-- Start log: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 9:14:20 pm ASI Meeting Server time -- 
Lunadyne says, "Welcome everyone to the September 3 Management
meeting." PhilipC has arrived. Lunadyne says, "Roll call: name and rank"
Lunadyne says, "Ken Murphy, President" PhilipC says, "Sorry I'm late. I
just came from another meeting" Scottyg says, "Scotty Gammenthaler,
Assistant Treasurer" dcarson says, "Dana Carson, Treasurer" PhilipC says,
"Philip Crume, Chairman" Lunadyne says, "Hi Philip. We just started."
pjbanyai says, "Paul Banyai, Vice President" AlanSteinberg says, "Alan
Steinberg, Director" PhilipC says, "Thank you Ken" PhilipC says, "I'll take
over now" Strangelv-2 says, "James Gholston, secretary" dcarson says,
"September 4 not 3 meeting" bnault says, "Ben Nault, Director" Lunadyne
says, "What if I don't yield the gavel?" PhilipC says, "Looks like we're
missing Rose and Jim" PhilipC says, "Then I guess I wouldn't take over"
dcarson says, "Rose has been moving" Lunadyne says, "Sweet! Okay, on to the
membership report" PhilipC says, "How do I do this? Request permission to
resume chairmanship?" PhilipC says, "not so fast buddy" Lunadyne says,
"Cyberteams says we're at 154, trending down just a bit." Lunadyne says,
"Interestingly, I was contacted by Phil Smith, space artist, who is doing a
project for Tauri Group." Lunadyne says, "He wanted to know if we had over
1000 members, as that was his filter level for inclusion as relevant."
Lunadyne says, "I noted that I only knew of two who met that criteria - NSS
and TPS." Strangelv-2 says, "We've had well over 1000 over the course of 20
years; does that count?" Lunadyne says, "Our next membership initiative is
the ad in the back of the Last Breath comic." PhilipC says, "If anyone asks
us if we have a thousand members, never say no. Always say "not yet""
Lunadyne says, "I did make that note, but with the caveat that current
paying members is below that level." pjbanyai says, "Currently our newest
member is number 1717." Lunadyne says, "I pointed out that everyone was
going to be monkeying around with their numbers." Lunadyne says, "Like SEA
including employees of its corporate members" PhilipC says, "That's a good
idea!" Lunadyne says, "Not a new one." AlanSteinberg says, "Point of Order:
Once the membership report is over we should approve the mins from the last
meeting." PhilipC says, "All we need now is to get a PO box in a big
building, and then take a picture of the building and claim it as our
headquarters" pjbanyai says, "My Mars Society number was in the 4000s.
Pretty sure bet that they do not have that number of active members."
Lunadyne says, "Any membership questions?" PhilipC says, "Weren't we at 157
members last time?" Lunadyne says, "Yes. As noted, the number has been
slowly drifting down from our recent highs in the 180s." Lunadyne says,
"170s" PhilipC says, "When we finish the website transfer, we'll be in a
better position to recruit new members" Lunadyne says, "It's assumed that
many of the ISDC gift memberships would roll off. We did get a Director out
of it as well." PhilipC says, "Nothing else from me" Lunadyne says,
"Alrighty, moving on to approval of the minutes of the last meeting."
Lunadyne says, "James has circulated these. Please read." Lunadyne says,
"the only detail of note is the approval for the Last Breath comic book
ad." PhilipC says, "I move to approve the minutes" Lunadyne says, "Are
there any corrections or additions to the minutes?" Lunadyne says, "If not,
can I get a motion to approve?" PhilipC says, "I just made the motion"
Lunadyne says, "So moved. Any second?" AlanSteinberg says, "second"
Lunadyne says, "All in favor say Aye!" PhilipC says, "aye" AlanSteinberg
says, "aye" Lunadyne says, "Aye!" pjbanyai says, "aye" dcarson says, "aye"
bnault says, "aye" Lunadyne says, "Motion carries." PhilipC says,
"LunaDyne, you can't vote as acting chairman" Strangelv-2 says, "abstain"
Lunadyne says, "Yeah, but I was the only one to vote Aye!, and I waited for
Ben." Lunadyne says, "On to the Treasurer's Report. Dana - show us the
money!" dcarson says, "same as always, I'm waiting for the last Breath
bill" pjbanyai says, "I have a quick note concerning members. I just
discovered someone has 3 member numbers and apparently has a pending
membership with a 4 number in the 2000 range." dcarson says, "no other
major changes" Lunadyne says, "Bank balance should be about $32K, right?"
dcarson says, "if anyone is missing any checks from me please remind me"
dcarson says, "yes is around that" Lunadyne says, "Dana, I just sent the
mailing address for the check." dcarson says, "will look for it" Lunadyne
says, "For our $250 we got the inside back cover. Color. 1000 copy initial
run. pdfs for each member, hard copy for the BoD." dcarson says, "good
deal" Lunadyne says, "We've got permission to use "Descent into Darkness.
Artist will make any text additions we want." Lunadyne says, "Ad is die by
the end of October-ish." dcarson says, "should post that members will get
the pdfs to the erbsite and facebook" AlanSteinberg says, "sounds good"
Lunadyne says, "I'm interested to get a copy for the Lunar Library."
Lunadyne says, "Any other Treasury issues?" dcarson says, "none here"
PhilipC says, "I think we should ask" Lunadyne says, "Seeing none I'd like
to step back to Paul's note about the member with doppelgangers. Paul."
Scottyg says, "As of July 31, bank balance was $31,681.82." PhilipC says,
"the comic book artists to also produce a teaser pdf, which we should post
on our website for the general public (to help drive traffic their way)"
pjbanyai says, "It looks like a hacker is trying to break in named David
Filmer! He apparently paid botha membership due 8/15 and a renewal 8/30
with member 1714. He setup 17123 and 1715 " Lunadyne says, "I asked if one
of the artists could produce a Moonbase image we could use. They wanted
$50." Lunadyne says, "Did he pay for multiple memberships?" PhilipC says,
"That sounds fair to me, assuming we like the image" pjbanyai says, "It
looks like a hacker is trying to break in named David Filmer! He apparently
paid botha membership due 8/15 and a renewal 8/30 with member 1714. He
setup 1712 and 1713 which were found to be incorrect. Current pending for
2289. " PhilipC says, "Do we have an email for the member? How do you know
it was an attempted hack?" Lunadyne says, "How did he set up the additional
memberships if they weren't paid for?" PhilipC says, "And not just a simple
mistake?" Strangelv-2 is assuming we're still in the tre'aserer's report
PhilipC says, "It sounds to me like someone accidentally pressed the back
button and submitted payment twice" pjbanyai says, "The 1712 and 1713
accounts have usernames and passwords." PhilipC says, "Thank you James. "
Lunadyne says, "James, no one else had any Treasury questions, so we moved
on to Paul'" Lunadyne says, "'s point about the mystery membership,"
Strangelv-2 says, "Then I need to know what item we're under so I can
document it" Lunadyne says, "Back to membership." Lunadyne says, "Can the
supplemental accounts be deleted?" Strangelv-2 says, "Thank you" PhilipC
says, "We would need to contact the person in question, ask them to clarify
their intent, and probably refund them the 2nd payment" dcarson says, "if
he actually paid multiple we'll email and see if he wants a refund or
several years of membership" pjbanyai says, "He submitted a request under
member 2289 the same day that he successfully renewed for 1714. Which did
not need to be renewed since it was a new student account." PhilipC says,
"or ask if they'd like to just apply it for an additional year" dcarson
says, "so Scotty or I" dcarson says, "and we will do so" PhilipC says, "It
sounds to me like a simple mistake" Lunadyne says, "I wonder if it's the
David Filmer at Purdue?" pjbanyai says, "he used several birthdates. The
succesful account says he was born 1931." Lunadyne says, "Dana, can you
take point on contacting him, with Scotty cc:ed for backup?" PhilipC says,
"Dana, if Paul suspects he's a hacker, then you'll want to BCC Scotty"
Lunadyne says, "Paul, that would be about the right timeframe. I'd assume
he's confused with our newfangled interface thingee." Lunadyne says, "Any
other points on this issue?" Lunadyne says, "Reminds me that we might want
to put a request for bequests in MMM. Our membership ain't getting any
younger." Lunadyne says, "Moving on, let's talk website. We'll devote a
fair amount of time to this. One thing I'd like to address is the upcoming
MOO." Lunadyne says, "I'll note that when I made the post for the Town Hall
meeting, I didn't see any way to promote it to the Front Page. This may be
a function of permissions and authorities." pjbanyai says, "His website is
www.flockman.com. It is about chichens so maybe he is connected to Purdue.
We need to make sure something like this does not happen again and possible
confuse our membership numbers." Lunadyne says, "Of which permissions and
authorities I don't seem to have many." Scottyg says, "n the David Filmer
issue, we had a server problem that may have caused that." Lunadyne says,
"Can't even turn the recorder off and on, grumble, grumble..." Lunadyne
says, "Was it a Cyberteams server issue or BlueHost server issue?" Scottyg
says, "Cyberteams." Lunadyne says, "But of course..." dcarson says, "I'll
email him and CC you Scotty" Scottyg says, "He's in the UK." Lunadyne says,
"I do have a website request. On the right, can we limit the number of
highlights to one, but rotating?" pjbanyai says, "We have been approved for
Google for Nonprofits. Anyone with a gmail account can become an admin.
Enrollment in Google products takes about 2-4 hours and requires the
ability to update dns records and possible admin access to the website."
Strangelv-2 says, "That probably falls unde design change. We could discuss
it, but I need eval.moonsociety.org to be up and running before I can
seriously work on it" Strangelv-2 says, "How would you arrange it? The
current concept is to fill the right col/umn. It would be a very short
column with only one item" Lunadyne says, "Nothing wrong with that. What
are we waiting on for the eval.?" Strangelv-2 says, "Philip, Rose, and Dana
have been working on migrating content to the new site recently, BTW"
Strangelv-2 says, "Ask Scotty" Lunadyne says, "Much appreciated." Lunadyne
says, "I so need to work on that..." AlanSteinberg says, "Point of
Information: I've got to go, something came up, sorry. Philip and Ken are
sitting on the revised bylaws and I'm happy to talk about it more at the
next meeting or via e-mail." pjbanyai says, "Reminder Annual Meeting nex
week." pjbanyai says, "Reminder Annual Meeting next week." Lunadyne says,
"Let's chat by e-mail. We should discuss this a bit at the Town Hall."
pjbanyai says, "Correction not Town Hall." Strangelv-2 says, "Peter sent me
what he wants changed to che chapter rules, but I didn't understand it and
wasn't up to trying to handle it today. If someone else took over the
action item it might get doen faster" AlanSteinberg has disconnected.
Lunadyne says, "Annual Town Hall Meeting Extravaganza" Strangelv-2 says,
"Noting again that this isn't what Alan is working on" Lunadyne says, "Got
it." Lunadyne says, "On the website. Is there any way to build a quick
portal to the MOO site on the front page?" Strangelv-2 says, "First,
describe it" dcarson says, "can put the java moo client link there"
Lunadyne says, "Well, at the new website I haven't seen any way to access
the MOO. So what I would want to see is a link that goes to the page we're
on now." Strangelv-2 says, "A button below the spotlight item in the right
column?" Strangelv-2 says, "or a menu button" PhilipC says, "I'd recommend
putting it with the membership book" Lunadyne says, "Probably better as a
menu button. In the membership menu/" pjbanyai says, "To apply for Google
go to admin https://google-for-nonprofits.appspot.com/application and enter
EIN 75-2895014. I will then approve access." PhilipC says, "The new site is
supposed to be a break from the infinite number of links we allowed to
creep up on us on the old site" Strangelv-2 says, "put under mon info or
user menu? membership?" Strangelv-2 doesn't actually see an option he
likes, but the menus were never his action item Lunadyne says, "Not
membership, members." Strangelv-2 would look at Rose, but she's indisposed
and unavailable Lunadyne says, "Since in principle only members should be
wandering in here." The housekeeper arrives to cart AlanSteinberg off to
bed. PhilipC says, "Maybe we should change it from membership to members"
Strangelv-2 looks at Scotty, who was more involved with mthe mechanics than
the exact layout if he correctly recalls Strangelv-2 says, "We had a bit of
division of labor but lacked someone to dedicatedly work on migrating and
formatting content" PhilipC says, "Scotty, if you have a minute, could we
talk after the meeting here?" Strangelv-2 still isn't sure what the single
items spotrlight is supposed to rlook like if not a big huge void to the
right side of the page Strangelv-2 says, "Whether we modify it or keep it
as is, we need moer items for it" Lunadyne says, "James, we don't have to
fill every square inch of our front page. That's how the old one got to
look the way it did." Strangelv-2 says, "What we have is a rump set that
was supposed to be expanded upon immediately" Strangelv-2 says, "What do
you see as teh problems with the current sorution?" Scottyg says, "Philip,
yes if I don't doze off at the computer first." PhilipC says, "Perhaps I
should send you an email instead" Strangelv-2 wonders if Scotty has an idea
for where to put the link to the MOO Scottyg says, "Social media submenu or
page." Strangelv-2 hmms. Strangelv-2 says, "And we have at least tow other
things to put in it" dcarson says, "a permenent one in the Members submenu,
should also hacve one in the annual meeting article" Strangelv-2 says,
"Facebook and IIRC LInedIn. Also email lists" Scottyg says, "Philip, that's
ok if I become unresponsive." Lunadyne says, "IIRC I did link to the MOO
page in the annual meeting note." dcarson says, "and yeah a link to the
Facebook discussion page is good" Strangelv-2 wonders if we'd get into
trouble for sending people to join Artemis List and actually post things to
it. It's not been posted to for awhile Lunadyne says, "I second Dana's
suggestion." dcarson says, "ah, that should help Ken" pjbanyai says, "Has
anyone spoken to Randall about the MOO and the website recently? I believe
moo.moonsociety.org was originally supposed to be our link to the MOO.
Instead we are still using the ASI entrance." Strangelv-2 says, "I have'nt
heard much from Randall for a long time, and what I haev was usually about
Xisp or technical difficulties" PhilipC says, "At some point, I would be in
favor of moving to a different communications platform other than MOO"
Strangelv-2 says, "First we need to yfind one that isn't inferior"
Strangelv-2 says, "That's proven to be a far harder task than anyone
expected it to be" PhilipC says, "My preference would be video
conferencing, but I realize that that might require a fast connection that
not everyone has" Lunadyne says, "Still think google Hangouts isn't
entirely a bad thing..." Strangelv-2 says, "Iave grown to be very
untrusting of Google in recent monthds. I'm not exactly alone in this."
PhilipC says, "I'm starting to migrate away from Google altogether. "
Lunadyne says, "There's no one to trust." Lunadyne says, "Not anymore."
PhilipC says, "The only reason I still use gmail is because my personal
email address keeps spitting back the address I've dedicated for the
moonsociety" Strangelv-2 usually uses ixquick for Internet searches. Not
only is it EU-based and not plugged in to the NSA, it has no logs that can
be searched and doesn't use Google -- alntough they also offer startpage.com
as a privacy-protecting Google proxy PhilipC says, "i use duckduckgo"
PhilipC says, "but we're getting offpoint" Lunadyne says, "not really. How
do we find a service we trust enough to meet our needs." Strangelv-2 says,
"Things i would want as a possible MOO replacement:" PhilipC says,
"Greengeeks has a variety of apps we can use for our website. we just need
to explore what they have to offer" Strangelv-2 says, "we control it --
we're not at the mercy of someone else like Microsoft or Google" pjbanyai
says, "Open sim is capable of both graphic and non-graphic interface. It
may also be possible to link the MOO to the Secondlife spinoff. Personally
I would like to look into the possibility of using the Unity engine to
create our own application. Unity is compatible with every platform
including cellphones. " Strangelv-2 says, "It works with common text
clients or something similarly broad-based and low-overead. We need
something Peter can use -- which admittedly is an off-ramp related to why
Peter can't get here for unknomwn reasons" PhilipC says, "That's true, but
MOO is obsolete. It creates friction/resistance with the speed with which
we could communicate" Strangelv-2 says, "I would need to see this option to
evaluiate it. Probably primarily from text" PhilipC says, "Perhaps better
than MOO would be some form of IP telephony for teleconferencing or better
still video conferencing" PhilipC says, "text is too slow" Strangelv-2
says, "Too much sensory input could prevent my participation" PhilipC says,
"it would be manageable if the chairman has the authority to "recognize a
speaker" and pass along the audio feed to a particular person" PhilipC
says, "this would give us meetings closer to what they would be like irl"
PhilipC says, "in real world meetings, one person speaks at a time" PhilipC
says, "it should be the same with how we do things here" Strangelv-2 says,
"That c9ould be a good supplement and could take over some of the things
the MOO is used for, but not all of them" Strangelv-2 is ignoring the
difficulties he would personalyl have with this. Strangelv-2 says, "As was
said, being an online hangout is one of teh main functions of the MOO. It's
also a place wher someone can drop in at random and have a good chance of
meeting with someone in the society" Strangelv-2 says, "Frequently a high
level person in the society" Strangelv-2 says, "MAybe we need to lisk
these. It might be easier to address them separately and have more than one
replacement" PhilipC says, "Yes, but in the past year, how many non-leaders
have appeared in MOO to do as you suggest?" Strangelv-2 says, "Given that
an all in one replacement is something that's proven to be intractable"
Strangelv-2 says, "Not as many as theer used to be" Strangelv-2 says,
"Partyl becraues it's harld to even find out about the MOO except in
ceritan contexts. It used to be a bit moer front-and--center" Strangelv-2
says, "IRC would wokr better for a hangout, but it's not exactly easy to
get an IRC server set up" Strangelv-2 says, "And the difficulties with
someone eles's IRC server is what caused us to set up our own server
running a MUD 14 years ago" Scottyg says, "We started out using IRC moved
moved away fron it due to rooms getting split." Strangelv-2 says, "Then
there were some of the less productive visitors" Lunadyne says, "Okay,
we're ending the time slot allocated to website. Any other issues?"
Strangelv-2 still wants to know what Ken's nits are with the current
spotlight implementation Strangelv-2 says, "But that may take too long and
doesn't need to be during this meeting" Lunadyne says, "Nothing major - I'm
just trying to keep the front page slim and trim." Lunadyne says, "Moving
on to the Annual Town Hall Meeting Extravaganza!" Lunadyne says, "There
have been 27 reads of the agenda so far." Lunadyne says, "I should probably
send out an e-mail reminder to everyone." Lunadyne says, "Any proposed
additions to the agenda?" Strangelv-2 wonders how many of thoes reads are
him restarting his browser and reloading the page Lunadyne says, "A few of
them are mine." pjbanyai says, "Have you written your annual report. That
should be added to the original post." Strangelv-2 says, "We definitely
need to improve its visibility. Did we post about in on FAcebook?" Lunadyne
says, "There was a FB post about the Annual Meeting." pjbanyai says, "I
added it to the Facebook page events a few days ago. I plan on inviting
everyone in the discussion group after the meeting and placing a reminder
on the main page(possibly highlighted or pinned to the top of the page)."
Lunadyne says, "PAul. what was the EIN again for the Google thingee?"
pjbanyai says, "To apply for Google account admin go to
https://google-for-nonprofits.appspot.com/application , check all three
checkboxes and enter EIN 75-2895014. I will then approve access." pjbanyai
says, "You will also have to fill in name and optionally your position."
Lunadyne says, "Done." Lunadyne says, "Any other Annual Meeting issues?"
Lunadyne says, "that covers the major topics this evening. I now open up
the floor to general discussion." PhilipC says, "i just wanted to throw out
there that I would like to get a conversation started via email on what we
support in terms of the big picture" PhilipC says, "I know there's a lot we
agree on, but such a conversation would help parse out where we disagree
and the different ways we can bridge those differences" PhilipC says,
"there's simply not enough time to discuss this here in MOO" PhilipC says,
"the ideal place would be a forum, but they don't exist at the moment"
Strangelv-2 says, "What does Apache Wave have that might mimic the
functionality of ARC or a MUD?" Strangelv-2 says, "...and how low can the
user requirements be made to be?" Strangelv-2 says, "or have I just
demonstrated how poorly I understand what Apache Wave is?" PhilipC says, "I
plan to take a mysql/php course starting in october. perhaps afterwards i
can talk intelligently on apache" Strangelv-2 says, "s/ARC/IRC/"
Strangelv-2 says, "I've been told that Skype was originally a peer-to-peer
setup" Strangelv-2 says, "If osmeone is reconstructing that, we might be
able to set one up as a at least a partial MOO replacement -- although we
wouldn't be able to have the text mockup of a settlement with it -- that
would need a different solution" PhilipC says, "there are plenty of voip
solutions out there if only we'd explore them" Strangelv-2 says, "That it
can do everything we use it for at once is another of the MOO's strengths.
" Strangelv-2 says, "The hangout croud is here when a meeting happen,s or
when a visitor wants to explore. I'm not sure a 3D environment that's not
also the text-only hangout would actually get used" Strangelv-2 says,
"voice could prevent my participation" Strangelv-2 says, "I never use Skype
for voice" Strangelv-2 says, "only text chat" Strangelv-2 says, "and I'd
migrate away from it if I could get the groups i interact with via it to do
the same" Strangelv-2 postes a question on Sikype asking the NSA to remind
him what his email password is PhilipC says, "We don't have to use skype,
it could be an inhouse solution" PhilipC says, "why would voice prevent
your participation?" Strangelv-2 says, "In this case, it falls under the
generic 'we need control over it'" dcarson says, "well I have an old
machine with no camera or mike so voice doesn't work" Strangelv-2 says, "I
have to budget what I watch or listen to. A purely audiovisual meeting
solution might force my resignation for medical reasons" pjbanyai says, "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Wave has more info. Wave included every
skype feature as well as features of email, forums, cloud document sharing,
and embedded apps like maps or ballot voting/polling. " Strangelv-2 says,
"Most of thoes don't actually idnterest me in this context. If it has text
chat you have my attention" pjbanyai says, "Skype is now owned by Microsoft
and requires a fee for many of the features which used to be free."
Strangelv-2 says, "And basicalyl anything you type into Skype goes directyl
to the NSA" bnault says, "webcams can be found for around $20 - so, old
'puter missing mike is not a compelling argument not to advance to more
modern technology. " Strangelv-2 says, "I don't like to think about that
when I'b having a conversation" PhilipC says, "James, what about voice to
text? " Lunadyne has disconnected. Strangelv-2 says, "I've looked for voice
to text to for the purpsoses of writing. Every time I've looked for Linux
solutions I've come away disappointed" Strangelv-2 says, "We've lost the
person chairing the meeting" PhilipC says, "yeah i noticed" PhilipC says,
"i guess this means that i will assume chair again" Strangelv-2 says,
"Should mwe flip a coin to see who takes the gavel? Or we could just see
who grabns it first" PhilipC says, "Does anyone have any objection to me
chairing the remainder of this meeting?" Strangelv-2 has no objections and
wonders what else we need to discuss Strangelv-2 says, "We're official/ly
out of time, although that's not exactly been a reliable stopping point for
us lately" PhilipC says, "Hearing none, as the Chairman of TMS, I hearby
resume chairing this meeting" PhilipC says, "Being that we're out of time,
would someone like to make a motion to adjourn?" PhilipC says, "We can of
course continue any conversations afterwards" bnault says, "motion to
adjourn" PhilipC says, "Any second?" dcarson says, "second" PhilipC says,
"We are now hearby adjourned. Thank you all for coming!" 
-- End log: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 11:02:27 pm ASI Meeting Server time --