-- Start log: Wednesday, November 7, 2012 9:06:55 pm ASI Meeting Server time -- 
PhilipC says, "if no one has an objection, i'd like to start with
the board meeting first and then proceed on to the management committee
meeting." bnault says, "no objection" AlanSteinberg says, "no objection"
PhilipC says, "since there is no chair for the board, would it be alright
if i serve as a temporary presiding officer to get things started?" bnault
says, "please do" PhilipC says, "let the record show that the Board Meeting
for the Moon Society is now in session." PhilipC says, "Of the five board
members, Ben Nault, Alan Steinberg, and Philip Crume are now in
attendance." PhilipC says, "Ex-officio attendees are Paul Banyai and Dana
Carson" PhilipC says, "Other person in attendance are Rose Dieteman and
Scotty Gammenthaler" Scottyg says, "lso me Philip. I'm Assistant
Treasurer." Strangelv-2 is also here PhilipC says, "For this board meeting,
we need to approve an agenda" pjbanyai says, "Rose and Scotty are also
exoficio since they are officers." Scottyg says, "I don't think Rose is an
officer." pjbanyai says, "Rose is Chief Web Officer." Strangelv-2 says,
"She has an appointed position and is leadership council. I'm a past
director and am also on the leadership council" PhilipC says, "I am not
aware of that being an elected position. But let's suspend discussion on
this topic for now" Scottyg says, "But I don't think that's an officer
position as defined by the Bylaws." PhilipC says, "For now, we need to
discuss the agenda for the BoD meeting" PhilipC says, "Item 1 is selecting
a chairman" pjbanyai says, "Appointed Officer positions are still valid for
exoficio standing." kokhmmm has arrived. kokhmmm says, "Hello" PhilipC
says, "Other items we need to discuss, and whether or not it is best
determined by the BoD or the Management Committee, is the formation of a
Communications Committee, an Ad Hoc Bylaws Revision committee, and a Legal
Committee" pjbanyai says, "Several officer positions have been appointed
which have not yet been added to bylaws." PhilipC says, "Is there anything
else anyone would like to add to the agenda for this BoD meeting? Keep in
mind that once we complete this agenda, we can adjourn, and then proceed
with the MC meeting." Scottyg says, "Philip, could we first consider a
quick Bylaws amendment to allow any board member or elected officer to
serve as chairman?" Strangelv-2 wonders if we need a majority of quorum or
a majority of all board member to ammend PhilipC says, "Not yet. We need to
approve this agenda and once we discuss the chairmanship, then we will do
so." Rose/Miros says, "can i make a motion?" pjbanyai says, "It already
states that any member of the board is eligible. it does not state that
they must be able to vote." Scottyg says, "I think its the sense of the
board that we would like to have Ken as chairman but the Bylaws don't seem
to allow that." Rose/Miros says, "i mov e to approve the agenda" PhilipC
says, "Is there anything else we need to add to the BoD agenda?"
Strangelv-2 says, "Board meeting. only board members have standing to
motion or vote" bnault says, "if there is nothing to add to the agenda, I
move that we approve the agenda presented by Philip Crume." AlanSteinberg
says, "second" PhilipC says, "so moved" PhilipC says, "first item,
selecting a chairman" pjbanyai says, "Exofficio members have all the rights
of Voting members with the exception of the right to vote and the right to
be counted for the quorum." PhilipC says, "Ben, you are the senior board
member here" bnault says, "it appears so" PhilipC says, "Ken mentioned in a
previous e-mail that of the five board members, you are the most senior"
PhilipC says, "Others include Jason Tuttle, Al, Alan, and myself" bnault
says, "but you appear to have a better handle on meeting procedures."
Rose/Miros says, "he' chair of quite a few things, is it t opo much,
philip?" PhilipC says, "For the record, the board attempted to appoint Ken
Murphy, current president, as chairman. However the bylaws does not permit
it." PhilipC says, "It doesn't prevent a member of the board from resigning
and having it appoint ken on to it, and from there selecting him as
chairman." PhilipC says, "If we are to attempt to make the previous board
decision legitimate, this is one option." pjbanyai says, "ARTICLE XIII -
AMENDMENTS " bnault says, "Philip, would you entertain the idea of the
chairmanship?" PhilipC says, "I have served as chairman of larger
non-profit organizations and have approximately 4 years of experience in
this role." AlanSteinberg says, "okay, to get this show on the road, I move
to nominate Philip as chairman" PhilipC says, "I would be willing but want
to see what Alan's opinion is here." bnault says, "second Alan's
nomination" AlanSteinberg says, "the power of the chairman as it currently
stands is rather weak, its just a person to run the meetings. Philip seems
to be able to do that... so I'm good with him as Chairman. We can always
remove him later. ha ha" pjbanyai says, "The bylaws do not prevent a
non-voting member from being chairman. It does however say that any call to
have a board meeting out of its normal time requires the following: For
telephone and online chat meetings, or voting by email: Notice shall be
sent by electronic means no less than 10 days before the date of the
meeting, or by postal mail no less than 40 days before the date of the
meeting. When notice is sent by electronic means, verification of receipt
by the member is required. Verification may be by reply to the email
providing notice, or by telephone conversation with a person providing
notice. The notice shall specify the time and location of the meeting, and
in the case of a special meeting, the exact text of any question proposed
to be voted on at the meeting. " PhilipC says, "Paul, yes it does. Article
V, section 2." pjbanyai says, "The special board meeting which violated
this requirement also elected Philip as a board member." PhilipC says,
"Paul, I sent an agenda 10 days ago" bnault says, "imbroglios like this are
why I refrain from the chairmanship...LOL" pjbanyai says, "The previous
meeting was not announced. So if the vote for Chairman is not valid from
that meeting then the vote for your directorship is not either." Rose/Miros
says, "it's too cold for revisionist history, can we move on" Scottyg says,
"I believe that attendance at a meeting by a member constitutes waiver of
notice requirements." bnault says, "we are a small organization, we cannot
let legalese bury us otherwise we would simply fold." Scottyg says, "But at
the moment I can't remember where that opinion comes from." bnault says,
"for practical reasons, I agree with Scotty. " pjbanyai says, "I suggest a
reafirming vote. However the only director missing was Ben so only his vote
and acceptance of any decision is really needed. " PhilipC says, "I know. I
have no desire to make a mess of anything here. Personally, I'd rather have
Ken serve as chairman and have stated in e-mails that I'm willing to
support a revision in the bylaws to make that happen." bnault says, "Does
everyone agree with Paul's point: reaffriming vote?" PhilipC says, "This is
why I voted for him at the last meeting. But after preparing for the
revision of the bylaws, I discovered the requirement in Artive V section
2." PhilipC says, "A reaffirming vote is fine with me." pjbanyai says, "AS
I stated the bylaws are fine with a NON-VOTING member being Chairman."
PhilipC says, "Let the record show that I am still in favor of a revision
to the bylaws that would give Ken undisputed presiding powers" pjbanyai
says, "Though it would not hurt to make the wording a little clearer."
bnault says, "I think giving the President presiding powers is a good
idea." PhilipC says, "All the chairmanship really is, is to be the
presiding officer to move meetings along. As was said earlier, he doesn't
have any real power nor does he represent the organization." Scottyg says,
"Ok, that provision about waiver of notice comes from the Texas Business
Organizations Code, Section 6.052(b): "If a person entitled to notice of a
meeting participates in or attends the meeting, the person's participation
or attendance constitutes a waiver of notice of the meeting unless the
person participates in or attends the meeting solely to object to the
transaction of business at the meeting on the ground that the meeting was
not lawfully called or convened."" bnault says, "Alright, so the meetings
are legit." PhilipC says, "The fact is, the selection of the chairmanship
was not on the agenda for the August meeting. While Ken discussed it, being
that it wasn't on the agenda, it was never done. " PhilipC says, "Now that
we've selected a chairman, let's get back to the business of fulfilling our
mission" PhilipC says, "Item 2 on the agenda: the formation of new
committees" pjbanyai says, "I have been looking at the NSS bylaws and both
our current bylaws and both of Philip's two suggested bylaws. The NSS
bylaws tend to be much clearer on those points which tend to trip us up."
PhilipC says, "Now I leave this to Ben and Alan to choose whether or not we
should delegate this to the Management Committee" bnault says, "reworking
the bylaws you mean?" PhilipC says, "But if we are to revise the bylaws, or
even propose a revision, there should be a temporary committee set up for
that purpose. Ideally it should agree on a limited number of proposals from
which it can submit to the Management Committee, which in turn would have
the final approval." PhilipC says, "yes a reworking" Strangelv-2 says, "A
committee to return with a proposal probably doesn't need to consist
entirely of board members. The management Committee could theoretically
create a subcommittee the board doen't want, givinga creport it doesn't
want, which it is then fully empowered to ignore" Strangelv-2 wants to be
on this committee AlanSteinberg says, "both Philip and I have to some
degree drafted revisions of the bylaws" Scottyg says, "Point of
order...Actual revision of the Bylaws can only be done by the Board. (One
of the few things not delegated to the Management Committee." pjbanyai
says, "We actually have an inactive bylaws team. It could be re-activated
as a committee or subcommittee." PhilipC says, "Peter, if you're here, I'd
like your input. You sent an e-mail recently suggesting that we should
refrain from any revisions for a year or so." Scottyg says, "That has
nothing to do with delegation 0of the task of proposing amendments to a
committee." Strangelv-2 hasn't workeid on the Moon Society's bylaws since
2008, but has worked on county and state level po/litical party rules and
bylaws, as well as being a delegate forl changes to national party bylaws
and rules. Strangelv-2 says, "Scotty would be valuble o have on the
subcommittee as he was the main author of the changes made in 2008"
Strangelv-2 says, "...and did all the research" pjbanyai says, "Section 2.
Amendment Proposals: Amendments may be proposed by the Board of Directors
on its own initiative, or upon petition of fifty (50) members addressed to
the Secretary. " Strangelv-2 says, "So the subcommittee's recommendation
would then need to be formally proposued my a motio of the board itself"
Scottyg says, "I think that' a formality that does not prevent appointment
of a committee to make recommendations." PhilipC says, "While the BoD might
have the f inal say, I'd still like the input from elected officers"
Scottyg says, "Like you said James." PhilipC says, "and team leaders"
pjbanyai says, "This does not say it ammendments must be proposed by voting
Directors. " bnault says, "A committe could prepare a draft, present it to
the MC which could approve it and send it to the BOD, yes?" PhilipC says,
"Hence why I don't think it matters who holds the committee, so long as it
held" PhilipC says, "Ben, that would be fine with me." pjbanyai says, "Any
bylaws committee would consist of all Directors and Officers." PhilipC
says, "i.e. the Management Committee" bnault says, "I believe the MC would
be the right place to debate the initial draft, maybe suggest changes,
etc." PhilipC says, "Alan, would you be amenable to tabling this topic and
letting the MC pick it up?" AlanSteinberg says, "sure" PhilipC says, "So
moved." PhilipC says, "Next item - a Communications Committee" PhilipC
says, "I would like to throw the general question first, do we have a
communications team?" pjbanyai says, "Technically it would be a
subcommittee. Offically The Management Committee also consists of
non-voting members which may not be officers." PhilipC says, "Paul, the
discussion is tabled. We can talk about that at the MC meeting." PhilipC
says, "Is there a current Communications Team or Committee?" bnault says,
"no communication team per se. Traditionally, the President represent the
MS in various contexts." AlanSteinberg says, "so what would this
communications committee do? " pjbanyai says, "Sorry one of the problems
with the MOO. Statements can be posted in the wrong spot at the wrong
time." PhilipC says, "The reason I ask is because I'm sure that all of you
have read the e-mail from Mohandis Pradeep, our India Chapter Chair?"
PhilipC says, "Paul, no problem." bnault says, "yes, I read it" PhilipC
says, "Well one way we can respond to Mohandas' inquiry about "what we can
do to get Indians involved" is to do market research to better understand
the Indian space community." PhilipC says, "I would like to see a
communications committee that would be tasked with performing
marketing/communications research, crafting campaign strategies, and
developing messages appropriate to different groups" bnault says, "I feel
cautious about this...we have a tendency to over-reach in trying to do more
things than our actual people resources can actually do. I am OK with a
committee but only if we have someone who is willing to pick that work."
dcarson says, "does anyone send a thank you when we get a donation for
example?" pjbanyai says, "The ASI had an Electronic Communications
Technical Committee it was ultimately responsible for all online
communication including the web page, mailing lists, MOO, etc."
AlanSteinberg says, "do we have people with the time and energy to take on
this responsibility? if not, this might be a moot topic at this time"
PhilipC says, "If you look at the recent post on our facebook page by
Nicholas Eftiamides, the former chair of the DoD space program, and a
current attache with the British Embassy, who talks about "strategic public
affairs", a communications committee would serve this role" PhilipC says,
"James Gholston has a degree in sociology and I have a degree in political
communications. Both of us are familiar with how to conduct sociological
research" PhilipC says, "Peter also discussed previously about the need of
developing a press release capability" bnault says, "Are you offering
yourself as a member of the communications team?" bnault says, "maybe even
its leader?" PhilipC says, "I see this as an ideal way for me to apply my
skills to this organization" AlanSteinberg says, "Seriously? we are going
to start efforts to conduct "sociological reserach" when we can't even get
our leadership in order and clean up our website?" Strangelv-2 raises his
hand for this too, although he's in no shape to do much of anything today
bnault says, "Well then I support your candidacy. We have needed someone to
step on this for a while." Strangelv-2 says, "The website is probabyl a
more urgent priority" PhilipC says, "Alan, market research involves
chaining questionnaires and interviews" bnault says, "the website is PART
of the communication problem..." Strangelv-2 says, "But we have mulitple
tasks we need to be making progress on" AlanSteinberg says, "We are still
also working on that guidestar thing and getting our books in oder. Perhaps
we should focus on these 4 projects for now and once one of them gets
finished start a new one?" pjbanyai says, "I believ the web committee
should simply be rebranded as the Electronic Communications Technical
Committee. All of the old ASI ECTC team should be transfered to
moonsociety.org and the MOO ECTC office be linked to that team." PhilipC
says, "Do I get the sense that we should put a communications committee on
hold then?" Strangelv-2 says, "This committee as i understand it is broader
in scope" Strangelv-2 says, "The ECTC would be a better rebranding for the
web team" PhilipC says, "Yes, but it would serve a strategic role for this
organization in fulfilling its mission in ways that a mere web presence
would not" pjbanyai says, "so General Communications Committee and
Electronic Communications Technical Sub-Committee" bnault says, "I guess
this an example of why we have been used to hashing out issue in the MC and
only moving things up to the BOD when ready." AlanSteinberg says, "does it
really matter what we call it? can we just get the website finished and
then discuss future projects?" PhilipC says, "Fair enough. " bnault says,
"yes, website first priority." PhilipC says, "Then I move to table the
communications committee until some future date." AlanSteinberg says, "Ben,
this is why the BOD and the MC should just be one in the same... ha ha"
PhilipC says, "exactly" AlanSteinberg says, "second" Rose/Miros says,
"public website fiorst, then move the tean stuff as needed?" PhilipC says,
"Third and last item - a Legal Committee." AlanSteinberg says, "that would
do what?" PhilipC says, "It has come to my understanding from Rose
regarding infringement issues from another organization." PhilipC says,
"Rose, would you care to elaborate." PhilipC says, "A brief summary"
Rose/Miros says, "um, i'm not sure of all the details..." Rose/Miros says,
"but someone owns moonsociety.COM" Strangelv-2: moonsociety.com: Luna
Society International -- Official Website of the Moon Society PhilipC says,
"A legal committee would function as a subcommittee of the BoD or MC to
focus on addressing issues that we may need to take legal action on. "
Rose/Miros says, "can we afford a cease and desist order?" PhilipC says,
"It would ideally also give us a clearing house for ITAR compliance"
pjbanyai says, "The NSS BYLaws have the following: General Counsel
[OFFICER]: The General Counsel shall be the principal legal advisor for the
Society and shall provide such advice and perform such other duties as may
be prescribed by the Board of Directors or the Executive Committee. The
General Counsel shall serve as an ex-officio member, without the right to
vote or to be counted as part of a quorum, of the Executive Committee."
PhilipC says, "My point is that this seems serious enough to warrant the
establishment of a committee in addressing these issues." Rose/Miros says,
"it's gotten this serious because no one did anything about it 10 years
ago" PhilipC says, "I am NOT saying that we need to discuss these issues
right now, but to delegate that task to others who would look at this more
fully" AlanSteinberg says, "i would say a general council would be enough
rather than a committee" Strangelv-2 is not someone to sit in this chair
but definitely wants this matter finally dealt with PhilipC says, "It would
seem to me that a general counsel would involve a lawyer who we either hire
or who works for us pro-bono" PhilipC says, "whereas a legal committee
could look into issues more fully and then offer the BoD or MC
recommendations for follow-up action" pjbanyai says, "We could put out a
request from all members that we are looking to fill a new officer
position." PhilipC says, "Paul, that would involve changing the bylaws"
Rose/Miros says, "which we're doing anyhow" Strangelv-2 says, "And
something we can't change with bylaws: the management committee must hawve
more directors thatn officers from what I've been told" PhilipC says, "the
beauty about a committee is that it can be disbanded once the threats are
over and we won't be left with a defunct position" PhilipC says,
"currently, we do" PhilipC says, "there are 3 BoD members here and 2
officers" pjbanyai says, "As I have stated The Management Committee has
appointed several positions which are not in the Bylaws." Strangelv-2 says,
"5 directors, 4 officers" PhilipC says, "that makes them team leaders, not
officers" Strangelv-2 says, "The other positions aren't counted in that
figure unless we change something" PhilipC says, "But back to the point in
question, should we establish a legal committee or not?" Strangelv-2 says,
"Making them something with vote as well as voice means also adding seats
to the board" pjbanyai says, "Bylaws only say that there are 4 elected
officers with voting rights this does not preclude non-voting officers."
Scottyg says, "That requirement for a majority of the Management committee
to be directors comes from the Texas Business Organizations Code."
Strangelv-2 says, "A subcommittee with possibyl only one member who happens
to be the one doing the legal activity?" PhilipC says, "A subcommittee that
can be disbanded at any time" Strangelv-2 has meen in an organization that
once had lots of single-person subcommittee usntil most of them mere
iliminated in 2002 PhilipC says, "But given that we discuss space
technology to the international community, we're likely to get entangled
with ITAR issues too" Strangelv-2 says, "Vely good point" PhilipC says,
"I'd really like to move this along." dcarson says, "do we have someone
willing and able to do it?" AlanSteinberg says, "probably not" Strangelv-2
says, "Not in this room. We'd need to find the person" bnault says, "we
should find the person first IMHO" bnault says, "that could have other
ideas as to how to proceed re infrigement above" bnault says, "the domain
registration is "private or anonymous". but it has an email address. has
anyone ever tried to email the owner and seeing what their intentions are?"
AlanSteinberg says, "I move to create a legal subcommitte of 1 person to be
appointed by and serve at the leasure of the BOD until such time as the
bylaws are edited to include a general council" PhilipC says, "Ben, do you
second?" bnault says, "second" PhilipC says, "so moved." PhilipC says, "If
there's nothing left, I would like to adjourn" AlanSteinberg says, "so
moved" PhilipC says, "Meeting adjourned." PhilipC says, "Please turn off
the recorder" 
-- End log: Wednesday, November 7, 2012 10:18:23 pm ASI Meeting Server time --

-- Start log: Wednesday, November 7, 2012 10:19:30 pm ASI Meeting Server time -- 
PhilipC says, "The Management Committee is now in session." PhilipC
says, "What do we have for the agenda tonight?" PhilipC says, "The web
committee can give a brief report" PhilipC says, "Is there anything else?"
Strangelv-2 looks at Peter PhilipC says, "Let the record show that 3 board
members, 2 officers, and 2 leaders are present" Strangelv-2 says, "WE
usualyl start with reports" PhilipC says, "BoD = Philip Crume - acting
chairman, Ben Nault, and Alan Steinberg" Strangelv-2 says, "President,
membership, treasury, et c." PhilipC says, "Officers = Paul Banyai, Vice
President, and Dana Carson, Treasurer" PhilipC says, "Leaders = Rose
Dieteman, James Gholston, and Scotty Gammenthaler" PhilipC says, "Beyond
the reports, is there any old or new business?" Strangelv-2 is the wrong
person to answer this question this evening pjbanyai says, "Convincing
member to stay members at the national level or perhaps setting up a
combined national and chapters membership system. At least one chapter
requires national membership to be a member of their chapter." PhilipC
says, "Okay, we will add that as a new business item" bnault says, "plus
Ken's special offer for this weekend" PhilipC says, "and that as well"
PhilipC says, "anything else?" pjbanyai says, "The Web team also requested
a poll of chapter membership at its first meeting." PhilipC says, "But the
web committee already decided that it is already in the chapter
coordinator's jurisdiction to handle that. We just need to formally request
that he does so" PhilipC says, "But we can add that as another agenda item
if you'd like" PhilipC says, "So far we have:" PhilipC says, "Committee
reports" PhilipC says, "1)" Rose/Miros says, "can we make the request as
part of the report?" PhilipC says, "New business" PhilipC says, "1)
Membership dues" PhilipC says, "2) Membership special offer" PhilipC says,
"3) Chapter survey" PhilipC says, "Anything else?" PhilipC says, "Is this
agenda acceptable?" Strangelv-2 says, "Bylaws subcommittee" PhilipC says,
"thank you, 4) Bylaws subcommittee" bnault says, "yes, it is acceptable to
me" pjbanyai says, "I thought we did formally request it. Is the Web
{Administration} [Project] Team now replaced by the Web Committee?" PhilipC
says, "Yes" PhilipC says, "I need a second to approve the bylaws" PhilipC
says, "i mean the agenda" pjbanyai says, "So didi we demote Rose from
haveing a stafff team?" PhilipC says, "Rose is still web master, but it was
decided that a BoD member needed to lead the committee, which I have been
doing" PhilipC says, "This topic is out of order, I'm looking for a second
to approve the agenda" bnault says, "second" PhilipC says, "So moved."
PhilipC says, "Reports" PhilipC says, "Membership" kokhmmm says,
"Membership was 177 last I looked" PhilipC says, "Treasurer" kokhmmm says,
"Yup still 177 that is about 30 higher than last year" PhilipC says, "My
apologies" PhilipC says, "Peter, is there anything else you'd like to add?"
dcarson says, "on track to finish by the end of the month" PhilipC says, "I
take that as a no." PhilipC says, "Dana, anything else to report?" kokhmmm
says, "Yes, I just totally redid and added to the theme issues" kokhmmm
says, "http://www.moonsociety.org/publications/mmm_themes/index.html"
kokhmmm says, "There are 13 now" dcarson says, "recieved the packet of
statements from Scotty" kokhmmm says, "I have to create indexes yet for two
of them" pjbanyai says, "Teamdir has both a Web Maintenance team[currently
inactive] and a Web Team. I suggest we designate the Web Maintenance team
as the Committee (which it may have been originally) with Phil as team
leader. Then have the Web team as the Web Project team or Rose's team. The
Web team page has key files for the rest of the website." dcarson says,
"thats it for me" kokhmmm says, "I can update pages that need updating."
Scottyg says, "Paul, the Web Maintenance Team is special and shouldn't be
used for a different purpose." PhilipC says, "Thank you Dana" kokhmmm says,
"Now that I have the hang of my new WYSIWYG editor" pjbanyai says, "That is
what I am saying. The Web Team and commitee have been confused." PhilipC
says, "Paul, let's hold that discussion for after the web committee report"
Scottyg says, "No, the Web Maintenance Team exists to control access to
updating the parts of the home page." PhilipC says, "Peter, is there
anything else you'd like to report" AlanSteinberg says, "it can probably
just be one team/committee" PhilipC says, "Peter, thank you for your
report." PhilipC says, "Now for the web committee report" PhilipC says, "At
the end of the last Management Committee meeting, it was decided that the
web team would transition into a new web committee which would be tasked
with upgrading our website." PhilipC says, "It was also decided that a BoD
member should lead this committee, to which I have been selected." PhilipC
says, "We had two meetings since the Oct. 17th MC meeting." PhilipC says,
"One immediately following the meeting and the second on Tuesday Oct 30"
PhilipC says, "the main objective of the first was to establish a goal,
which was fulfilled at the second, of the task of taking an inventory of
all Moon Society web and information assets" PhilipC says, "The project
management strategy I would like to take is:" PhilipC says, "1) take an
inventory" PhilipC says, "2) Determine what exists in the marketplace to
replace those assets" Rose/Miros says, "or retain whatwe've got" PhilipC
says, "3) Determine a range of options given our labor potential " pjbanyai
says, "I just looked at the MC meeting it did not replace the Web [Project]
team but placed it under control of the Web Committee." PhilipC says, "4)
Have the MC determine which course of action to take" PhilipC says, "Paul,
next time please say Point of order, it clarifies things for the log "
PhilipC says, "5) Develop a project management strategy for implementing
that course of action" PhilipC says, "6) Develop and test the plan action"
PhilipC says, "7) Go live" pjbanyai says, "Okay. Point of Order: The Web
[Project] team is Rose's staff." PhilipC says, "The web committee's next
meeting would involve "looking at the store catalog to see what's
available"" kokhmmm has disconnected. Rose/Miros says, "point of disorder,
philip is better at organizing in a top down manner; i'm doing proof of
concept stuff" PhilipC says, "Paul, as committee chair, I am primarily
providing strategic direction and management" PhilipC says, "But thank you
" PhilipC says, "That concludes my report" PhilipC says, "Discussion?"
Rose/Miros says, "can i make a report after the discussion?" Scottyg says,
"Philip, may I add a comment or two to your report?" bnault says, "how long
do you expect each step will take?" bnault says, "at least points 1-3"
Rose/Miros says, "1 is done, i belive" PhilipC says, "Ben, I would like to
have a list of options by the first meeting of next month" Rose/Miros says,
"it's november, this month" PhilipC says, "I will try to have it sooner but
the longer we take in expanding the "store catalog" the better our solution
will be" bnault says, "next meeting is Nov 21, realistic?" PhilipC says,
"There aren't that many CRMs, ERPs, and assets out there" PhilipC says,
"The challenge is to figure out what we're capable of doing given those
options" The housekeeper arrives to cart kokhmmm off to bed. pjbanyai says,
"Next Town Hall meeting is Nov 14. We can ask on the facebook discussion
group if anyone has any options for us." PhilipC says, "In the meantime,
I'd strongly encourage the MC to think about a wishlist of capabilities"
dcarson says, "I probably will be out of touch on the 31st, or at least at
a hotle" dcarson says, "21st" PhilipC says, "The best way to proceed in my
opinion is for the web committee to take direction from the MC and then to
develop a limited range of options of what we can do to fulfill those
requirements" bnault says, "are we thinking about a end-to-end solution web
frontend with backend CRM-ERP? with e-commerce?" bnault says, "e-commerce
meaning online payment of dues" PhilipC says, "As of right now, everything
is on the table until we take it off" bnault says, "OK" PhilipC says, "If
we realistically can't do something, we won't offer it" PhilipC says, "But
outside of what the MC wants and what we can do, we hope that you'll be
happy with the menu we provide" Rose/Miros says, "this is a wishlist, ask
for anything" PhilipC says, "Send your list to me and I'll share it with
the web committee" PhilipC says, "If there's nothing left for discussion,
Rose wanted to add something" pjbanyai says, "Phil could you and Ken setup
a general agenda for the Town hall Meeting and send it to me. I will attach
it to the facebook invite that I will send to all Facebook group members
and post on our FB page. " Rose/Miros says, "like i said, i'm doing proof
of concept" PhilipC says, "Sure" Rose/Miros says, "so i'm having people do
specific tasks" Rose/Miros says, "scotty finally did something i've been
asking the wrong people about for 10 years -- we can now track where people
heard about moon society/saw an invite of some sort to join" Rose/Miros
says, "so when you do a presentat ion or hand out, put a PROMO CODE on it"
Rose/Miros says, "just make something up" Rose/Miros says, "the facebook
page is FB12, soon to be FB13" Rose/Miros says, "yahoo group is YA12, soon
to be YA13" Strangelv-2 has seen another one for the Yahoo! group
Rose/Miros pokes at Strangelv-2. Strangelv-2 eiher needed to type that
faster or slower Rose/Miros says, "yep" pjbanyai says, "I really wish for
Apache Wave on our site. It is designed with all the best attributes of the
MOO, Skype, email, and forums. " Rose/Miros says, "that probably won't
happen" PhilipC says, "Paul, send it to me" pjbanyai says, "It would make
our meetings so much more effective." Rose/Miros says, "can i finish?"
PhilipC says, "Please do" Rose/Miros says, "I also got book access by role
working on the drupal mock up site, so i need some of dana's time to see if
we can get team dir to set peple's roles and therefore what they can see on
the site" Rose/Miros says, "this is a proof of concept thing again, so we
don't pick drupal and find out it can't do this" Rose/Miros says, "in terms
of the mock up, i'd like to get the page contents pasted n, so we can
fiddle with it, this is the PUBLIC PORTIION of the site" Rose/Miros says,
"i'm assuming the website priority is get a prett y site up, but make su re
we can support the team content and whatnot, to be implemented later"
Rose/Miros says, "i do tend to start in the middlean work up and down"
Rose/Miros says, "ok, that's abou t it for me" PhilipC says, "Thank you."
pjbanyai says, "The face book page has an html app which could be used for
registration if properly coded. Maybe pass the promo code though to the
registration page." bnault says, "I have a question" PhilipC says, "Ben"
Strangelv-2 says, "Mike wishes for a 3D environment based on the
architecture of the MOO environment (Hotel, LunaComms building, monorail,
surface, Clawsone H_mestead, et c.). The server he found runs on Linux and
also MS Windows and uses any compatible SecondLife client. Obviously this
is a longer term objecmtive if pursued than the web site. This might fit in
wvith what's being brought up now, thus my mentioning it for future
reference" PhilipC says, "James, please send your wish list to me via
email" Strangelv-2 says, "I don'ht have one right now" bnault says, "is
team dir the only option being considered to handle role mgmt?" Strangelv-2
says, "I'll see what i" Strangelv-2 says, "I'll see what i can tnhink of"
Rose/Miros says, "i intend it to be far more seamless" AlanSteinberg says,
"Point of personal privilege: I've got to go, feel free to continue this
discussion without me" Rose/Miros says, "i.e. if you're put on a team, you
instantly have access to the team pages and whatnot, without having to
rebuild access control files and whatnot" PhilipC says, "Alan, if a bylaws
committee is to be formed would you want to be on it?" Rose/Miros says,
"not if you're put on a team, someone has to give you access to relevant
moo areas AND rebuild the access control files so you can get to the team
pages from the web" Rose/Miros says, "now, not not" Strangelv-2 wishes to
be on the bylaws subcommittee AlanSteinberg says, "Philip I can be, but I
don't have to be" PhilipC says, "Alan, if you leave, we'll no longer have
quorum." Strangelv-2 wants Scotty on it as well AlanSteinberg says, "is
there something left to vote on?" PhilipC says, "I request that we move
forward discussion of the bylaws committee " PhilipC says, "so that we can
vote on it" PhilipC says, "is this acceptable?" Rose/Miros says, "ok, i'm
going to bail,, it's very cold here and i'm typoing worse than usual"
Rose/Miros waves. Strangelv-2 lacks the authocrity to so move the motion
bnault says, "if Alan can hang around a bit, yes" AlanSteinberg says,
"okay... can we make it quick, we've been going off on web talk for the
lsat 30 mins" Rose/Miros goes South. Strangelv-2 says, "WE'le also 10
minutes past our scheduled time" bnault says, "do we need a motion" PhilipC
says, "my apologies" PhilipC says, "Yes" Strangelv-2 says, "As Phil is
chairing he can't make the motion either" pjbanyai says, "Some of the Moo
is linked directly to team membership. The Communications Shack is directly
linked to membership in the ASI ECTC. Only ECTC members can enter the
room." bnault says, "motion to discuss the bylaws subcommittee"
AlanSteinberg says, "second" Strangelv-2 lacks standing to call the
question bnault says, "ok, who wants to be on this subcommittee?" PhilipC
says, "We tabled the formation of a Bylaws revision committee in the BoD.
We now pick it up in this MC meeting." Strangelv-2 says, "Discussion? The
chair can ask if there's objection to calling the question" PhilipC says,
"Is there any objection to calling the question of the formation of an ad
hoc bylaws revision sub committee?" AlanSteinberg says, "no" Scottyg says,
"I move that we form a bylaws revision committee." Strangelv-2 says,
"Sounhs /like it's time to vote" PhilipC says, "Ben?" PhilipC says, "Dana?"
PhilipC says, "Paul?" bnault says, "second" dcarson says, "aye" pjbanyai
says, "We could simply reactivate the bylaws team with team leader approval
for joining." Strangelv-2 says, "The motion is already made and seconded"
PhilipC says, "All in favor of forming an ad hoc Bylaws Revision Committee,
say aye" dcarson says, "aye" Scottyg says, "aye" bnault says, "aye"
AlanSteinberg says, "aye" pjbanyai says, "aye" PhilipC says, "the ayes have
it" PhilipC says, "We can discuss who can join it in a moment" PhilipC
says, "I think this concludes any other business that requires votes"
Scottyg says, "BTW, there is a Bylaws Revision Team we can use for this
purpose." Strangelv-2 wou/ld move to adjourn but lacks standing to do so
PhilipC says, "Now that if anyone leaves, it would cause us to lose quorum
but that won't matter" PhilipC says, "So anyone who wishes to leave can be
free to do so." AlanSteinberg says, "in that case... i'm out" PhilipC says,
"thank you for coming" AlanSteinberg has disconnected. Strangelv-2 tries to
avoid using the Q word. HE's seen nothing but messiness and floor fights
with that bnault says, "so who wants in on this subcommittee? Scotty,
James, Philip. Yes?" Strangelv-2 waves. PhilipC says, "yes" pjbanyai says,
"Scotty was the team Leader of the Bylaws team. It has a mailing list but
no file directory or private web page." Scottyg says, "Yeah, put me on it.
I can at least provide historical perspective." pjbanyai says, "Email is
bylaws@moonsociety.org" PhilipC says, "thank you" bnault says, "So, the
team is Philip, Scotty and James." PhilipC says, "I think this time it
would be appropriate for a non-board member to chair that committee"
PhilipC says, "Scotty or James?" Strangelv-2 says, "Scotty" Strangelv-2
says, "He has more experience with this specific document" PhilipC says,
"scotty, do you accept?" pjbanyai says, "Scotty, Peter and myself are
already on the team. I suggest that Scotty remain as team leader." bnault
says, "ooops, forgot Paul, sorry." Scottyg says, "Thanks for the vote of
confidence but I think it would be better if it was headed by someone who
is pushing making changes." Strangelv-2 is not in the pushing makin changes
category either bnault says, "Paul?" Strangelv-2 would argue for minimal
fixes to bring things better in line with pactice and attempted practice
Strangelv-2 says, "and maybe c/larity" PhilipC says, "I've already
submitted two versions of my revisions, one that maintains the status quo
and one that has a deeper restructuring so as to allow the President to
preside" PhilipC says, "But as I said, I'll support someone else leading
this" PhilipC says, "Paul?" The housekeeper arrives to cart AlanSteinberg
off to bed. Strangelv-2 says, "I might take it if everyoe else is running
away from the task" Strangelv-2 says, "Just remember that my energies are
limited by my health. I pwill need help" Strangelv-2 also needs to recover
from yesterday and Monday pjbanyai says, "I think the final version will
probably include some of both Phils version as well as more material which
has not been thought about yet." Scottyg says, "I'm not exactly declining,
but like I said, in this case I don't think I'm the best choice."
Strangelv-2 has more confidence in Scotty than himself Strangelv-2 says,
"If it' mostly presiding over meetings I can do that in my sleep" PhilipC
says, "Mainly that and presenting the final report" Scottyg says, "Last
time, I had a vision for what I wanted to accomplish, I don't feel like I
have that same vision this time." Strangelv-2 says, "You definitely handled
that excellently. We've not run into any snags again until now" PhilipC
says, "Why don't we decide on a chair at the first meeting?" PhilipC says,
"We can e-mail one another back and forth to decide when that will be "
PhilipC says, "Just as long as we know who wants to be on it" PhilipC says,
"Is that acceptable?" Strangelv-2 has no objection Lunadyne has arrived.
Scottyg says, "That's acceptable to me." Strangelv-2 cheers loudly.
pjbanyai says, "I believe the team is more along the lines of an editorial
project team. Ideally the bylaws should be placed on google docs with easy
access to sharing, versioning and editing." PhilipC says, "welcome Ken"
Strangelv-2 says, "IY believe we have quorum again" PhilipC says, "nope"
Lunadyne says, "Don't mind me, just lurking. Just got to a hotel outside
Cleveland." bnault says, "we still haven't discussed Ken request for a
special rate for the weekend, and we are way over time." PhilipC says,
"Ken, perhaps we can meet for coffee tomorrow" Lunadyne says, "In Buffalo?"
Strangelv-2 counts five noses on the management committee. Unless Dana's
not realyl here PhilipC says, "I live in the outer suburbs of cleveland"
Lunadyne says, "Cool. Cell # is 214-507-7911." PhilipC says, "James, there
needs to be more board members than officers" dcarson says, "I'm still
here" Strangelv-2 says, "On the committee but notn for a meeting"
Strangelv-2 says, "This is why we've been able to keep quorum with it"
Scottyg says, "Philip. I don't think that applies for quorum." Strangelv-2
says, "even if most of the hirectors are absenh there maoy be enough
officers" Strangelv-2 says, "To be sure, we could just use our newly found
quorum to officially adjourn ansd constinue discussion..." pjbanyai says,
"Didn't we have a Google map somwhere which showed where every member was
located?" PhilipC says, "sorry, Article VIII secion 2" PhilipC says, "But I
recommend that we close discussion on the bylaws revision committee. "
PhilipC says, "Ken, any interest in being a part of it?" Lunadyne says,
"Sorry, distracted by a book I picked up today in St. Louis. "Space Sex" by
Roy Warren." Lunadyne says, "What am I being shanghaied for?" PhilipC says,
"the bylaws revision committee" Lunadyne says, "Eek!" PhilipC says, "lol"
Strangelv-2 lacks the energy to scream. He's jealous PhilipC says, "yes or
no?" Lunadyne says, "An interesting idea. A chance to craft a new kind of
organization for the 21st century." Strangelv-2 says, "uh oh" Strangelv-2
says, "He sounds more ambitious than you" PhilipC says, "it seems so"
Lunadyne says, "A chance to mold the hearts and minds of uncounted new
members through a 21st century structure." PhilipC says, "enough of the
rhetoric already" PhilipC says, "yes or no?" Strangelv-2 hopes thinsgs
remain civil with twvo diametric opposing views on what the committee
should do Lunadyne says, "Yes, mainly because I should probably make sure I
don't get too hamstrung by the rule changes." PhilipC says, "fair enough"
pjbanyai says, "Section 2 (Is flawed and needs corection.) Composition: The
voting members of the BOARD OF DIRECTORS shall consist of all of the Board
members and all of the Officers of the Society, provided however that a
majority of the members of the Management Committee must be Directors. The
Chairman of the Board of Directors shall serve as the Chairman of the
Management Committee. " bnault says, "guys, we've passed the 2.5 hours
mark. I need to leave to attend to some other things." PhilipC says, "Paul,
let's discuss that later" PhilipC says, "Thank you for staying Ben"
Strangelv-2 would again attempt a motion to adjourn but hasn't had standing
to do so since 2009 bnault says, "Till next time!" Strangelv-2 waves.
bnault has disconnected. PhilipC says, "Now back to where we were before, I
think James or Scotty wanted to add something?" Strangelv-2 says, "And
we've lost quorum again" Lunadyne says, "Does that mean this meeting can
never end?" PhilipC says, "Not until we get through the agenda" Strangelv-2
says, "That seems to have already been a feature" PhilipC says, "lol"
Strangelv-2 says, "You're trapped" dcarson says, "Roy Warren is not in the
ISFDB, wander by and enter it please" Lunadyne says, "Dana, I think it's
more smut than sci-fi." pjbanyai says, "Ken The Town Hall Meeting is next
week. I had previously asked Phil if he and you could setup a general
agenda for the Town hall Meeting and send it to me. I will attach it to the
facebook invite that I will send to all Facebook group members and post on
our FB page. " PhilipC says, "We got stuck on web committee reports and
then had to move forward the 4th item on the agenda" Strangelv-2 offers
salt & flesh ground pepper potato chips PhilipC says, "so as to vote on the
formation of an ad hoc bylaws committee" Strangelv-2 says, "That passed
without objection" Scottyg says, "I wanted to add that Randall Severy
attended the last web committee meeting and we were able to get
clarification on a number issues that we will soom be looking at." PhilipC
says, "there's still the matter of the membership dues item and allowing a
discount on the membership dues" pjbanyai says, "Ken The Bylaws team is
active in teamdir. Currently requests to join are forwarded to Scotty."
Strangelv-2 says, "Without a quorum we can't act. Table, I'd say" PhilipC
says, "I think next time I need to hash out a committee report and submit
it before this meeting" PhilipC says, "But anyway" Strangelv-2 says, "or i
it postpone" PhilipC says, "Shall we table the membership items until the
next meeting?" Strangelv-2 says, "There's one action that would put it on
the next agenda.p It's not table" PhilipC says, "Table does not mean throw
away" PhilipC says, "It can be picked up later" Strangelv-2 says,
"Sometimes it does, actually..." The housekeeper arrives to cart bnault off
to bed. Strangelv-2 says, "When there's no way enough people will vote to
pick it back up" Lunadyne says, "In the absence of a discounted SEDS
membership, any way the Join Us! web page can be prettied up by this
weekend?" PhilipC says, "Rose dropped out of the meeting earlier, still has
no heat" PhilipC says, "You might be able to see her later tomorrow"
PhilipC says, "If there is no objection to tabling the remainder of the
agenda, we can adjourn" Strangelv-2 says, "s/tablinsg/postponing/" Scottyg
says, "Ken, are you referring to: http://www.moonsociety.org/register/ "
PhilipC says, "Any second to tabling the remainder of the agenda?" PhilipC
says, "Any one?" dcarson says, "second" Strangelv-2 says, "Is there
objection to postponing the remainder of teh agenda until the next
meeting?" Scottyg says, "I don't see a motion to second. I move to table
the remainder of the agenda to next meeting." PhilipC says, "Tabling simply
means you put the proposal on the table. It only gets thrown out in the
next election cycle" pjbanyai says, "Should we move everything to the Nov
21 meeting or should some be discussed at the Town hall next week?"
Strangelv-2 says, "It also doesn't get added to the agenda" PhilipC says,
"I'd recommend the Nov. 21 meeting" Strangelv-2 tries to remember anything
appropirate for a town hall mting aside from featuer reqjuests for a
revamped web site PhilipC says, "I think the only thing the chairman can
propose is to adjourn. So I move to adjourn" PhilipC says, "any second?"
Strangelv-2 says, "Is there objection to adjoiurning at this time?" dcarson
says, "none here" PhilipC says, "Is there any objection to adjourning at
this time?"" Scottyg says, "I second the motion to adjourn." PhilipC says,
"This meeting is now adjourned." PhilipC says, "We need Peter to write up
the minutes for this meeting and send it to the leaders@moonsociety.org"
Scottyg says, "Whoever gets the email log from the recorder needs to
forward it to Peter." Ten minutes later, someone objects. PhilipC says,
"Ken, we have separate recorded meetings for the BoD meeting and this MC
meeting. Ben, Alan, and I were the voting members at the BoD meeting. They
voted me as chairman. But Paul requested a confirming vote from the other
two board members, which I approve of. " dcarson says, "will do and will
send the raw log to the leaders list" PhilipC says, "As I said before, I
support revising the bylaws so that the President is the presiding
authority " Strangelv-2 says, "I wouldn't make itn automatic, justan option
for the boarld to choose" PhilipC says, "e-mail 272 on recorder" pjbanyai
says, "I think there is still a problem with the email log. Dana and I have
simply sent our own copy of the log." Strangelv-2 says, "As an officerl but
not a board mebber he would not have teh power to break ties" 
-- End log: Wednesday, November 7, 2012 11:52:16 pm ASI Meeting Server time --