-- Start log: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 9:06:42 pm ASI Meeting Server time --
PhilipC says, "Hello and welcome to the 2014 May 14 Management Committee
Meeting." PhilipC says, "For the purpose of attendance, will all who are
present please state your name and position for the record." PhilipC says,
"Philip Crume, Chairman" Strangelv-2 says, "James Gholston, Secretary"
Scottyg says, "Scotty Gammenthaler, Assistant Treasurer" dcarson says,
"Dana Carson, Treasurer" pjbanyai says, "Paul Banyai, Vice President"
PhilipC says, "Ok, that's everyone who's here right now." Strangelv-2 says,
"and one short" PhilipC says, "The agenda for tonight will include the
Membership and Treasurer's Report, a progress report on the website,
discussion/approval of the logo (http://www.jessydaniels.com/themoonsociety/),
discussion of recruiting a focus group, and if needed on the hiring of a
website designer, " PhilipC says, "Does anyone have anything else they'd
like to discuss here?" Strangelv-2 tries to remember Strangelv-2 says, "Two
things, but both require Ken" PhilipC says, "Yes, no, some non-English
alternative 3rd option?" PhilipC says, "They are?" Strangelv-2 says, "Moon
Day and his discussion with Peter" Strangelv-1 has disconnected. The
housekeeper arrives to remove Strangelv-1. pjbanyai says, "I have
registered to go to the ISDC in LA." Strangelv-2 says, "That is definitely
rerlewant" PhilipC says, "That reminds me, if we approve the logo, we
should probably also talk about spending some funds on banners,
letterheads, and business cards" PhilipC says, "That's great!" Strangelv-2
says, "And something I'd given up on might become a possibility" dcarson
says, "and flyers to put on freebie tables at cons etc" PhilipC says, "If
there's nothing else. Lets get started!" PhilipC says, "Dana, do you have a
Treasurer's report for us?" Strangelv-2 has minutes, but there may be a
needed ammendment brought up in email dcarson says, "check sent to logo
designer" dcarson says, "which he must have gotten since we have desing"
dcarson says, "nothing else not routine" PhilipC says, "We paid him $250."
dcarson says, "Scotty, latest total?" PhilipC says, "We still need to pay
him another $250 if we approve the logo design." dcarson says, "yes"
Scottyg says, "Bank balance as of April 30 was $31,080.33." Scottyg says,
"A drop of a little over $300 from prior month." PhilipC says, "It should
be noted that without depositing our funds in an account that generates
more interest than inflation, our funds have dropped in value a little. "
dcarson moves CD back up from where it is hiding on todo list Strangelv-2
says, "AFAIK, no such account exists, at least not focr what the actual
inflation rate is, but that would be an economic argument" Strangelv-2 is
in no condition tno argue such things right now PhilipC says, "We could buy
30 year bonds, which we can always sell again at a later point."
Strangelv-2 says, "Unless those bonds rapidly hit their intrinsic value
first" Scottyg says, "Probably not very good timing for buying bonds right
now." Strangelv-2 says, "Governments are defaulting with increasing
regularity right now, whether openly or with a healthy dose of denial"
Strangelv-2 says, "and note have dug a deeper hole than the US Government"
PhilipC says, "I think it's very unlikely that the USG will go bankrupt any
time soon. We probably don't need to make a decision now but we need to
make one before we lose another 3-5% of our net worth due to inflation."
Scottyg says, "Interest rates going up is driving bond prices down."
Strangelv-2 says, "Interest rates may be impossible to hold down much
longer" PhilipC says, "Maybe each of us can submit a list of suggestions
for next month?" PhilipC says, "for what to invest our money in" PhilipC
says, "Let's move on to the next agenda item." PhilipC says, "Otherwise we
can talk about this all night" Strangelv-2 says, "It's possible the closest
we may come to an agreement on might be a basket approach, so that if
disaster befalls one option hopefulyl at least one other remains standing"
PhilipC says, "Moving on... to the Membership Report. Does anyone have the
numbers?" Scottyg says, "Just a minute...." pjbanyai says, "Current
membership is 136. Just realized that David Dunlop the ISDC Lunar Sub-track
Chair and our roving ambassador/Liaison Director/Lunar Science Mission
Advocate has an expired membership. We really should have some way of
linking with NSS membership database and setting up a dual membership
discount. NSS membership has decreased to $20." PhilipC says, "I would not
be in favor of us dropping our membership rate when we right on the
threshold of a major boom" Strangelv-2 says, "Without quorum we can't act
on any decision involving a change right now anyway" PhilipC says, "Does
ISDC have the conference agenda out already? " pjbanyai says, "Our Facebook
numbers are also dropping we need more activity on the main Page. Facebook
posts are also forwarded to twitter and possibly LinkedIn." Strangelv-2
says, "Is there a place I could send 11th hour 2.5 inch buttons?"
Strangelv-2 says, "There's been at least one update on the topic of our
current main page post that no one, idncluding me, has managed to find a
momet to post about" dcarson says, "we've been doing all out activity on
the group facebook page, we need to remember to post things on the official
page also" pjbanyai says, "Master schedule at
http://isdc.nss.org/2014/schedule-wed.html. Track info at
http://isdc.nss.org/2014/tracks.html." PhilipC says, "If we approve of the
new logo, we can post that on FB. When we're done with the website, that
too will become a topic. When we approve of a new slate of projects and
possibly revise our mission statement. Then that will become a topic. But
once we have a new slate of projects, then we can start commenting on broad
political events like the US-Russian space relations right now." PhilipC
says, "But we have to fix the website first before we draw in a lot of
attention, otherwise people are going to give up easily." PhilipC says, "It
looks like the membership numbers haven't changed much." PhilipC says,
"Let's move on to the website. Scotty do you have anything to report?"
pjbanyai says, "By the way our Facebook Logo is blank. We still have the
large cover banner, however we are currently not easy to locate on facebook
searches." Scottyg says, "As shown in the latest migration status I sent
out this morning...." Scottyg says, "We've completed migration of 306 pages
and have 84 to go." Scottyg says, "I'm averaging 4 or 5 pages per day, so
without help I expect to finish in 3 weeks." Strangelv-2 doesn't remember
what the colors represent Scottyg says, "Something fairly simple I could
use help with is just navigating through all of the site checking for
broken links." Scottyg says, "Green, cyan and red are good." Scottyg says,
"yellow and pink still need work." PhilipC says, "How would we fix these
links?" Scottyg says, "Actually, everything has been migrated in some form,
but the remaining pages typically use the wrong layout template and have
old nav links." Scottyg says, "Philip, anyone with admin rights can edit
pages, or report them to me and I'll fix." PhilipC says, "Is it only
reassigning links?" Scottyg says, "Generally yes. In some cases that
requires figuring out what the correct link is...not always as easy as it
sounds." Strangelv-2 tries to remember what spider software could be used
ot automaticalyl check for mroken links b,t hasn't looked into anything of
the sort for quite awhile PhilipC says, "Can everyone here help out with
that?" PhilipC says, "Say, do 20 pages each? " dcarson says, "I'll try"
Strangelv-2 says, "is there a spcreadsheet column corres-ponding to checked
for broken links?" Scottyg says, "No, but we can add anything needed to
it." Strangelv-2 says, "So assume for now that none have been checked?"
Scottyg says, "Actually, I'm checking them as I go, but this is partly to
double-check my work and partly to spot any that have been broken by
subsequent work." Scottyg says, "So they should all be checked."
Strangelv-2 says, "So rather than a yes/no the proper contents of the
column would be the date last checked?" Strangelv-2 says, "So we should
tell you when we checked a page, not just that we didL" Scottyg says, "A
problem in any work of this kind is you don't have all of the final links
until all pagres have been migrated." Strangelv-2 says, "...?" Scottyg
says, "Yes, a date would be good." Strangelv-2 says, "or rather the date
and any problems found..." Scottyg says, "I'm not too worried about broken
external links." Scottyg says, "Thats an ongoing problem that requires
continual maintenance." Scottyg says, "But broken internal links are our
problem and need to be fixed." pjbanyai says, "I just checked WSD's list of
users does not list Philip. We should make sure all Leaders have access."
Scottyg says, "In other words, broken external links are not part of the
migration." PhilipC says, "With or without a spreadsheet, is everyone here
willing to help connect the links on the last few pages? That includes me
too." Scottyg says, "Agreed, but this is mostly not WSD work." dcarson
says, "sure" Strangelv-2 says, "I'm trying to think of what would be a
process. Scotty, please to not hesitate to bug me about this in the MOO, as
well as others who are regulars here. It's an excellent example of why we
hang out in here" Scottyg says, "Most of the work will be in Drupal."
Strangelv-2 . o O ( spreadsheet -> CSV -> script -> HTML file -> open range
of links in browser tabs looking for trouble? ) Strangelv-2 says, "HTML
file to open in a browser?" Strangelv-2 begins to despair of quorum
arriving Scottyg says, "Some of the pages are outside Drupal and I'll be
creating a way to edit those online. At present, those require download
with ftp, local edit, and upload with ftp. I'll handle those when someone
points me to them." PhilipC says, "Maybe next time. I already sent out an
email to everyone at the start of the meeting" PhilipC says, "We might need
to do an email vote for the logo." Scottyg says, "That's all I have on the
website Philip." Strangelv-2 says, "One meeting a month makes not having
quorum that much mbore of a problem. We may need to get the board to ammend
our absentee rules if we continue with one meeting a month" Strangelv-2
says, "We would want discussion befgore voting" PhilipC says, "When the
website problem is resolved and we start focusing more on strategy and
policy, I would like to believe we won't have these problems any more. If
not, then hopefully we'll be able to recruit a lot more members and will
have a larger pool of potential leaders." PhilipC says, "Do I need to bug
everyone here to do something over the next few weeks to help with the
website or can I take you at your word?" pjbanyai says, "I also turned off
all reminders in the hope that everyone would login to the calendar and
setup their own reminders. Unfortunately, nobody has yet logged in to
Google Apps." Strangelv-2 says, "I can find time to check pages, especially
if Scotty reminds me here in the MOO" dcarson says, "a reminder in a week
for those of us with minds like steel seives might be good" PhilipC says,
"I will put a reminder in my calendar for next week to check up on the
website progress." PhilipC says, "Moving on." Strangelv-2 says, "There are
other retulars who are not in this meeting or even presently on this
committee who might also help if it's made easy and straghtforward."
PhilipC says, "Did everyone here check the link on Jessy Daniel's website?
What do you think of his logo?" pjbanyai says, "Technically we are supposed
to hold a Board meeting this month." Strangelv-2 says, "While I find it
preferable to what we're presently using, I'm not sold right now on the
idea that it rises to the level of not having one at all" dcarson says,
"pretty good, and the compact version for things like icons is nice"
Strangelv-2 says, "Is it possible to ask for a second version with a set of
adjustments to his described thought process? Move his metaphorical
telescope to the Lunar surface? There's plenty of persons, places, and
things to look at either physically, metaphorically, or abstractly.
Inclusion of words is not a requirement, as they could be located
separately or in an assortment of positions" PhilipC says, "Do you have any
locations on the lunar surface in mind? " Strangelv-2 says, "A list of
suggested locations might be in order, and coming up with a list might
require some discussion-" PhilipC says, "Maybe instead of putting that in
the logo, we can put the surface perspective in other art work like banners
and the like" dcarson says, "I do think you try to put too much detail into
logos James" Strangelv-2 says, "OUtside the surface access to a lava tube
city? Near a base buried in regolith? What are some probable pieces of
infrastructure that might exist? We'd certianly get Charles RAdley's
approval iyf we listed a beanstalk through a certian lagraneg point"
Strangelv-2 says, "It could be completely abstract. It's a prob[em that
applies to most of what I proposed historically, The view is arguably off
by 360 degrees. This is said, it might be possible to sell me on the
current proposal, but I'm not there yet" Strangelv-2 says, "Another problem
I have: it's a circle or sphere" Strangelv-2 says, "Those ar almost as
invisible as swooshes" PhilipC says, "I for one have a strong disagreement
with Radley's Leespace proposal. Radley completely ignores the economics of
lunar mining and development and exclusively focuses on the side issue of
delivering goods out of the lunar well. In fact, that's not even a real
issue. " Strangelv-2 says, "I simply listed it as a possibility. Another
possibility might be an abstraction of a cislunar economy?" Strangelv-2
says, "Another reason I suggested a suggested list, not a directive."
PhilipC says, "That would probably involve orbital hardware. Give too much
information and you tip your hand to potential rivals like Russia and
China" Strangelv-2 says, "And as he's already delivered on what he needs
for this and I'm not proposing paying him more, we can't give a directive
anywapy" Strangelv-2 says, "Without actual hardware we could'nt show that
level of detail, and that would definitely be too much yfor a logo
prcobably" Scottyg says, "I think the sphere/circle needs some features,
especially if its larger. Make it a Moon image?" PhilipC says, "We agreed
that we'd pay him a $250 retainer fee and $250 in addition upon acceptance
for any logo" PhilipC says, "Do you want to add the "moon face"?"
Strangelv-2 says, "And I've not talked to him for months, and usually only
fleetingly" Strangelv-2 doesn't. HE's been there and done that and we
wouldn't approve the final result anyway PhilipC says, "He's about to be
kicked out on the curb and he's literally starving." Scottyg says, "Was
that question for me Philip?" PhilipC says, "It was for James, but anyone
can answer" PhilipC says, "Its everyones logo." Strangelv-2 says, "I
believe most permutations of how to handle the lunar disc have already been
proposed and shot down at least once" PhilipC says, "When we've studied
logos, we found that in contemporary IT media, thin = power. " Strangelv-2
says, "I'm presently more impressed by the described thought process than
th eresult. it seems like there are other directins it could lead" PhilipC
says, "A study of the GLXP logo shows the word "Lunar" having the thickest
font while Google had the thinnest." Strangelv-2 says, "And Google's got
thinner than its original form" PhilipC says, "A review of other logos all
across the board shows the same thing. A thin modern font with a minimalist
style is very contemporary. It's not over the horizon-disconnected from
reality that most space-oriented logos are like." Strangelv-2 says, "That
only applies if the logo is or has words. I'm not sure ours should have any
words that are directly part of the logo" PhilipC says, "When you check out
the logos of every other space society, you either see logos that appeal to
the distant past (like the Planetary Society and the Mars Society) or to
the Distant Future (like Planetary Resources)." Strangelv-2 says, "A
sufficiently catchy image stands out without words. Which is why the result
might not need torepresent any actual physical object" Strangelv-2 says,
"While our actual focus has been rather near term future from the
beginning" PhilipC says, "Paul and Scotty, what are your thoughts? We've
heard a lot from me and James. I'd be interested in your opinions as well."
PhilipC says, "What do you guys think of the logo?" Strangelv-2 looks at a
menu of choices and jumps for joy over an abstract squiggle that everyone
else hates PhilipC says, "It seems the shoe is on the other foot right
now." Strangelv-2 says, "An attempt at self-depreciating humor" Scottyg
says, "I like clean and simple, but still think the disc needs some
features. I like the font." PhilipC says, "The main choices we have as far
as the 18-24 crowd are: minimalist or hipster" PhilipC says, "The Planetary
Society went full-hipster." PhilipC says, "I think we can distinguish
ourselves by going full-minimalist" Strangelv-2 says, "What's a good source
of 18-24 or even 14-30 eyeballs?" PhilipC says, "SEDS" PhilipC says,
"That's something else we need to talk about." Strangelv-2 says, "is it one
we could avail ourselves of in contemplating what to do in response to this
submission?" PhilipC says, "I need to finish up the Program Management
Plan, or at least have permission to talk to SEDS about elements of it, and
then recruit them" Strangelv-2 says, "Without quorum we can't officially do
anything" Strangelv-2 says, "Wel,l at least not much of anything" PhilipC
says, "We'll probably need an email vote. Jessy would appreciate if we
accepted his logo and paid him an additional $250." PhilipC says,
"Considering that he's literally starving. From a management perspective,
we shouldn't allow his personal life to affect our decisions, but if it's
mostly acceptable, with a few tweaks like adding a slightly off-colored
"moon face", then maybe it would work." Strangelv-2 says, "is there a way
to personally send him funds? I must admit I haven't even been logged in to
skype since the last time I was forced to reboot" PhilipC says, "Send him
an e-mail. He's at jessy@jessydaniels.com" PhilipC says, "You can send
western union through email. I think paypal has the same feature"
Strangelv-2 says, "We seem to have completely bored Dana and Paul, unless
they've been diverted and we're even futher from quolrum than we believed
we were" PhilipC says, "But this is capitalism like it or not. TANSTAAFL.
People work to survive. He's doing his best I'm sure. It's we who can't
make up our minds." PhilipC says, "Everything I discussed tonight is the
rationale I gave him. " Strangelv-2 says, "WE have'nt been able to make up
our minds for 14 years. COntinuing to be unable to reach a decision would
be a reasonable guess, alhthough I'd shoot for at least knocking out what
we've been pretending to be logo" PhilipC says, "I think we can ask him to
add the moon face to give the white disc a little feature, and then let's
make a decision and move on." pjbanyai says, "The Mars Society Logo is
essentially a settler having their picture taken on the surface of the
planet. When their name is included they have a small red dot in the [A] of
Mars. The Planetary Society has a modified font for their name and is
currently using for their Google+ logo their name in standard font under a
white moon with the letter P in their George Jetson like Font." Strangelv-2
says, "Something I wanted to ask Paul was how I meght be able to send
buttons to ISDC. They obviously won't include a logo at this point, but Ken
and I had some ideas we discussed over the phone" Strangelv-2 says, "Hello
again" PhilipC says, "Look at the Mars Society logo again, it's an
old/out-dated newsletter font. The Planetary Society is throwback to the
50's/60's."" Strangelv-2 says, "I'm admittedly not sure when I'm going to
be able to leave my house again. The window may have closed when I left the
house this morning to send a political candidate a butnch of buttons"
PhilipC says, "We're focused on the near-term present. Not the past or the
distant future" PhilipC says, "So no NASA worm font for us and no nostalgic
fonts either. That narrows it down to modern/contemporary/minimalist"
pjbanyai says, "I am only going as a general attendee. I just joined as a
new NSS member and listed "The Moon Society" as my affliate membership."
PhilipC says, "Paul, I'm glad someone will be there." Strangelv-2 actually
likes the worm font, but we're not NASA and never were. PhilipC says, "Ok,
we can go back and forth on the logo all night. I can send Jessy an email
to ask him to put the "moon face" on the logo in a slight one-off tone.
Then when he sends me the modification, I can ask for an email vote."
PhilipC says, "We have 15 minutes left." PhilipC says, "The other issues on
the agenda are: focus group for the website, hiring a website designer, and
ISDC/Moon Day" pjbanyai says, "As I mentioned the Lunar Track is being run
By our Liason David Dunlop. I am not sure if he has realized that his
membership expired a few months ago." Strangelv-2 says, "that's an easy
thing to miss" PhilipC says, "Then let's just remind him of that. "
Strangelv-2 says, "And as low as our fee is, I'm ont teh only member in our
history who's found oneself liter'aly unable to pay" dcarson says, "given
how much work planning a con is he could easily overlook it" PhilipC says,
"Paul, do you want to send him an e-mail or should I?" Strangelv-2 says,
"Why would be be looking at a website _designer_?" Scottyg says, "Om the
other hand, we are barely staying even on income vs expenses. I can't
support any further reduction in dues." Strangelv-2 says, "What reduced
dues programs do we still have in place?" PhilipC says, "If we can get
telerobotics off the ground, if anything, I'd like for us to raise our
dues." Strangelv-2 says, "That we could simply bring attention to at ISDC
and/or Moon DAy?" Scottyg says, "Student/senior/disabled vet dues are
$20.00" Strangelv-2 says, "Do we still have a multi-yaer option?" PhilipC
says, "I can see leaving at that level. " Strangelv-2 says, "or has the
last one of those expired?" Strangelv-2 says, "Also something I need to
rememwber: what ar our dates for ballots and MMM? IIRC there's always a
probrlem with that and we're densperately rushing by or similar, and now
its my turn to fumbrle the ball" Strangelv-2 says, "That could be an
announcement for the website: a call for nominees" dcarson says, "and on
Facebook" Strangelv-2 says, "I must admit I don't even know the last time I
looked at our Facebook site. Also, Facebook is increasingly not where the
younger millenials will be found" Strangelv-2 says, "I'm not completely
sure where they congregate at present" PhilipC says, "I usually jump on the
FB site just to approve new people signing up" PhilipC says, "Is there
anything we want Dave Dunlop to discuss at ISDC?" Strangelv-2 says, "Do the
directors want to make a decision about holding or attempting to reschedule
tonight's board meeting?" PhilipC says, "We're obviously going to need to
do that since I'm the only director present" Strangelv-2 says, "I would eed
to know what Dave is doing before I could answer that" pjbanyai says,
"Twitter and LinkedIn are both changing their websites to be more like
Facebook. Twitter, however is the most talked about on TV. " pjbanyai says,
"Al Anzaldua has something on Friday about Low Energy Trajectories in
Cislunar Space and Supply Chains for Exploration and Development."
Strangelv-2 says, "LinkedIn is't aimed at younger people, so mimicking
Facebook might not be a disastrous idea for it." PhilipC says, "It seems
like we talked about everything we anted to talk about in the agenda.
Unless there's something someone wants to add?" Strangelv-2 says, "I'm
unable to come up with anythinc construgctive right now" Strangelv-2 says,
"At last not without being repetitive" Strangelv-2 says, "Sorry abaut that"
Strangelv-2 says, "Move to adjourn" PhilipC says, "Are there any
announcements?" Strangelv-2 looks for a second or discussion PhilipC says,
"Is there a second for adjournment?" Strangelv-2 says, "or something to go
over?" Strangelv-2 looks at Paul dcarson says, "second" PhilipC says, "If
there are no objections to adjournment, let us now be adjourned."
Strangelv-2 looks at Dana Strangelv-2 says, "22:00 CDT" Scottyg says, "Make
it so." PhilipC says, "We are now adjourned. Thank you all for coming. And
remember to talk to Scotty about finishing off the remaining pages." 
-- End log: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 11:00:50 pm ASI Meeting Server time --