-- Start log: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 9:10:15 pm ASI Meeting Server time-- 
PhilipC says, "Hi everyone and thank you for coming to the Moon
Society's Management Committee meeting. We are starting now at 9:10 pm EDT.
" Strangelv-1 says, "It would be good to get our free one set up. Failing
that, a non-free one may be needed. My default at this point is to use
Mike's as including Mike foul of us have full or near-full access. "
dcarson says, "speaking of which I did renew the moonsociety.org doamin
since last meeting" PhilipC says, "Let's get started. I'd like to ask
everyone who is here to please state your name and your position." PhilipC
says, "Philip Crume, Chairman" dcarson says, "Dana Carson Treasurer"
Strangelv-1 says, "James Gholston, Secretary, possibly distracted for most
of this meeting" pjbanyai says, "Paul Banyai, Vice President" PhilipC says,
"nudges scottyg" Scottyg-1 says, "Scotty Gammenthaler Assistant Treasurer"
PhilipC says, "That appears to be everyone who is present so far. As of
right now, we do not have quorum." PhilipC says, "I'd like to open the
floor for the next 5 minutes to discuss what we'd like to have on the
agenda" Scottyg-1 says, "I have a web team report." Scottyg-1 says, "And
can provide the bank balance." PhilipC says, "I had hoped that we'd be able
to finish the website by the beginning of march but it looks like we'll
need just a little longer. This will give us time to focus the meat of
tonight's agenda on policy and our future direction as a society." PhilipC
says, "We also need to get the ball rolling on Jessy Daniels" dcarson says,
"I've emailed him, need his address for a chak to mail since we aren't
setup for direct transfer" PhilipC says, "So far, we have: reports, getting
a contract with Jessy (probably needs to be signed by either Ken or myself
and includes sending a check), and policy" PhilipC says, "Anything else?"
PhilipC says, "If not, we can let the others request an addition if/when
they arrive." PhilipC says, "I'm sending out another quick blast to the
leaders listserv to remind them." PhilipC says, "Sent" pjbanyai says, "Has
anyone received an email from Amazon about their new nonprofit smile
account? I activated it on my personal account with Moonsociety
Incorporated as my chosen charity. Amazon said they would send an email to
the contacts listed on Guidestar to ensure that my "chosen Charity" can
receive donations. I think the main contact is for Scotty but they could
have sent the message to another email." PhilipC says, "I have not"
Scottyg-1 says, "I don't think I've received an email on that." dcarson
says, "not that I've seen, will search spam" PhilipC says, "Ok, it's been 5
minutes. Lets get started" PhilipC says, "Dana, whenever you're ready"
dcarson says, "what day did you activate it?" dcarson says, "emailed
Danials about paying himm" dcarson says, "renewed moonociety.org" dcarson
says, "paid greengeeks account" dcarson says, "installed new
secure.moonsociety.org cert" PhilipC says, "Dana, are you ready for the
treasurer report?" dcarson says, "have a coule docaind that need paying
from James" dcarson says, "any quaetions?" Scottyg-1 says, "Bank balance
was $30,913.59 as of Jan 31." Scottyg-1 says, "You should have one from me
too for the PO BOX." PhilipC says, "Could you retype that again? It was
garbled" dcarson says, "right, will get that out Scotty" PhilipC says, "A
couple of...." PhilipC says, "Dana, could you please retype what you just
said. I got a garbled message." dcarson says, "emailed Danials about paying
him" dcarson says, "renewed moonociety.org" dcarson says, "paid greengeeks
account" dcarson says, "installed new secure.moonsociety.org cert" dcarson
says, "have a couple of domains that James needs paid" PhilipC says, "thank
you. " PhilipC says, "Good." dcarson says, "oven, back in a minute" PhilipC
says, "Scotty, you're up" Scottyg-1 says, "Dana, has the server been
restarted to activate it?" Scottyg-1 says, "I can answer that myself."
Scottyg-1 says, "Ok, a lot of work has been accomplished on the site
migration, but there is still quite a bit to do. Its turning out to be a
rather larger task than I anticipated. (More pages and more links than my
initial estimate.)" Scottyg-1 says, "I'm working on getting a page count in
parallel with this meeting but don't have it at the moment." Scottyg-1
says, "I don't mean my next comment in a way of finding fault with anyone,
just a statement of fact...." Scottyg-1 says, "The web team is almost
defunct at this point. Everryone except me either has serious problems in
their personal lives, health problems, or more important things." dcarson
says, "back" Scottyg-1 says, "So progress is slow." Scottyg-1 says, "Oh -
this isn't exactly a web team issue, but who has access to our Google
account? The reminders need to be fixed." Scottyg-1 says, "I think that's
all." PhilipC says, "Scotty. Do you think we should hire outside help?"
dcarson says, "adding people to a late project makes it later since you
need to get them up to speed" Scottyg-1 says, "I guess all I can say is -
I'm going as fast as I can. If we need fasterr then help is needed."
PhilipC says, "You mentioned that there are more pages. Would you venture
to give us an estimate of how many more?" Scottyg-1 says, "Early on I was
somewhat negative about outside help because we did not have the problem
organized. A lot of my time has been spent on that issue. We now have a
spreadsheet showing all of the pages and with a little more work it will
show where they fit on the new sitre. Then it becomes mostly grunt work
which outside help could do." PhilipC says, "How much work do you think
needs to be done?" Scottyg-1 says, "Philip can I answer that a little
later? I'm working on the spreadsheet to get total and completed page
counts." pjbanyai says, "I think I deactivated all of the old reminders.
Everyone has an official google apps account yet nobody has logged in since
we were approved. There is a google apps calendar which any member can
access and choose whatever reminders that they want. " Scottyg-1 says, "I
should have it in another 30 minutes." PhilipC says, "Ok, we'll save that
for later. " PhilipC says, "The only other old business we have is the
matter of Jessy Daniels. I'd like to find a generic contract on the web,
modify it a little, and then have Ken sign it and then fax it to Jessy
Daniels, have him sign it, and then fax it back to Dana. Once we get the
signed contract, then Dana should can him a check." PhilipC says, "As we
mentioned before, We will be paying Jessy a retainer fee of $250 to get
started. I will most likely work with him on the specifics (of course
others are invited to participate)." pjbanyai says, "Correction only
leaders have Apps accounts. Ideally once everything is setup then every
member would have an account. Hopefully linked with api programming to
their main account so they could change one password for all parts of our
site:)" PhilipC says, "When I spoke with him already, I encouraged him to
start developing a list of other peoples' works that we can use to help
narrow down our preferences." PhilipC says, "When we find something we
like, we can then have him customize it and then give us a small portfolio
of options, from which we can choose the final logo" PhilipC says, "once we
like the final product, he'll send us all file pertaining to it (in
photoshop and regular graphics file formats)." PhilipC says, "Does this
sound okay to everyone?" dcarson says, "sounds good" PhilipC says, "All
that's left is a discussion on future policy" PhilipC says, "I'd like to
hear from Dana and Scotty in particular since you two were a part of this
when TMS was founded. " PhilipC says, "Last week, I finally spoke with Greg
Bennett." dcarson says, "policy on the logo or in general?" PhilipC says,
"Policy in general" PhilipC says, "First Greg mentioned that there was the
Artemis Project. Then ASI was set up to convert it into a member
organization and later TMS was founded to make it appeal to the general
public." PhilipC says, "Now that TLRC and ASI seem defunct, let's go back
for a moment to the very beginning" PhilipC says, "What was it that the
Artemis Project tried to achieve. What would you still like us to do? What
do you think we can do? What drives you and still gives you passion?"
dcarson says, "my problem/excuse for poor performance is I don't have much
passion left" dcarson says, "but space based solar with follow on industry
and the start of people living off this planet" Strangelv-1 says, "This is
a committment, but my passion is for thdings that we're not doing right
now. I would be a great deal more energized if we could get TLRC and ASI at
least partially back up and running" dcarson says, "thats what drives me"
PhilipC says, "How about you James and Paul, what about you two?"
Strangelv-1 says, "WE have a missing piece that's not been filled. We need
our missing piece back." PhilipC says, "Paul, what about you?" Strangelv-1
says, "Even if TLRC is going to need to change its focus to assist other
people's hardware plans" Strangelv-1 says, "This said, if we could get our
literal rocket scientists back..." PhilipC says, "Paul... are you here?"
PhilipC says, "Until he responds..." PhilipC says, "I KNOW Ken is
passionate about space. He wouldn't get a Masters in Space Management from
ISU if he wasn't. " PhilipC says, "Jim is real go-getter who puts all of us
to shame. Its great that he has the means to attend conferences and put his
name out there." pjbanyai says, "Just sent a long whisper to Scotty. As a
public charity we have certain limitations on what we can do. Many
charities are setting up less restricted daughter companies which can act
as their more active project arms." Strangelv-1 says, "TLRC was for-profit
from the start; ASI was essentially a (c)(4)" PhilipC says, "But Paul, what
drives you? What future direction would you like to see us go?" Strangelv-1
says, "Work is going to be needed to get them back into usable shape. It's
absolutely worth it to do so, however" Scottyg-1 says, "Ok, I finished ther
page counts and I'm paying attention now." Strangelv-1 looks at Scotty
PhilipC says, "Scotty, go ahead." Scottyg-1 says, "420 total pages, 195
completed, another 25 or so partially migrated but links need fixing."
pjbanyai says, "Would be nice if documentaries went to us for info about
lunar settlement in the same manner that they go to the Mars Society :) "
PhilipC says, "Scotty, how long will it take to finish it?" Jim [Guest] has
arrived. Strangelv-1 says, "Hello" PhilipC says, "Hi Jim!" Jim [Guest]
says, "hi" Jim [Guest] says, "made it" Strangelv-1 says, "I belive we have
quorum now" Jim [Guest] says, "apologies for delay" PhilipC says, "No
problem. Thanks for coming" Jim [Guest] says, "had to reinstall new client"
Jim [Guest] says, "anyway please continue" PhilipC says, "Scotty just
mentioned that we have 420 total pages, 195 completed, and another 25 or so
partially migrated but links need fixing" Scottyg-1 says, "There is
actually an inaccuracy in those counts - They do not include content
embedded in pages (mostly images) that have also been migrated." pjbanyai
says, "That reminds me. Does anyone know what is happening with the
International Lunar Research Park?" PhilipC says, "Perhaps Jim can answer
that. But let's have Scotty finish" Jim [Guest] says, "righto" Strangelv-1
says, "I've not heard about that singe we got shoved aside, but I've seen a
photo somewhere. The cargo plane was definitely incorporated into it."
PhilipC says, "So Scotty, how long will it take to finish? " PhilipC says,
"Understand that no one here expects you to shoulder all of the burden by
yourself. If we need to hire someone we can do that." PhilipC says,
"Apparently he's afk for some reason" PhilipC says, "We can take a brief
moment to discuss the International Lunar Research Park" Jim [Guest] says,
"ok" PhilipC says, "Jim, if you have a moment" Jim [Guest] says, "so ILRP
was proposed around '11 as an evolving set of facilities starting with a
terrestrial analog on Hawaii, expanding from that and then ending up with
an actual lunar based eesearch park to continue developments as the
cislunar exosystem evolved" Scottyg-1 says, "I've been actually migrating
pages for about 3 weeks. The time before that was spent getting organized.
Based on that, I would estimate about three more weeks, but I'll be on
vacation next week so 4 weeks from now." Jim [Guest] says, "PISCES has been
reasonably auccesful in obtaining funds for establishing a set of
facilities for operations on the big island that will allow robotics,
processing, simulant amd other experiments to take place" PhilipC says,
"Scotty, would you be open to us spending say $1-2k to hire someone full
time to take over and finish it? We could use that to also have them do any
redesigns if needed (hopefully not too much)." Jim [Guest] says, "the ILRP
will likely evolve from that either in original form or adapted" Jim
[Guest] says, "so bottom line os that there is progress being made, albeit
in the main interim step" Scottyg-1 says, "Philip, yes, but let's let Jim
finish. I have a couple of thingd to say about it." PhilipC says, "Jim,
sorry about that. " Jim [Guest] says, "np, thats my summary. lets asdress
scottys comments first" Jim [Guest] says, "then we can eecert" Jim [Guest]
says, "revert" Strangelv-1 stands corrected. He was confusing this for the
effort in Chile we were involved with for a time Scottyg-1 says, "Ok, what
I meant wasn't clear. Things to say about hiring someone." PhilipC says,
"Ok back on point: Scotty" Scottyg-1 says, "Ok. I would need to do a little
more work on organizing before we can hand this off. And due to vacation It
will probably be 1-1/2 weeks before I can do that. In that context, yes I
would be for getting some help." PhilipC says, "Although we could authorize
an expenditure right now, I'd like to get a few more people to sign off on
that. But I think we're all open to doing that." PhilipC says, "Anything
else before I pass the torch back to Jim?" Scottyg-1 says, "Yes. Just
wanted to be sure the gain from hiring someone will probably not exceed 2
weeks because of a delay in starting." Scottyg-1 says, "Yes. Just wanted to
be sure we understand the gain from hiring someone will probably not exceed
2 weeks because of a delay in starting." Scottyg-1 says, "That's all."
PhilipC says, "Thank you. " PhilipC says, "We will probably need to hold an
email vote on that and to try to hash it out there with those who aren't
here" PhilipC says, "Ok Jim, you were talking about ILRP and PISCES" Jim
[Guest] says, "ok" Jim [Guest] says, "just to recap" Jim [Guest] says, "i
think the ILRP project is 'on the table' but the efforts to establish the
PISCES center is a necessary focus that will enable the next steps for ILRP
to be taken" Jim [Guest] says, "i've been impressed with the efforts the
PISCES operations team have made, especially considering the combined
financial support coming from state authorities" Jim [Guest] says, "any
questions?" PhilipC says, "Some questions I have for you on that is what do
you think of TMS doing do differentiate itself from ILRP and PISCES, and do
you think there would be any problems if we pivot more into engineering
research?" Jim [Guest] says, "TMS can have distinct value adding
advantages" Jim [Guest] says, "firstly, PISCES is acheiving good things,
but it does so within a bounded govt supported framework. TMS is relativley
flexible to operate how it chooses so there may be things that can be more
freely undertaken" Jim [Guest] says, "in terms of engineering research, a
clear set of initial focusses should be established in my view, then
enhance the membership in those areas. once the projects are defined we can
crowdfund any number of small projects and demonstrate results to build
from there" Jim [Guest] says, "its all quite possible with some emergy and
focus" PhilipC says, "Given your agenda, as you've discussed it with us,
with your focus on Shackleton Energy and PISCES, do you think there's
something that we can do to complement the work you're doing there?" Jim
[Guest] says, "we're submitting CASIS proposals right now, so let me
address that question after the outcome in a month or two so i can narrow
down the opportunities. clearly partial gravity effects on materials,
fluids and biosystems is important as are temperature variances for
operating in cold traps and lava tubes" Jim [Guest] says, "research could
be fundamental in nature or operational concepts" Jim [Guest] says,
"perhaps some of the low hanging fruit exists in coming up with bits/atoms
interface" Jim [Guest] says, "auch as demo experiments using 3d printing
with teleoperated robot for example" PhilipC says, "That's definitely
something I've been thinking about doing" Jim [Guest] says, "how to
establish an inmanned lunar 3d pronter, as an example off the top of my
head" Strangelv-1 hmms. PhilipC says, "I understand the rationale behind
generic public research and specific private research." Jim [Guest] says,
"sure" Jim [Guest] says, "there are many approaches we can take" PhilipC
says, "We tried to do that with TLRC but I think the main problem it ran
into was the intermixing of two distinct objectives:" PhilipC says,
"economic sustainability and space colonization" PhilipC says, "in my
opinion, we can't mix the two in the beginning" Jim [Guest] says, "ok, we
can learn from that experience and ensure the principles are distinctly one
or the other" Jim [Guest] says, "i think reaching out for fonancing
publically is still compatible with a privately executed project" PhilipC
says, "space colonization will best happen with economic subsidies. But if
we have teleoperations, we can avoid having to shoulder the financial
burden that comes with also attempting to build space colonies" PhilipC
says, "as far as our next steps, I submitted an overview of a pretty
extensive program proposal back in early january" PhilipC says, "it would
involve separating specific private research with general public research."
PhilipC says, "TMS would gather support for the public side. But we will
need to probably resolve ITAR issues with the State Dept. or the White
House" PhilipC says, "specifically since we would only focus on generic
pure science or industrial research relating to the space environment (also
fulfills the spirit of the Outer Space Treaty), while keeping private
research nested in ITAR confidentiality" Jim [Guest] says, "well, ITAR may
not be an issue if the tech deployed is outside of the scope" PhilipC says,
"imo, ILRP would serve as an ideal site for ITAR-covered research" PhilipC
says, "but I can think of a few other sites that would be ideal for public
side research" Jim [Guest] says, "although ILRP is international in nature
too" Jim [Guest] says, "so either way that would have to be addressed"
PhilipC says, "However given the scale of what I think we'll need, I sense
that the ILRP facility may not be enough" Jim [Guest] says, "eventually
yes" PhilipC says, "I think when they say international, they really mean
multi-national or a coalition of the willing" Jim [Guest] says, "true" Jim
[Guest] says, "i'll check out your january proposal again" Scottyg-1 says,
"Philip, when you & Jim are done I'd like the floor for a minute." pjbanyai
says, "There is a Neurogaming Conference taking place in San Francisco on
May 7-8, 2014. It will cover technologies like motion control, haptics,
real space VR, and neurosensing in relation to not only gaming but
teleorobotics and health monitoring." PhilipC says, "for now, I want to
focus on dual-use technology. but my end-goal will very likely require true
international cooperation. I know we still have a few major political
hurdles to overcome" PhilipC says, "Sure Scotty, go ahead" Scottyg-1 says,
"Philip, you asked while I was working on the page counts: "What drives you
and still gives you passion?"" Scottyg-1 says, "My answer: I became excited
about the Artemis Project and ASI after reading about it in Analog magazine
because it seemed to be an organization actually DOING something instead of
talking about it. I promptly joined ASI in 1995 and started looking for
wways I could contribute. While I'm an engineer with skills that could be
useful in some areas, it seemed like the most immediate impact could be in
website development and helping build the adb and I got involved in those.
A bit later, there was a need for someone with enough business sskills to
serve as Treasurer so I took that on, initially with TLRC and later with
ASI and Moon Society. But over the years, many of the people with skills to
do things drifted away and ASI and Moon Society became organizations that
were mostly talk and not much do. I saw an opportunity to shift that with
the solar power beaming project and I took that on. But then there was no
follow up and we're still mostly talkers, no! t doers. Becoming doers is
what will get me motivated." Jim [Guest] says, "roger that!" PhilipC [to ]:
respond: PhilipC says, "In the months to come, we will be exploring lego
mindstorms and very likely diving deep into arduino" PhilipC says,
"telerobotics and hardware research will very likely be on the menu"
Scottyg-1 says, "That's all I wanted to say." PhilipC says, "unlike
TLRC..." PhilipC says, "I favor a more flexible approach to lunar
development" Scottyg-1 says, "The TLRC model was flawed in several ways."
PhilipC says, "I favor tapping into other's expertise whenever possible and
using a more syndicated approach to development, where anyone with an idea
that can contribute our goal of achieving economic sustainability will be
able to set up their own company to help" PhilipC says, "TLRC had many
flaws but the worst one of them all was trying to do everything themselves"
Scottyg-1 says, "I thing the worst was trying to control it vs helping it
along." Scottyg-1 says, "Two different ways of saying the same thing."
Strangelv-1 says, "That was arguably appropriate in 1994. Nobody else was
doing much, and the most interisting stuff beinf done about the Moon was
the Mad Revisionist wrote a paper arguig that it didn't actually exist."
PhilipC says, "the key is to develop an industrial ecosystem with symbiotic
relationships" Strangelv-1 says, "A telepresence robot bus a 3D printer
sounds like a pretty nice project" PhilipC says, "As we pivot to a more
research-centered organization, we'll focus primarily on general/public
research while coordinating with private organizations" PhilipC says, "If
you can develop one, go for it. " PhilipC says, "I think my full proposal
will be received well and it won't step on anyone's toes." PhilipC says, "I
will finish it up in the weeks to come and we can have an email vote on
approving it." Jim [Guest] says, "sounds good" PhilipC says, "I think
that's all for now unless anyone else has anything they'd like to add." Jim
[Guest] says, "in my experience, change at the boundary of achievement
ALWAYS results in some beuised toes" Jim [Guest] says, "dont be too worried
about that - we're all of one spirit and can sacrifice a few metatarsel
capilliaries" PhilipC says, "If there's nothing else, can I have a motion
to adjourn?" PhilipC says, "lol" Jim [Guest] says, "motion to adjourn"
dcarson says, "second" PhilipC says, "Any objection to adjourning at this
time?" PhilipC says, "We are now adjourned. " Jim [Guest] says, "later
team" PhilipC says, "Thank you all for coming." Jim [Guest] says, "thanks"
PhilipC says, "Thank you Jim" Jim [Guest] says, "apols again for techwall"
Jim [Guest] says, "got theu it" Jim [Guest] has disconnected. The
housekeeper arrives to remove Jim [Guest]. Scottyg-1 says, "Dana, you
installed the new SSL cert but the server hasn't been restarted?" Scottyg-1
says, "(The server reports that the active cert is still www.moonsociety.org)"
Strangelv-1 assumes that the last thing Philib did was the gavel, so he
ecords 22:09 for adjournment dcarson says, "I thought I asked Randall to
reboot, let me look" Scottyg-1 says, "Actually its good that it hasn't been
restarted because links that point to it need to be changed." dcarson says,
"arrgh, no recnt email to Randall, old timers disease strikes again" 
-- End log: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 11:19:42 pm ASI Meeting Server time --