-- Start log: Wednesday, October 2, 2013 9:02:57 pm ASI Meeting Server time-- 
PhilipC says, "The 2013-10-02 Management Committee Meeting is now called
to order. Thank all of you for coming." PhilipC says, "Let's start off by
taking attendance. Will all who are present please state your name and
position." PhilipC says, "Philip Crume, Chairman" AlanSteinberg says, "Alan
Steinberg, Director" bnault says, "Ben Nault, Director" dcarson says, "Dana
Carson, Treasurer" Lunadyne says, "Ken Murphy - President" pjbanyai says,
"Paul Banyai, Vice-President" Strangelv-4 says, "James Gholston, secretary"
Scottyg has arrived. PhilipC says, "As far as I know, that leaves Rose and
Jim " PhilipC says, "Scotty, we're currently taking attendance" Scottyg
says, "Scotty Gammenthaler, Assistant Treasurer" PhilipC says, "Thank you."
PhilipC says, "Let the record show that we have quorum for this meeting.
Rose might show later. Any word yet on Jim Keravala?" Lunadyne says,
"Negatory. He's been travelling a bit for Shackleton." PhilipC says, "We
can discuss this later." Strangelv-3 has disconnected. The housekeeper
arrives to remove Strangelv-3. PhilipC says, "Since we have quorum I'd like
to direct all of you to the email James, our secretary, sent to us today
regarding the minutes of the September 16 meeting." PhilipC says, "Please
peruse the minutes for any corrections. " PhilipC says, "Can I please have
a motion to approve the minutes?" AlanSteinberg says, "Move to approve the
minutes from Sept 16" PhilipC says, "Any second?" bnault says, "motion to
approve the minutes for the Sept 18 meeting" dcarson says, "second" PhilipC
says, "I'll give Ben Nault the second." Strangelv-4 says, "I would like to
note one difference between the email and the URL" PhilipC says, "Any
discussion?" Strangelv-4 says, "There was an incorrect automated correction
I didn't stop in time" Strangelv-4 says, "The correct wversion is th one on
the website" Strangelv-4 says, "My machine's dictionary didn't have teh
word teleoperated" PhilipC says, "Any other corrections?" PhilipC says,
"Let's call the question. All in favor of approving the minutes, please say
aye. All opposed nay." Rose/Miros has arrived. Lunadyne says, "Aye" dcarson
says, "aye" bnault says, "aye" PhilipC says, "Let the record show that Rose
has arrived." PhilipC says, "We are voting on the minutes." pjbanyai says,
"aye" Rose/Miros says, "aye" AlanSteinberg says, "aye" PhilipC says,
"That's six ayes. James, if you abstain, please say so" Rose/Miros pokes at
Strangelv-4. PhilipC says, "As chair, I don't get a vote unless it's a
tie-breaker." PhilipC says, "The motion carries. I'll mark down James as an
abstention" Strangelv-4 says, "abstain" Rose/Miros says, "does it matter?
worst result is 6-2" PhilipC says, "I'd like to open the floor for five
minutes to give all of us an opportunity to discuss the agenda."
Strangelv-4 says, "IT may be safe to presume I've fallen back asleep if I
become nonresponsive" PhilipC says, "Is there anything in particular you'd
all like to discuss tonight?" Lunadyne says, "I can give an update on the
ad." Lunadyne says, "InOMN" PhilipC says, "Is there anything else?"
Lunadyne says, "Dave Dunlop forwarded a suggested schedule for our ISDC
2014 Lunar track." pjbanyai says, "I think I may have found out our problem
with Paypal. There is another site called http://www.paypalgivingfund.org/
which also needs to be setup. It requires the 501(c)(3) letter or other
proof of tax-deductibility and a voided organization check." PhilipC says,
"I think we also need to talk about Jim Keravala, This is now the 5th
meeting he's missed." dcarson says, "ah, good" PhilipC says, "So far we
have:" Strangelv-4 says, "Can we phone him?" PhilipC says, "InOMN ad"
pjbanyai says, "The Bylaws only count missed Board meetings and not
Management meetings." PhilipC says, "ISDC 2014 Lunar track" Lunadyne says,
"InOMN and the ad in Last Breath are different items." Strangelv-4 says,
"We already need to vote to re-add him when he appears" PhilipC says,
"Paypal" PhilipC says, "and Jim Keravala" Strangelv-4 looks at Paul
Strangelv-4 hmms. PhilipC says, "That's more than five minutes" PhilipC
says, "Time to close discussion" PhilipC says, "Let's start with our
reports." PhilipC says, "Ken, do you have a membership report?" Lunadyne
says, "Membership stands at 153, which IIRC is down four from my last
report a month ago." Lunadyne says, "My last message from Jim notes: 'Im
attending a summit meeting in Hawaii week after next associated with
PISCES. Is there anything from the moon society that youd like me to put up
on a table? Im in Beijing this week but we could discuss on Monday so I can
fill you in further.'" Lunadyne says, "So he's busy in Hawaii at the
moment." Scottyg says, "And we have one unprocessed membership in the
registration system" PhilipC says, "We can discuss Jim later in the agenda.
Let's focus on membership " pjbanyai says, "ARTICLE V-Section 4: The
failure of a Director to attend two or more successive meetings of the
Board without reasonable cause shall result in automatic removal of the
Director." PhilipC says, "Please refrain from any discussion related to
Jim, it's out of order. Let's stick with the agenda" PhilipC says, "Is
there anything else related to membership?" Rose/Miros says, "is the
unprocessed membership the guy who wants 6 years for the price of 4?"
Scottyg says, "No" Scottyg says, "The 6 for 4 is a done deal." pjbanyai
says, "Sorry, I seem to have a somewhat slow connection to the MOO. The
text feed is suffering from lag." PhilipC says, "The meeting does seem to
be moving along more slowly than usual" PhilipC says, "Ken do you have
anything else to report?" Lunadyne says, "Not for membership, no." PhilipC
says, "Thank you" PhilipC says, "Moving on to the treasurer" PhilipC says,
"Dana, you have the floor" dcarson says, "OK" Scottyg says, "Bank balance
as of Aug 31 was 32,166.27" dcarson says, "LRS sent a email tha they were
getting short on funds" Strangelv-4 says, "How much do we owe them?"
dcarson says, "so I totaled up this years invoices for MMM and sent them a
chack for $1289.90" dcarson says, "we still don't have the full total but
that gets a easy to remeber time done and gives them some cash" dcarson
says, "will keep up withj the new ones and see if I have all the numbers
for last year and if so do that one as well" PhilipC says, "For the purpose
of posterity, can you please elaborate on what LRS is and why we owe them
money" dcarson says, "Lunar Reclamation Society and this is to pay for out
Moon Miners Manifestos" dcarson says, "our" Lunadyne says, "As I understand
it, LRS owns MMM." dcarson says, "yes it started ad their newsleter I think
and then added many other NSS chapters and when we wanted a eswleter we
were added as well" dcarson says, "no other news this meeting, any more
questions?" PhilipC says, "So how is the MMM incurring a cost? " Rose/Miros
says, "printing, mailing of paper copies" PhilipC says, "That's all from
me. Does anyone else have any questions?" Lunadyne says, "Part of it is
that we need to distribute a certain number to take advantage of bulk
mailing rates." dcarson says, "with the drop in members I get several
copies" dcarson says, "if anyone wants extras we can have you get them"
PhilipC says, "But as stated previously, this is also going to a few NSS
chapters" PhilipC says, "Dana, one last question regarding the treasurer's
report, I noted that the amount in our bank account went up a little"
PhilipC says, "Where is that money from?"" dcarson says, "cost is $.95 US,
$1.95 Canad, $2.95 world, $.25 electronic" dcarson says, "Scotty did we gat
anything other then the usual memvbership payments?" pjbanyai says, "Would
it be possible to automatically send spare editions of MMM to select
libraries." PhilipC says, "Great idea!" Lunadyne says, "I approve." dcarson
says, "probably but they only have extras to get to the mailing permit
minimum when membership is lower then that amount" dcarson says, "hopefully
we can fix that" Strangelv-4 says, "Note that university libraries like to
binh things by year/volume, so they might appreciate it quiet a bit better
if we could firmyl get them a year's worth at a time instead of randomly"
PhilipC says, "Perhaps we can have Peter send extras to universities with
SEDS chapters" PhilipC says, "It might mean printing off an extra one or
two hundred but it would be worth it" Lunadyne says, "There aren't that
many SEDS chapters." dcarson says, "well a years subscription our cost is
$12 so comitting to that if the numbers go p isn't wxpwnsive" dcarson says,
"I'll ask LRS" PhilipC says, "We might also consider universities with
astronomy or planetary science majors" dcarson says, "and lets ask if a
university will actually keep them and not trash as unwanted" Scottyg says,
"Nothing much out of the ordinary on revenue." Lunadyne says, "Too bad no
one has a Lunar Studies dept." PhilipC says, "But there is a growing number
of universities with space systems engineering and space studies" PhilipC
says, "Ken, didn't you go to ISU for the MSM program?" dcarson says, "and
Space Law" PhilipC says, "does the ISU library collect journals of space
advocacy organizations?" PhilipC says, "I almost went there myself"
Lunadyne says, "Technically it was Master of Space Studies, which has
equivalencied as an MSc." Lunadyne says, "They do have a Library. Don't
know that they "collect" advocacy journals, but couldn't hurt to send them
copies." PhilipC says, "The hope is that students that browse through the
journals might come across the MMM and become interested" PhilipC says, "If
Peter is reading this meeting log, hopefully he'll send out a few emails
when he gets back from his cabin retreat" PhilipC says, "Let's move on "
Strangelv-4 says, "If it's with the academic journals don't xe surprised if
we get cited in someone's research" Lunadyne says, "That would be nice..."
pjbanyai says, "UCSB had the Planetary Society Newsletter and I think they
may have also had the Mars Society's." PhilipC says, "Ken, you have the
floor for the InoMN ad" Lunadyne says, "Again, two different items, I'll
start with the advertisement in the Last Breath comic." PhilipC says,
"Sorry" PhilipC says, "I stand corrected" Lunadyne says, "They have
received payment. The original deadline of fin-October remains, although
they said they're still working up pages." Lunadyne says, "I have been in
touch with Ray Cassell, the illustrator who prepared the "Descent into
Darkness" image for NSS. He has altered the image to my specifications. If
we had a decent e-mail service I would circulate it to everybody." Lunadyne
says, "So we're on track to have that done, and I hope it will be some good
exposure for us." Lunadyne says, "I'd like us to stay flexible so that we
can take advantage of these kinds of opportunities in the future." Lunadyne
says, "Any questions?" Rose/Miros says, "how big is the file? can you
upload it to the website?" Lunadyne says, "It's not too large. That was
going to be my next step, though I want to keep it firewalled for the
moment so that just Leadership can see it." Rose/Miros says, "so make a
page in the leadership book. attachments are under "attachments""
Rose/Miros says, "when you scroll down" Strangelv-4 tries to remember the
name of the book Lunadyne says, "Working on it..." PhilipC says, "Are they
expecting us to develop the ad?" Lunadyne says, "Not seeing a way to attach
a file. Just a text editor." Strangelv-4 says, "We may need to look for a
module to make this easier" Rose/Miros says, "scroll DOWN" Rose/Miros says,
"not in the text editor, the whole page" PhilipC says, "Let's focus on this
issue some other time. We should be moving on" Lunadyne says, "How far
down? I'm at the bottom of the page." Lunadyne says, "Where it says Save
and Preview" Lunadyne says, "In regards to InOMN." pjbanyai says, "It seems
a little strange that a similarly themed movie called Gravity is also
coming out in a few days. The difference simply being where in Space it
takes place. Maybe our united apathy about the risk of sending people into
space is finally coming under attack:/)" Lunadyne says, "That's coming up
on Saturday, October 12th. It will be a nice 1st Quarter Moon. I make
mention of it in my President's Rant." Strangelv-4 . o O ( Last Gap? Last
Breath? ) PhilipC says, "That deserves an entire meeting unto itself"
Strangelv-4 says, "Any chance of posting that rant to our web site?"
Lunadyne says, "I really wish we had a calendar." PhilipC says, "Ideally a
thread on a discussion board" PhilipC says, "But again, we need to move on"
Lunadyne says, "I will be at UTA Planetarium giving a talk." Rose/Miros
says, "hang on, this is weird.........." Lunadyne says, "Sorry, I guess
that's it on InOMN." Strangelv-4 says, "Calendar... need a checklist fdor
the things we need to add still" PhilipC says, "Yes, please move on to
InOMN" Strangelv-4 is in no shapoe to create the page with the checklist
Lunadyne says, "Philip, I've been talking about InOMN. Sat. Oct 12th. 1st
Qtr Moon. Will be at UTA." Lunadyne says, "I will be at UTA." Lunadyne
says, "Giving my Moon U. talk." PhilipC says, "InOMN = International
Observe the Moon Night" Lunadyne says, "everyone should try to get out and
do something in their community, as I note in my President's rant for MMM."
dcarson says, "http://observethemoonnight.org/" Lunadyne says, "Fix what?"
Rose/Miros says, "my site allowed attachments by default, i need to figure
out why they aren't allowed on test.moonsociety.org" Lunadyne says, "A Ha!
I knew I wasn't crazy! Everyone called me crazy, heh heh, but I knew I
wasn't..." Rose/Miros says, "my new neighbors are all batshit crazy, does
that count?" Lunadyne says, "I chose Leader's Area, parent item Kickstarter
Project" Rose/Miros says, "yep,that's right" Strangelv-4 neds a devices
with a big obvious button to threaten trick-or-treaters with Rose/Miros
says, "if you keep giving out cold treatments, they'll know not to come
back next year" Lunadyne says, "However I don't have any mechanism for
attachments as far as I can see on that input page." PhilipC says, "They're
batshit crazy and we're lunatics " Rose/Miros sure wouldn't go back to a
house giving out cold treatments Rose/Miros says, "yep, me neither"
Lunadyne says, "Ken might..." Rose/Miros says, "and i'm tje admin!" PhilipC
says, "Ken, is that all regarding InOMN?" Lunadyne says, "Any other
questions on InOMN?" dcarson says, "do we have materials to hand out if we
go to an event?" Rose/Miros says, "announcement: i lost 65 lbs" Rose/Miros
says, "did anyone find it?" Rose/Miros says, "i have fat clothes that don't
fit anymore, the person who found the 65lbs can have them if they want"
Lunadyne says, "Dang, I could use some fliers for FenCon this weekend,
where I'll be talking on a panel entitled "The Moon be Domed!"" Strangelv-4
sends Peter and Charles to talk to Ken about domes Lunadyne says, "Well,
it's on the general topic of Lunar Settlements. They wanted a catchy title,
which I provided, then they put a NASA asteroid guy as chair of the panel."
Lunadyne says, "Though with the shutdown, I may get to take over..."
Strangelv-4 says, "And Greg and Richard and..." Lunadyne says, "Don't
worry,I know how silly and unworkable domes are." Strangelv-4 says, "So I
can send you to talk to Bill" Rose/Miros says, "i think bill knows, i'm the
inventor of the envirodome as a SHORT TERM solution" Rose/Miros says, "we
have to have SOMETHING as a starter" PhilipC says, "Shall we move on?"
AlanSteinberg says, "please" Rose/Miros says, "sure]" PhilipC says, "Ok,
Paul, you have the floor, regarding paypal" pjbanyai says, "I don't know
all the details about how far we got on setting up a Paypal account.
However, a Non-profit account is must also be setup through the page I
mentioned earlier." dcarson says, "I'll look into it" Lunadyne says, "I've
been thinking about this. We seem to be spending a lot of time trying to
recover old stuff. Would it make sense to just set up new accounts in the
name of "The Moon Society"?" Scottyg says, "We actually have some money in
our account." dcarson says, "quite possibly, but paypal will close an
account if it is for the same person/group as one they closed" Lunadyne
says, "How much is in there, and how soon can we set up a tip jar on the
homepage?" Strangelv-4 is testing Pirex with anonher organization dcarson
says, "so I'd say use some other entinty then paypal if we ecidr to just
forget the old account" Scottyg says, "I don't remember the amount. I think
on the order of $1K." Strangelv-4 says, "Piryx, too, allso now known as
Rally" Rose/Miros says, "the society had that much money? i know tlrc had a
bunch" Rose/Miros says, "i'm sorry, i need to go to bed early, important
stuff in the morning" Rose/Miros waves Rose/Miros has disconnected.
pjbanyai says, "Paypal uses that site for charity. It confirms that someone
is a charity with Guidstar. I have setup a tipjar on facebook with Razoo.
It is also possible to place an api tipjar on a website." Lunadyne says,
"Let's make that a priority. I think folks who may not want to join would
still be willing to contribute." PhilipC says, "An effective way of raising
money is to ask people to donate their time" PhilipC says, "Busy people,
the kind that buy their kids things in lieu of actual affection, does this
all the time " dcarson says, "so maybe set up a tip jar with someone other
then paypal and continue working on recovering the paypal miney" The
housekeeper arrives to cart Rose/Miros off to bed. PhilipC says, "A paypal
charitable account would work well" Lunadyne says, "If we can get PayPal
fixed I'd rather go that route for the name recognition." PhilipC says,
"agreed" PhilipC says, "We have about 15 minutes left" PhilipC says, "Left
move on" PhilipC says, "Onto the topic of Jim Keravala." PhilipC says,
"Paul, you cited earlier a portion of the bylaws regarding missing
meetings" PhilipC says, "But you said that it only applies to board
meetings, not management committee meetings" PhilipC says, "It's mainly for
that reason that I feel compelled to bring up this topic" Strangelv-4 looks
at Scotty, who is hopefulyl more awake and better able to remember the
details PhilipC says, "He missed both August and both September meetings
and now this first October meeting" Strangelv-4 is about 2-3 hours from
time to wake up and has had about 90 minutes of sleep PhilipC says, "That's
five meetings" Strangelv-4 says, "We really do need attendance" PhilipC
says, "I mentioned before that I would be willing to go from a bi-monthly
calendar to a monthly calendar, with a heavier reliance on delegating work
to committees" Lunadyne says, "Have you reached out to him, Philip?" bnault
says, "maybe he is unaware of his responsibilities - his election is recent
after all" Lunadyne says, "I've tried, but our schedules keep conflicting."
pjbanyai says, "Management meetings are not mandatory. The only requirement
is that a majority of the members be voting or non-voting members of the
Board. Only Board meetings are mandatory for Directors to attend." pjbanyai
says, "Elected voting Directors to attend." AlanSteinberg says, "I'm very
much for monthly meetings, it seems that very little we do couldn't be
handled once a month rather than every two weeks." PhilipC says, "I haven't
tried contacting him yet. Ken, I figured that you were already doing that"
Strangelv-4 says, "Which means we may have written it when we were still
thinking in terms of the board and the leadership committee, back when all
real decisions were made by the boarld. And then the boarld never had
quorum..." PhilipC says, "I think if someone is going through the trouble
to run in one of our elections, they must want to be a leader" pjbanyai
says, "Some of this is based on Texas state law code." PhilipC says,
"Understandably, part of that means taking on responsibilities. the most
basic of which is to show up" Strangelv-4 says, "The attendance requirement
stuff we created. The source reference was the SLEC, whose automatic drop
is a bit less forgiving than ours" PhilipC says, "I think Jim would make a
valuable contribution to our activities, especially as we're beginning to
mull over teleoperations in lunar simulated environments" Strangelv-4 says,
"Then again, it has people driving hundreds of miles or paying airfare to
attend a physical meeting that only happens once a quarter." Strangelv-4
says, "I would consider what Pail is desccibing as a bug in opur bylaws,
though" Lunadyne says, "My recommendation would be for the Chairman of the
BoD to drop Jim a line and see if he has any questions." PhilipC says, "Of
course I'll contact him" PhilipC says, "Things never get done when we don't
nail down who's accountable for what" Strangelv-4 . o O ( Do we have
additional business? ) dcarson says, "a missing leadership member is
usually not a problem, quarom isn't hard to reach" dcarson says, "a missing
BOD member is harder and we can't just invite someone to replace them"
PhilipC says, "I could understand not making quorum because of burnout. I
admit that we meet pretty frequently" PhilipC says, "We could extend an
invitation back to Jason, but I sense that with him going into law
enforcement, he's going to be pretty busy" PhilipC says, "Again, I'd like
Jim Keravala to get involved. But it's up to him to do so" PhilipC says,
"As for additional business, there are two other optional topics we can
discuss. While otherwise anyone who wants to go should feel free to do so"
pjbanyai says, "Our bylaws wording on the Management Committee was based on
a flawed understanding of a confusing law code which was corrected in 2010.
We have unfortunatley not been checking annual updates to the Texas code
and updating our bylaws accordingly with minor ammendments. As long a
majority of Committee members are members of the Board we can still have
other voting members of the MC." PhilipC says, "The first item is to take a
poll on keeping the bi-monthly schedule or switching over to a monthly
schedule?" dcarson says, "monthly with email reminders of to do items so
things don't get forgotten" PhilipC says, "Alan and I favor monthly. Is
there anyone else who feels the same?" Strangelv-4 wanders off on the
assumption that there will not be any motions PhilipC says, "Before you go
James, what do you think?" Strangelv-4 says, "It would certianly make
things easier for me, but my thoughts aren't exactly objective at the
moment" Lunadyne says, "Ambivalent. It does seem like every time I turn
around I have a Wednesday night meeting..." bnault says, "monthly for me
also." Strangelv-4 says, "Could someone please note the time of
adjoirnment?" PhilipC says, "Sure" Strangelv-4 says, "danke" Strangelv-4
waves at AlanSteinberg, Lunadyne, PhilipC, pjbanyai, dcarson, bnault, and
Scottyg. pjbanyai says, "Officially the Leadership Subcommittee advises the
Management Committee. We could have a Leadership meeting at the beginning
of the month with decisions from these meetings becoming agenda items for
the MC meeting later in the month." PhilipC says, "If we go to a monthly
schedule, it would make sense for me to send out agenda notices 10 days
ahead of time and to try to lock it in the week before" PhilipC says, "The
Leadership Council is a standing committee" AlanSteinberg says, "which
would also help with the general streamlining of meetings" PhilipC says,
"That means a quroum of management committee members would make decisions
on behalf of the organization in between meetings, with limited authority"
PhilipC says, "We could also delegate more work to existing teams and
committees to do things in between meetings, and by not meeting so often,
we'll avoid meeting fatigue" PhilipC says, "Would you all like to try it
just for one month?" Lunadyne says, "Meaning...next meeting is early
November?" PhilipC says, "I only ask that we keep the 3rd Wednesday of the
month since I have another organization I attend, whose meetings take place
on the 1st Wed of the month, but that finishes at 9 pm " PhilipC says, "So
we'd meet again in 2 weeks but afterwards 4 weeks later" Lunadyne says,
"I'm game to try it out." dcarson says, "sounds good" PhilipC says, "How
does everyone else feel?" AlanSteinberg says, "sure, but can we make sure
to not get all the notifications for the meeting we arn't having?"
AlanSteinberg says, "it seems that I get 2-5 e-mails about meetings each
round" PhilipC says, "Paul, are you the one handling the Google account?"
pjbanyai says, "I can adjust the notifications. I am using my limited
moonsociety.info google account for notifications." PhilipC says, "Paul,
how do you feel about going to a monthly schedule?" bnault says, "really
need to go. Got work work to finish and two early meetings
tomorrow...sorry..." Lunadyne says, "Ditto." bnault has disconnected.
dcarson says, "move we adjourn" PhilipC says, "Remembers that Paul's
connection is lagging" PhilipC says, "Any second?" AlanSteinberg says,
"second" PhilipC says, "Any objections to adjourning at this time?" PhilipC
says, "Hearing none, we are now adjourned" PhilipC says, "The time is 11:12
pm. " PhilipC says, "Thank you all for coming!" AlanSteinberg has
disconnected. 
pjbanyai says, "To setup the official moonsociety.org account I need to be able to add google dns info for Google to recognize the domain."
-- End log: Wednesday, October 2, 2013 11:12:31 pm ASI Meeting Server time --