-- Start log: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 9:03:06 pm ASI Meeting Server time -- 
Rose/Miros says, "started" Scottyg says, "I would start it but I've
used up all my quota." Rose/Miros says, "dana and i are working on a
solution" Chard has disconnected. Lunadyne says, "Okay, let's try that
again. Membership report: 175 members as of now." Chard has connected.
Chard says, "ok" Chard says, "this is a little better" kokhmmm says,
"NMembership packet mailings up to date" Lunadyne says, "The membership is
trending in the right direction, but we have to keep plugging away at it.
Getting a new website up will help enormously." Rose/Miros says, "which is
my cue, i assume" Lunadyne says, "We also need to raise the visibility of
the organization by getting " Lunadyne says, "Not yet Rose." dcarson shines
spotlight on Rose kokhmmm says, "Well, I don't "capiche" on the website
stuff so lets do the editors report first" Lunadyne says, "By getting some
publications out there. Editorials, blog posts, journal articles, what have
you." kokhmmm says, "Then I will retire for the night." dcarson says,
"don't know how mant get the facebook weeklt report on our page" dcarson
says, "New Likes" dcarson says, "Talking About This" dcarson says, "Weekly
Total Reach" dcarson says, "8" dcarson says, "135 +26.2%" dcarson says,
"4,366 +84.1%" dcarson says, "usually is up" Chard says, "Yes, I somehow am
getting it too - to my real emal \il address" Lunadyne says, "Our Facebook
is doing well." Chard says, "which is disturbing" Lunadyne says, "My goal
is to get more likes than NSS." Rose/Miros says, "dig through your facebook
profile, it's got to be there somewhere" Lunadyne says, "We're only a
couple hundred away, so may overtake them by the end of next year."
Strangelv-2 suspects beating the NSS in a great many things is a lower
hangingc frluit than he wants to believe is possible Rose/Miros says, "so i
should not let Angelita join NSS?" Lunadyne says, "On that note - I got a
call from Mark Hopkins. He left a message about a possible job with NSS
HQ." kokhmmm says, "Ken do you check the other organizations facebook
stats? Mars Society, ExploreMars.org, Openluna, etc?" Lunadyne says, "Rose,
joining NSS and getting involved locally is a great thing. NSS of North
Texas is doing wonderful stuff in the D/FW metroplex." Lunadyne says, "Moon
Days, toy drives, science fair scholarships, and more." Rose/Miros says,
"um, Angelita is an imaginary person. she's my complete mafia character"
Lunadyne says, "Peter, I do look at them, and we're doing well in
comparison." Lunadyne says, "Not sure about the about at NSS HQ. I fear it
may be one of Mark's 'Keep your friends close and enemies closer' type
maneuvers." Lunadyne says, "I did however get contact with Katherine Brick,
who is editor of Ad Astra." Strangelv-2 says, "Zero sum thinking is not
something we ought to be doing" Lunadyne says, "I'm trying to get MMM
content into Ad Astra, and have initiated contact in that regard." kokhmmm
says, "Now we have a presence on the NSS website of sorts. Our new
publication To The Stars International Quarterly #1 is now out and online
at 2 places" kokhmmm says, "moonsociety.org/international/ttsiq/" kokhmmm
says, "and nss.org/ttsig/" kokhmmm says, "65 pages and getting good
reviews, esp from NSS" Lunadyne says, "Huh. Why is this a surprise to me?"
kokhmmm says, "And we are listed as co-sponsor of the new rag" kokhmmm
says, "I sent all that to the leaders on October 8th" Lunadyne says, "That
is a big pdf." Chard says, "I would reall y like to finish getting the
article finished on the moon mappers initiative... esp seeing the latest
planet hunters program getting such large media attention" kokhmmm says,
"The MMM india quarterlies have been running that big also" Lunadyne says,
"Jason, please do. We're always looking for new content." Lunadyne says,
"Peter, I got an MMMIQ e-mail on the 8th, but nothing on the TTITSQ."
Lunadyne says, "But surely it's been in the works for longer than that?"
Lunadyne says, "Since we're on the topic, unless anyone has anything else
on Membership, let's move on to the Secretary's report and publications."
kokhmmm says, "That must have been an oversight. I was in a rush to get it
done before I went to my cottage where I would be without internet" Philip
[Guest] has arrived. Lunadyne says, "Hi Phil!" kokhmmm says, "Hi, Phill!"
Philip [Guest] says, "Hello" dcarson says, "Phil, isn't the new account
working?" Chard waves. Rose/Miros says, "thought dana had you hooked up?"
Philip [Guest] says, "dana, i'm not authorized to join the moon-leaders
room" Philip [Guest] says, "i had to log out and then log back in as a
guest" Lunadyne says, "Just to catch you up: membership is 175, on an
upward trend. Our Facebook page is doing well. We're on publications now."
kokhmmm says, "Okay, I have been working hard on putting together the theme
issues in preparation for the Kindle project" dcarson says, "ah, sorry
forgot to add you to here" kokhmmm says, "I now have 8 theme issues ready
for a final once over before declaring them ready for conversion to Kindle:
" kokhmmm says, "Lunar Economy - 227" kokhmmm says, "Eden on Luna
(biosphere, environmental) - 213" kokhmmm says, "Construction on the Moon -
305" kokhmmm says, "Tourism - 139" kokhmmm says, "Analog Activities - 111"
kokhmmm says, "Research - 151" kokhmmm says, "Arts & Crafts - 132" kokhmmm
says, "Mars (how it fits in) - 199 - " kokhmmm says, "Surface Activities -
250ThaTh" kokhmmm says, "1627 pages total " Chard says, "wow" kokhmmm says,
"There are many articles not included (those on asteroids, other planets,
beyond the solar system, etc. But those areas are not my forte, and tie in
less directly with the Moon." kokhmmm says, "But keep in mind that many,
perhaps the majority of articles appear in more than one theme issue, of
course, as everything is "inter relevant" to coin a new word." dcarson
says, "ok, you are added now" Philip [Guest] says, "Thanks Dana. brb"
Lunadyne says, "Peter, can you post the pdfs of those to the website so
that Leaders can give them a once over?" Philip [Guest] has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Philip [Guest]. PhilipC has arrived.
kokhmmm says, "Now the question is how do we proceed from here, if we have
lost Mark Lupfer? I could redo all of these in Open Office. That will take
some time. Or could buy the latest version of MS Office which should work
on my computer." kokhmmm says, "You can thank the peace and quiet of 5 long
stays at my cottage with no interruption for me getting to this state."
kokhmmm says, "Now the question is how do we proceed from here, if we have
lost Mark Lupfer? I could redo all of these in Open Office. That will take
some time. Or could buy the latest version of MS Office which should work
on my computer." kokhmmm says, "You can thank the peace and quiet of 5 long
stays at my cottage with no interruption for me getting to this state."
kokhmmm says, "Now the question is how do we proceed from here, if we have
lost Mark Lupfer? I could redo all of these in Open Office. That will take
some time. Or could buy the latest version of MS Office which should work
on my computer." kokhmmm says, "You can thank the peace and quiet of 5 long
stays at my cottage with no interruption for me getting to this state."
PhilipC says, "I'm back"" kokhmmm says, "End of editors report" Rose/Miros
says, "Open office should open ms office files" Lunadyne says, "Here's a
challenge for the leadership - let's get the Kindlle project done by the
end of November so that we can have those available for the holiday buying
season." kokhmmm says, "Rose, the orginals are in Pages, the new Mac Pro
software" Rose/Miros says, "ahh" kokhmmm says, "Mark Lupger could read them
on his Mac which is why we were happy to have him involved but he seems to
have disappeared." Lunadyne says, "Peter, didn't we approve some money for
you to get a copy of MS Office?" kokhmmm says, "I think the topic came up,
but I don't remember that it was approved." pjbanyai says, "We need
Guidstar Profile fully updated so we can setup Amazon Non-Profit account."
Lunadyne says, "That's right, and we need a Chairman of the BoD to put in
their statement." kokhmmm says, "Unfortunately, I won't have the
uninterrupted peace and quiet of my cottage on a dead-end country road
again until next spring." kokhmmm says, "But I will find a way to get to
it." Lunadyne says, "Let's see, who do we have from our BoD tonight?"
alanzaldua has arrived. dcarson says, "Apple Pages, as part of the iWork
suite, lets you export files in the ePub electronic publishing format for
eBooks." dcarson [to export]: your book file as an ePub file, simply select
"Share" on the Apple Pages menu bar, then "Export" and select "ePub" as the
desired format. dcarson says, "This will create an ePub format file ready
for upload to the KDP website. " Chard says, "have we checked the
obituaries" PhilipC says, "Can someone please remind me how to check the
log?" alanzaldua says, "Hi everybody!" pjbanyai says, "Hi Al" Strangelv-2
waves. PhilipC says, "Hi Al"" Lunadyne says, "We need to update our BoD
page." dcarson says, "play current on recorder" Lunadyne says, "I see Alan,
Phil, Al and Jason." Rose/Miros says, "the one we're recording? help
$recorder" dcarson says, "wil play this session" pjbanyai says, "Only Ken
and I have Guidestar accounts. I sent everyone an invite." dcarson says,
"look recorder will list all the earlier ones, use the name instead of
current" Lunadyne says, "And I've updated the bulk of my stuff. We just
need the Chairman of the BoD to put in a statement to be finished." kokhmmm
says, "We have all the BOD members except Ben, I think," Lunadyne says,
"But for that we need a Chairman of the BoD. I've indicated previously that
I regard it as a gross conflict of interest, but no one seems to care about
that anyomore, and so I'd be willing to serve if asked." AlanSteinberg
says, "Didn't we decide that Ken could serve as both Chairman and
President?" kokhmmm says, "Do we rhave a chairman of the Board? " PhilipC
says, "Luna, why do you think that having chairman and president is a
conflict of interest?" Rose/Miros says, "i remember the discussion, but not
if there was a vote" Strangelv-2 ponders nominating Peter, but lacks
standing to do so Lunadyne says, "We secretly appointed Scotty one time
when he wasn't here, but that didn't work out. :-)" Rose/Miros says,
"scotty's got his hands full right now" Strangelv-2 says, "Unfortnately,
yeah, Scotty is distracted" Lunadyne says, "Phil, I regard it as a conflict
to run the body (as Chairman) that I answer to (as President)" kokhmmm
says, "Well when Scotty retired as chairman, I just chaired the meetings."
pjbanyai says, "We also need to list at least one program to be shown to
donors." Strangelv-2 says, "Define program" Lunadyne says, "I want that to
be the Lunar Lava Tube project." Strangelv-2 says, "Could Lunarpedia count
as one of the programs?" Lunadyne says, "Or the Solar Sail Comm Sat
project." kokhmmm says, "Hey, good news, I now am optimistic that I can
make it to ISDC in SD." Lunadyne says, "Maybe, but we're trying to raise
money for our science projects." PhilipC says, "I see chairman as a mere
formality in the BoD to ensure a well ordered meeting" Lunadyne says,
"That's great, Peter!" Strangelv-2 says, "Culd the power beaming demo
count?" AlanSteinberg says, "since the 'President' is an unpaid elected
position, I don't see it as a conflict" Scottyg says, "Ken I think that
conflict of interest is minor. The Chairman doesn't run the Society, the
BOD does. The chairman just moderates the board meetings." Lunadyne says,
"Yeah, but let's say I royally screw up as Pres, and the BoD legitimately
wants to get rid of me, but as Chairman of the BoD I make sure that never
comes to pass?" alanzaldua says, "I see the conflict, but it doesn't worry
me. I think it's minor. " Lunadyne says, "Power beaming would be good too."
Rose/Miros says, "i think we can part your hair" Rose/Miros says, "if
necessary" PhilipC says, "It might be a conflict of interest if a
non-founding Executive Director served as Chairman, but not
Chairman/President." kokhmmm says, "And " Boardmeetings are rare. usually
we are in Management Committee meetings" Lunadyne says, "Qtly, IIRC"
pjbanyai says, "Each program must list at least three outcomes, include an
estimated budget, and a tax class category code and subcode." kokhmmm says,
"Yes, but the BOD can be convened at other times if need be." Lunadyne
says, "3 outcomes? It's not just pass/fail?" PhilipC says, "Ken, if you
feel strongly enough about it, I could preside over meetings in a more
ceremonial role to ensure that meetings are in order. Let's talk about it
later." Rose/Miros says, "if we have enough bod members for a vote, why not
do it so we can get this off the unofficial agenda?" kokhmmm says, "Did we
ever vote to give Phil a board seat to fill the vacancy left by Bryce?"
Strangelv-2 says, "Also by def this would need to be a boarld decision, not
a managebment committee decision" Lunadyne says, "We have four of five. I'm
happy to have an impromptu Board vote on the matter." PhilipC says, "I
thought that I got my seat by default" Strangelv-2 says, "Do our bylaws
presently permit that?" Rose/Miros says, "so non board members can get a
drink, go potty, etc." Lunadyne says, "Yeah, pretty sure we settled that."
alanzaldua says, "good grief. let's have a vote. " Lunadyne says, "I move
we recess the Leadership meeting and convene a meeting of the BoD to vote
on the matter of Chairman." Scottyg says, "If we have a vacancy, then the
remaining four are the entire board. If all are present they can waive
notice for an impromptu meeting." AlanSteinberg says, "i second the motion"
PhilipC says, "As far as I knew at this point, I thought I was on the
board" Lunadyne says, "In favor?" kokhmmm says, "we need to update our
Officers and BOD lists on the webite" pjbanyai says, "It is possible to
have a co-chair I do not think it is mentioned in the bylaws so it should
not be excluded by them. A Scotty told me in the past "If it is not
excluded by the bylaws the board has final say on the matter." PhilipC
says, "Aye" Lunadyne says, "Phil, you are." AlanSteinberg says, "Aye"
alanzaldua says, "aye" Lunadyne says, "Jason, you around?" Lunadyne says,
"Just answer aye. ;-)" kokhmmm says, "He left to find a computer" Lunadyne
says, "Thought he was back." Strangelv-2 says, "He may also be blind"
Angelita raises Chard's hand. Lunadyne says, "Well, three of four is a
supermajority of those 'present', so the motion succeeds." Rose/Miros says,
"he's here, 13 minutes inactive" Chard says, "here" Chard says, "aye"
Rose/Miros says, "say aye" Chard says, "i'm here - but my eyes are very
watery and it's kinda hard to see" Chard says, "or read" Chard says, "just
had Lasik about hours ago" Lunadyne says, "The Leadership meeting is now in
recess and the BoD is now called to order. Comments may be made by Alan,
Al, Jason and Phil." Chard says, "5.." Chard says, "6.." Lunadyne says,
"Does anyone on the BoD have anything to say?" PhilipC says, "Perhaps we
can accept Ken as chairman with a standing rule that when it comes to any
vote regarding the removal of ken as either chairman or president, he may
not block adding such a vote to the agenda of a BoD meeting?" Chard says,
"I just missed a call from James" Strangelv-2 says, "Ignore" Strangelv-2
says, "I aws attempting to summon you" Chard says, "ok I like that idea -
helps avoid the conflict of interest argument if it were to come up"
Strangelv-2 says, "Preferably by text but my busted touchscreen and
trackball weren't cooperating" alanzaldua says, "I'm OK with Philip's
suggestion. " pjbanyai says, "Could also appoint a co-chair for any
conflict of interest." Lunadyne says, "good point, Paul. Phil had expressed
some interest..." PhilipC says, "As having served as both chairman of other
organizations and as parliamentarian, I could run meetings fairly
efficiently. However...." Lunadyne says, "...?" PhilipC says, "I have a
conflict of interest of my own, which I mentioned in my ballot statement,
in that I own two other space-related nonprofit organizations"
AlanSteinberg says, "I'd consider that a much larger conflict of
interest... ha ha" PhilipC says, "They are currently inactive right now but
when they do become active, my focus would operate outside the mission of
the Moon Society" Lunadyne says, "That's right. Good point. Anyone else
interested in serving in as Board watchdog on the Board chair?" alanzaldua
says, "holy smokes, i'm also involved and helping to run other space
advocacy organizations. i don't thing htats a proromble" PhilipC says, ":
D"" Strangelv-2 says, "How about board members owning companies that are
part of the overall effort? That used to be the norm here" PhilipC says,
"If that's not an obstacle, I tend to keep a tight ship on keeping meetings
on point and in order" alanzaldua says, "good!" dcarson says, "it can be
under the wrong circumstances, but space activists are a small amd
intertangled group so you just watch for problems" Strangelv-2 would hawve
no objection, but hasn't been a director for three yearn Lunadyne says,
"Heh, heh, heh. Yeah, you can try... :-)" PhilipC says, "Call me insane,
but there was actually a point in my life where I was inspired to read
Roberts Rules of Order" AlanSteinberg says, "do the bylaws not already
prevent board members from voting on issues where they have a direct
conflict of interest?" AlanSteinberg says, "If so... then all of this
argument is moot. If not, perhaps that the simple amendment we should be
considering" Lunadyne says, "Okay, so it sounds like the consensus is
gelling around Ken serving as Chairman of the Board, with Phil serving as
co-chair to fill in and otherwise hold Ken's feet to the fire." Strangelv-2
can't fault Philip for that. He dealswith RRO all the time as part of
county and state party executive committees Scottyg says, "I don't recall
such a provision." Chard says, "ok - i'll be right back in 10 min - have to
put antibiotics in my eyes... then wait 5 min... then put steroids in my
eyes... and then i can't see for a short time" Strangelv-2 says, "ow"
Lunadyne says, "The thought of mucking around with my eyes just gives me
the heebie jeebies." PhilipC says, "That's fine with me. I'm also willing
to serve as chairman for purposes of presiding over meetings." pjbanyai
says, "Unless the CoB is also a Voting Director they can not vote. They are
an Officer of the Society." kokhmmm says, "I can't put eyedrops in my own
eye" Lunadyne says, "My mom taught me a way to pinch the eyelid and drop it
into there." Strangelv-2 changes the topic to SQUICK. Lunadyne says, "So
can I get a motion from a Board member?" PhilipC says, "But as for being a
spokesperson, I would of course defer any public comments to the president"
kokhmmm says, "Paul in th past the Chairman of the Board was a board
member, and I believe a voting one to avoid ties" AlanSteinberg says, "I
move to elect Ken as Chaiman" Lunadyne says, "I promise I'll generally
abstain from voting in the BoD, except on crucial issues." PhilipC says,
"Are we closing discussion?" pjbanyai says, "All officers are members of
the Board, however they are non-voting members." AlanSteinberg says, "I'm
not stopping discussion, I'm just trying to move this along" Lunadyne says,
"No, IIRC my RRoO, we now move to discussion of the motion from Alan."
AlanSteinberg says, "we have a bad habit of these meetings taking way
longer than they should due to going off topic" Lunadyne says, "Which, by
the way, I haven't read RRoO on a while." PhilipC says, "So Alan, what
you're saying is that you would prefer to have a single chairman instead of
two co-chairs?" AlanSteinberg says, "yes, for now... i don't believe having
two co-chairs is in line with the way the bylaws are currently written"
PhilipC says, "Fair enough. I second Alan's motion" alanzaldua says, "wait
a minute. what's the motion?" Lunadyne says, "So moved. Let's move to a
vote. I would note that even with Jason momentarily incapacitated a
unanimous vote by the present Board members would also be a mojority of the
whole Board." AlanSteinberg says, "the motion is electing Ken Chairman
since right now we don't have one" alanzaldua says, "OK. Let's vote. "
AlanSteinberg says, "Aye" alanzaldua says, "aye." pjbanyai says, "Is'nt the
point of having 5 voting members to avoid ties." PhilipC says, "aye"
Lunadyne says, "Yes Paul, but as I indicated I'll generally abstain from
voting except on crucial issues." AlanSteinberg says, "once we have a
chairman we can have a managment committee which would let us amend bylaws
which I personally believe could use a little cleaning up. But that's for
another meeting. ;)" PhilipC says, "I wish to add another motion" Lunadyne
says, "So voted. Thank you gentlemen. Phil?" PhilipC says, "That we add to
the standing rules that the chairman of the board cannot obstruct any votes
relating to the removal of the chairman from the board or any additional
positions within the organization that the chairman may hold." alanzaldua
says, "good idea methinks. " PhilipC says, "This should clear up any
conflicts of interest" Lunadyne says, "Ooh, I like." Lunadyne says, "We
have a motion on the floor. Discussion?" Strangelv-2 says, "IS there a
second?" alanzaldua says, "i second. " Strangelv-2 says, "There. Now
discussion. 8)" AlanSteinberg says, "I'd say we could just amend the bylaws
to address that" AlanSteinberg says, "there is already a section (9) in the
bylaws about conflict of interset" alanzaldua says, "amending the by-laws
would need a committee and take time. " AlanSteinberg says, "it just needs
to be fleshed out" pjbanyai says, "Section 4. Penalties: Violations of the
rules set forth in "Election Rules," the Society's Articles of
Incorporation or these Bylaws, or the laws of the State of Texas for
non-profit corporations, by or on behalf of nominees for the Board of
Directors or Officers, may be considered by the Board of Directors as cause
for disqualification of any nominee from being elected to office in such
election. Upon receiving a report of such violation, the Board of
Directors, but only by majority vote of those members not being considered
for disqualification nor currently running in the relevant election, may
disqualify such nominee. Disqualification proceedings must be completed
within six months after the votes are counted. In the event of
disqualification of a nominee, then that nominee shall be declared
ineligible for election. If the disqualification occurs after the relevant
election then the member of the Board of Directors or Officer who has been
disqualified sha! ll be removed from the position. If the position is on
the Board of Directors, then the eligible nominee (if any) who has a
sufficient number of votes to have been elected given one additional Board
position shall fill the position on the Board thus vacated. If the position
is an Officer's position, then the nominee (if any) who has received the
second- largest number of votes shall fill the position." PhilipC says,
"But now that I think about it, adding Ken as chairman may require amending
the bylaws anyway since he's the odd man out" Chard says, "back" Lunadyne
says, "How about we make leashing the Chairman the first agenda item for
the next BoD meeting?" AlanSteinberg says, "Philip we discussed that COB
and Pres could be the same person previously... it seemed okay from a
bylaws point of view" Strangelv-2 is not alert enough to help with the
point of order raised about the motion just passd AlanSteinberg says, "I'm
fine for tabling the leashing of the chairman" Lunadyne says, "We have a
move to table the motion. Second?" Lunadyne says, "I'll second, because we
have a lot to cover in the regular meeting." Strangelv-2 says, "Chair can't
make or second motidons" Lunadyne says, ":-P" PhilipC says, "So am I to
understand that the vote we just held is null and void?" Strangelv-2 seems
alern enough to be the role of annoying backseat parliamentarian Rose/Miros
says, "no, it just needs some support" Lunadyne says, "No, James is saying
that I can't second the motion to table your motion." PhilipC says, "I
second the motion. " AlanSteinberg says, "but the President can" Lunadyne
says, "Oh, since Jason is back - Jason, how would you vote on making Ken
Chairman of the BoD." AlanSteinberg says, "so you can... as President... "
Strangelv-2 says, "President isn't a director" pjbanyai says, "(1)The Board
of Directors shall select a Chairman from their number by majority vote of
the Board. (2)All Officers of the Society who are not elected members of
the Board of Directors shall be ex-officio members thereof. (3)An
ex-officio member of any Body of the Society shall have no voting powers
within that Body and shall not have the right to be counted as part of a
quorum at meetings of that Body. An ex-officio member of any Body of the
Society shall for that Body have all other privileges and powers of a
voting member, including but not limited to the right to receive notice of
all meetings, the right to attend all meetings and join in discussions, and
the right to receive all mail correspondence of the Body including copies
of motions to be voted on by mail." Chard says, "I am fine with that"
Lunadyne says, "Given that the mover of the orignal motion seconds the move
to table I'll consider that friendly consent." AlanSteinberg says, ""The
voting members of the Board of Directors shall consist of all of the Board
members and all of the Officers of the Society,"" Strangelv-2 says, "That's
the management committee" PhilipC says, "I don't know if from a bylaws
point of view if the vote was legal" PhilipC says, "we might have to revise
the bylaws first before it can take effect" Lunadyne says, "There being no
other business before the Board at this time I move we adjourn until the
next formal Board meeting." Rose/Miros says, "close enough for government
work" Chard says, "agreed" Strangelv-2 is not alert enough to be caunted on
to catch evnery parliamentary problem PhilipC says, "second the motion to
adjourn" Lunadyne says, "All in favor?" Strangelv-2 says, "Non-debateable
motion" PhilipC says, "of adjourning?" PhilipC says, "aye" alanzaldua says,
"not sure. hard to follow all the parliamentary objections. " Lunadyne
says, "Yes. It got buried, but I took your second of the motion to table
your motion as friendly consent and considered the matter settled." Chard
says, "aye" Lunadyne says, "Which is why I try to avoid hardcore infliction
of parliamentary procedure." AlanSteinberg says, "as i've said... the
bylaws are kind of a mess" Lunadyne says, "I'll vote aye also, giving us
three of five in favor of adjourning." AlanSteinberg says, "aye" PhilipC
says, "So am I to udnerstand that the vote was nullified then?" alanzaldua
says, "ok. aye." Strangelv-2 hasn't looked much at the bylaws since April
2008 Lunadyne says, "The Board is now recessed until the next formal
meeting. I hereby call the regular Leadership meeting back to order."
Strangelv-2 points to the piece of rubble Scottyg says, "May I make a
comment regarding electing Ken as Chairman?" Strangelv-2 looks at Scotty
Chard looks at Strangelv-2. Rose/Miros says, "it's the same problem as you
being the money handler and the account registrare" alanzaldua says, "al
looks at scotty. " pjbanyai says, "This is one reason why I think we could
use an app to keep track of who has voting rights when :)" Lunadyne says,
"Just as clarification. Paul and I will work on getting the Gusidestar
stuff finished by this weekend, which is a big step in getting our MMMs for
sale on amazon." Lunadyne says, "What's up, Scotty?" Scottyg says,
"According to the Bylaws quoted above, "1)The Board of Directors shall
select a Chairman from their number by majority vote of the Board. ""
Strangelv-2 says, "That daes make it look out of orde" PhilipC says,
"Because of that line in the bylaws, the vote was null and void."
Strangelv-2 says, "hrat" Chard nods. Lunadyne says, "Yes Scotty, but
clearly no one is willing to step up, and so the Board decided to appoint
the Pres." Scottyg says, "Which I think means that the Chairman must be a
Director." PhilipC says, "Unfortunately it look taht way" Strangelv-2 looks
at Philip PhilipC says, "I'm willing to serve as chairman if this is what
the board needs right now" Lunadyne says, "James, don't pick on Philip.
He's a newbie and I don't want him railroaded into the role." Scottyg says,
"So I think appointing Ken is invalid without first amending the Bylaws."
AlanSteinberg says, "I agree... again, this is why we need to clean up the
bylaws, they seem over convoluted and protectionist preventing a smooth
running of the organization. " pjbanyai says, "See 2 and 3. Officers are
have all the rights of Borad members and are counted as members of the
Board of Directors they simply do not have voting rights." Strangelv-2
says, "That's really crumsy languageb if that's how it's phrased. The
correct term should be, IIRC< ex-officia" Scottyg says, "It's unclear
whether the "from their number" requirement includes ex-officio members."
Strangelv-2 says, "or ex-officio" Lunadyne says, "Sorry, I've been beating
my head on my desk. This is like the friggin' website." PhilipC says, "If
we're resuming the leadership meeting, let's table any further discussion
on this topic during this meeting, and resume it outside" Strangelv-2 is
too sleepy to help with clarity or Ken's frustrations alanzaldua says,
"wow. my head hurts too. " Chard says, "I have no problems either way - as
long as whoever is serving as Chariman knows how to do the Chairmans job..
I'm fine with it " PhilipC says, "I have served as chairman of the Sierra
Club in the Cleveland area which has nearly 5,000 members and have also
been on our state level board which has 20,000 members" Strangelv-2 says,
"Welcome to bylaws and parliamentary activities" alanzaldua says, "look. if
we are going to be sticklers on the by-laws, and the by-laws are impeding
us from getting much done, then let's change them. " Rose/Miros says, "my
noseos cold" Scottyg says, "I have no problem with Ken serving as Chairman,
but I think we should amend the Bylaws if that is the wwill of the BOD. And
with that I'll shut up." pjbanyai says, "The Board has final decision on
clarifications of the bylaws." kokhmmm says, "Well, after Scotty stepped
down as chairman, I led the Board sessions but did not vote." Lunadyne
says, "We need to get the Guidestar done. That means a Chairman of the BoD.
Four of the five Board members just voted to inflict that on me, so I'm
going to run with it until the next BoD meeting." Chard says, "the only
time we would run into a problem by not following the by-laws is if we were
audited" PhilipC says, "But again, we're getting off topic here. Let's get
back to the agenda." Chard says, "and even thn, then... i'm not sure how
severe the punishment would be" Lunadyne says, "Right. Next on the agenda
is Treasurer's report." Strangelv-2 says, "That would depend on who's
throwing lawyers at us" Rose/Miros says, "the scandalwould be worse than
the punishment , i'm sure" Lunadyne says, "Dana, how do we look on getting
the books up to date?" Strangelv-2 says, "Actually, it could endanger the
entire organization in the wrong situation" alanzaldua says, "i say that
there are no by-laws police that will care about whether ken is also chair
of the board. " dcarson says, "my hand is better so I'm making progress"
Strangelv-2 says, "It probabrly won't matte,r' especially if we change the
bylaws to make it clearly allowed before anyone notices" Lunadyne says, "As
I said, I'm running with it so that we can make some progress. The topic is
now Treasury." Lunadyne says, "Dana, do we have an ETA on completion?"
kokhmmm says, "We are too small for anyone to care about how we decide
things, as long as we are in general all okay with the directions we take."
alanzaldua says, "amen" dcarson says, "hopefully end of Nov" Lunadyne says,
"Paul, we need the Amazon account first, right? We can have a blocked
Paypal and that won't affect the ability to accept (just not receive)
funds? " Scottyg says, "Dana, I haven't forgotten to send you the remaining
bank statements. Wanted to run a copy first so I could help out if needed."
dcarson says, "thanks Scotty" Lunadyne says, "To the extent we can
accelerate the process that would be appreciated. I would like to have an
audited set of books with a clean accountant's opinion by the end of the
year." dcarson says, "will try" Strangelv-2 says, "I've also been tellinsg
James Burke that we'll be starting our migration shortly after the start of
the year" Lunadyne says, "Which opinion we can then flog Paypal with."
Lunadyne says, "Okay, any other Treasury matters?" alanzaldua says, "sorry
i missed this, but did we ever get an accountant?" Lunadyne says, "Dana was
talking with someone who helped with the IRS filings" kokhmmm says, "There
is one big thing missing - we haven't cleaned up the matter of how much TMS
owes LRS for printing. I volunteered to be point man here but am so busy
all the time with publications." Chard says, "just a thought, but it might
be nice to make a moon society calendar that we could sell to help raise
additional funds... ((was going to backspace that but can't since I'm in a
dos window).... as far as an accountant... i had one lined up that was
doing things for free? not sure if we used him or not" Lunadyne says,
"Jason, can you touch base with Dana on that offline?" pjbanyai says, "We
can link a bank account to Amazon." Chard says, "sure" dcarson says, "we
did, got the back nonprofit filings done" kokhmmm says, "Maybe we could
come up with a good estimate and agree on this. I have not been able to get
together with the LTS treasurer on this." dcarson says, "will contact them
about the audit when I get the data done" kokhmmm says, "Yes, I will work
with Dana on this." Lunadyne says, "Peter, I'd want some decent records
from LTS on their printing costs before recommending writing any checks."
kokhmmm says, "I will make that a priority, Ken." Lunadyne says, "Paul, so
we don't even need Paypal for the Amazon stuff? Excellent!" Lunadyne says,
"Paul, let's you and I work to get guidestar done by this weekend and
started on the Amazon stuff next week." Lunadyne says, "Peter, let's
circulate the first MMM Theme issue we want to put up, and everyone take a
look for errors." kokhmmm says, "If we come up with a range of figures, LRS
will accept the amount on the low end, so that we absorb any loss."
pjbanyai says, "Amazon has their own version of paypal." Lunadyne says,
"Excellent. I want Kindle MMMs available ASAP now that we have the Chairman
of BoD thing (sort of) settled." Lunadyne says, "The holiday season is
coming up, and they make great Kindle stuffers." kokhmmm says, "I will put
all of them in a new directory, without an index page. /kindle-prep/ ???
open to otheer suggestions. Unpublicized directory" pjbanyai says, "Still
need to fill in the Program information." Lunadyne says, "We can probably
cut-n-paste a lot of that." Rose/Miros says, "put in the solar power demo
for now?" Lunadyne says, "Peter, just be sure to circulate the address to
the leaders." Lunadyne says, "In addition to the Lunar Lava Tubes and Solar
Sail Comm Sat science projects." kokhmmm says, "Yes, of course, goes
without saying" Lunadyne says, "The Kindle MMMs are just one source of
potential revenue. Jason mentioned calendars, which would be perfect for a
CafePress type portal." kokhmmm says, "The theme issues will be in pdf
format" pjbanyai says, "Do we have annual budget estimates for them?"
Lunadyne says, "them what?" kokhmmm says, "I am very much of the opinion
that Cafe Press is a waste of money and time" Lunadyne says, "Peter, by and
large I agree. I came across the old Moon Society t-shirt and baseball cap
I picked up years ago, and they are of an appallingly low quality." kokhmmm
says, "We have never got any reports from Cafe Press on our earnings."
Rose/Miros says, "can we make calendars an action item, including methods
of sales and distribution, and assign to chard?" Chard says, "I would be
happy to work on that" Strangelv-2 can't find his Artemis Base Sim 1 tote
bag and wonders if they're still for sale pjbanyai says, "The solar power
demo, Lunar Lava Tubes and Solar Sail Comm Sat science projects, or any
other programs for Guidstar?" Rose/Miros says, "everyone else to support
chard with info and other assistance as needed" Lunadyne says, "As part of
the new website, I want to have a "Lunar Marketplace" section where we
would focus this kind of stuff. This would include Amazon ads for
recommended books, etc." Strangelv-2 says, "Complication is the tohte bag
designs need to be high contrast as every other 'square' is going to
disappear on the fist wash" kokhmmm says, "NSS made a big effort to put out
space settlement calendars for two years in a row, and ended up eating most
of the unsolf product. They were first class." Lunadyne says, "Paul, I'll
make up some numbers." Strangelv-2 says, "That may need a print on demand
solution" pjbanyai says, "We lost access to our official CafePress
account." PhilipC says, "We do calendars in the Sierra Club every year and
our local board decided against doing them" Strangelv-2 says, "Does Michael
Mealling or Greg still have access?" kokhmmm says, "Michael Mealing may."
Lunadyne says, "Why not just set up a new account and start fresh?" PhilipC
says, "They require enormous effort on behalf of volunteers to sell them"
Lunadyne says, "I was part of the NSS calendar sales side of things, and it
was tough. I would only recommend them for print-on-demand." Rose/Miros
says, "because the most desirable accunt name is in use" Chard says, "Ok -
scratch that - calendars might be a bad idea" Strangelv-2 says, "Possibly
replace the calandar with a photo or art book with a new edition every
year? Would make remaining inventory morle evergreen" Chard says, "how
about replica moon dust" Lunadyne says, "I'm glad we're thinking of
fundraising initiatives, but we only have half-an-hour left and I do want
to address the website." Strangelv-2 shows off the regolith simulant he's
liberalyl dusted his livingroom with to visitors PhilipC says, "lol"
Rose/Miros says, "synthetic lunar soil was a plot element on last week's
ncis" Lunadyne says, "I use regolith simulant in my outreach efforts. It is
a powerful tool." Strangelv-2 says, "How do you use it?" Rose/Miros says,
"what about an hourglass thingie with the simulant instead of sand?"
PhilipC says, "Perhaps setting up an online store might make more sense.
But we do need to move things along" Lunadyne says, "Too complicated an
explanation for this meeting. Let's move on to the website. Please."
alanzaldua says, "yes. please" kokhmmm says, "How about a tray of simulant
in which someone can make a bootprint and sell the photo to that person,
then stir up the tray for the next person?" Lunadyne says, "I've looked
over the log of the sort-of last meeting. Sorry I missed it, but it was a
good event down in Austin, and it looks like I may have lined up Anousheh
Ansari to be at next year's Moon Day. " Strangelv-2 claps. Lunadyne says,
"The main thing I'd like to see this evening is resolution of a couple
things:" Lunadyne says, "a) Do we stay or do we go?" Strangelv-2 says, "My
understanding is we've still not successfully contacted Randall" Lunadyne
says, "B) where do we go?" Rose/Miros pokes at Strangelv-2. Lunadyne says,
"c) what do we use when there?" Lunadyne says, "let's start with A. Do we
stay or do we go?" Rose/Miros says, "data gathering for a) has been
deligated to scotty, who had a rash of family problems and hasn't contacted
randall either" Lunadyne says, "Let's do a quick poll and see who is in
favor of moving to a new web host?" Strangelv-2 says, "I believe we need an
answer to B first. I'm guessing 'probably go' but it might at least help to
have a direction to leap in before looking" AlanSteinberg says, "don't
care... i just want a pretty website" Rose/Miros says, "rose hasn't gotten
much research done on b" PhilipC says, "Before we decide anything, I'd like
to see what are the recommendations of the web team" Lunadyne says, "James,
folks move websites all the time. It's a sucky process, but deciding to
move does not mean an immediate cessation of activity at the old site."
kokhmmm says, "I would trust Scotty's advice. I personally don't see a
reason to move." AlanSteinberg says, "and in fact i trust a subcommittee to
make website decisions so we don't spend an hour every 2 weeks discussing
it " PhilipC says, "I agree" Lunadyne says, "I think the decision to move
or stay is important enough to be the responsibility of the Leadership."
Scottyg says, "have a sort of unofficial committee at present. Do we want
to appoint an official one?" Lunadyne says, "Might as well. So long as we
start getting results." Rose/Miros says, "me, scotty, dana, sometimes
james, chard if i can beat "i dunno that language" out of him?" Scottyg
says, "Rose, who is helping out besides me?" Scottyg says, "Never mind."
Rose/Miros says, "oh,, one thing i have made progress on after 9 frigging
years of asking the wrong people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Rose/Miros says, "Scotty
will add a tracking field to the membership database" PhilipC says, "I'm
willing to help but I need to know how I can fit in" Lunadyne says, "To
track what?" PhilipC says, "I need specifics" Rose/Miros says, "can we
talki tracking first?" Rose/Miros says, "ok, we have no idea where new
members comefrom" Lunadyne says, "Good point." Rose/Miros says, "and if
we're going to spring forpretty brochures, we need to knw what event they
got the brochure from" Rose/Miros says, "so there's going to be (as soon as
scotty has time) a field in the data base, a text field on the on line
application" pjbanyai says, "The Artemis Society had "The Electronic
Communications Technical Committee" which the Web Team (Project Team)
reported to." Lunadyne says, "We have that issue with NSS. Chapters are
supposed to fill in their chapter number on handouts, and can include a
code for specific events." Rose/Miros says, "and a tool to add event codes
to the options for the txxt field" Lunadyne says, "I don't know that anyone
actually does so. NSS of NT does, but we get one membership reimbursement
check every couple of years." Rose/Miros says, "existing members get blank
in that field" Scottyg says, "It isn't major work to add the capability. I
can't help with the will to use it." Rose/Miros says, "i'll harangue people
to use it" Lunadyne says, "This is good, but doesn't address the larger
issues. Are we happy with our current web hosting and website, or do we
want to move to a commercial service and a new website design." pjbanyai
says, "The current Web Team Members are me, Dana, Philip, Rose, Scotty,
James, and Peter." Strangelv-2 teleports Rose to St Louis to bug Dietzler
about it Strangelv-2 is not happy with Xisp Rose/Miros says, "if he wants
official recognition (which is all i'll promise) he better have peole fill
in the code box" Lunadyne says, "1) Are we happy with our current website
hosting and design?" Lunadyne says, "I am not." Scottyg says, "James, I'm
not sure if I'm unhappy with Xisp or with how Randall manages the server."
Chard will brb again - more drops PhilipC says, "I would be in favor of
having the web team make a few recommendations and then have the leadership
meeting here vote on it." Rose/Miros says, "not happy with xisp, , or the
combination of xisp and randall's backup procedures that lead to the
extended outage" Scottyg says, "That's part of what I want to discuss with
him." Strangelv-2 says, "Under the hood I'm not touching what we have.
Simple answer I guess would be no" AlanSteinberg says, "I'm with Philip"
Rose/Miros says, "i'm not, although it does use " Lunadyne says, "We've had
a web team. " Scottyg says, "So can we have a motion to appoint a website
committee?" Rose/Miros says, "i'm not, although it does use wsd as a cms,
it's a clunky design" Scottyg says, "That could be just the web team. OR a
different group." AlanSteinberg says, "do we really neeed a motion for
that? " Rose/Miros says, "well,the current webmaster needs to get offher
butt and workon stuff" AlanSteinberg says, "we have a webmaster?"
Rose/Miros says, "lol, me, that's why i have a free membership" Strangelv-2
says, "WSD was possibly the first Web 2.0 system. By definion there are
shortfalls for being a first mover by years" AlanSteinberg says, "well...
then why don't you work on stuff" alanzaldua says, "good question. "
Rose/Miros says, "health problems, family problems, inertia" Lunadyne says,
"Okay, I want commitments, because I'm tired of futzing around with this
stuff. I've got to talk to college students at the SEDS conference in a
couple weeks, and I have to point them to a Web 1.0 website that they are
going to laugh at." AlanSteinberg says, "I move that we stop talking about
the website and the "web team" can come back at the next meeting with a
SPECIFIC plan of action, not "should we change or not" but instead "we
propose to do the following, here are the costs, here is the time line,
lets vote on it" kind of thing" Rose/Miros says, "scotty, will you have
time to contactrandall?" Strangelv-2 says, "CAn we have a forbmal web team
meeting?" Scottyg says, "I think the people currently involved look on
their task as more information gathering rather than making
recommendations. I suggest appointing a committee with that specific
directive." alanzaldua says, "we were trying to contact Randall two or
three meetings ago!" Strangelv-2's calendar has more things than he can
safely handle already, though Lunadyne says, "I move we appoint a Web
Committee." PhilipC says, "Second" Strangelv-2 says, "WE've still not
succeeded" Lunadyne says, "I favor?" Lunadyne says, "Aye" PhilipC says,
"Aye" AlanSteinberg says, "aye" alanzaldua says, "aye" Scottyg says, "I can
and will contact Randall." Scottyg says, "aye" AlanSteinberg says, "whos'
on it? I want this on record..." dcarson says, "aye" Strangelv-2 suggests
that be classified as passed by acclamation with Philip moving and Alan
seconding Lunadyne says, "Next up - who heads the committee?" alanzaldua
says, "and the web committtee will make recommendations." Chard sn Lunadyne
says, "I recommend a Board member as chair." Chard says, "aye" PhilipC
says, "I will head the committee" Scottyg says, "We need at least Rose,
Dana and me. Others are welcome although I would like to keep the group
relatively small." alanzaldua says, "small is good. " pjbanyai says,
"Committee should be added a team just like the previous Electronic
Communications Technical Committee." Strangelv-2 says, "I'm in, if only to
work with Drupal 7" Lunadyne says, "Philip has volunteered to head the Web
committee. Is the current web team willing to work under that structure?"
Rose/Miros says, "we can also use a few people to copy and paste
unrestricted content" AlanSteinberg says, "I nominate the following slate:
Philip - Chair of committee, Rose, Dana, Soctty as members" Lunadyne says,
"I like that slate." Rose/Miros says, "sure, that way i can attempt to
concentrate on technical problems" Chard nods. PhilipC says, "We will
search for desirable capabilities found on other websites" alanzaldua says,
"ditto." dcarson says, "ok with me" Chard says, "I agree with that if they
all agree with it" Scottyg says, "I second the nominations" PhilipC says,
"I will focus on the more strategic big-picture of what features we would
like to have" Lunadyne says, "So moved. Given the comments it seems to be
pretty unanimous." Lunadyne says, "Wow, and we still have seven minutes
left." Chard says, "last round of drops - brb" Lunadyne says, "Other
matters?" PhilipC [to the]: committee members, we need to exchange e-mails
PhilipC says, "i mean e-mail addresses" Rose/Miros says, "or have mike set
us up a list" Lunadyne says, "And please cc: me to keep me in the loop."
Scottyg says, "Philip - I suggest first order of business is a kick-off
meeting. Can you try to find a workable time?" PhilipC says, "that's why
I'd like to get their e-mail addresses" PhilipC says, "If I could make a
suggestion..." Lunadyne says, "I circulated an e-mail I got from LPSC.
They're looking for suggestions for panels at the next LPSC." Lunadyne
says, "I don't think it's been distributed yet." Scottyg says, "Mine is
scottygamm@dfwair.net." Lunadyne says, "What's up Phil?" Rose/Miros says, "
miros1@iwon.com" dcarson says, "rose, and I are here most of the time"
Lunadyne says, "Or should I call you philip?" PhilipC says, "next time,
let's start off this leadership meeting with a roll call that includes real
names, positions served, and e-mails" Strangelv-2 is also here most of the
time. jamesg@dimensionality.com pjbanyai says, "Could we simply transfer
the old committee team from ASI.org to moonsociety.org and then use the
mailing list?" AlanSteinberg says, "I've been pushing for us using real
names as usernames..." PhilipC says, "My e-mail is
pcrume.moonsociety@gmail.com" dcarson says, "dana@thecarsonfamily.org"
Lunadyne says, "lunadyne@gmail.com" AlanSteinberg says, "Okay... so Philip
when is a reasonable time for your team to be ready to submit a concrete
plan with numerated points on what you will do with the website that can
then be voted on?" Rose/Miros says, "james or i will contact miked about a
mailing list next time wesee him" Lunadyne says, "Sorry Alan, it's an
affection from the old BBS days..." alanzaldua says, "
alanzaldua706@yahoo.com" AlanSteinberg says, "I know, every BBS, Forum, etc
I'm on... I try to use something close to my real name... just makes life
easier" Strangelv-2 has been using this cognomen here since we were using
IRC Chard says, "tuttlepc@gmail.com" Lunadyne says, "Mine represents my
selfish view that I am a unit of Moon force." Scottyg says, "It gets a
little tiresome typing Scotty.Gammenthaler. :=)" Strangelv-2 says,
"Gholston probably isn't much better. HThe second letter throws pretty much
everyone" Rose/Miros says, "i've been miros since about 1989, through
multiple games" Lunadyne says, "You mean it's not Guh-holston?" Scottyg
says, "Easy - Gholston the ghost." Lunadyne says, "JK" pjbanyai says, "2
minutes" AlanSteinberg says, "back to topic... Philip... answer? :)"
dcarson says, "How attached are you to the moon?" dcarson says, "About
12766 joules per kilogram. Give or take." Strangelv-2 says, "It's possible
the H was added at some point in past centuries to keep it from being
pronaunced Jolston" Strangelv-2 says, "It's old english" Strangelv-2 says,
"...or it couldhave been used as an A... Gaols Town?" kokhmmm says,
"goodnight all" Lunadyne says, "I'm guessing the roots are deeper than Olde
Englishe" Rose/Miros says, "so your ancestor was a warden,mine was a
weaver" Strangelv-2 says, "or maybe it's middle english" kokhmmm has
disconnected. Lunadyne says, "thanks peter. Nitght" Chard says, "goodnight"
Strangelv-2 says, "Naght" Strangelv-2 needs to either sleep or print FEC
forms in another room PhilipC says, "Ok i'm back" Rose/Miros says, "night"
Lunadyne says, "we have hit 10pm. Do I have a motion to adjourn ?" Chard
has to go rest his eyes Strangelv-2 lacks standing to move, second, or vote
pjbanyai says, "Motion to sleep;)" Chard motions to adjourn... seconds if
motioned Rose/Miros says, "since the web committee is all here, canw e have
aweb meeting?" PhilipC says, "second" AlanSteinberg says, "wait.. no"
Lunadyne says, "Wait, what Alan?" AlanSteinberg says, "i want an answer to
my question" Chard says, "I missed it I think" AlanSteinberg says, "it's
for Philip" PhilipC says, "What is it?" Rose/Miros says, "when we'll have
recommendations? " AlanSteinberg says, "when is a reasonable time for your
team to be ready to submit a concrete plan with numerated points on what
you will do with the website that can then be voted on?" Lunadyne says,
"thanks, I was just trying to find that." Chard says, "can you have it
ready by the next meeting?" PhilipC says, "Since we need to move quickly
for SEDS, I think we're going to need to have it by the next meeting"
Lunadyne says, "Oh crap. I'm going to be on the road for that meeting too."
AlanSteinberg says, "okay... can you circulate it via email (or Ken can)
before the meeting so we can read it and be ready to vote on it" PhilipC
says, "I would expect to do nothing less" Scottyg says, "I don't think
that's realistic but you're in charge." Strangelv-2 says, "We might have to
adjoust our objectives to meet that objective" PhilipC says, "Keep in mind
that initially, we're not talking about actually moving the website"
AlanSteinberg says, "Scotty, I didn't think it would be either... thats why
i asked for a date rather than suggesting next meeting... ha" Lunadyne
says, "I'll be driving up to Buffalo. I'll try to log in from the hotel
room. I agree with scotty, but we have been stalling on this for a while
and I'm ready to be aggressive." AlanSteinberg says, "all i'd like is a
plan and timeline... ideally in multiple points/pieces" PhilipC says, "But
what we do need to do is to decide what types of features the web committee
should pursue and then from there let the services offered by any web host
determine with whom we should keep or transfer our account to" The
housekeeper arrives to cart kokhmmm off to bed. Lunadyne says, "My ideal
launch date for the new site is June 2013. Preferably much, much sooner."
Scottyg says, "I think the mid-November meeting is a lot more reasonable."
dcarson says, "use Roses computer :-)" Rose/Miros pokes at dcarson.
alanzaldua says, "folks, i gotta go." dcarson says, "he'll be nearby"
Lunadyne says, "Still, I want a report on progress at the next meeting, but
agree with Scotty that mid-November is more reasonable." Chard motions to
adjourn. Rose/Miros says, "you know how crappy time-warner is? the site
would be down for 2 minutes every time weturned around" Lunadyne says,
"Second. In favor?" Lunadyne says, "Aye" Scottyg says, "Aye" AlanSteinberg
says, "aye" Chard says, "Goodnight all - thanks for the productive meeting"
pjbanyai says, "aye" alanzaldua says, "aye" Strangelv-2 says, "Are we
havivg a web team meeting right now?" PhilipC says, "Yes" Lunadyne says,
"Okay...Web Committee, you're up!" Strangelv-2 says, "Here or in the
Commons?" AlanSteinberg has disconnected. alanzaldua says, "@quit" Chard
vanishes in a cloud of smoke. Scottyg says, "I can stay around for a while
but will be afk for a short while." Lunadyne says, "Everyone's here. Let's
get it on the record." alanzaldua has disconnected. Lunadyne says, "Phil,
you have the gavel." PhilipC says, "Ok, I call to order the Web committee."
PhilipC says, "We'll try to keep this short. So for a quick agenda, we need
to discuss what recommendaitons we can realistically provide by the next
meeting " Strangelv-2 says, "Should we separate the objective ofa nicer
looking site from the true migration?" PhilipC says, "We have been talking
about doing an accounting of what web assets we currently have" PhilipC
says, "Not yet" Strangelv-2 says, "A lighter objective to try in time for
SEDS, then the real migration sometime after 1 January?" Strangelv-2 says,
"Web assets inventory... lots..." Strangelv-2 says, "But some of it we
don't actually control" PhilipC says, "We can have a smoother transition if
we know what to transition to." Strangelv-2 says, "ASI controls the ADB, a
bunch of lists, the web ring, asi.org; Greg Bennet controls ASI List"
PhilipC says, "Is there anything else we should talk about?" Lunadyne says,
"Paul did forward a spreadsheet of web assets to me. I'll try to dig that
up." pjbanyai says, "There is a Communications Shack [room] for the old
committee. I don't know if it can still be accessed but it was setup
specifically for those meetings." dcarson says, "drupal if we do switch I
think" Strangelv-2 says, "We host the wikis and control most of them -- but
Marspedia we share control of with several other organizations. All are
hosted on Mike Delaney's Dreamhost account" Rose/Miros says, "dana was
deligated to explore drupal/team dir communications for the restricted
content" dcarson says, "cafepress store" The housekeeper arrives to cart
AlanSteinberg off to bed. PhilipC says, "Is someone willing to make a quick
mindmap of where the assets are located?" Strangelv-2 says, "We have an
Orkut group that's overwhelmed by spammers" The housekeeper arrives to cart
alanzaldua off to bed. Strangelv-2 says, "We have a facebook page, a Yahoo!
group" Rose/Miros says, "i know how to restrict content once we know what
role)s_ the people have" dcarson says, "faceboo page and group" pjbanyai
says, "We have a spreadsheet with a list of some assets currently stored at
the BoD team page." dcarson says, "linkedIn group" PhilipC says, "I will
copy this portion of the log for our own use and we'll track this stuff
down" PhilipC says, "and of course e-mail it to everyone in the committee"
PhilipC says, "I guess the last question here is what would be a good time
for all of us to meet again?" PhilipC says, "I'm thinking perhaps sometime
this weekend?" Strangelv-2 says, "I believe we have de facto control over
the MOOs, or at least ASI MOO. Several others primarily belong ot other
organizations: NSS, Mars Society, et al." dcarson says, "pairnic, network
solutions and go daddy accounts" Strangelv-2 says, "I have a wedding to
attend Friday evening. With a target I can attempt it, but I have more to
do for the next weekish than I can physically get away with" Scottyg says,
"Philip, week nights are much better for me." PhilipC says, "Once we have a
list of the assets we control, we then need to consider which assets are
obsolete" Rose/Miros says, "week nights are good" dcarson says, "IRS form
990N login" PhilipC says, "How does next Monday sound?" Rose/Miros says,
"the orkut group is, i don'tthink there's anything on that entiresite but
spam" Rose/Miros says, "monday is good" Strangelv-2 says, "Bad for me. I
have more than I can handle on that day already" Scottyg says, "I think
Monday after 7:30 CDT is ok." dcarson says, "and orkut has become strongly
brazilian" Strangelv-2 says, "But if I'm not officially on the committee it
doesn't have to dhave me there possibly" dcarson says, "so dropping it
might be the easiest" Lunadyne says, "Dana, do you have the address for
that spreadsheet? I can't find it." Strangelv-2 says, "...if we can get
admin level access at all" dcarson says, "I'm out monday nights" Scottyg
says, "Ok, how about Tuesday?" PhilipC says, "James, this is no longer just
the web team but a new web committtee. If you have the means to contribute
something, we'd love to have you" dcarson says, "get home at 11-12 est"
Lunadyne says, "Why not have meetings twice a week?" dcarson says, "home
most other nights" Rose/Miros says, "because we can't get one night
scheduled" Rose/Miros says, "once we have that, we can add a second"
PhilipC says, "Tuesdays?" Lunadyne says, "That's why you have two, so that
everyone can make one or the other." Rose/Miros says, "not sure i like that
idea" Rose/Miros says, "you spend too much time catching people up" Scottyg
says, "Tuesday after 7:30 CDT is ok." Rose/Miros says, "fine by me" dcarson
says, "works for me" Rose/Miros says, "james? scotty?" Scottyg says,
"Thursday is good for a second day." Strangelv-2 says, "It -sounds asl good
as anything" PhilipC says, "Let's keep things consistent, how about Tuesday
at 9 EDT/8 CDT?" pjbanyai says, "Asset spreadsheets now copied to
http://www.moonsociety.org/private/leaders/Assets" Rose/Miros says, "ok"
Scottyg says, "That's fine." Strangelv-2 says, "There's also an ASI Yahoo!
group. It may have the exact same owners as the Moon Society group. IIRc
they were mainly created to prevent anyone else from creating them" PhilipC
says, "So the first thing we need to track down are the assets. We can
discuss the assets at that meeting. After that meeting, we should ideally
track down state of the art capabilities." PhilipC says, "So at the
follow-up meeting, we should have a discussion on which assets are
obsolete." Rose/Miros says, "and which are inacessible" Scottyg says, "I
suggest we use the web team for our work. There is little else to
conflict." Strangelv-2 says, "And which contain information we need to
recover" PhilipC says, "That should put us in a position of better deciding
which features to migrate or not" Lunadyne says, "I don't generally agree
with the philosophy of creating web assets to block others from using them,
but I would note that the Lunar Embassy bills itself as "Official Website
Of The Moon Society"" Scottyg says, "I can change the Team membership to be
just this group." PhilipC says, "Let's do that" Strangelv-2 says, "When did
they start using our name on the page instead of just a domain name?"
dcarson says, "http://www.myspace.com/moon_society" Strangelv-2 has wanted
to throw lawyers at the Lunar Embassy from the very beginning Rose/Miros
says, "is that the moonsociety.com people?" Lunadyne says, "Don't know, but
if you google The Moon Society they show up a little ways down the page."
Lunadyne says, "Rose, no it's the charlatans selling plots of land on the
Moon." Lunadyne says, "Lunar Embassy" dcarson says, "
https://twitter.com/MoonSociety" Lunadyne says, "Wow, we have a Twitter?
Sweet as!" Strangelv-2: Luna Society International - Official Website Of
The Moon Society Strangelv-2 says, "Can we throw lawyers at them now?"
pjbanyai says, "Ken, Peter, and Jason have admin access to our linked in
corporate page. They can add anyone they have as a Linkedin Contact/friend
as an admin. I forgot to add myself when I switched from the requirement
that all admins needed a moonsociety.org email address." dcarson says, "
http://www.msphx.org/" Lunadyne says, "That's the Phoenix chapter." PhilipC
says, "how do i copy the text here in moo?" Strangelv-2 says, "This may
also count as an asset, just don't tell Wikimedia that we called it that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_Society" dcarson says, "cut and paste
should work, most clients have local logging, turn it on and play current
on recorder" Rose/Miros says, "but waittil you're alone in the room or
you'll get chatter at the weirdest places" Scottyg says, "Ok, we have Web
Team with Paul Banyai, Dana Carson, Philip Crume, Rose Dieteman, me, James
Gholston, Peter Kokh and Ken Murphy as members." Scottyg says, "I think I
should remove Peter." Rose/Miros will be right back. Scottyg says, "Paul
may want to remain even though not on this committee." pjbanyai says, "It
is not the Lunar Embasssy. The Lunar Registry or Lunar Republic has own
moonsociety.com for years now. The Lunar Embassy has apparently tried
several times to have them shut down for copyright/trademark
infringements." Rose/Miros says, "moonsociety.com redirects to
lunasociety.com " Strangelv-2 says, "Ansd we should have thrown lawyers at
them the minute they registered moonsociety.com" Rose/Miros says, "and
they're using the exact moon graphic wedo" Scottyg says, "The team has a
mail list - I'll send a message to all team members." Strangelv-2 says,
"better still, not have left it unregistered in the first place" Rose/Miros
says, "too late for that" Lunadyne says, "The point now is to distinguish
ourselves such that no one mistakes us for the pretenders." PhilipC says,
"I would prefer that issues of infringement be handled by a legal
committee. We can bring it up at the next leadership meeting." PhilipC
says, "Scotty, that would be great" Scottyg says, "The mail address is
web-team@moonsociety.org" Strangelv-2 is all in favor of a legal committee
PhilipC says, "We don't have the power to vote on that right now" PhilipC
says, "We're just a sub committee" Strangelv-2 says, "I know. " Rose/Miros
will be away from her keyboard for a bit. Strangelv-2 says, "Sorry for the
detour" PhilipC says, "But assuming that a legal committee could be formed,
they would be the appropriate body to handle such types of infringment"
pjbanyai says, "web-team@moonsociety.org is the email for the web team. The
committee should have a different email address." Rose/Miros says,
"important, but not relevant" PhilipC says, "precisely" Strangelv-2 may
have mentioned that he's up past his bedtime PhilipC says, "So for the
issue of this web committee, let's track down those assets for the Tuesday
meeting and exchange them periodically before then" PhilipC says, "Does
this sound like a good first step?" dcarson says, "yep" pjbanyai says,
"Asset spreadsheets now copied to
http://www.moonsociety.org/private/leaders/Assets" PhilipC says, "Is there
anything else anyone wants to discuss?" PhilipC says, "Then I move to
adjourn this meeting." dcarson says, "second" Strangelv-2 says, "Do I have
standing to vote?" PhilipC says, "By virtue of being here, I consider you
member of this committee" PhilipC says, "so yes" Scottyg says, "Ok, you all
should have received an email from me via the web-team list." PhilipC says,
"A second for an adjournment is all that's necessary" Strangelv-2 still
doesn't see one PhilipC says, "is ken still here?" Strangelv-2 is holding
off on seconding but isn't clearly thinking of what else he wants brought
up PhilipC says, "we can add to the agenda for the next meeting" PhilipC
says, "The meeting is now adjourned" Strangelv-2 says, "I suppose it won't
need to be during the meeting" Strangelv-2 says, "second" pjbanyai says, "I
have not been able to login to myspace for a while so I think it may have
changed back to Charles email address. Also, Facebook's Causes.com changed
how they manage admins during one of their updates. So we need Charles to
make the MoonSociety our Primary Cause and add everone as admins." PhilipC
says, "I'm not able to copy and paste the contents in Moo, is someone here
willing to do that and send an email?" Scottyg says, "Yeah, the mail list
is kinda slow sometimes. I haven't gotten mine yet either." Strangelv-2
says, "The milter filter" Strangelv-2 says, "That's one complication of our
anti-garbage solution" Scottyg says, "I would but am doing MOO on a
computer without email." PhilipC says, "I should probably add that it would
be helpful that in addition to tracking down the assets, we can also find
out who controls what." Strangelv-2 says, "it takes hours sometimes for an
email to go through" Strangelv-2 says, "Before we did that it was a
non-stop deluge of garbage" Rose/Miros says, "i thought the whole point of
lists was to restrict who could send to them" dcarson says, "ok copied"
Strangelv-2 says, "And every time a bounce happened the list manager got a
message about it" PhilipC says, "Thanks Dana" Strangelv-2 says, "Ask me how
I know..." PhilipC says, "Let me guess, you're the list manager?"
Strangelv-2 says, "I was the list manager for the NEA list until my most
recent lapse in membership" Rose/Miros says, "was, i assume he dropped that
responsibility" Strangelv-2 says, "Which was a month or three ago"
Strangelv-2 says, "The last discussion on the list was a vote to kep the
list up and running. Frobm pople who have'nst been heard from since"
dcarson says, "and sent" PhilipC says, "Does anyone here have
administrative privileges on the moonsociety.org website?" Rose/Miros says,
"i think i do, sco tty defini tely does" dcarson says, "I do" Strangelv-2
says, "I used to have some, but mostly in regalds to membership" PhilipC
says, "I've misplaced my username/password for the popup to access the
list." Strangelv-2 says, "I don't know if I still have any of those powers
remaining. This was roughly a decade ago." PhilipC says, "Although it
probably makes sense for me to also have administrative control, I'm
perfectly happy letting you guys handle that" pjbanyai says, "Dana has
admin access to the domain. Most of us have WSD and teamdir admin access."
pjbanyai says, "Easy to add WSD access. Will have it in a minute." dcarson
says, "url to the popup?" PhilipC says, "yes" pjbanyai says, "Oops You have
not signed up at http://www.moonsociety.org/wsd/ yet." Rose/Miros says, "i
have received add drop notices, but no real message" PhilipC says, "When I
try to log into the MyMoonSociety, I get a popup but the password doesn't
work" pjbanyai says, "Once you do any admin with user admin permisions can
increase your permisions." dcarson says, "pcrume is the username" PhilipC
says, "Let's move this discussion to another room that isn't being
recorded" dcarson says, "ok ,out in the hall" dcarson goes South. PhilipC
goes South. Scottyg goes South. Rose/Miros says, "the people who can answer
this question are out in the hall most likely, but can the lists be made to
accept only member messages, to reduce the need for milterfilter?" pjbanyai
says, "We need to combine wsd and teamdir registration. It is ridiculous to
have two seperate registrations. Most members do not realize they need to
register for both the teams and the website." Strangelv-2 says, "In
fairness, most have no reason to have a WSD account" Rose/Miros says, "if
we go to drupal, we'll have a team dir authorization function" Rose/Miros
says, "and working on the website will be just another team function, so
your drupal roles will reflect that" Strangelv-2 says, "What do we
presently use for credit card processing?" Rose/Miros says, "that's a
scotty question" Strangelv-2 says, "IIRC PayPal is one option, but not the
only one" Strangelv-2 says, "Pyrix is likely a better match for our needs
than PayPal" Rose/Miros says, "but yes, we need to integrate CREATION of
drupal and team dir accounts, the usernames need to match and probably the
passwords" Strangelv-2 says, "Q: do we actually want to integrate our team
functions into the public mebsite, or do we want to keep that separate? as
has been mentioned a few times, we actually have twvo websites" Strangelv-2
says, "the public website, and teh not so public website that controls
teams and memberships" Strangelv-2 says, "The separation has security
benefits" Strangelv-2 says, "Someone defacing our public site won't have
access to the critical stuff where they could harm us" Rose/Miros [to get]:
to t he team stuff, they'd have to either know how to hack drupal security
or be a member and on a team Rose/Miros says, "the control functions will
probably need to sta y on cyberteams" Rose/Miros says, "but the team
content can go into drupal" Rose/Miros says, "scotty and i have discussed
this" Strangelv-2 says, "I'm sure there's loads of people who work on
breaking into Drupal." Rose/Miros says, "probably" Strangelv-2 says, "TEam
content Drupal, membershtip content in a separate system?" Rose/Miros says,
"yep" Rose/Miros says, "no, wait" Rose/Miros says, "define membership
content" Rose/Miros says, "there might be a sign up form on the drupal
site" Rose/Miros says, "which will connect with a secure site" Strangelv-2
says, "So and so is member #10538, joined on this date, lives at this
address, has these phone numbers, joined on this date, has been
continuously a member since this date, et c." pjbanyai says, "Basic wsdpro
access only allows an initial request. Members with higher access must then
review the requests." Rose/Miros says, "yes, that will be secure"
Rose/Miros says, "so yes, team stuff will be on drupal, membership info and
adjucica tion of role will be on secure" Rose/Miros says, "adjudication of
roles will q ueury team dir and set the roles, drupal will use the role
info to control content access" dcarson has arrived. 
-- End log: Thursday, October 18, 2012 12:29:24 am ASI Meeting Server time --