. Strangelv-3 says,
"We might need to find some way to force a quorum of the ASI board together
so they can act for us..." dcarson says, "facts ca't be copyrighted"
Strangelv-3 says, "A lot of that's not facts, but ideas" dcarson says, "we
should vote on the motion to adjourn" Strangelv-3 says, "We could reference
it in articles in Lunarpedia" Rose/Miros says, "there's alsosomenoe'santi
diana bias" Lunadyne says, "James, that might be an interesting project -
have them vote to turn over all of their assets to us." alanzaldua says, "I
made a motion to adjourn. " Rose/Miros says, "or at least the adb"
Strangelv-3 didn't see anyone actually make the motion to adjourn, only
someone who can't make it say we needed to do it Rose/Miros says, "i second
the motion!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Strangelv-3 says, "Okay, theer's one" Philip
[Guest] says, "Second the motion" Lunadyne says, "I thought everyone
already aye'd that?" dcarson says, "no" dcarson says, "aye" Scottyg says,
"Ok Rose, you're now a member." Strangelv-3 claps. Philip [Guest] says,
"claps" Rose/Miros says, "we were aye-ing the 2-ish concensus" Scottyg
says, "aye" alanzaldua says, "Good night while clapping." alanzaldua says,
"@quit" Lunadyne says, "Okay, we got the motion. I n favor og
adjournm,netn/" Philip [Guest] says, "i thought we were ayeing giving rose
membership" Rose/Miros says, "aye" Rose/Miros says, "no, that was last
month" Lunadyne says, "Aye" alanzaldua has disconnected. Philip [Guest]
says, "Is the meeting adjourned?" Strangelv-3 isn't exactylsure either
Lunadyne says, "Yes, meeting adjourned. Again." Lunadyne says, "Night all.
Off to stuff bags for this weekend." Lunadyne has disconnected. Philip
[Guest] says, "Can who ever has password authority e-mail me? Now that I
finally got on, I'd like to sign on next time the regular way" Philip
[Guest] says, "Night all" Philip [Guest] has disconnected. The housekeeper
arrives to remove Philip [Guest]. AlanSteinberg has disconnected. pjbanyai
says, "The Following sites define ASI's relationship to the LRC
http://www.asi.org/adb/06/02/asi-charter.html and
http://www.asi.org/adb/06/02/asi-bylaws.html." Scottyg says, "Philip, Dana
can do that." Rose/Miros says, "while i've got you here, scotty, i have a
question" Scottyg says, "Shoot." Rose/Miros says, "how hard woudl it be to
add a code field to the membership form and data base" Scottyg says, "I get
404 error on http://www.asi.org/adb/06/02/asi-bylaws.html." Rose/Miros
says, "so we can put a code on the brochures we hand out, and people can
type it in" Rose/Miros says, "take the period off the end" Rose/Miros says,
"maybe 5 characters or so?" Rose/Miros says, "we need to track that more
formally, so we know which events to repeat from year to year" The
housekeeper arrives to cart alanzaldua off to bed. Rose/Miros has been
asking this since before she joined way back when Scottyg says, "Its not a
problem. Most of the work is editing the php that creates the registration
pages." Strangelv-3 clicks on 11. Action Without Meeting; Correspondence
and wonders if registered mail would work for prodding some people into
taking long overdue actions dcarson says, "Rose,
http://history.nasa.gov/SP-168/p89a.jpg" Rose/Miros says, "that's a good
one, I can crop it, etc. to fit my needs" The housekeeper arrives to cart
Lunadyne off to bed. dcarson says, "
http://history.nasa.gov/SP-168/section2b.htm" Scottyg says, "If we want to
be able to search the data base on that field, it should be an option form
so the field is populated with well-controlled (ie searchable) data." The
housekeeper arrives to cart AlanSteinberg off to bed. pjbanyai says, "PHP
has not been working well with the new host server. Our blog is still down
and pages with php may have errors pointed out at the top of the page."
Rose/Miros says, "well, the default would hav eto be blank, since there are
hundreds of old records" Scottyg says, "Paul, the default options for php
have changed. As a result numerous things that were common coding practice
in php now produce warnings or outright errors." dcarson says, "we were
several versions of php behind because pair had grandfathered our server
and didn't update the sw" Strangelv-3 says, "Were we running anything with
php5 before the migration away from pb7 last year?" Rose/Miros says,
"scotty, want to think about that, and discuss in the moo tomorrow night,
briefly?" Scottyg says, "Yes." Rose/Miros finally founjd the person to
implement this code thing Scottyg says, "Blank should even be an option
when the field is supported. Some members may find their way to us without
a promotion." dcarson says, "very true" dcarson says, "ability to put links
of the form blah../registration/IDCODE so we know which sites they come
from is good also" Scottyg says, "Rose, I don't think I'm available
tomorrow night. My granddaughter is in the hospital and we plan to visit
her." dcarson says, "where IDCODE get filled in in that spot" Rose/Miros
says, "ok, anytime then" Strangelv-3 says, "Now that i remember, MySQL was
why we couldn't even run Mediawiki 1.6 wholly on pb7. We had most of it on
pb7 and the database on a server in Belgium for our first implementation
IIRC..." dcarson says, "hope she is out soon" Strangelv-3 says, "It ran a
little... ...slowly." Strangelv-3 says, "What happened, Dana" Scottyg says,
"Yes. it would with a web interface to the db." pjbanyai says, "Scotty
could you also give Rose admin access." Rose/Miros says, "lol, now that i
know to ask scotty for these things, we cansort ofask as we need them"
Rose/Miros says, "(my spacebar is still broken, but slightly improved)"
Scottyg says, "She was born (12 years ago) with a heart defect. She had two
surgeries as an infant to implement a work-around. But she outgrew the
work-around so she needed an upgrade." dcarson says, "scary but something
the docs know what to do" Rose/Miros says, "and now she'sbig enough that
the doctor cange t his fat fingers in there to fix things" Scottyg says,
"LOL - yep its probably easier now." Scottyg says, "Paul, admin access
where?" Scottyg says, "Team Director or WSD?" Strangelv-3 says, "erk. I
hope it goes well, and I'm glad it wasn't unexpected. Is this going to be
good enough from now on or is more work needed?" Scottyg says, "Nobody paid
much attention to my comments about too much power invested in too few
people. But it worries me somewhat." Scottyg says, "We hope this will be
the last iteration." Strangelv-3 says, "Q: How do we minimize too much
power with too few people when we don't have a very big pool of people to
start with?" Strangelv-3 says, "One thing I've seen in a few places is to
have a judicial committee" pjbanyai says, "I placed Facebook Insight
metatags in /home-page/head/head-test.html. Unfortunately Facebook insights
will only work if we also fave a facebook app in addition to a page."
Strangelv-3 says, "The Judicial committee onyl convenes when there's a
problem" Strangelv-3 says, "...and has the power to say that someone or
some board or committee or team overstepped its authority and overturn the
decision" Rose/Miros says, "like dana has the authority to do things, but
not th eknowledge, and i've moved twice since i had the knowledge andforgot
it and lost my notes................" Scottyg says, "I don't know. But as
an example of what I'm saying, first I wrote and maintain the code for the
registration system." Scottyg says, "Second, I check the PO Box for mail-in
registrations, enter those into the system, make out the deposit slip, and
take the checks to the bank." Rose/Miros says, "which i didn't know, but
should have figured out.... so i couldn't ask the 'right' person to get the
job done" Strangelv-3 says, "Institutional knowledge in too few hands is a
bit of a worry... plus only Dana and Randall have fu0ll wizard access in
the MOO, and the onyl partial wizard I know of was Greg" Rose/Miros pokes
at Strangelv-3. Rose/Miros says, "guess who's the moonsims admin"
Strangelv-3 says, "if I could drive i could theoretically help with that,
but I'm largely confined to a radius not much bigger in diameter than a
mile of my house" Rose/Miros says, "i've just lost my notes" Scottyg says,
"I could easily embezzle Society funds and trick up the registration system
to hide the problem." Strangelv-3 says, "But how much of that is wizard and
how much applies to ASI MOO?" Rose/Miros says, "same commands" Scottyg
says, "Too much power in one place with little in the way of checks and
balances." dcarson says, "I worry about too concentrated power but the main
solution is more people" Rose/Miros says, "dana could have fixed tricia's
problem if i'd had my old notes with the commands on them" Strangelv-3
says, "Point taken. This is a problem with neding a physical address for an
organization that effectively exists entirely on the Internet" Rose/Miros
says, "wouldn't have been fixed quite right, but it would have been fixed
as far as she could tell" Strangelv-3 says, "What was the problem?"
Rose/Miros says, "she couldn't log in" Strangelv-3 says, "under the hood,
not the symptom" Rose/Miros says, "that i'm not quite sure" Rose/Miros
says, "but we could have fixed the symptom, and made her happy" dcarson
says, "one SF club both money people were related, they had a family crisis
and things got neglacted" Rose/Miros says, "seen that on sims boards too"
dcarson says, "lost a storage unit full of stuff that they used for the
local con when it got auctioned" Strangelv-3 says, "eeeeeeep" dcarson says,
"at least Scotty and I aren't connected in what causes a crisis"
Strangelv-3 has grown to dislike storage units forl this very reason
Rose/Miros says, "well, you have a garage now" pjbanyai says, "She will
probably need admin acces with both Teamdir and WSD. Teamdir System
Administration deals with access to the database and server linking.
Currently WSD admin access is essential for most work with the website. I
don't know if there is WSD express admin access. I have found some problems
with WSD Express such as Team Leaders not necessarily have full control
over their team page. At least one team Solar Power Beaming Demo is not
accepting new members because of an error with WSD Express." Strangelv-3
says, "Which is already full" Rose/Miros says, "kiss lost astorage unit
full of old stage gear including costumes when they changed management.
somehow gene and paul convinced a judge that it shouldn't have been
auctioned,so they walked into a con and confiscated it back" Strangelv-3
says, "This might argue for migrating to new software solutions" dcarson
says, "BSFS to local SF group owns it own clubhouse so currently storage
they have" Strangelv-3 says, "At least that stuff fell into better hands
than a lot of storge unit stuff" Rose/Miros says, "yeah, i'm not sure i'm
competent to even try to fix most of those issues" dcarson says, "but they
are one of 3 clubs that can afford that" dcarson says, "3 in the US"
Strangelv-3 says, "ie sift through, pull out four things, and throw the
rest into a dumpster, never to be seen again -- ever." Rose/Miros says,
"bill aucoin needed to learn to scale back when the big money stopped
rolling in" pjbanyai says, "In case it was not clear, I meant Rose will
probably need admin acces with both Teamdir and WSD." Rose/Miros says,
"event ually, yes" Rose/Miros says, "but now i know the man with the magic
passwords is scotty, i can just ask him" Scottyg says, "Rose, I need a
username and password to set you up as an admin in Team Director. Can you
whisper those to me?" Rose/Miros says, "potty break" Rose/Miros says, "i'm
thinking i need to make a drupal vs wsd comparison page, james, can you
collabora te sometime tomorrow?" Strangelv-3 notices that the recorder is
still running Scottyg says, "Rosalie DietemanRose, what email address do
you want associated with that?" Scottyg says, "LOL." Scottyg says, "Rose,
what email address do you want associated with that?" Scottyg says, "(Your
admin access)" Rose/Miros says, "miros1@iwon.com" Rose/Miros says, "and i
activated your moon.lunarpedia.org account and made you a contributor"
dcarson says, "found the moo code to interface with TeamDir" Rose/Miros
says, "that's how you fixed tricia?" Rose/Miros says, "cool" dcarson says,
"GET " + this.program_url + "?Command=FINDMEMBER&Username=" + username"
Rose/Miros says, "mike suspects that's been broken for ages" dcarson says,
"is the url to get a list of members with a given name" dcarson says, "GET
" + this.program_url + "?Command=TEAMMEMBERSHIP&Member=" + tostr(member)"
dcarson says, "gets a list of teams a member belongs to " Rose/Miros says,
"um, do i need to know this?" dcarson says, "not really, just showing the
sort of things PHP will need to do, as you see fairly simple webget and
parse the result" Rose/Miros says, "ahh" Rose/Miros says, "so that's the
gust of what we'd need for a drupal module to access team dir?" Rose/Miros
says, "guts" Scottyg says, "Ok Rose, log into Team Director and let's see
if I did this right." pjbanyai says, "Rose you already have a wsd account.
So I can update your permissions. WSD has Workflow Group Memberships which
are supposed to define a members permissions for submitting new pages or
editing pages. unfortunately these memberships must be manually added by a
WSD admin instead of being automatically linked to a teamdir team. This is
a leading reason why the webteam failed to work succesfully. Members did
not have the access permissions to actually maintain the website." Scottyg
says, "http://www.moonsociety.org/cgi-bin/teamdir/teamdir?_JavaScript=Yes&"
dcarson says, "yep" Rose/Miros says, "yep, it worked" Scottyg says, "You
should now have on the Login: line a choice of Administrator and Member.
Click the Admin button." Scottyg says, "Then you can see and do anything
you want" dcarson waits for the evil laugh from Rose Rose/Miros says, "what
dana and I are cooking up, people will ge t added via team dir and the
drupal website will reflect any change in status, right dana?" Rose/Miros
says, "added to teams" Scottyg says, "There IS one technical difficulty."
dcarson says, "I can get a list of teams they belong to, need a module to
convert that to roles, having the names match should make that easy"
Rose/Miros says, "so i'll do it that way" Scottyg says, "Admin users use
the Unix password scheme (Actually the Apache htpassword scheme) for
access. The only record of the password is in the Apache access control
file and that is one-way encrypted." Rose/Miros says, "existing teams will
keep their names, new teams will be told to choose their namescarefully"
Scottyg says, "In other words, I can't get their passwords back in plain
language." Rose/Miros says, "so you encrypt what the person typed and
compare it to the encrypted password?" Scottyg says, "For import into
Drupal." Scottyg says, "Yep." Rose/Miros says, "we'll figure something out,
never fear" Scottyg says, "So we may need to modify the Drupal access
control to emulate that." Rose/Miros says, "ok, i really need that pott y
break now, and the left side of my monitor is blurry" Scottyg says, "That
problem only exists for Admin users. Regular users have their passwords
stored in the database." Rose/Miros says, "so i'll play with team dir
tomorrow when my monitor is more awake" Scottyg says, "LOL. Its about
bedtime for me too." Rose/Miros says, "it really is the monitor, not the
eyeballs" dcarson says, "not yet but I do need to go to bed earlier since I
have grandkids in the morning" pjbanyai says, "Rose you are now the Team
Leader of the Web Team." Scottyg says, "Go potty. I wouldn't want to be
responsible for an accident." Rose/Miros says, "dana, you got the gist of
what scotty said about admin passwords vs user passwords?" dcarson says,
"yep" Rose/Miros says, "have you looked at access control modules yet?"
Rose/Miros says, "thanks pj" dcarson says, "not really" Rose/Miros says,
"ok,w e'll talk tomorrow" Rose/Miros says, "and i'll nag randall" dcarson
says, "worde comes to worse if it fails we tell them the teamdir doesn't
match the drupal, pleas update it" Rose/Miros says, "i think that will
work" dcarson says, "people that have drupal only accounts will never touch
teamdir, people that know of both would be the only problem" dcarson says,
"when they change under drupal we update the teamdir via the api" Scottyg
says, "Dana, I have php code somewhere to generate an encrypted password
from a plain language one." Scottyg says, "That can be compared against a
Team Director access control file." Rose/Miros says, "so we check the filre
first to see if we need to check the password against team director, ok"
dcarson says, "email it to me please" Rose/Miros says, "he said somewhere,
i assume there's a search in progress?" Scottyg says, "It may take me a
little while to find it. It buried in my SimsHost archive." Rose/Miros
says, "lol, t he dreaded SH code" Scottyg says, "Yep - it was used to
create the access control files for downloading on SimsHost." Rose/Miros
says, "so it'sbeen stresstested" Scottyg says, "Thoroughly." Rose/Miros
says, "by some of the most demanding barely computer literate people on
earth" Scottyg says, "The last time I made a count, there were over 6
million download records. Eqach one used those files." dcarson says,
"alt.sysadmin.recovery had some doozy stories about users, in fact that was
the purpose" dcarson says, "a moderated newsgroup with no moderator"
Scottyg says, "Ok, I'm off to bed. G'nite all!" Scottyg says, "Oh - BTW -
Team Director admin access is not tied to membership in any way. So admin
access does not expire if your membership lapses." Scottyg has
disconnected. 
-- End log: Thursday, September 20, 2012 12:35:24 am ASI Meeting Server time --