-- Start log: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 9:14:41 pm ASI Meeting Server time -- 
Strangelv says, "erm" Strangelv says, "I believ i just messed it
up" 
PhilipC says, "Hello and welcome to the Moon Society December 2013
Leadership Council Meeting." 
The housekeeper arrives to cart Rose/Miros off
to bed. 
-- End log: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 9:15:36 pm ASI Meeting Server time --

-- Start log: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 9:16:10 pm ASI Meeting Server time -- 
Strangelv says, "There" Strangelv says, "Sorry about that"
Strangelv leaves. Strangelv-1: PhilipC says, "Hello and welcome to the Moon
Society December 2013 Leadership Council Meeting." pjbanyai says,
"Leadership Council meetings are for general discussion of items pertaining
to The Moon Society and possible topics for a future Management Committee
meeting." Strangelv-1 says, "So we're going to not hold the meeting and go
for a meting on the third Wednesday?" PhilipC says, "although we agreed at
the Mid-October 2014 meeting to move from a bi-weekly to a monthly format,
we also agreed to only do so for one month on a trial basis." PhilipC says,
"unfortunately i had connectivity issues that day and was unable to get
online in time to chair the meeting and extend the schedule" PhilipC says,
"so technically we are supposed to meet tonight" pjbanyai says, "Also known
as loose Agenda brainstorming sessions. LC Meetings generally take place
when MC meetings do not have a quorum. They also often take place following
the MC meeting as after meeting discussions. " PhilipC says, "since we are
missing Ken, Ben, Jim, and Rose, i suggest we either make tonight a
leadership council meeting, aka a standing committeee, which allows for
nonessential management decisions to be made in between management
committee meetings ; or we can meet a" PhilipC says, "as the mgmt com and
take a1week recess" Strangelv-1 says, "I move to convene the management
committee and recess until 11 December 2013" pjbanyai says, "Ken is here"
PhilipC says, "what say the rest of you?" Lunadyne has arrived. Lunadyne
says, "Evening gentlemen. Apologies for my tardiness." Strangelv-1 says,
"We're convened as the leadership committee, and I moved to recess until 11
December" Strangelv-1 says, "So far there is no second" dcarson says, "Dana
Carson, treasurersecond" PhilipC says, "we need to take attendance first"
Strangelv-1 says, "What are we convened as?" Strangelv-1 says, "James
Gholston, secretary" Lunadyne says, "Ken Murphy, President" pjbanyai says,
"Paul Banyai, Vice President." PhilipC says, "on that note, will all who
are present state your name and position" PhilipC says, "Philip Crume,
Chairman" AlanSteinberg says, "Alan Steinberg, Director" PhilipC says, "Let
the record show that we have quorum" Strangelv-1 says, "Should I restate my
motion now?" PhilipC says, "There is a motion on the floor" Strangelv-1
says, "I move to convene the management committee and recess until 11
December 2013 at 20:00 CST" dcarson says, "second" PhilipC says, "go
ahead"" Strangelv-1 says, "Call the question" PhilipC says, "any
discussion?" PhilipC says, "all in favor say aye, all opposed nay"
Strangelv-1 says, "Aye" dcarson says, "aye" pjbanyai says, "aye" Lunadyne
says, "nay, just to be contrary." PhilipC says, "Alan?" Strangelv-1 says,
"Does someone else want to make teh motion called for mby this motion once
the management committee convenes, or should I make that motion too?"
PhilipC says, "i need alan to vote" AlanSteinberg says, "aye" AlanSteinberg
says, "sorry, having issues over here" Strangelv-1 looks at Philip PhilipC
says, "the motion carries, we are now recessed until Wed Dec 11" PhilipC
says, "at 9pm EST"" Strangelv-1 says, "Not quite, We made that as the
leadershipy committee" Strangelv-1 says, "We now convene teh management
committee" Strangelv-1 says, "That probabyl didn't need ot be a formal
otino in the leadership committee" pjbanyai says, "Leadership Council
meetings are for general discussion of items pertaining to The Moon Society
and possible topics for a future Management Committee meeting. Also known
as loose Agenda brainstorming sessions. LC Meetings generally take place
when MC meetings do not have a quorum. They also often take place following
the MC meeting as after meeting discussions." AlanSteinberg says, "and this
is why we need to just have a board and no other stupid commitees"
Strangelv-1 says, "We should not have convened as the leadership committee.
It's mostly historical, anyway" Strangelv-1 says, "It dates to ASI and was
superceded my the management committee" PhilipC says, "the leadership
council is supposed to only be used as a standing committee for making
non-critical decisions in between management committee meetings"
Strangelv-1 volunteers to chair the start of the management committee
meeting PhilipC says, "knock yourself out. we need to do the recess again"
Strangelv-1 says, ":: taps a gavel" PhilipC says, "and to take attendance"
PhilipC says, "hold on" pjbanyai says, "The LC is the after meeting. Or
when there is no quorum. Since we had a quorum we had a Managenment
Meeting. Now that the meeting is over we are in the general discussion
after meeting (The LC Meeting)" Strangelv-1 says, "The management committee
meeting of 4 December 2013 is hereby convened" Strangelv-1 says, "Let's
begin with attendance" Strangelv-1 says, "James Gholston, secretary"
dcarson says, "dana carson, treasurer" Lunadyne says, "Ken Murphy,
President" PhilipC says, "Philip Crume, Chairman (allowing James Gholston
to serve as acting chair due to connectivity issues)" pjbanyai says, "Paul
Banyai, Vice President. James can't you just amend the minutes to say the
correct info." Strangelv-1 says, "That's a quorum. Do we have a motion to
recess?" PhilipC says, "let the rec" pjbanyai says, "the Recorder will
eventually be replaced any way with a system which can edit mistakes."
PhilipC says, "motion sommade" PhilipC says, "*so made" Strangelv-1 says,
"Philip has moved to recess per the leadership committee motion" dcarson
says, "second" Strangelv-1 says, "Is there objection to calling the
question?" PhilipC says, "call the question" PhilipC says, "aye"
Strangelv-1 says, "If there is no kbojection..." Strangelv-1 starts
counting hands pjbanyai says, "aye" PhilipC says, "aye" Lunadyne says, "no
objection" Strangelv-1 says, "Okay that way -- is there objection to the
motion to recess?" Strangelv-1 says, "Hearing none, we are in recess"
dcarson says, "aye" Strangelv-1 says, "We' are now back in the leadership
committee meeting" PhilipC says, "no, we are recessed" Strangelv-1 hands
the gavel back to Philip AlanSteinberg says, "... okay, i've spent over 40
minutes here to acomplish nothing, I'm leaving" PhilipC says, "wwit"
AlanSteinberg has disconnected. Strangelv-1 says, "We need to resolve this
next week" Lunadyne says, "Wait, what exactly has been going on?"
Strangelv-1 says, "Are we discussing anything?" PhilipC says, "since most
of us are here" Strangelv-1 says, "Ken; confusion, and a congfused attempt
to deal with the confusion" Strangelv-1 says, "it's sorted out but ate up,
as Alan noted, a bit of time" pjbanyai says, "Reminder: Everyone in the MC
should have receieved an email about accessing our google apps account. The
email and mailing list/forums curently do not work properly since the MX
records have not been changed or routed through an alternative domain like
moonsociety.net. Currently we also do not have the DNS settings redirecting
our apps to our main domain." PhilipC says, "we voted to have monthly
meetings but only on a trial basis" Strangelv-1 says, "Pau[l, could you set
me up with a different account? I do not want Google connected to
jamesg@dimensionality.com" PhilipC says, "we forgot to extend the trial
permanently during the november meeting meeting because i wasnt there due
to connectivity issues" Strangelv-1 says, "I deleted all of my Google
accounts when they gchanged their privacy policy a year or two ago" PhilipC
says, "so technically we are supposed to meet tonight even though we agreed
to have meetings on the second wed of the month" pjbanyai says, "The
accounts are not linked to any email account. I just manually sent the info
to everyones email." Strangelv-1 says, "P%art of the downside of
adjournment being a non-debateable motion" PhilipC says, "but since we're
all here, we can have an informal discussion" Lunadyne says, "Well, since
we're having an informal discussion, I'd like to informally discuss the
membership level, which has dropped to 134." The housekeeper arrives to
cart AlanSteinberg off to bed. Strangelv-1 says, "Is this a dropoff of our
bost from ISDC 2012?" PhilipC says, "we need to finish the website
transition" PhilipC says, "and we need those of us who arent working on the
website to get started eorking on projects" Lunadyne says, "We need some
kind of focus for the organization for folks to marshal around.
Moon-focused, but in what regard?" PhilipC says, "ive suggested
teleoperations before" Lunadyne says, "What kind of teleoperative
operations?" pjbanyai says, "Dana's Moonsociety email account will need to
either be copied or imported, or we can permanantly keep the email routing
through moonsociety.net as a google apps alias. Google has recently added
several different ways to transition email routing." PhilipC says, "we'd
need to start off with some inexpensive robots connected to the web, even
if only IP controlled RC toys, ideally in a lunar-like enc" PhilipC says,
"environment" PhilipC says, "the ideal would be to work on remote
controlled ISRU" PhilipC says, "how does that sound?" dcarson says, "it
would make a good selling point" Lunadyne says, "Where would these be
housed?" Lunadyne says, "i.e. who takes care of them?" PhilipC says, "i
apologize for typing slow, im 2-finger pecking an ipad keyboard" PhilipC
says, "i have a few possible lunar sim locations in mind" PhilipC says,
"the top two sites on my list would be iceland and chile" Lunadyne says,
"That's a heck of a commute to fix a problem." PhilipC says, "no, we'd have
local partners" pjbanyai says, "We are eligible for Google
Grant/Advertising. This could put us at the top of Google searches
concerning Moon, Space Settlement, and possible a few other topics. We can
even have different adds pointing to different projects." PhilipC says, "if
you've watched oblivion, you have a good idea of what iceland looks like"
PhilipC says, "for teleoperations, the longer the amount of daylight that
is present the more int'l partners we can invite" Lunadyne says, "I do like
different ads for different projects." PhilipC says, "hawaii/pisces would
be a good partner for ITAR restricted projects" Lunadyne says, "I wonder if
the aurorae would be a good simulation of the level of Earthlight on the
Moon..." PhilipC says, "but iceland and chile would be good for generic
planetary science res" PhilipC says, "iceland during the winter season
would be good for simulated ice mining" Lunadyne says, "I'd be more
interested in drilling and scooping robots. Something with a
resource-extraction focus." PhilipC says, "i'm more of an all of the above"
PhilipC says, "i want resource extraction as well as more complex
operations" PhilipC says, "the more complex, the more intersting it will be
to our prospective audience" PhilipC says, "thus the better our recruiting
opportunities" Strangelv-1 says, "Overcommitment and projects that never
pan out have been a lotgstanding historical weakness for us, though. We
need at least one sure thing" PhilipC says, "we need a university partner
without any competing programs" PhilipC says, "we can start off small, say
a community college in a desert region with a seds chapter" PhilipC says,
"we could part er up with them, send them the robots, work with them to
connect them online, and we'd need to host any control server" PhilipC
says, "the important issue is the ter" PhilipC says, "terrain needs to be
volcanic basalt" PhilipC says, "this approach would allow us to start
small, at low cost, and it should generate a lot of intersest with those
who are interested in space developmentt" Lunadyne says, "Where would the
robots we sould send to the community college come from?" dcarson says,
"Hawaii and the Northwest then" PhilipC says, "we could buy them online or
hold a contest" dcarson says, "and a bit in southern Necada" dcarson says, "
http://water.usgs.gov/ogw/aquiferbasics/images/us_basalt.gif" dcarson says,
"maybe here on the east coast but I think thats a different kind of rock,
not volcanic" PhilipC says, "ive heard of jsc1 coming from arizona" PhilipC
says, "perhaps wecan find some partners there willing to act as hosts"
PhilipC says, "eventually, my ideal locations would be iceland and
antarctica" PhilipC says, "the terrain would be ideal" Strangelv-1 says,
"BTW< China's real world rover has launched" Strangelv-1 is rapidly falling
asleep dcarson says, "JSC-1 was mined from a volcanic ash deposit located
in the San Francisco volcano field near Flagstaff, AZ." PhilipC says, "ken,
i hope you can see that once we're confident that thewebsite is readyfor a
large influx of trafic, teleoperations would be a good recruiting tool"
dcarson says, "
http://ares.jsc.nasa.gov/HumanExplore/Exploration/EXLibrary/DOCS/EIC050.HTML"
Lunadyne says, "Philip, perhaps, but it is obviously going to need a fair
amount of resources behind it. " PhilipC says, "I'd say no more than $5k
tops to start and even thats being generous" PhilipC says, "we can start
off small" PhilipC says, "as we attract more people, we can start applying
for grant funding by offering a science educational component." PhilipC
says, "there's alot of nonprofit. funding in that area" PhilipC says, "we
can make the robots available on a "timeshare" basis to schools" PhilipC
says, "this would take a little work on our part but with a good media
outreach strategy, we could grow pretty big overnight" PhilipC says, "as"
PhilipC says, "as long as our robots are fun and engaging, theres no readon
we couldnt go viral" dcarson says, "do like we did with the solar power
project only better and provide info on how to duplicate them online?"
PhilipC says, "no. i dont want them duplicating anything. i want them to
rely. on us as a venue so they'll stick atound" Lunadyne says, "We should
do a pretty-up of the Solar Power Beaming Demo materials and market that as
a Science Fair project." PhilipC says, "i want them to use our systems to
develop their projects of their own" PhilipC says, "eventually i want to
give them very cool tools, like a parabolic mirror/solar oven, 3d printers,
etc" PhilipC says, "there's no reason we can't become THE. largest space
advocacy group in the world" pjbanyai says, "Better yet in the Moon ;)"
PhilipC says, "for now, we need to make sure that our website is attractive
and seamless, and that it can handle a lot of traffic" PhilipC says, "we
probably need to add other features to give people an opportunity to get
engaged" dcarson says, "there is a sry of home workshop books that start
with scrap aluminium and sand and work your way up to a full wotkshop"
dcarson says, "a set of designes for ISRU like that would be gooos" PhilipC
says, "and we're going to need to make sure that we can mange a large
volume if itcomes." PhilipC says, "dana, that project has been on my mind
for years" Strangelv-1 says, "I wonder if we could hunt down the members of
our old ISRU team. They were working on patentable plans and were looking
into a startup" PhilipC says, "it would be even better if we can domthat
project using teleoperated robots" Strangelv-1 says, "One theng we need at
a chapter level is 3D printers. I've s-till not managed to get together the
money for the parts to try to put one together and learn how to use it"
PhilipC says, "despite our current circumstances, i'm actually very
optimistic of what we can do" PhilipC says, "chapters are too small and
isolated. with a teleoperations site, access to 3D printers makes a lot
more economic sense. however its not hard to imagine that it could get
abuse." PhilipC says, "we'd need to have some oversight on what can be
produced" Lunadyne says, "As am I, I just share james' concern with
overpromising and underdelivering. Something I've had my fair share of
experience with here." Lunadyne says, "I'm trying to drag the Theme issues
across the finish line and am hitting snags." PhilipC says, "for now, we
can start off small. mining/extraction/surveying would be a good start.
once we have a few robots in place that are operational, we can contact
professional geology organizations for assistance in outreach" Lunadyne
says, "Our website went to market six months ago, but we're still futzing
around with the back end." Lunadyne says, "I still haven't seen the lava
tube videos from ISDC." PhilipC says, "i don't know what scotty's status
is. rose's husband is getting worse." Strangelv-1 says, "I spent half a
year doing nothing but the site and needed to spend time on other things"
PhilipC says, "i sense that i might need to just roll up my sleeves and
get" Strangelv-1 says, "Right now I have an incomplete novel that's nearly
55,000 words so far, although it may bliefly get shorter once I get a
handle on dealing with its editing issues" PhilipC says, "finish the job
myself" Lunadyne says, "I'm not blaming anybody. I'm just pointing out that
we have great ambitions but can't seem to handle basic operations."
Lunadyne says, "We did get that comic book ad done, though." Strangelv-1
says, "One roll-up-the-sleaves bit I need to schedule time for is to use
the deprecianed m.l.o. site for testing, as neither Dana's nor Scotty's
test sites are going to happen" pjbanyai says, "We need to get more help
from our members." Strangelv-1 says, "I need to stop waiting for them-"
Lunadyne says, "Agreed. I've called on their assistance many times."
Strangelv-1 says, "Everyone is overextended" PhilipC says, "we've put out
rquests before" Strangelv-1 says, "We all have too many commitments"
Lunadyne says, "And no young bucks to take up some of the burden."
Strangelv-1 says, "Then there's the bit that too many of us are taking care
of family in declining health" PhilipC says, "yeah" pjbanyai says, "Most do
not even know how to even begin to help." PhilipC says, "i think rose has
gone well beyond the call of duty in helping with the website migration"
Strangelv-1 says, "So did Scotty" PhilipC says, "we only asked her to focus
on maintenance, not an overhaul" Strangelv-1 says, "Scotty created a very
powerful Drupal module that I have already deployed to another site"
Strangelv-1 says, "That's not connected to the Moon Society (yet another
thing I need to get bakc to)" Strangelv-1 says, "Also note that we're
entering a new political season which will absolutely demand more time than
I could possibyl give it" Strangelv-1 says, "Oh -- something I forgot to
mention last time it came up" PhilipC says, "i need to work with scotty and
rose to give me the permissions needed to finish overhauling the site"
PhilipC says, "ken, any news on the logo artist?" Strangelv-1 says, "As an
organiszation, any activities on Beltway-directed leverl should probabyl be
focused on bureaucrats. Elections come and go, politicians quit in
disgrace, staff comes and goes. non-appointed bureaucrats tend to remain"
Lunadyne says, "Nope." Strangelv-1 says, "There's one possible connection
I've found, if Howard Blom isn't going to monopolize the guy's time. That
and fast food for lack of real jobs" Strangelv-1 says, "He's struggling
finincially" Lunadyne says, "I'd also like to get the permissions to have
my stuff on the website published to the front page." Strangelv-1 says,
"Goes by the handle of misterjessy" Strangelv-1 says, "I thought Rose fixed
that. " Strangelv-1 says, "Should I give you a phone number to try to reach
her sometime?" Strangelv-1 says, "In case she's- not in here when you come
looking" PhilipC says, "James, what does a belt-way bureaucrat have to do
with us?" Strangelv-1 says, "I don't know. I don't haev a specific
suggestion" Strangelv-1 says, "I'm just throwving that out for future
reference" Strangelv-1 says, "as it pertained to something that caet up
before and I got remitnded of it" PhilipC says, "oh" Lunadyne says, "Got
it." Strangelv-1 needs to break down and close windows probably. Or at
least turn off the fan. His window to air out the house before a wek or
more of freezing weather is closing PhilipC says, "we'll need to build
stronger relations with nasa of course, but also the state dept, fcc, nsf,
nas" Strangelv-1 says, "Depends ot the project. The one we've run into
troubel with in the past five years or so is the FCC" PhilipC says, "and
other agencies, as well as trade assns" Lunadyne says, "I've been building
better relationships with GLXP as part of my Solstice Moon Fest event at
the Fort Worth Museum of Science & History on December 21st." Strangelv-1
says, "We probably need to get the power beaming deo back up and running
sometime" Lunadyne says, "The demo that I have or a different one?\"
Strangelv-1 says, "I'm only awarle of one" Strangelv-1 says, "So if you
have one that's probably the only one" Strangelv-1 says, "ergo probably it"
PhilipC says, "we can probably do it without fcc approval if we limit our
operations to faraday cages" Strangelv-1 says, "That sounds expensive"
Strangelv-1 says, "One thing we did was to change the frequencies"
Strangelv-1 says, "I don't remember what the outcome was with that"
Strangelv-1 says, "Although simply showing the hardware without plugging it
in was a popular attraction in 2008 and 2009" Strangelv-1 says, "Most of
the work was three people. Scotty and Charles did the engineering work. I
don't remember who did the display" PhilipC says, "not really. its just a
steel wire mesh around a box" Strangelv-1 says, "It's not a small box to
build" Lunadyne says, "Scotty did some work on it and we've had it working
at the last two Moon Day events." Strangelv-1 says, "Oh good" Lunadyne
says, "Not going to use it at the Solstice Moon event, though, since I
don't have an FCC license. I'll just have the lavatube display and some
miscellaneous stuff." pjbanyai says, "As far as I can tell. Many NASA
employees seem to be joining Non-profits and founding Non-profits, or even
Goal oriented for profits in order to keep working on what the current
politicians at the time don't want them to work on." PhilipC says, "you can
buy a roll of porch screen me" Strangelv-1 says, "What could we do to make
ourselves an attractive possible home for someone ele's project?"
Strangelv-1 says, "ie three people have a project and join us with it"
PhilipC says, "thats something teleoperations would be good for" PhilipC
says, "porch screen mesh could be. used for a faraday cage" Strangelv-1
says, "Also we need places for motivated people to go besides the board and
management committee" Strangelv-1 says, "This is a bad place for people
sucseptible to aggravated boredom" Strangelv-1 says, "People who would be
perfect to have in other situations doing one thing after another" Lunadyne
says, "Speaking of aggravated boredom... JK! It is 10pm though, and I've
got other stuff to work on." PhilipC says, "i'll need to write up a formal
proposal for a teleoperations project." PhilipC says, "sure. thx for
sticking around. could you ping that artist to get a status on the
artwork?" Lunadyne says, "Okay, I'll try to have that for next week. Ken
out." Lunadyne has disconnected. PhilipC says, "in the meantime, i'll do
what i can to work on the. website and complete the transition process"
Strangelv-1 says, "I'm not in a condition to make any promises,
unfortunately" Strangelv-1 says, "I'm looking up frlom NaNoWriMo and
starting to see more of the avalanche of neglected activities. Not just
tweaks to Coriolis" Strangelv-1 says, "...and adding more buttons for the
spotlight that's been stuck at a rumwp subsadequate level. I realyl need
more ideas for what to add to it" Strangelv-1 says, "Hopefulyl moer will be
ready with a transition that's further along" PhilipC says, "i'm not
expecting anything. we've allowed this to drag on for far too long. its
time to get it in readonably good enough hape to call it a victory so that
we can focus on other things and adding other features" Strangelv-1 says,
"Also after NaNoWriMo I also have a novel draft that basicalyl demands
completion" PhilipC says, "i'd like to add a project management feature as
well as a forum" The housekeeper arrives to cart Lunadyne off to bed.
Strangelv-1 needs to add CRM to the site for his political action
committee; does that count? Strangelv-1 says, "Is the discussion here
officially concluded?" PhilipC says, "i know how that goes. i have an
uncompleted nonfiction book" PhilipC says, "we were meeting informally"
Strangelv-1 says, "Can you halt the recorder and senid the log? I never
quite mastered the stopping the recorder procedure other than having the
emailed log not go anywhere" PhilipC says, "i'm going to head off myself"
Strangelv-1 says, "Take care" PhilipC says, "sure" 
-- End log: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 11:13:02 pm ASI Meeting Server time --