-- Start log: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 9:23:07 pm ASI Meeting Server time-- 
PhilipC says, "Thank you, the Moon Society Management Committee has now
started" Rose/Miros says, "Wednesday April 17 2013, 21:23:20 edt" PhilipC
says, "The minutes for the previous meeting are not ready. Hopefully they
will be at the next meeting." PhilipC says, "Will all who are present
please state your name and position." PhilipC says, "Philip Crume,
Chairman" Lunadyne says, "Ken Murphy, President" dcarson says, "Dana
Carson, Treasurer" Rose/Miros says, "Rosalie Dieteman, WEbmaster"
Strangelv-2 says, "James Gholston, former director" PhilipC says, "Paul?"
pjbanyai says, "Paul Banyai, Vice President" PhilipC says, "A point of
order" PhilipC says, "Has James been appointed to replace Peter as the
Secretary?" Strangelv-2 says, "No, that did not happen" Strangelv-2 says,
"So I do not count towards quorum" PhilipC says, "Ok, until we will have to
wait until another voting members comes. Perhaps we can resolve that
tonight" Strangelv-2 says, "I am still interested in the position, but we
need the board to do that" Lunadyne says, "I move we appoint James Gholston
as ad hoc Secretary." PhilipC says, "We can't vote" PhilipC says, "We don't
have quorum" PhilipC says, "But he is already serving as acting secretary"
Lunadyne says, "Just trying to use my prerogative as President to fill out
my team as needed due to the exigency of the existing Secretary being
unable to access the forum." PhilipC says, "I will talk to the board to see
if we can have a quick meeting before the start of the May meeting"
pjbanyai says, "Without a Quorum we can not resolve anything. We can
however forward a motion for an email vote to everyone." PhilipC says,
"That sounds reasonable to me" PhilipC says, "Ken has a motion, any
second?" Strangelv-2 says, "We can still give reports, and theer's
something important in an email from Peter that we should probably discuss
but I've not read" PhilipC says, "Paul? Dana?" PhilipC says, "Another point
of order, if this motion is seconded, we will not vote on it in this
session. I will submit the vote to the Leaders listserv for a vote of the
whole management committee" PhilipC says, "Is there a second for Ken's
motion?" PhilipC says, "I move that we table this motion until we're ready
to discuss new business" PhilipC says, "We need to move on" Lunadyne says,
"Fine, I withdraw my motion." PhilipC says, "It's time for reports. Ken, do
you have a membership report?" Lunadyne says, "At last check membership
stood at 169." PhilipC says, "Thank you" Lunadyne says, "This continues the
gentle downward trend I'm anticipating until the website is updated."
Lunadyne says, "We can anticipate a drop when the ISDC courtesy memberships
roll off. About a dozen folks." PhilipC says, "Is Dana ready to submit a
treasurer report?" Lunadyne says, "We can offset this with courtesy
memberships for this year's speakers." Lunadyne says, "That is all."
PhilipC says, "Thank you" dcarson says, "got a couple of names from my tac
acct., will contact them to see if they can do an audit for us" dcarson
says, "tax acct." Lunadyne says, "Excellent." bnault has arrived. dcarson
says, "hopefully will have a canidate by next meeting" PhilipC says, "have
we spent any money since last time? I take it that our bank account balance
has remained the same?" dcarson says, "nothing else to report, keeping
quickbooks up to date" PhilipC says, "For the record, Ben Nault is noted
has having arrived. We now have quorum" dcarson says, "no new expenses"
bnault says, "sorry for being late" PhilipC says, "So our balance to date
is..." dcarson says, "haven't seen a newer one then last update" PhilipC
says, "fair enough" dcarson says, "about 31 thousand" PhilipC says, "it's
probably sufficient that we get financial updates once a month or so"
PhilipC says, "ok" PhilipC says, "is there anything else to report?"
dcarson says, "not here" Lunadyne says, "Still think we should move $10K
into a CD." dcarson says, "agreed" dcarson says, "maybe even 20" PhilipC
says, "we're moving ahead of ourselves" Lunadyne says, "No, no more than
$15K. Remember, we owe a bunch of cash on MMM." PhilipC says, "the next
two, perhaps three major items on the agenda are: the website, the
allocation of our funds, and life after the website upgrade" dcarson says,
"true" PhilipC says, "should we discuss the fund allocation first and then
the website or the other way around?" Rose/Miros says, "i have a thought on
the last, i keep forgetting to send it around to get on the agenda"
Lunadyne says, "Philip, it does seem to follow from the Treasury
discussion." PhilipC says, "Ok, then let's move on to the fund allocation"
PhilipC says, "As of the last meeting, Ken, James, and I were placed in an
ad hoc committee to study the issue" PhilipC says, "Since no one was
assigned to lead, I'll just summarize what took place so far" PhilipC says,
"So far, we met briefly after the meeting and had a good discussion on a
variety of possibilities." PhilipC says, "But after this meeting, I made a
note to Ken that in addition to considering how to invest these funds, we
also need to consider life after the website upgrade, and most specifically
to think about organizational growth" PhilipC says, "We haven't reached any
conclusions" PhilipC says, "Either the Management Committee here can let us
bat around this issue again for another 2 weeks or we can discuss it as the
whole body. " Lunadyne says, "I don't think we should wait on setting up a
CD." PhilipC says, "What are you thought? Do you want to continue to
delegate this issue to the strategic investment subcommittee or pick it up
for a general discussion?" PhilipC says, "...thoughts..." Strangelv-2 is
skeptical on the value of a certificate of deposit that's netting a
negative real interest rate Strangelv-2 says, "Right now is a big huge
opening in progress for precious metal" Rose/Miros says, "what if we get a
3 month one, that gives 3 months to pick something else" dcarson says,
"general discussion for 10-25 minutes at most, lets not discuss forever,
but ideas are good" Strangelv-2 says, "I don't know how long it will be
open before it goes back up" Lunadyne says, "As opposed to a non-interest
bearing checking account with an even more negative return?" PhilipC says,
"Is everyone here amenable to limiting discussion for 10 minutes?"
Strangelv-2 says, "Anyone got a timer?" PhilipC says, "i have a clock on my
computer" PhilipC says, "until 10 pm then" PhilipC says, "i noted to ken
that we might want to consider buying bonds. " dcarson says, "OK,10
thousand CD, 1 thousand secondary acct with check card, rest in checking"
Lunadyne says, "My suggestion would be to put half into a 12-month CD, the
other half into a 6-month CD that rolls into a 12=month. This gives access
to funds every six months." PhilipC says, "US govt 30Y Bonds are offering
around 3.25% while most CDs are at T-Bill rates which are around 0.10%"
Strangelv-2 says, "gah" Rose/Miros has reconnected. PhilipC says, "We can
sell off bonds after a few months" Lunadyne says, "Wouldn't we have to open
a brokerage account to buy the bonds, or can you still do that at a bank?"
Rose/Miros says, "bigger ones I think you have to buy from a brokerage"
PhilipC says, "not I or J bonds, but securitized bonds. yes i think we
would need a brokerage acct. but online brokerages would work just the
same" PhilipC says, "there are also corporate bonds which are paying over
4%" Strangelv-2 suspects he lacks the ability to predict when the 'sell now
or else' window appears on that. His instinct is to run away screaming
immediately. Strangelv-2 says, "Which corporations are on offer?" PhilipC
says, "James, sorry to break the news but gold is collapsing in value"
Strangelv-2 says, "I'd need to know the details before I'd want to give an
answer" Rose/Miros says, "it'll be back up, india is buying constantly"
Strangelv-2 says, "Right now is a very strong buy window" PhilipC says,
"the precious metals market was in a big bubble and that bubble is likely
collapsing" Strangelv-2 says, "But I can't explain the situation in our
available time, and probably need to be more awake to do it" Lunadyne says,
"Paper gold is dropping. If we tasked Dana with buying 2 oz. of physical
gold I doubt he could." Rose/Miros says, "definitely not paper gold"
Strangelv-2 says, "Ken said it a lot more succinctly" PhilipC says, "the
whole point of investing money is to see a better return than what we're
getting now" Strangelv-2 says, "Than I'd do right now. Thank you" PhilipC
says, "the other issue is how much we should invest" PhilipC says, "me
personally, I'd like to set up a communications committee after this
website upgrade, and I'd like a large enough warchest to grow our members
to 3-5k" Strangelv-2 says, "Right now is the time to grab physical metal
while the price is depressed and the shortages are'nt as severe as they
will become if the paper market continues to have problems" Strangelv-2
says, "The last time there were shortages it was held together by adding
high premiums to physical metal" Lunadyne says, "We seem to have something
of a consensus on $10K put aside. I really don't want us to become an
investing club, which is why I prefer a CD for the time being." Strangelv-2
says, "If it gets worse, the pricqes could decouple altogether" Strangelv-2
says, "How quickly can we bail ot of a CD?" bnault says, "I'm with Ken,
btw" PhilipC says, "you can bail out of a CD at anytime, but there are
penalties for withdrawing" Strangelv-2 says, "How strong a penalty?"
Rose/Miros says, "james, the more you talk precious metals, themore I want
to run away screaming -- sounds like a worse investment all the time"
PhilipC says, "plus the interest rates on those tend to hover around
0.10-0.15%" dcarson says, "usually you just don't get any interest"
Lunadyne says, "That's why you have a rolling structure. Six months is
simplest, but you could also have 1/4th of the money rolling every 3
months." PhilipC says, "that's why i would recommend usg bonds" PhilipC
says, "we'll see at least 3% interest" Lunadyne says, "I'm not against
setting up a brokerage account for TMS, but my preference would be to wait
until we have the audit done." PhilipC says, "being that we're the reserve
capital of the world, I seriously doubt our financial system is at risk of
collapse" Lunadyne says, "Heh, heh, heh." Strangelv-2 wants to be ready
when the US Dollar makes major steps towards approaching its intrinsic
value at a faster rate than it already is PhilipC says, "I agree with Rose,
I'm not in favor of buying tangible goods" PhilipC says, "alright guys, we
need to wrap up this discussion" Lunadyne says, "The issue I have with
physical gold is who do you trust with it, and how do you assure that it is
not stolen?" Strangelv-2 says, "That is the part that needs work"
Rose/Miros says, "ok, how about this, get the cd for 3 or 6 months to have
a dinky return, but also a non-zero return, then get info about bonds or
longer term cds?" Lunadyne says, "I'm thinking along the same lines."
Lunadyne says, "How about:" dcarson says, "sounds right" Rose/Miros says,
"the only thing scarier than physical gold is paper gold" Strangelv-2 says,
"I suspect we'll need at least three months to come up with a plan we can
all at rleast grudgcingly agree with" Lunadyne says, "Move $10,000 to a CD
(preferably at a credit union to shift risk)" Strangelv-2 says, "But a big
huge opening will very possibyl have closed by then" PhilipC says, "Ok,
then let's put $10k in a 3 month CD and the remainder in a Money Market
checking account" Lunadyne says, "Have $5,000 mature in six months. This
gives us time to investigate a brokerage account and get the audit
finished." Rose/Miros says, "james, you're the only one seeing a huge
opening, the rest of us don't like the idea of gold" Strangelv-2 says,
"WE're out of time to discuss this unless someone wants to extend time"
Strangelv-2 says, "I can discuss it after the meeting" Lunadyne says, "Have
the balance of $5,000 mature in twelve months, when we can decide how to
allocate." PhilipC says, "12 months is too long" Lunadyne says, "3-months
and 6-months? This increases the administrative burden." Rose/Miros says,
"even as slow as we make decisions, 12 months is far too long" PhilipC
says, "we can do better than a CD, but if we need 3-6 months to research
better options, then that's reasonable" PhilipC says, "how about 6 months?"
Lunadyne says, "I think it's going to take at least six months to set up a
brokerage account." Rose/Miros [to decide]: to open a brokerage account, to
actually open one takes days PhilipC says, "If we haven't done so by then,
we can extend it every 3 months after until we've done so" Strangelv-2
says, "A brokerage account could open up other ideas, but again, we're out
of time and need a motion to extent or move on" PhilipC says, "We're 5
minutes beyond time." PhilipC says, "Let's call the question" Strangelv-2
says, "What is the motion?" PhilipC says, "All in favor of putting $10k in
a 6 month CD, say aye. All opposed, nay." dcarson says, "aye" Lunadyne
says, "I move that Dana move $10,000 into a 6-month CD." Lunadyne says,
"aye" Rose/Miros says, "aye, although i have no standing" Strangelv-2 would
say nay, but lacks standing to do so Rose/Miros says, "lol, we cancelled
out" PhilipC says, "aye" bnault says, "aye" pjbanyai says, "aye" PhilipC
says, "The ayes have it. Dana, you are authorized to deposit $10k into a 6
month CD. Preferrably at NASA FCU." PhilipC says, "But any other CU should
suffice" Lunadyne says, "I second NASA FCU." PhilipC says, "Moving on"
Strangelv-2 says, "NASA FCU has a reasonable rating with Weiss. The one I
use is one we can't, even though it has a higher rating" PhilipC says, "The
website upgrade. Rose, you have the floor" Rose/Miros cedes the floor to
Strangelv Rose/Miros says, "he had time to organize his thoughts while i
was doing a supermarket run" Strangelv-2 says, "Standby for flood"
Strangelv-2 says, "Work on the new website has continued without any
significant breaks since the last meeting. A base theme is close to
completion, and work on device specific themes has started, using Scotty's
theme switching module." Strangelv-2 says, "With this module, a large
assortment of cases can be singled out based on CSS version supported,
whether it's a telephone or a tablet, and some other information from the
docstring. This eliminates any need to make any difficult juggling to
support any legacy devices and browsers as the HTML and CSS for newer
devices doesn't need to support them at all. Non-CSS3 capable devices,
mobile devices, and the like each get their own specialized theme. At
present it still needs some additional categories, as some recent browsers,
such as IceCat 7, presently fall into the Dropoff bin for browsers that are
too rare, antiquated, and varied to support beyond a minimal state. The
solution is to search the useragent string for strings such as gecko or
webkit and send them to CSS2 desktop, which will have some CSS3 features.
There is a delay on this as Scotty is presently out of the country."
Strangelv-2 says, "Rose and I both would very much like to see a wider
distribution of this module than just ourselves, as this pulls the rug out
from a great many problems web developers have been banging their heads
against since the mid 1990s, and obsoletes the increasingly prevalant idea
of deliberately breaking support for older browsers and willfully
irritating visitors." Strangelv-2: http://test.moonsociety.org/ Strangelv-2
<http://test.moonsociety.org/Strangelv-2> says, "Coriolis Base is neither a
desktop nor a mobile device implementation. It is a base version that other
versions will be derived from that experimentally has separate desktop and
mobile test modes for development purposes. I have it set to display the
name of the module the user case is switching the user to, and once I get
draft implementations in place no such case will be the base." Strangelv-2
says, "SimpleAd is experimentally in place to implement the spotlight
section, but it breaks in the absense of Javascript. Scotty and James, and
Rose have two different ideas on what to do to fix this." Strangelv-2 says,
"Per Mike Delaney's reccomendation, there is an alternate spotlight
location beneath the page content section. You can simulate different
scenarios with the base theme by making your desktop web browser window
wider or narrower." Strangelv-2 says, "What wasn't ready for this meeting
but has started is the variant for CSS3 capable telephones and other small
screen devices. CSS1 and CSS2 devices are to get variants of the
corresponding CSS3 device versions (and yes, pre-CSS3 mobile devices do
exist, and are often difficult to impossible to upgrade) -- mostly with
different starting defaults -- that will still have reasonable CSS3 support
for devices that are difficult to identify but are presumed to have at
least CSS1 level capability. " Strangelv-2 says, "Two major requests are
still open action items: We need to get our content ported over and we need
new entries for our spotlight column. I suspect at this point that these
two items will be the holdups on the rollout." Strangelv-2 says, "As this
meeting represents our present deployment deadline, I hereby request a new
deadline." Strangelv-2 says, "This concludes my part of the report."
pjbanyai says, "Maybe in 6 months we will have a better ideal about buying
out the Lunar Resources Company ;-)" Strangelv-2 says, "Yes, it would be
good to make progress on that item" Lunadyne says, "How was the menu
structure I circulated?" Rose/Miros says, "it'll look similar to that when
the data is ported" Strangelv-2 says, "Rose is the one who has worked on
the menus" Rose/Miros says, "but with drupal, you build the content first
including the menu text, then arrange it when you're done" Rose/Miros says,
"which is why the 3 menu items we have are in alphabetical order, which is
the default" Lunadyne says, "Part of the reason I laid out the menus the
way I did was to help with the porting of text, by having obvious places
for it to go." Rose/Miros says, "your menu is actually a checklist of what
we have to port, then we tidy the menu" Lunadyne says, "Once we've got the
framework built and are importing the content, I'd like to have access to
assist in the editing and formatting." Rose/Miros says, "create an account
at test.moonsociety.org stop by any time" Rose/Miros says, "the magic menu
item is "Add content"" Rose/Miros says, "right now, we have to set people's
access level by hand" Lunadyne says, "I can wait until you have the bugs
worked out." Strangelv-2: http://test.moonsociety.org/user/register
Strangelv-2 <http://test.moonsociety.org/user/registerStrangelv-2> says,
"Ifg we do that we might not going to be ready for ISDC" Rose/Miros says,
"oops, i meant to give the whole link" Strangelv-2 says, "Adding content is
separate from theme development" Rose/Miros says, "james, remind me to get
"apply for role" working" Lunadyne says, "Can you set up a proxy and send
me the details?" Rose/Miros says, "well, it's possible for theme
development to go pear shaped in such a way to make adding content very
difficult" Rose/Miros says, "hang on" Strangelv-2 says, "That will happen
from time to time. Bug me when you're wanting to work if it's difficult or
worse and I can set the theme back ot something more stable" Rose/Miros
says, "who blocked Angelita? she's gonna get huffy" Strangelv-2 says, "if
you have a pre-CSS3 web browser handy, that will at many times have a
separate theme from CSS3" Lunadyne says, "Got it." Rose/Miros says, "i put
in a dummy email addy too, you might want to give a real one" Lunadyne
says, "I'm in." Strangelv-2 says, "Is he an admin?" Lunadyne says, "Philip,
maybe we can move into the discussion of post-website-upgrade, as I think
some of the points will shape the website." PhilipC says, "Is everyone else
here agreeable to that?" Strangelv-2 says, "sounds good to me" bnault says,
"me too" PhilipC says, "Ok, moving on" PhilipC says, "As I mentioned
before, Ken and I have begun a brief discussion via email about life after
the website upgrade" Lunadyne says, "I was having a discussion with Paul
Graham of OpenLuna earlier. I noted that our website has seen higher levels
of shares and likes of late. I think we're starting to get recognized as a
source of good Moon info." PhilipC says, "One thing that I've mentioned for
quite a while now is that I'd like to focus on a communications committee.
Ken mentioned an interest in projects" PhilipC says, "If I get can the
budget I'd like for a communications committee, I can recruit between 3-5k
members within 12-18 months" Lunadyne says, "So how do we engage members?
Projects are one method - Lava tubes, solar sail, Lunarpedia." Lunadyne
says, "But I think we are going to have to provide a forum for Moon
discussions." PhilipC says, "There are many issues we need to unbundle and
to organize into a strategic gameplan" PhilipC says, "The problem as I see
it is not bringing in new members, it's giving them something of value when
they get here" Lunadyne says, "I hate forums. They're spam bait. But I
really think we are going to have to have one to help build what might be
termed "Moon community"" Strangelv-2 says, "If we do one we can't afford to
let it gather dust" Rose/Miros says, "i'm thinking you have to be a
contributor (new role i just invented) to post on the forum" Rose/Miros
says, "i enabled the forum included in drupal to play with, yell if you
need more access" PhilipC says, "But putting communications aside for a
moment, what are some different ways we can engage members?" Lunadyne says,
"It would provide an engagement mechanism for members that can't be
bothered to contribute anything else." Rose/Miros says, "can i present my
wild idea i keep forgetting to write up to put on the agenda?" Lunadyne
says, "Now is the time." PhilipC says, "if we grow to say 10x our current
size, from 170 to 1700, we're probably going to need to rely more on
chapters" Strangelv-2 looks at Rose Rose/Miros says, "ok, my nutty idea was
to put up a series of audio interview, maybe with a video of stills and
power point screens" Strangelv-2 says, "We need to communicate better with
our existing chapters; this will get even harder as we scale." Rose/Miros
says, "start with society members with expertise in various areas, like amy
who has a phd in robotics or michael mealling from marsten" Rose/Miros
says, "no, we haven't contacted them, this is a nutty idea stage"
Rose/Miros says, "i'm thinking for ease of production, at least to start,
let them write the questions and record their answers" dcarson says, "make
it an irregular podcast?" Rose/Miros says, "then one of us will record the
questions and someone will knit the whole thing together" Rose/Miros says,
"pod cast isn't a bad idea" Rose/Miros says, "my idea was to make something
neat, lowish bandwidth, and not too hard to produce" Strangelv-2 says, "Do
we want to attempt to get a couple of them done before the site rollout or
is this after rollout?" Rose/Miros says, "after, we have our hands full and
our pants to hold up" Lunadyne says, "Speaking of chapters, we need an easy
way for them to update us on their activities." dcarson says, "before only
if some new sucker steps up to do them" PhilipC says, "That's something
that a communications committee can focus on" Strangelv-2 suspects we need
to do it after, but that depends on who we might be able to get to work on
it Strangelv-2 can't change gears without dropping the ball Rose/Miros
says, "we can make real pages for each chapter and give the secretary of
the chapter (if there is such a thing) edit rights" Rose/Miros says, "how
much extra bandwidth would a podcast take than just a download?" PhilipC
says, "When the website upgrade is relatively finished, we need to have a
strategic planning meeting" Lunadyne says, "Rose, we do already have a
library of media, and can probably get more like my interviews at The Space
Show and Moonandback to use as test subjects." PhilipC says, "We're going
to need to think about how we differ from the NSS and Mars Society"
Lunadyne says, "Chapter officers should have edit access." Lunadyne says,
"Philip - We're awesomerer" pjbanyai says, "Some chapters currently have
their membership based on members joining their chapter team." PhilipC
says, "For one, we're probably going to need to build up chapter
capabilities" Rose/Miros says, "i was thinking new stuff, and i think amy
and michael would be willing to be guinea pigs if we can get it close to a
formula" PhilipC says, "I should also warn all of you that I'm currently
writing an op-ed for a major media news outlet that takes Zubrin to the
mat" Rose/Miros says, "once it's a formula, we can invite other people from
outside the society" Lunadyne says, "As long as it doesn't delay the
website rollout." Rose/Miros says, "cool" PhilipC says, "James, I have. The
truth is I've been thinking about doing a lunar MMOG for years" Lunadyne
says, "James, I saw that. It seems to relate to Lunar Explorer, which is IP
I was hoping to snag for TMS." Lunadyne says, "Manny Pimenta is/was a
member." PhilipC says, "the Virtual Moon Project isn't bad, but it needs to
distinguish the different development paradigms" PhilipC says, "If I submit
my op-ed, it could create a deep division between us and the Mars Society"
Strangelv-2 has derailed the topic beforle he could add his bit to it
Strangelv-2 says, "I must admit that could be a problem" Rose/Miros says,
"so add your bit, just label it with which topic you're commenting on"
Strangelv-2 says, "They're involved with Marspedia" Lunadyne says, "Will we
get to see it first if we're going to be picking fights?" Strangelv-2 says,
"Make it clear you're speaking on your own and not on behalf of the
society?" Strangelv-2 says, "Perhaps fail to mention that you're the chair
of the board?" Rose/Miros says, "we need to sort out the wikis too, nss
wants to host marspedia, but I think we need to administer it too, we seem
to have people who stick around longer" Lunadyne says, "Don't we have
Lunarpedia to worry about?" PhilipC says, "Zubrin takes an environmentalist
to task for saying that we shouldn't focus on mars exploration when we need
to focus on the oceans. I go one step farther than both of them, and talk
about why we must enter space." Rose/Miros says, "there are like 4 wikis"
Strangelv-2 says, "We also need to decide if we're porting the wikis over.
There's been breakage since something at DreamHost but I've been too busy
to investigate" Strangelv-2 says, "WE have five" Rose/Miros says, "i said
like" Rose/Miros grins. Strangelv-2 says, "One of which is more forgettable
than the other four becaues it's lost its way" Rose/Miros says, "paul, your
account is live, anyone else?" PhilipC says, "while i don't attack Zubrin,
I will set off his warning lights. it'll put us on divergent paths" bnault
says, "no one speaks for the Moon Soc unless there is a vote beforehand.
So, any editorial would have to be explicitely stated as being the views of
the author only." Strangelv-2 says, "One thing that's part of our history
dating bakc to 1994 is we've been a lot moer private sector in focus than
the Mars Society" Strangelv-2 says, "We're not lobbying for a government
program" PhilipC says, "nope" Strangelv-2 says, "We'er also a lot less
bureaucratic than the NSS" PhilipC says, "my op-ed summarizes his approach
and it embraces the private sector path" Lunadyne says, "Also hopefully a
lot less cult-of-personality focused than them, too." Rose/Miros says, "the
thing is, if we comme up with a decent anti-spam method for lunarpedia, it
would be nice if ALL the wikis could use it, including marspedia"
Strangelv-2 says, "Even when Greg was here we lacked a cult of personality"
Rose/Miros says, "Greg was Greg" PhilipC says, "i also explain to non-space
enthusiasts why they should support entry into space" Lunadyne says, "Rose,
can we limit Lunarpedia work to project team members?" Rose/Miros says,
"talk to the admin" Rose/Miros pokes at Strangelv-2. Strangelv-2 says, "No"
Strangelv-2 says, "Lunarpedia is something that has luned people into the
society" Strangelv-2 says, "They start by working in the wiki" Strangelv-2
says, "If wve limited to ourselves nothing would get added" Rose/Miros
says, "i'd like to shut it down for a couple days and see if the spammers
go away, then open it back up" Strangelv-2 says, "ANd the purpose would
have been defeated" Lunadyne says, "that's why I want to have it as one of
our active projects. But would prefer that it be limited to TMS members for
updates." Rose/Miros says, "other way around actually, shut down, open up,
see if the spam is less" PhilipC says, "Here's a passage from my op-ed. "
PhilipC says, "When Zubrin beheld the costs of building industries on the
Moon and in Earth orbit, he lost confidence in the entire chain of
reasoning behind it. He threw out the baby with the bathwater. It is well
understood within the space community that the cost of entering orbit is
largely driven by the weight of a rocket, most of which is fuel. On the
other hand if we had industries on the Moon and in Earth orbit, the use and
cost of all vehicles in space would be less expensive. If we could deliver
raw goods to be manufactured in orbital micro-gravity environments, they
can be built to any size from standard rocket payloads to mega-scale
structures tens of thousands of miles long and wide. " Lunadyne says,
"Pro'ly not" Lunadyne says, "That was to Rose" Strangelv-2 says, "They
won't. There are solution,s but they reqjuire getting under the hood. Mike
is the person with the experience in doing this but has been too hijacked
by family difficulties" Rose/Miros says, "darn, they didn't give us phil's
blown appendix in a jar" pjbanyai has reconnected. PhilipC says, "When I
listen closely to Zubrin, he seems to reject our entire rationale for going
to the moon" Rose/Miros says, "remember the night the power sat guy showed
up, sucked down every idea for orbital work we could come up with, then
said, well, we really don't need to land on the moon" Strangelv-2 says, "HE
basically dismisses us out of hand. The people in the Mars Society we deal
with aren't Zubrin." Rose/Miros rolls her eyes in big circles Rose/Miros
says, "yeah, the moon is at the bottom of a gravity well, but not as big as
the earth's" Lunadyne says, "I don't worry too much about Bob. He's past
his best-by date, and the organization is going to start moving to new
leadership or disappear before other, better Mars projects." dcarson says,
"and one without an atmosphere so a maglev/whatever ground launcher can
work" PhilipC says, "James, I know. That's why I think that there's a real
disconnect. People suupport the Mars Society because Zubrin has become a
minor media celebrity and because they support Mars Direct. But Zubrin
doesn't provide an economic basis for going there. He thinks we can set up
a Mars colony only on NASA's budget alone" PhilipC says, "I disagree"
Lunadyne says, "I think as long as we keep to a "support
commercialization/acknowledge work of NASA" we'll do fine." Strangelv-2
says, "I don't believe anyone here trusts NASA to be able to do anything
like that, even for us, even if they wanted to" PhilipC says, "Part of my
op-ed is to show that not only can we go to Mars, we can fully fund the
colonization efforts " Rose/Miros says, "just watch out for the flying
potato moons" Rose/Miros says, "and big giant volcano mountain" dcarson
says, "a long term colony has to have a export" dcarson says, "no place is
self contained" PhilipC says, "space colonization depends on how you bundle
the space economy" dcarson says, "the moon is close enough to export to
orbit, support tourism and export power as possibilities" Rose/Miros says,
"ok, i think i have the new contributor role set up, if you discover you
need more access, just ask me or james" Lunadyne says, "Thanks Rose!"
PhilipC says, "that's why mars will likely rely on the lunar economy for
decades to come" Strangelv-2 says, "Sounds like a good argument" Lunadyne
says, "I remember when Bob announced at one of the ISDCs that he was going
to export Mars' fecal matter to the Moon I almost yelled "We'll take it!""
Rose/Miros says, "don't they need it for fertilizer too?" PhilipC says,
"Zubrin on the otherhand has told me to my face that he believes the mars
colony will invent new technologies and rely on patents as a way of funding
itself" Lunadyne says, "Exactly!" pjbanyai says, "I think we should try to
get some well known celebrities who support the Moon Path to join the Moon
Society." Lunadyne says, "The best contribution a Mars colony can offer is
new culture." Strangelv-2 says, "And yes, we really would consider mining
concrete. We know already that it's not the same as Earth." Rose/Miros
says, "yes it will, but if nasa is footing the bill, kiss those patents
good bye" Strangelv-2 says, "GOod point -- how do we make the Moon Society
moer attractive for Tom Hanks, et al.?" PhilipC says, "on top of that, he
believes that a mars colony can rely on NASA's budget alone indefinitely"
Lunadyne says, "1) Sexy new website..." Rose/Miros says, "temporarily
ignoring the silver menu, what do people think?" Lunadyne says, "2)
Interesting and engaging projects (at bat - Lunar Lava Tubes)" PhilipC
says, "putting the op-ed aside, we can recruit plenty of members. it's just
keeping them that's the problem. " Strangelv-2 also wonders if anyone here
sees a different typeface for THE MOON SOCIETY and CORIOLIS BASE THEME, and
if so, what are they browsing with Rose/Miros says, "important characters
include ell, eye, one, and zero" Lunadyne says, "If diff is subtle. Using
Firefox" Lunadyne says, "3) Recognition as a solid source of Moon
information" Strangelv-2 says, "I dons't haev it optimized to test, but I'm
wanting to know when @font-face doesn't work." PhilipC says, "one thing
that i've been thinking about is that if we have a communications
committee, i can have focus groups and surveys to ask people what types of
services, activities, and events they'd like to see" Lunadyne says, "(FWIW,
I will be speaking at the Mensa Annual Gathering in July)" Strangelv-2
says, "Kewl" Rose/Miros says, "cool, you can make an announcement for it"
Rose/Miros says, "make sure you check "promote to front page" in the
publication options" dcarson says, "Ian often attends, may want to see if
you can chat with him" dcarson says, "attends Mensa" PhilipC says, "I've
never formally tested my IQ. " Rose/Miros says, "i haven't since i was 15"
Strangelv-2 says, "There are more prestigious ones than Mensa, although
predictably they're a bit harder to qualify for" Lunadyne says, "Speaking
of announcements. So I want an input for chapters with Date, Location, and
Description. This should feed to the big calendar where we list perpetual
events like WSW, YN, Space Day, etc." PhilipC says, "It sounds like it's
probably about time for us to wrap this up" Strangelv-2 . o O ( Calendar...
) Strangelv-2 looks at Rose. This is outside of his present scope Lunadyne
says, "Mine hasn't been tested since I was an infant and I've never been
told what the results where. Should be somewhere around 140-ish" Rose/Miros
says, "actually, we need the chapter contacts to make accounts so we can
have interested parties contact them through the website instead of leaving
their email addys hanging out in the breeze" Lunadyne says, "were (see,
real geniuses don't make that mistake...)" PhilipC says, "Does anyone have
any announcements?" Rose/Miros says, "calendar sounds fun, i'll have to see
what's available" Lunadyne says, "It should have been in one of the menus I
suggested." Lunadyne says, "The idea there is that anyone can click through
to see a calendar. Space milestones and annual events are shown, as well as
chapter events highlighted." Rose/Miros says, "my hubby is consuming huge
amounts of my time" Lunadyne says, "Don't want details (lol!)" Rose/Miros
says, "no you don't. suffice it to say dinner eats hours of my
time........" PhilipC says, "Again, any announcements? We need to wrap this
up" Strangelv-2 has nothing to say and needs to get back to selep soon
PhilipC says, "Hearing none, I move that we adjourn. Any seconds?" bnault
says, "second" Lunadyne says, "Good discussion everyone!" Rose/Miros says,
"james, remind me to check the permissions on the contributor role" PhilipC
says, "So moved. We are now adjourned. I want to thank all of you for
attending. Good night!" 
-- End log: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 11:09:31 pm ASI Meeting Server time --